Summer Transfer Window 2023

[goodymatt]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

Isn't Charles the Lavia replacement? 

I believe so, even though he’s only played 10 mins at CDM all preseason. 

[goodymatt]

 

[Give it to Ron]

3 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

My big worry is RM’s insistence on possession based, play out from the back football. I just wish he would mix it up a bit and not be so reliant on one system. I’d like to have more faith but it’s just that I don’t think the current players are good enough. 

At Reading we did and also Saturday occasionally there is a big switch to winger darting in behind. We don’t have a centre forward able to win a header so  long ball just gives it away and they counter attack.

[manji]

2 minutes ago, goodymatt said:

Bazunu

Tino (or replacement)

Bednarek

Stephens 

Manning 

Charles/Smallbone

JWP (or replacement)

Alcaraz

Tella (or replacement)

Sulemana/Edozie 

NEW

We should be signing 2x CBs, GK competition and a striker, based on squad to date. Surely any more will be replacing our prized assets: JWP, Lavia and Tino.

Martin has played 3 at the back in the past too so he might want 5 on the books, that 5th one should be Zach Awe, stepping up when needed.

I remember Martin saying by the time the window shuts we might well have a totally rejigged line up of centre backs. He also said JWP would be moving on.

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, manji said:

I remember Martin saying by the time the window shuts we might well have a totally rejigged line up of centre backs. He also said JWP would be moving on.

When did he say that jwp would be moving on? I think he will but I haven't seen Martin saying that. 

[Give it to Ron]

2 minutes ago, goodymatt said:

 

So now submitted a take or leave 30m allegedly we have rejected “just walking away…..” all this walking hope they have a Fitbit tracker

[Smirking_Saint]

 

1 hour ago, saintant said:

Wouldn't be wanting Stephens as a starter to be honest. He dithers on the ball and seems quite slow of thought so not suited to the pass out from the back tactics. Also he is a ball watcher who never appears to be aware of danger in the penalty area so does not cover players in space. On the plus side he's a good leader, not bad in the air and can tackle.

Not really sure why someone would laugh at this, its a pretty reasonable and objective view. Im sure Stephens would be a reasonably decent CB at this level, but out of those still at the club he is 3rd out of four with Lyanco being the worst

He is a purely reactive defender whose main positive, if sifting through fans opinions, is that he i occasionally gets in the face of opposition players… a nice enough attribute to have, but I prefer ability (See Lyanco)

Im not entirely sure what’s happening with ABK, he’s spent time in Germany during pre season.. potentially getting rehab ? Either way I see Bednarek and one other for our defence this year, if that one other is Stephens then so be it, but of the two Id pick Bednarek, because by every metric except ball progression he is the better player

We hace enough experience in the squad anyway, what we need are born leaders, both Bednarek and Stephens have shown this in the past, so thats a good start… if we lose JWP we’ll need an adequate captain to replace him and arguably a further voice in the middle of the park but the closer it is to Sept 1st the less likely I think it is that JWP leaves

[Master Bates]

4 minutes ago, goodymatt said:

 

Saints compromise over Ward-Prowse fee with West Ham, and are willing to do a deal built around ‘sizeable performance-related bonuses’ instead.

[manji]

1 minute ago, Give it to Ron said:

At Reading we did and also Saturday occasionally there is a big switch to winger darting in behind. We don’t have a centre forward able to win a header so  long ball just gives it away and they counter attack.

and in his first interview he said he would occasionally change his system if necessary. It still was a practise match. I don’t think there’s anyway way we won’t get a decent striker in. 

[manji]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

When did he say that jwp would be moving on? I think he will but I haven't seen Martin saying that. 

It was a bit tenuous admittedly but it was when that lad met him and had a selfie with him at the hotel.

[AlexLaw76]

JwP will go...deep down, well know it (except FarehamSaint)

[goodymatt]

 

[Smirking_Saint]

Just now, AlexLaw76 said:

JwP will go...deep down, well know it (except FarehamSaint)

Most of the time I feel like you want this situation so you can have another dig at the club

[goodymatt]

 

[AlexLaw76]

2 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

Most of the time I feel like you want this situation so you can have another dig at the club

That is in your head. Unsure I have had a dig at the club for anything relating to this summer at all.....

Play the post, not the poster

Edited 2 August, 2023 by AlexLaw76

[SNSUN]

57 minutes ago, manji said:

Does Tella even want to go back to Burnley ? From what I’ve seen recently Burnley are going to struggle. We aren’t short of money I would imagine he will be well looked after here. OK it’s difficult to judge but at the Alkmaar game he seemed happy enough.

Well they are Prem, for now, so that allure is there, but let's not forget Burnley have also signed a few AM/wingers this summer already so he may not be guaranteed the first team football he got before his injury last season.

7 minutes ago, goodymatt said:

 

"David Sullivan briefs journalists" is all you need to see here. Prick.

2 minutes ago, Master Bates said:

Saints compromise over Ward-Prowse fee with West Ham, and are willing to do a deal built around ‘sizeable performance-related bonuses’ instead.

I wonder if we want Downes as part of any deal too. I think the player stops that happening though.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

1 minute ago, goodymatt said:

 

Of around? Probably equates to 25m, with bonuses that are highly unlikely to ever happen

[gio1saints]

27 minutes ago, freshen up said:

I quite like the idea of JS being captain, would certainly be more vocal/commanding than JWP imo

So do I. I think he’s perfect. Been with Saints a long time. Willing to do dirty stuff, shout square up etc but also defend and, latterly, reinvented as a ball playing CB ( well kind of but he’s trying). I think he’s a good fit for Captain if JWP moves on. ( which, I think he will unfortunately as I love him and he is a bona fide club legend in my eyes). 

[dsr-burnley]

37 minutes ago, Dman said:

Harwood-Bellis the the one we should be going all out for. I'm very, very surprised that Burnely haven't signed him..?

I'd be delighted with Harwood-Bellis, Stephens, Bednerak, Awe as our 4 CB's next season. 

Burnley have Beyer, Al Dakhill, Ekdal, and now O'Shea, and perhaps have other priorities.  It's already hard to fathom which two of the first three will be first choice, and Harwood-Bellis may not be guaranteed a place.

[coalman]

Just now, dsr-burnley said:

Burnley have Beyer, Al Dakhill, Ekdal, and now O'Shea, and perhaps have other priorities.  It's already hard to fathom which two of the first three will be first choice, and Harwood-Bellis may not be guaranteed a place.

Yup you need another 3 or 4 wingers.

[Smirking_Saint]

2 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Of around? Probably equates to 25m, with bonuses that are highly unlikely to ever happen

I think this is it, Im hoping they are resisting performance related bonuses as, in all likelihood, considering is WHU and a 28 yr old JWP its highly unlikely ro happen

[Smirking_Saint]

2 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

Burnley have Beyer, Al Dakhill, Ekdal, and now O'Shea, and perhaps have other priorities.  It's already hard to fathom which two of the first three will be first choice, and Harwood-Bellis may not be guaranteed a place.

You’re also skint.. so theres that too

[Bad Wolf]

Throw in Downes too and you have a deal IMO

[Fabrice29]

41 minutes ago, macca155 said:

Oh come on that's unnecessary. Stephens is a perfectly good defenders. Obviously not top PL standard but he brings commitment and a bit of steel. Be a good Captain.

Certainly good enough at our current level. With the drop in income this year, he's an asset to keep.

Are you not bored or watching him now? Steel, commitment, good captain but same old in consistent performances. He’ll make some great last ditch tackles, he’ll maraud forward with the ball occasionally, he might even score the odd goal and he’ll shout a lot but he’ll also be heavily out of position a lot and he’ll be piss poor in the air and will divide fans throughout the season. Aren’t you bored of him now? I’m bored of most our squad but certainly the CB’s. I’d absolutely love a clean restart in that area, with some hope rather than the deep rooted knowledge that it’s unreliable. 

[dsr-burnley]

1 hour ago, manji said:

Does Tella even want to go back to Burnley ? From what I’ve seen recently Burnley are going to struggle. We aren’t short of money I would imagine he will be well looked after here. OK it’s difficult to judge but at the Alkmaar game he seemed happy enough.

Who knows what he wants?  He's being very professional about it and saying nothing.  The chances are he would get a big wage rise at Burnley, depending what his current contract is of course, and there's no doubt he enjoyed being at Burnley (but also would no doubt enjoy staying put assuming he's in the first team).  He could be anywhere on the scale of "in the managers office screaming to be sold" to "let it all happen as it may, I'm happy either way" to "Burnley was a stop gap, my place is here and I'm not leaving" - we wouldn't know. 

I don't know the evidence on which Burnley will struggle.  We've made some (on the face of it) good signings and had a couple of good friendly results, win at Benfica and draw at Betis.  It proves nothing but I reckon the omens are positive.

[SaintLondon]

No way we're turning down £30m for JWP - surely? If we manage to get £80m + for Lavia and JWP and the £20m from the sales of DCC and Salisu then we'll have made £100m already and I think with KWP and Tino both destined for moves away then we could quite comfortably recoup £150m in sales. If we recruit well then we could feasibly spend £50m in the championship which would be a huge amount - £18m on Piroe for example and keep £100m in the coffers if all goes to shit and we need to splurge in Jan.

[dsr-burnley]

6 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

You’re also skint.. so theres that too

There's still money in the pot.  The new(ish) owners aren't shy about borrowing.

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, dsr-burnley said:

There's still money in the pot.  The new(ish) owners aren't shy about borrowing.

👀

 

[Winchester Red]

So... Jack Stephens played regularly in a Premier League team that didn't come close to being relegated last year and yet some think he's not good enough to play for a Championship team this year despite being experienced, tenacious, vocal and loyal to SFC for many years having joined from Plymouth as a youth.

I know there's better out there but he ticks a lot of the right boxes. He's what we need other than he's called Jack Stephens.

[Dman]

17 minutes ago, goodymatt said:

 

West Ham surely have to be the worst negotiators out there. 'Walking away' after 2 offers then offering a 'take it or leave it' the next morning.

I think they're massively underestimating JWP's character here. Disappointed he might be if he doesn't move, but I cannot see a world where he downs tools. 

So in response Sullivan - We'll leave it 🙂

[BARCELONASAINT]

26 minutes ago, goodymatt said:

 

were those final stages where Saints said "stop pissing about it's still £40 million you bellends"?

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

7 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

Who knows what he wants?  He's being very professional about it and saying nothing.  The chances are he would get a big wage rise at Burnley, depending what his current contract is of course, and there's no doubt he enjoyed being at Burnley (but also would no doubt enjoy staying put assuming he's in the first team).  He could be anywhere on the scale of "in the managers office screaming to be sold" to "let it all happen as it may, I'm happy either way" to "Burnley was a stop gap, my place is here and I'm not leaving" - we wouldn't know. 

I don't know the evidence on which Burnley will struggle.  We've made some (on the face of it) good signings and had a couple of good friendly results, win at Benfica and draw at Betis.  It proves nothing but I reckon the omens are positive.

You sound a bit like the Leicester fan who was on here a while back gloating about how positive things were for them 🙂

 

[Patches O Houlihan]

I read somewhere that for the last few years Jack Stephens was the team 'judge' responsible for dishing out the fines, and forfeits for misbehaviour by team mates. His absence may have been part of the reason for the degeneration of standards in the dressing room last season.

If he had established that position in the club, then he would seem to have some leadership credentials and would also need to be well liked by senior players. 

We're now at a stage where there are really few players on the books who have been established at Saints for multiple seasons;

Stephens

Bednarek

Stu Armstrong (probably not a leader)

Che (probably off)

Alex McCarthy (unlikely)

KWP (unlikely)

Moussa (😁)

A few weeks back I suggested Perraud as a potential leader/captain. But since Ryan Manning arrived it looks less likely that he'd be first choice (or may be on his way out?)

A leader on the pitch is required, but ideally the Captain would be an automatic pick. JS is a bit too inconsistent for that though I think...

 

Edited 2 August, 2023 by Patches O Houlihan

[hypochondriac]

8 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

There's still money in the pot.  The new(ish) owners aren't shy about borrowing.

Pay what Tella is worth then.

[Dman]

17 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

Burnley have Beyer, Al Dakhill, Ekdal, and now O'Shea, and perhaps have other priorities.  It's already hard to fathom which two of the first three will be first choice, and Harwood-Bellis may not be guaranteed a place.

Fair - hadn't realised that you'd signed a couple more CB's.. What are your thoughts of Harwood-Bellis? Was a main stay in your side last season, wasn't he?

[Smirking_Saint]

3 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

Who knows what he wants?  He's being very professional about it and saying nothing.  The chances are he would get a big wage rise at Burnley, depending what his current contract is of course, and there's no doubt he enjoyed being at Burnley (but also would no doubt enjoy staying put assuming he's in the first team).  He could be anywhere on the scale of "in the managers office screaming to be sold" to "let it all happen as it may, I'm happy either way" to "Burnley was a stop gap, my place is here and I'm not leaving" - we wouldn't know. 

I don't know the evidence on which Burnley will struggle.  We've made some (on the face of it) good signings and had a couple of good friendly results, win at Benfica and draw at Betis.  It proves nothing but I reckon the omens are positive.

Without going into huge details, I get to hear plenty from the training ground for one reason or another, I have been privileged to have been invited to a couple of games in the board room both home and away in the past

The general whispers around Tella, and most of the squad are that they’re relaxed. Comfortable with the clubs vision and under RM.. there were a few challenging characters at the end of last season, but most are gone or have relaxed. Tella himself is happy here, but I think potentially happy if he moves, there is no perceived ‘push’ to move to Burnley at all

As for Burnley, I don’t really understand why you think he’d get a ‘larger wage’ with you, comparatively speaking we are a bigger club with deeper pockets, and likely looking to tie up new signings into relegation clauses… Id suggest realistically you are at risk of relegation, but in terms of the three promoted clubs you probably are that level above but still

Now of course my next statement will have a level of bias, but I don’t think its too far away from reality. If we look at the potential placement of both Burnley and Southampton in 5 years its hard to argue the latter club is likely more upwardly mobile, in terms of size and budgets

All of this is before we even talk about having to live in fucking burnley

[beatlesaint]

30 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said:

So now submitted a take or leave 30m allegedly we have rejected “just walking away…..” all this walking hope they have a Fitbit tracker

If they start walking away in a north westerly direction at the same pace as Liverpool walking away from the Lavia deal in a south easterly direction where will they meet up to share their hard luck stories? 😝

[Smirking_Saint]

5 minutes ago, Winchester Red said:

So... Jack Stephens played regularly in a Premier League team that didn't come close to being relegated last year and yet some think he's not good enough to play for a Championship team this year despite being experienced, tenacious, vocal and loyal to SFC for many years having joined from Plymouth as a youth.

I know there's better out there but he ticks a lot of the right boxes. He's what we need other than he's called Jack Stephens.

Ive said what Ive said, regardless of commitment he is our 3rd best CB on our books. As per playing regularly he was replaced by a Bournemouth side that struggled defensively before January and we’ve been trying to offload him for about 18-24 months

I applaud his commitment and his vocality, but I want to see ability first

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

37 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said:

So now submitted a take or leave 30m allegedly we have rejected “just walking away…..” all this walking hope they have a Fitbit tracker

Perhaps they could do a sponsored walk with Liverpool. 

[coalman]

Just now, Golac's Cunning Stunts said:

Perhaps they could do a sponsored walk with Liverpool. 

No sense either of them walking without company. When you're part of this kind of hard luck story a comforting ear is always helpful.

[John B]

27 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said:

So now submitted a take or leave 30m allegedly we have rejected “just walking away…..” all this walking hope they have a Fitbit tracker

How much do you think JWP is really worth ?

 

If he was younger he would probably worth more but I feel £30m is currently a reasonable offer.

 

We have never bought a £30m player but if we did I am not sure whether it would be be a good idea if we bought someone like him.

 

It is a longtime since we bought anybody in the PL with the WOW factor we have just gone for young players some of whom have become reasonable PL players like KWP but most have failed to become top players.

 

[Sussex_saint]

Considering we have/are in the process of selling players, maybe SR see no need to accept an offer for JWP unless it is ridiculously good due to the incoming sales of lavia etc. If walker peters goes for 20mil along with salisu going for 15mil (or whatever it was) and if lavia goes for close to 50, it may be in our interest to keep him.  several others like DCC and Lyanco should raise some money too. Personally, I would keep him regardless. His workrate and talent will be huge in this league. He really fits into the RM playing style, and is great at pinging balls forward like he showed with a ridiculous long ball across half the pitch against alkamaar.

[Saint86]

43 minutes ago, manji said:

It was a bit tenuous admittedly but it was when that lad met him and had a selfie with him at the hotel.

I thought it was very strange at the AZ Alkmar when he came off. Usually friendly subs are done quickly. But JWP came off by himself with time allowed for the fans to applaud him off. Equally though, JWP didn't acknowledge anything special about it such as clapping the fans back etc.

[John B]

37 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

Throw in Downes too and you have a deal IMO

I agree but not sure Downes wants to come here

[Fabrice29]

26 minutes ago, Winchester Red said:

So... Jack Stephens played regularly in a Premier League team that didn't come close to being relegated last year and yet some think he's not good enough to play for a Championship team this year despite being experienced, tenacious, vocal and loyal to SFC for many years having joined from Plymouth as a youth.

I know there's better out there but he ticks a lot of the right boxes. He's what we need other than he's called Jack Stephens.

As a character he seems great (aside from being best mates with Charlie Austin and a few other questionable characters) but let’s not rewrite history here. He’s been consistently not good enough for us. He played for Bournemouth last year in a very defensively set up side that limited his exposure. That done him favours and lends itself to his qualities but we won’t do that and he’ll be exposed again. Doesn’t matter the level, he’ll be exposed and doesn’t have the qualities to deal with that consistently. 

Also I find the ‘this level’ argument weird as well. We don’t want to be here long do we? If we get promoted with him as captain it’s going to be a tough call to drop him then. We need to reset, reset now and move on. We won’t, I understand that and I understand the manager seemingly likes him but it would be much more exciting if we had 4 new CB’s this year who we didn’t know we will want to replace soon. 

[Winchester Red]

7 minutes ago, Sussex_saint said:

Considering we have/are in the process of selling players, maybe SR see no need to accept an offer for JWP unless it is ridiculously good due to the incoming sales of lavia etc. If walker peters goes for 20mil along with salisu going for 15mil (or whatever it was) and if lavia goes for close to 50, it may be in our interest to keep him.  several others like DCC and Lyanco should raise some money too. Personally, I would keep him regardless. His workrate and talent will be huge in this league. He really fits into the RM playing style, and is great at pinging balls forward like he showed with a ridiculous long ball across half the pitch against alkamaar.

I agree with this.  If JWP is willing to stay without downing tools then keep him, and he's way to professional to behave like that.

Also, West Ham need to bear in mind that he'll likely still be playing in 5-6 years time as he takes looking after himself very seriously, which is probably a big factor in why he rarely gets injured.  His dead ball skills aren't going to be worse when he's 35 either.

Funny how they held out forever for top dollar for Rice, but think we should cut our Valuation for JWP. 

I'm surprised he's so happy to go there when they don't value him that highly.

[JRM]

40 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Are you not bored or watching him now? Steel, commitment, good captain but same old in consistent performances. He’ll make some great last ditch tackles, he’ll maraud forward with the ball occasionally, he might even score the odd goal and he’ll shout a lot but he’ll also be heavily out of position a lot and he’ll be piss poor in the air and will divide fans throughout the season. Aren’t you bored of him now? I’m bored of most our squad but certainly the CB’s. I’d absolutely love a clean restart in that area, with some hope rather than the deep rooted knowledge that it’s unreliable. 

We've had plenty of jokers come and go in that position last few years giving you lots of new CBs to enjoy, I'm more than happy with Stephens in there for now. 

[Smirking_Saint]

Just now, Winchester Red said:

I agree with this.  If JWP is willing to stay without downing tools then keep him, and he's way to professional to behave like that.

Also, West Ham need to bear in mind that he'll likely still be playing in 5-6 years time as he takes looking after himself very seriously, which is probably a big factor in why he rarely gets injured.  His dead ball skills aren't going to be worse when he's 35 either.

Funny how they held out forever for top dollar for Rice, but think we should cut our Valuation for JWP. 

I'm surprised he's so happy to go there when they don't value him that highly.

I agree too, and the problem is for WHU is tgat, realistically ? Im not convinced JWP is worth 40m, especially not when you consider what 40m can get you elsewhere on the market and certainly from Europe… however, he is worth that to us

I do think keeping JWP for this year will almost definitely galvanise this squad, and it looks like thats been taken into consideration

We’ve probably, after Orsic, Diallo, DCC and Salisu already brought in 30m + wages… if we sell Lavia thats bordering 70/80m + wages… so it means our necessity to sell (that wasn’t hugely high before due to SRs finances) is even less

I love the stance we’re taking currently, it’s refreshing… you want our best players ? You best be prepared to pay for them

[Give it to Ron]

18 minutes ago, John B said:

How much do you think JWP is really worth ?

 

If he was younger he would probably worth more but I feel £30m is currently a reasonable offer.

 

We have never bought a £30m player but if we did I am not sure whether it would be be a good idea if we bought someone like him.

 

It is a longtime since we bought anybody in the PL with the WOW factor we have just gone for young players some of whom have become reasonable PL players like KWP but most have failed to become top players.

 

Doesn’t matter what I think but 30-35m is about right in the market.

What is he worth to fans and club? Immeasurable I guess as kids love him and talisman.

There are times he does my head in and lack of pace loses a pass he should win. Has happened on both pre season games I have seen.

Its last season we will get any real money for him and we don’t have players to play Martins way.

[Saint_Ash]

 

 

Edited 2 August, 2023 by Saint_Ash