Summer Transfer Window 2023

[Maggie May]

  On 28/07/2023 at 20:21, Wade Garrett said:

Brilliant, another total fucking gamble.

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Would love to see the Saintsforever forum back in 2005/06 when we signed the likes of Darren Potter and Richard Chaplow…

[Fitzhugh Fella]

  On 28/07/2023 at 21:09, SaintsFan86 said:

So far we have Stephens, Manning and JWP and I'd argue Stuey is a leader too.

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Really? Stuart Armstrong a leader? Introverts rarely lead. 

[egg]

  On 28/07/2023 at 21:09, SaintsFan86 said:

So far we have Stephens, Manning and JWP and I'd argue Stuey is a leader too.

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Stephens will be a real help this season, ditto Manning - I really like him. JWP will be off though and I suspect S Armstrong will be in/out of the team. That leaves no leaders in midfield - we need an experienced head in the middle of the pitch. 

[hypochondriac]

  On 28/07/2023 at 21:14, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Really? Stuart Armstrong a leader? Introverts rarely lead. 

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I'd also argue that jwp isn't much of a leader given some of the pathetic displays we put on when he was captain. Would a real leader have allowed that? Would Roy Keane have let it happen on his watch? Stephens may be but it remains to be seen if he will start every week. 

[hypochondriac]

  On 28/07/2023 at 21:18, egg said:

Stephens will be a real help this season, ditto Manning - I really like him. JWP will be off though and I suspect S Armstrong will be in/out of the team. That leaves no leaders in midfield - we need an experienced head in the middle of the pitch. 

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And up top. I really hope we don't go for an expensive gamble up top from a foreign league where temperemant could be suspect. A talismanic figure would be superb. 

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

  On 28/07/2023 at 21:11, hypochondriac said:

Good someone else gets it. We got burnt last summer with loads predicting 9 or 10 for the window because we got in a load of promising kids. Like you say, it's leaders and personalities on the pitch in the mould of Fonte, Hammond, Lambert, Lallana even someone like Jaidi. 

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Now you mention those names, makes me nostalgic - bloody hell what a team we ended up building. I fear the current lot are nowhere near that standard. Hopefully Wilcox and the rest realise what is blindingly obvious and get some character in the team soon

[hypochondriac]

  On 28/07/2023 at 21:26, Golac's Cunning Stunts said:

Now you mention those names, makes me nostalgic - bloody hell what a team we ended up building. I fear the current lot are nowhere near that standard. Hopefully Wilcox and the rest realise what is blindingly obvious and get some character in the team soon

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We had a ridiculous league one team and pretty much the same team when we went up. Full of players who were performers but also real characters. The interview Lambert did earlier this year confirmed what I had always thought about how the team would metaphorically die for each other. 

[Doctoroncall]

  On 28/07/2023 at 19:55, hypochondriac said:

Which is why I find the attitude of just wanting talent so odd. It's incredibly obvious that we need a leader at the back and a Grimes type figure in the middle. It's not that the likes of Edwards won't be a great signing, I just think we would live to regret it if we got someone like that and this Arsenal youngster abd left it at that. 

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That should be seen as a talent in itself as demonstrated last season by the lack of it. I’d hope that Wilcox and Martin realise that. 

[hypochondriac]

  On 29/07/2023 at 04:01, Doctoroncall said:

That should be seen as a talent in itself as demonstrated last season by the lack of it. I’d hope that Wilcox and Martin realise that. 

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True, we were just looking for too much of one thing last year without looking for the character and nous that is just as important. 

[Weston Super Saint]

  On 28/07/2023 at 19:38, Lighthouse said:

Or ‘Cease’.

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Him or 'Lead' and we could get what we really need....

[Chewy]

  On 29/07/2023 at 06:25, Weston Super Saint said:

Him or 'Lead' and we could get what we really need....

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We’ll probably get dinos 

[Chewy]

  On 28/07/2023 at 20:37, SaintsFan86 said:

Easier said than done, until we shift players we won't be bringing any in. We are about to get very busy.

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Edit!

Sorry!!

! Meant to quote the comment about how Stephens, Manning, JWP and Stu were leaders and don’t know how to fix it???
 

 

 

I’m actually pretty optimistic about how things will turn out but this is far too positive a spin on things. Neither JWP nor Stu are leaders. Their age and experience gives them a touch of gravitas compared to the rest of the squad but they’re not leaders in any way.

I’ve not even seen Manning so can’t comment but I wasn’t aware this was a quality of his?

Stephens is more of a leader-type but quite frankly shouldn’t be playing; he’s not good enough 

I’m sure we’ll get improvements in once the outgoings start happening and am comfortable it’ll happen in time, but we desperately need a CF, a CB and a leader. And we really could do with a GK and most likely 1-2 CMs. Saying we don’t need a leader because we have one in the above list is as dangerous as saying we don’t need a CF because we have Mara, Adams and ArmA. They’re not good enough and Id be worried if the club don’t understand this

Edited 29 July, 2023 by Chewy
I’m an incompetent fool

[saint lard]

  On 28/07/2023 at 16:52, AlexLaw76 said:

any idea who...or at least what standard (squad, or immediate starters)?

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Immediate starters. 👍

[Dusic]

  On 29/07/2023 at 06:10, hypochondriac said:

True, we were just looking for too much of one thing last year without looking for the character and nous that is just as important. 

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Martin said in one of his first interviews that it would be character first and was keen to point out that Manning is a good, aggressive (NJ shudder) character, whilst Charles comes across as very focused and he wouldnt have got PL mins for City if he was a wally, and nor been fast-tracked into a team like NI which is based on character as much as ability.

Reality is though we need to be selling players and Martin has said all along that some who play the first game or two won't be here in Sept. Its entirely possible we start with KWP, Tino, JWP, Tella and Adams next week (could add Alcaraz to that list) and then none are here in September. Its not ideal but it is what it is and we are probably more likely to win with KWP and/or Tino starting than James Bree.

End of the window will surely be mental and its hard to really make a judgement until September because nobody knows who will still be here until then.

[SambaMaverick]

  On 29/07/2023 at 08:56, Dusic said:

Martin said in one of his first interviews that it would be character first and was keen to point out that Manning is a good, aggressive (NJ shudder) character, whilst Charles comes across as very focused and he wouldnt have got PL mins for City if he was a wally, and nor been fast-tracked into a team like NI which is based on character as much as ability.

Reality is though we need to be selling players and Martin has said all along that some who play the first game or two won't be here in Sept. Its entirely possible we start with KWP, Tino, JWP, Tella and Adams next week (could add Alcaraz to that list) and then none are here in September. Its not ideal but it is what it is and we are probably more likely to win with KWP and/or Tino starting than James Bree.

End of the window will surely be mental and its hard to really make a judgement until September because nobody knows who will still be here until then.

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I'm not saying he won't come good but his international involvement isn't indicative of anything. Northern Ireland are a noddy team.

[Badger]

  On 28/07/2023 at 21:24, hypochondriac said:

And up top. I really hope we don't go for an expensive gamble up top from a foreign league where temperemant could be suspect. A talismanic figure would be superb. 

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After the signings of Carrillo and Tall Paul, I don't think it's just temperament we need to worry about. 

[Miltonaggro]

  On 28/07/2023 at 19:45, Turkish said:

Again Dean Hammond is a classic example. Not the best player in the world but an experienced leader with a great mentality. Exactly like Fonte was, neither of them were the best players in their positions at the time they were here but vital to our success for what else they brought to the side 

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Very underrated Hammond, great strength and engine, plus a real team player setting by example. Went on to have a decent career after Saints too with Brighton, Leicester and Sheff U.
 

When Saints were putting together that great squad to gain promotion from league 1 and the championship we seemed to have about five hits to every one miss, that ratio has been reversed in the last five or six seasons. Hope we can get back to that now, no need to overthink, round pegs in round holes. Manning appears to be exactly that type of signing, more of this! 

Edited 29 July, 2023 by Miltonaggro

[leeham_69]

  On 29/07/2023 at 10:18, Miltonaggro said:

Very underrated Hammond, great strength and engine, plus a real team player setting by example. Went on to have a decent career after Saints too with Brighton, Leicester and Sheff U.
 

When Saints were putting together that great squad to gain promotion from league 1 and the championship we seemed to have about five hits to every one miss, that ratio has been reversed in the last five or six seasons. Hope we can get back to that now, no need to overthink, round pegs in round holes. Manning appears to be exactly that type of signing, more of this! 

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I will never forget the goal he scored first game of the season in the Championship. You just knew it was going to be a good year the way we played that day.

[SaintsFan86]

  On 29/07/2023 at 10:35, leeham_69 said:

I will never forget the goal he scored first game of the season in the Championship. You just knew it was going to be a good year the way we played that day.

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I can still see it now, 30 yard screamer... one of thr best Seasons supporting Saints.

Abs then that win at Cov last game, that was Euphoric.

[Guest]

  On 29/07/2023 at 10:51, SaintsFan86 said:

I can still see it now, 30 yard screamer... one of thr best Seasons supporting Saints.

Abs then that win at Cov last game, that was Euphoric.

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That was a shaken opening twenty minutes or so and then as soon as Fonte scored that diving header making it 2-0 knew that we’d done it! 💪🏻

Nigel Adkins celebration of those opening two goals as well!

[Bad Wolf]

  On 29/07/2023 at 10:51, SaintsFan86 said:

I can still see it now, 30 yard screamer... one of thr best Seasons supporting Saints.

Abs then that win at Cov last game, that was Euphoric.

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To paraphrase another poster - As soon as that shot went in, you could just tell we were going to at least challenge for promotion. I dunno why or how I managed to assume that from one goal but it was just a feeling I had.

[Chez]

  On 28/07/2023 at 15:33, manji said:

We will sign for those places. As I have said Martin said we have 3 or 4 players set up to join. He definitely said that. It was when he was complaining the transfer window should finish at the start of the season.

e 😇

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In that specific interview complaining about the window remaining open, I think he said "couldn't give a number".

There was another interview where he said "there were a few keen to join us and willing to wait."

 

 

[davefizzy14]

  On 29/07/2023 at 11:24, Chez said:

In that specific interview complaining about the window remaining open, I think he said "couldn't give a number".

There was another interview where he said "there were a few keen to join us and willing to wait."

 

 

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Spot on. That's what RM alluded to. 

[SaintsFan86]

Yes, we have ready to join, just having such a massive squad isn't ideal. We are about to go boom on the transfer marker. I imagine alot of teams are.

[Forester]

  On 29/07/2023 at 08:56, Dusic said:

Martin said in one of his first interviews that it would be character first and was keen to point out that Manning is a good, aggressive (NJ shudder) character, whilst Charles comes across as very focused and he wouldnt have got PL mins for City if he was a wally, and nor been fast-tracked into a team like NI which is based on character as much as ability.

Reality is though we need to be selling players and Martin has said all along that some who play the first game or two won't be here in Sept. Its entirely possible we start with KWP, Tino, JWP, Tella and Adams next week (could add Alcaraz to that list) and then none are here in September. Its not ideal but it is what it is and we are probably more likely to win with KWP and/or Tino starting than James Bree.

End of the window will surely be mental and its hard to really make a judgement until September because nobody knows who will still be here until then.

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I think this last paragraph is key.  If the window shut now, and nobody left or joined from today, I would be perfectly happy with the current squad for championship.  We have cover in all positions as we speak, have proven goal scorers IN THE CHAMPIONSHIP, and would in my opinion be well placed to launch a promotion bid.  I also think several of our younger players will be much improved a year on.

However we all know there will be plenty of movement and unlike recent seasons for me it is less about who we buy and more about who we retain.  The danger of leaving it too late is that we may run out of time to land the replacement when someone moves.

[SuperSAINT]

  On 29/07/2023 at 08:56, Dusic said:

Martin said in one of his first interviews that it would be character first and was keen to point out that Manning is a good, aggressive (NJ shudder) character, whilst Charles comes across as very focused and he wouldnt have got PL mins for City if he was a wally, and nor been fast-tracked into a team like NI which is based on character as much as ability.

Reality is though we need to be selling players and Martin has said all along that some who play the first game or two won't be here in Sept. Its entirely possible we start with KWP, Tino, JWP, Tella and Adams next week (could add Alcaraz to that list) and then none are here in September. Its not ideal but it is what it is and we are probably more likely to win with KWP and/or Tino starting than James Bree.

End of the window will surely be mental and its hard to really make a judgement until September because nobody knows who will still be here until then.

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Excellent post, @Dusic & sums up where we are exactly.  Ideally, we'd have spread it out all across the window so we had more stability, but as you pointed out, RM said that we'd be starting the season with players who would leave.  Might be a bit of a feeding frenzy towards the end of the window, but don't see us panicking.

[OldNick]

  On 28/07/2023 at 16:26, Lighthouse said:

We didn’t control the midfield because the options around JWP and Lavia were crap, not because those two were too young, weak and naive. We looked far worse when Lavia wasn’t available. If you offered me Charles and Lavia as a midfield pairing this season, I’d snap your hand off. We got promoted last time with Cork, Hammond and Morgan in CM, none of them were big, gritty bruisers, just good players.

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Weren't Jwp and Lavia there to do the defensive midfield job? So how many defensive midfielders should we have to help the defence?

It is all hypothetical as neither will be here IMO. Still need some grit in the centre to break up attacks. You obviously see a different midfield to me, a midfield that couldnt hold any team we played and constantly overrun. 

Anyway hopefully RMsees the issue and can address it, we all will be happy with that.

[Barsiem]

  On 28/07/2023 at 21:14, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Really? Stuart Armstrong a leader? Introverts rarely lead. 

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Absolute tosh.  Many leaders are introverts.  Jeff Bezos - the world's richest man and owner of Amazon for example.  Barack Obama is another.  

That said, I don't think Armstrong is that sort of character anyway.  He's a lead by example person, like JWP

[Lighthouse]

  On 29/07/2023 at 12:44, OldNick said:

Weren't Jwp and Lavia there to do the defensive midfield job? So how many defensive midfielders should we have to help the defence?

It is all hypothetical as neither will be here IMO. Still need some grit in the centre to break up attacks. You obviously see a different midfield to me, a midfield that couldnt hold any team we played and constantly overrun. 

Anyway hopefully RMsees the issue and can address it, we all will be happy with that.

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As a CM pairing JWP and Lavia were absolutely fine. Everything has a knock on effect, Forster looked much better playing behind Fonte and Toby, they looked better playing behind Morgan and Wanyama, who in turn looked better with Tadic, Mané, Davis and Pellè to play in in front of them.

I’ve watched young inexperienced Lavia and gritty Jermaine Wright, I know which one I’d rather have next season.

[Chez]

Piroe, Grimes and Holgate could easily be the guys happy to bide their time

[LegalEagle]

  On 28/07/2023 at 21:14, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Really? Stuart Armstrong a leader? Introverts rarely lead. 

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You forget Mike Brearley. One of England’s greatest cricket captains. Total introvert. Courage and integrity. That’s what makes great leaders.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

  On 29/07/2023 at 14:18, LegalEagle said:

You forget Mike Brearley. One of England’s greatest cricket captains. Total introvert. Courage and integrity. That’s what makes great leaders.

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MB was a one off as his future career indicates. We have lacked a leader for years now. I’m talking Jimmy Case style. JWP doesn’t fit into that category unfortunately and Stuart Armstrong is as far from being a leader as anyone can imagine. He’s far too quiet, he blows hot and cold and is far from robust. Nice guy I’m sure and has intelligence and guile but Jimmy Case he ain’t. 

[Toadhall Saint]

  On 29/07/2023 at 15:02, Fitzhugh Fella said:

MB was a one off as his future career indicates. We have lacked a leader for years now. I’m talking Jimmy Case style. JWP doesn’t fit into that category unfortunately and Stuart Armstrong is as far from being a leader as anyone can imagine. He’s far too quiet, he blows hot and cold and is far from robust. Nice guy I’m sure and has intelligence and guile but Jimmy Case he ain’t. 

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Interested to know from any current prem team who you would have as our skipper? JC was of an era that has gone and probably wouldn’t last to long on the pitch knowadays 

[StrangelyBrown]

  On 28/07/2023 at 21:14, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Introverts rarely lead. 

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I take it you mean in a football context?

[DT]

Terrible, terrible defending. So loose at the back again. Will keep happening unless we sign decent experience and leadership at the back, with no nonsense physical presence. E dozier looks very frust re inglese lightweight. Apart from that we’ve looked okay. But have gifted them the game thus far, by lax marking. Dear me. 

[sambosa75]

  On 29/07/2023 at 13:30, Barsiem said:

Absolute tosh.  Many leaders are introverts.  Jeff Bezos - the world's richest man and owner of Amazon for example.  Barack Obama is another.  

That said, I don't think Armstrong is that sort of character anyway.  He's a lead by example person, like JWP

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Are you suggesting we stick Bezos and Obama in midfield for the forthcoming season?

[coalman]

  On 29/07/2023 at 15:51, sambosa75 said:

Are you suggesting we stick Bezos and Obama in midfield for the forthcoming season?

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Bezos is clearly a fullback and Obama's legs have gone.

[Chez]

  On 29/07/2023 at 15:02, Fitzhugh Fella said:

MB was a one off as his future career indicates. We have lacked a leader for years now. I’m talking Jimmy Case style. JWP doesn’t fit into that category unfortunately and Stuart Armstrong is as far from being a leader as anyone can imagine. He’s far too quiet, he blows hot and cold and is far from robust. Nice guy I’m sure and has intelligence and guile but Jimmy Case he ain’t. 

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Jimmy Case style? I watched quite a lot of Jimmy Case at Saints and my recollection of him was of a quiet guy that just went about his business on the pitch and was not someone that beat his chest and instructed players what they should be doing. I don't remember ever seeing him shouting at players at all on the pitch.

[The Kraken]

  On 29/07/2023 at 16:44, Chez said:

Jimmy Case style? I watched quite a lot of Jimmy Case at Saints and my recollection of him was of a quiet guy that just went about his business on the pitch and was not someone that beat his chest and instructed players what they should be doing. I don't remember ever seeing him shouting at players at all on the pitch.

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Jim maybe wasn’t a shouter but he was absolutely a protector. I read his book recently and he talks about it as his role here, plus players like shearer, rod Wallace and MLT have mentioned it too, they always knew that he had their backs and would stand up for them.

[CanadaSaint]

We won't know how good this side is capable of being in the Championship until we have someone consistently threatening at the sharp end. Bringing in a quality striker would be transformational. Piroe keeps getting mentioned and he could well do the job, but I hope we didn't shit in our own nest by haggling with Swansea for so long over Martin. That false economy could work against us, so I really hope we have a good fallback option. That may well be the difference between Top 3 and mid table.

[Chez]

  On 29/07/2023 at 17:15, The Kraken said:

Jim maybe wasn’t a shouter but he was absolutely a protector. I read his book recently and he talks about it as his role here, plus players like shearer, rod Wallace and MLT have mentioned it too, they always knew that he had their backs and would stand up for them.

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Absolutely. He, and Barry Horne were like silent assassins more than happy to carve an opponent in two if they'd taken liberties with a fellow player. 

Case was experienced, and seemed a fitting skipper, but not sure it matters. The manager does the job of the skipper these days, constantly directing traffic.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

  On 29/07/2023 at 16:44, Chez said:

Jimmy Case style? I watched quite a lot of Jimmy Case at Saints and my recollection of him was of a quiet guy that just went about his business on the pitch and was not someone that beat his chest and instructed players what they should be doing. I don't remember ever seeing him shouting at players at all on the pitch.

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I am going what all the players what played with him have said. All the youngsters like Wallace Le Tiss Shearer etc have all said how he nurtured them and how they looked up to him. You don’t have to wave your hands around, he had an aura. He’d been there done that and was wily. He was tough, experienced and could play.  He could tackle scrap and mix it. At 20 grand he was LM’s best signing. If we signed him tomorrow I would fancy our chances of going up. As it is mid table beckons as things stand. 

[Give it to Ron]

My thoughts today, every player looks confident on ball unlike last year. 
We have a pattern of play and I like that sometimes we go long and wide to wingers springing trap. I also like we leave 1 up when defending a corner!

Our play needs movement which today had too much static ahead of man with ball. Having said that Armstrong made so many runs not spotted by Stephens etc.

Manning is a very good player. Charly had good game and looked dangerous. Edozie looked good but lost end product he had at Reading.

Sam AA looks a real talent.

Crowd won’t put up with possession football if like today no end product or looking like scoring like last 40 mins.

We need a better striker for when the striker coming short doesn’t work like Armstrong today

[Turkish]

  On 29/07/2023 at 17:30, CanadaSaint said:

We won't know how good this side is capable of being in the Championship until we have someone consistently threatening at the sharp end. Bringing in a quality striker would be transformational. Piroe keeps getting mentioned and he could well do the job, but I hope we didn't shit in our own nest by haggling with Swansea for so long over Martin. That false economy could work against us, so I really hope we have a good fallback option. That may well be the difference between Top 3 and mid table.

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The link to this fella from Sunderland seems very strong but he isn’t going to be fullly fit until November at the earliest  a quarter of the season gone by then. Seems a gamble 

[hypochondriac]

  On 29/07/2023 at 18:49, Turkish said:

The link to this fella from Sunderland seems very strong but he isn’t going to be fullly fit until November at the earliest  a quarter of the season gone by then. Seems a gamble 

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Are we sure we wouldn't sign him in addition to another striker? It's a long season and if tall paul and Adams leave then currently it's Armstrong and Mara which is a big risk. 

[Turkish]

  On 29/07/2023 at 18:53, hypochondriac said:

Are we sure we wouldn't sign him in addition to another striker? It's a long season and if tall paul and Adams leave then currently it's Armstrong and Mara which is a big risk. 

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If that’s the case then fine and makes sense 

[hypochondriac]

  On 29/07/2023 at 18:56, Turkish said:

If that’s the case then fine and makes sense 

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Surely the club know that we need someone who can hit the ground running as soon as possible. I still think we must have a chance with Piroe but seems like there would be heavy competition so I don't want to think about it too hard in case I'm left disappointed. 

[Turkish]

  On 29/07/2023 at 19:00, hypochondriac said:

Surely the club know that we need someone who can hit the ground running as soon as possible. I still think we must have a chance with Piroe but seems like there would be heavy competition so I don't want to think about it too hard in case I'm left disappointed. 

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Youd think so wouldn’t you but We’ve said this ever summer for years

[hypochondriac]

  On 29/07/2023 at 19:04, Turkish said:

Youd think so wouldn’t you but We’ve said this ever summer for years

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If Swansea really want 20 million, is there any reason we couldn't just offer that once we've sold a couple? I'd prefer that over the Charles signing if it's a choice between the two. 

[Turkish]

  On 29/07/2023 at 19:10, hypochondriac said:

If Swansea really want 20 million, is there any reason we couldn't just offer that once we've sold a couple? I'd prefer that over the Charles signing if it's a choice between the two. 

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Well indeed people keep saying we don’t need to sell and if we’re getting £75-£80m then spending quarter of that on a proven goalscorer seems money we’ll spent