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Summer Transfer Window 2023

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Fabrice29

Fabrice29

Posted
Posted
  On 28/06/2023 at 09:33, S-Clarke said:

Coady is a frustrating one, he is everything this squad has been lacking. Not just defensive ability, but leadership - we're still a bunch of kids, nothing has changed in that respect, so getting someone like Coady would make a huge difference to us. Similar to the impact Dawson had at West Ham when he went there if you remember.

I'm nervous that the only links to incomings are once again, youth team players who haven't played first team football yet. It was the wrong approach last year and that hasn't changed this year.

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The desire for people to spend their money watching players past their best knows no bounds. 

Much rather watch young and potential stars play every week than players I know have a ceiling. Neither strategy is guaranteed results.

  • Like 3
Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 28/06/2023 at 09:58, Fabrice29 said:

The desire for people to spend their money watching players past their best knows no bounds. 

Much rather watch young and potential stars play every week than players I know have a ceiling. Neither strategy is guaranteed results.

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Yeah that's gone brilliantly hasn't it. You need a blend, if you want to watch a team full of potential stars watch U21s football

Edited by Turkish
  • Like 8
Badger

Badger

Posted
Posted
  On 28/06/2023 at 09:58, Turkish said:

Maddison is a different level to JWP though. 

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Just to think, Maddison chose Leicester over us. So we simply moved on, and signed Elyonoussi. 

That's some leap. Can't believe there wasn't something better between the two of them.

  • Haha 2
S-Clarke

S-Clarke

Posted
Posted
  On 28/06/2023 at 09:58, Fabrice29 said:

The desire for people to spend their money watching players past their best knows no bounds. 

Much rather watch young and potential stars play every week than players I know have a ceiling. Neither strategy is guaranteed results.

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What are you on about? No one is saying 'stop signing young players', you need a mix. We can't just focus on youth players. 

I hope this summer we don't!

  • Like 4
Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted
  On 28/06/2023 at 09:59, Turkish said:

Yeah that's gone brilliantly hasn't it. You need a blend

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We had a blend. As you say, that went brilliantly. 

Baz (21)
KWP (26) Bednarek (27) ABK (21) Perraud (25)
JWP (28) Lavia (19)
Moi (28) Alcaraz (20) Sulemana (21)
Che (26)

However, if we replace our older guys with youngsters then we won't have a blend. 

  • Like 2
Toussaint

Toussaint

Posted
Posted
  On 28/06/2023 at 09:58, Fabrice29 said:

The desire for people to spend their money watching players past their best knows no bounds. 

Much rather watch young and potential stars play every week than players I know have a ceiling. Neither strategy is guaranteed results.

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I wouldn’t, unless it’s a home grown product. I get no satisfaction from witnessing developing talent which other teams will ultimately benefit from, and that’s for the 1 in 10 or whatever that actually work out. I’d like to see a few old dogs of war in the team that are committed to us for what remains of their careers, players I feel I can have some kind of connection with, unlike the bunch of arrogant little pricks we have been signing recently. That’s how it all started for me, lawrie mcmennys rag tag army of stars in the later years of their careers.

  • Like 4
Fabrice29

Fabrice29

Posted
Posted
  On 28/06/2023 at 09:59, Turkish said:

Yeah that's gone brilliantly hasn't it. You need a blend, if you want to watch a team full of potential stars watch U21s football

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Our squad has a host of players who aren’t young and have experience including players in this league. I’d like to see a lot of those leave in fairness but suspect some will naturally stay. We don’t need to sign players who are exclusively under 21 but don’t really get the desire to sign players who are clearly past their best like Coady and Winks. You can get experience and still haven’t reached their ceiling. 

  • Like 1
Wade Garrett

Wade Garrett

Posted
Posted
  On 28/06/2023 at 09:17, Lighthouse said:

Say whatever you like, they still managed to get relegated spending a lot more money than we have. Those are hardly jizzing my pants signings either, especially with their better players being past it and Maddy heading off to Spurs.

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Exactly, all of that, plus the guy who used to make Pep’s coffee in charge and they aren’t linked with one £10m City youth player.

Their fans must be fuming.

jasonb

jasonb

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 27/06/2023 at 18:41, Weston Super Saint said:

It's behind a paywall so I can't read it, but does this mean that Jacob has discovered the intricacies of percentages?

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If you ever want to view full articles that sit behind a paywall simply copy the url and paste it into a webpage archive site like https://archive.ph/ 

The article will have been archived automatically by other users and so you get to read the full piece. I use this a lot for browsing nytimes, indie and theathletic. Of course, the article won't likely be available immediately as it needs to be archived first but I never usually read articles the second they are published.

I realise this isn't strictly ethical as revenues pay wages somewhere along the line but then again, I remember when the internet was free and used for good so I'm happy with my decisions.  

The full article related to this post is available here btw https://archive.ph/ZxsP5

Edited by jasonb
  • Like 6
Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 28/06/2023 at 10:27, S-Clarke said:

What are you on about? No one is saying 'stop signing young players', you need a mix. We can't just focus on youth players. 

I hope this summer we don't!

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Baz (21), Larios (19), ABK (21), Lavia (19), Edozie (20), Mara (20), Alcaraz (20), Sulemana (21)

Lis (26), Carleta Car (26), Aribo (26), Bree (25), Onuachu (29), Orsic (30)

I don't care how old the new signings are, just how good they are. You could argue (and the club tried) that if we can afford them, the experienced players tend not to be good enough anyway. Maybe that changes in the Championship? 

Edited by Chez
  • Like 2
Convict Colony

Convict Colony

Posted
Posted
  On 28/06/2023 at 10:45, jasonb said:



I realise this isn't strictly ethical as revenues pay wages somewhere along the line but then again, I remember when the internet was free and used for good so I'm happy with my decisions.  

The full article related to this post is available here btw https://archive.ph/ZxsP5

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I won't lose too much sleep about this given the ethics of journalists.

  • Like 2
Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted
  On 28/06/2023 at 10:32, Toussaint said:

I’d like to see a few old dogs of war in the team that are committed to us for what remains of their careers, players I feel I can have some kind of connection with, unlike the bunch of arrogant little pricks we have been signing recently. That’s how it all started for me, lawrie mcmennys rag tag army of stars in the later years of their careers.

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The 1983/4 side:

Shilton (33)
Mills (34) K.Armstrong (25) Wright (19) Agboola (22)
Williams (25) D.Armstrong (29) Holmes (29)
Wallace (20) Moran (23) Worthington (35)

  • Like 1
gammon cheeks

gammon cheeks

Posted
Posted
  On 28/06/2023 at 11:07, Chez said:

The 1983/4 side:

Shilton (33)
Mills (34) K.Armstrong (25) Wright (19) Agboola (22)
Williams (25) D.Armstrong (29) Holmes (29)
Wallace (20) Moran (23) Worthington (35)

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Fantastic team that was ! Could and maybe should have won the FA Cup and league that season.

  • Like 1
Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
  On 28/06/2023 at 11:07, Chez said:

The 1983/4 side:

Shilton (33)
Mills (34) K.Armstrong (25) Wright (19) Agboola (22)
Williams (25) D.Armstrong (29) Holmes (29)
Wallace (20) Moran (23) Worthington (35)

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You forgot Mark Dennis who would have been about 23.

But as you see a lot of experienced players there, playing in Europe, cup finals, world cups, lots of england caps. Not just crap players who happen to have played a lot of premier league games because we dont have anyone better. That along with some good young players. Only one teenager, not half a dozen like we've got.

Danbert

Danbert

Posted
Posted
  On 28/06/2023 at 11:40, Turkish said:

You forgot Mark Dennis who would have been about 23.

But as you see a lot of experienced players there, playing in Europe, cup finals, world cups, lots of england caps. Not just crap players who happen to have played a lot of premier league games because we dont have anyone better. That along with some good young players. Only one teenager, not half a dozen like we've got.

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We don't have half a dozen teenagers in and around the first team - only Lavia, and Livramento - who, for my money, have both been decent

  • Like 1
Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
  On 28/06/2023 at 11:46, Danbert said:

We don't have half a dozen teenagers in and around the first team - only Lavia, and Livramento - who, for my money, have both been decent

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only because Larios, Edozie, Mara and the others quickly proved themselves to be not good enough. So we've had to muddle on with shite like Adam Armstrong and Elyanoussi. Unless you think we spent all that money to fill out the U21s?

  • Like 3
hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
  On 28/06/2023 at 11:50, Turkish said:

only because Larios, Edozie, Mara and the others quickly proved themselves to be not good enough. So we've had to muddle on with shite like Adam Armstrong and Elyanoussi. Unless you think we spent all that money to fill out the U21s?

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Bazunu isn't far off being a teenager as well and may as well be considering how vital experience is in his position. 

Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted
  On 28/06/2023 at 11:40, Turkish said:

You forgot Mark Dennis who would have been about 23.

But as you see a lot of experienced players there, playing in Europe, cup finals, world cups, lots of england caps. Not just crap players who happen to have played a lot of premier league games because we dont have anyone better. That along with some good young players. Only one teenager, not half a dozen like we've got.

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Agboola played 33 games. Not sure how many Dennis played. If they both played (not sure they did) that would have been a pretty young back four.

 

wild-saint

wild-saint

Posted
Posted
  On 28/06/2023 at 10:28, Chez said:

We had a blend. As you say, that went brilliantly. 

Baz (21)
KWP (26) Bednarek (27) ABK (21) Perraud (25)
JWP (28) Lavia (19)
Moi (28) Alcaraz (20) Sulemana (21)
Che (26)

However, if we replace our older guys with youngsters then we won't have a blend. 

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swap Moi and Che out for better players (which shouldnt have been too hard) and we would likely have stayed up and the younger ones would have developed. Small margins and now we face losing the best of the rest.

  • Like 1
Dman

Dman

Posted
Posted
  On 28/06/2023 at 12:13, wild-saint said:

swap Moi and Che out for better players (which shouldnt have been too hard) and we would likely have stayed up and the younger ones would have developed. Small margins and now we face losing the best of the rest.

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Baz was one of the biggest reasons we went down last season. Way too inexperienced and total shite. Should never have been in a PL side. 

  • Like 5
Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted
  On 28/06/2023 at 12:13, wild-saint said:

swap Moi and Che out for better players (which shouldnt have been too hard) and we would likely have stayed up and the younger ones would have developed. Small margins and now we face losing the best of the rest.

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we'd of still gone down. In addition to the two positions you mentioned, we needed a really good keeper and CB. Also the Alcaraz and Sulemena signings were needed in the summer not January. Instead we got Aribo and Edozie.

  • Like 1
Saint86

Saint86

Posted
Posted
  On 28/06/2023 at 09:33, S-Clarke said:

Coady is a frustrating one, he is everything this squad has been lacking. Not just defensive ability, but leadership - we're still a bunch of kids, nothing has changed in that respect, so getting someone like Coady would make a huge difference to us. Similar to the impact Dawson had at West Ham when he went there if you remember.

I'm nervous that the only links to incomings are once again, youth team players who haven't played first team football yet. It was the wrong approach last year and that hasn't changed this year.

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In fairness, what we need to sign will be linked to what we let go. We can ship out an awful lot of high wage squad fillers and not need to replace them with anything other than a smattering of academy players... our squad last season was bloated and full of shite.

Saint86

Saint86

Posted
Posted
  On 28/06/2023 at 12:20, Chez said:

https://www.hammers.news/transfer-news/chronically-underused-west-ham-favourite-flynn-downes-could-leave-after-just-one-season-and-seven-starts-claims-report/

Flynn Downes to Saints article based entirely on "TEAMTALK sources".

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Hard to imagine us getting him without giving them a central midfileder they want in return. We all know Lavia is leaving, so i would see if there is a possibility of selling them lavia with a nice sell on clause and take downes as part of the deal.

Rebel

Rebel

Posted
Posted
  On 28/06/2023 at 12:19, Chez said:

we'd of still gone down. In addition to the two positions you mentioned, we needed a really good keeper and CB. Also the Alcaraz and Sulemena signings were needed in the summer not January. Instead we got Aribo and Edozie.

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Agree with all that but I'd argue a key missing ingredient was a starting defensive midfielder to play alongside Lavia, allowing JWP to play further forward. 

Not too mention a second left back to provide competition and cover for Perraud (and allowing KWP to stay on the right) as well as a good replacement for the injured Livramento.

But these were all needed back in the summer - not January or never.

Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted
  On 28/06/2023 at 12:38, Saint86 said:

Hard to imagine us getting him without giving them a central midfileder they want in return. We all know Lavia is leaving, so i would see if there is a possibility of selling them lavia with a nice sell on clause and take downes as part of the deal.

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I've mentioned it before. Makes more sense for West Ham to try to get Lavia than JWP. It will be interesting should they provide a suitable bid and the bigger clubs fail to do so what Lavia will do. Will he do a `Gakpo' and wait for the big clubs to see the light or make the move and continue his path upwards? If he turns down that move where does it leave us financially? do we have to accept a lower bid from a big side?

  • Like 1
Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted
  On 28/06/2023 at 12:41, Rebel said:

Agree with all that but I'd argue a key missing ingredient was a starting defensive midfielder to play alongside Lavia, allowing JWP to play further forward. 

Not too mention a second left back to provide competition and cover for Perraud (and allowing KWP to stay on the right) as well as a good replacement for the injured Livramento.

But these were all needed back in the summer - not January or never.

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We had too many holes that needed filling last summer. The centre forward position was a mess. The lack of pace and flair in the attacking midfield roles.  

  • Like 1
Badger

Badger

Posted
Posted
  On 28/06/2023 at 12:44, Chez said:

I've mentioned it before. Makes more sense for West Ham to try to get Lavia than JWP. It will be interesting should they provide a suitable bid and the bigger clubs fail to do so what Lavia will do. Will he do a `Gakpo' and wait for the big clubs to see the light or make the move and continue his path upwards? If he turns down that move where does it leave us financially? do we have to accept a lower bid from a big side?

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I'd suggest his 'value' to us would be greater if he helps see us promoted again, irrespective of what we might sell him for in twelve months.

The danger of course is we don't make it for promotion, or if he has a crap/injury plagued season. 

  • Like 1
Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted
  On 28/06/2023 at 12:17, Jeremy Corbyn said:

If we had 2002/03 Niemi in goal we might have stayed up

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If we had a wheelie bin in goal it would’ve had a better save ratio.

John B

John B

Posted
Posted
  On 28/06/2023 at 12:05, Chez said:

Agboola played 33 games. Not sure how many Dennis played. If they both played (not sure they did) that would have been a pretty young back four.

 

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I seem to remember Agboola was sometimes used as a sweeper in a back 5

  • Like 5
OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 28/06/2023 at 13:41, SambaMaverick said:

We could be in for a decent pay day if West Ham do indeed come in for JWP. £40-45m, that'll do nicely.

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I doubt we will get £30m for him. He is not rated the same elsewhere than he is by our fanbase

Edited by OldNick
  • Confused 1
Golac's Cunning Stunts

Golac's Cunning Stunts

Posted
Posted
  On 28/06/2023 at 12:48, Chez said:

We had too many holes that needed filling last summer. The centre forward position was a mess. The lack of pace and flair in the attacking midfield roles.  

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All those holes still exist. Naively, I was expecting at least some rumours by now on how we are planning to fill them!

SambaMaverick

SambaMaverick

Posted
Posted
  On 28/06/2023 at 13:45, OldNick said:

I doubt we will get £30m for him. He is not rated the same elsewhere than he is by our fanbase

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Agreed, we can hold out for more if WHU are the team to come in though. I'm starting to lean with Fareham's view - there's much better value abroad for that kind of money.

Saint_clark

Saint_clark

Posted
Posted
  On 28/06/2023 at 13:49, SambaMaverick said:

Agreed, we can hold out for more if WHU are the team to come in though. I'm starting to lean with Fareham's view - there's much better value abroad for that kind of money.

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Not in terms of what he gives us there isn't. He could easily get 15-20 goals next season for us from midfield plus get into double figures for assists. 

  • Like 1
OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted
  On 28/06/2023 at 14:17, Saint_clark said:

Not in terms of what he gives us there isn't. He could easily get 15-20 goals next season for us from midfield plus get into double figures for assists. 

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My god, I do hope you are right. You need to get a bet on that. 

Personally I'd divide it by 2 for goals scored. ( unless we get 10-15 penalties ) He may do the double figure assists 

Saint_clark

Saint_clark

Posted
Posted
  On 28/06/2023 at 14:26, OldNick said:

My god, I do hope you are right. You need to get a bet on that. 

Personally I'd divide it by 2 for goals scored. ( unless we get 10-15 penalties ) He may do the double figure assists 

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Got to think about two things for him. One is the extra time and space you get in the championship - watch Che Adams goal compilations, that's how he got loads of his. 

The second is there will be a lot more fouls committed around the box than there were in the Prem. 

Saint86

Saint86

Posted
Posted
  On 28/06/2023 at 13:45, OldNick said:

I doubt we will get £30m for him. He is not rated the same elsewhere than he is by our fanbase

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Its clear that the club want to keep him (and others) and are putting high prices on our players. This is a good thing.

Remains to be seen whether we'll need to accept cheaper offers come the end of the window. But for anything less than £45M i'd keep JWP.

  • Like 3
HarvSFC

HarvSFC

Posted
Posted

The issue with last summer was the lack of a plan and the old belief of maintaining the £15-£20m price range, which doesn't get a lot in the Premier League these days. 15 players signed across both windows, too scattergun. We could have signed 4 players for £35m - A goalkeeper, a centre-back a centre-mid and a striker and the team would have been serviceable depending on the quality of those coming, while spending the same amount of money. We bought VvD for quite a high fee of £13m eight years ago, making him the most expensive Dutch defender. But, we still made a £62m profit on him and there probably wasn't as many add-ons as we see in all our deals these days because we paid a good initial fee. The club, weirdly has just been ignorant to inflation.

You see Brighton making £40m bids for Levi Colwill this summer and Brentford bidding £30m for Brennan Johnson. The two current benchmark clubs. But, you couldn't imagine us spending fees like that, which is what you need to pay to get a proven player these days.

£10m is expensive for a Championship signing, Ruben Neves and Britt Assombalonga are the record transfers for this level at £15m, so we should at least be able to sign some top players down here.

  • Like 2
wild-saint

wild-saint

Posted
Posted
  On 28/06/2023 at 17:04, HarvSFC said:

The issue with last summer was the lack of a plan and the old belief of maintaining the £15-£20m price range, which doesn't get a lot in the Premier League these days. 15 players signed across both windows, too scattergun. We could have signed 4 players for £35m - A goalkeeper, a centre-back a centre-mid and a striker and the team would have been serviceable depending on the quality of those coming, while spending the same amount of money. We bought VvD for quite a high fee of £13m eight years ago, making him the most expensive Dutch defender. But, we still made a £62m profit on him and there probably wasn't as many add-ons as we see in all our deals these days because we paid a good initial fee. The club, weirdly has just been ignorant to inflation.

You see Brighton making £40m bids for Levi Colwill this summer and Brentford bidding £30m for Brennan Johnson. The two current benchmark clubs. But, you couldn't imagine us spending fees like that, which is what you need to pay to get a proven player these days.

£10m is expensive for a Championship signing, Ruben Neves and Britt Assombalonga are the record transfers for this level at £15m, so we should at least be able to sign some top players down here.

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gets Tella and Tino apparently

LGTL

LGTL

Posted
Posted

Looking forward to the annual avalanche of player departures once the season ticket renewal deadline has passed 😀

  • Like 1
  • Haha 4

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