Lord Duckhunter Posted 5 December, 2023 Share Posted 5 December, 2023 15 hours ago, pimpin4rizeal said: it’s good vision by Martin to see things the previous managers didn’t Correct, he can see Championship defenders playing against him. The others couldn’t see this, they had to watch him playing against Premier league players. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyNumber7 Posted 5 December, 2023 Share Posted 5 December, 2023 Get voting Saintsweb! https://www.thepfa.com/fpotm/championship 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefizzy14 Posted 5 December, 2023 Share Posted 5 December, 2023 1 hour ago, LuckyNumber7 said: Get voting Saintsweb! https://www.thepfa.com/fpotm/championship Done. Hope Arma wins it, he deserves to 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpin4rizeal Posted 5 December, 2023 Share Posted 5 December, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said: Correct, he can see Championship defenders playing against him. The others couldn’t see this, they had to watch him playing against Premier league players. Ah right. So do you think che adams is a better premiership striker whilst arma can only do well in the championship then ? im not sure I buy this actually just cos idiots like Ralph and selles thought so doesn’t make it true.. we saw week in week out what che was.a shitty finisher with some decent ish hold up play.but we never really got to see a Adam Armstrong that got a good run in the team and got his confidence up .. just his pressing,pace,and finishing should see some goal threat imo Edited 5 December, 2023 by pimpin4rizeal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 5 December, 2023 Share Posted 5 December, 2023 12 minutes ago, pimpin4rizeal said: Ah right. So do you think che adams is a better premiership striker whilst arma can only do well in the championship then ? im not sure I buy this actually just cos idiots like Ralph and selles thought so doesn’t make it true.. we saw week in week out what che was.a shitty finisher with some decent ish hold up play.but we never really got to see a Adam Armstrong that got a good run in the team and got his confidence up .. just his pressing,pace,and finishing should see some goal threat imo You can repeat it over and over and over but you will never make it true. You're trying to make out that Adam Armstrong was some unused gem who never got a chance, spent two years kicking his heels. When in fact he played game after game, match after match and basically never fucking scored in Premier League. He had opportunities in the top flight that a thousand other strikers would kill for. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpin4rizeal Posted 5 December, 2023 Share Posted 5 December, 2023 6 minutes ago, CB Fry said: You can repeat it over and over and over but you will never make it true. You're trying to make out that Adam Armstrong was some unused gem who never got a chance, spent two years kicking his heels. When in fact he played game after game, match after match and basically never fucking scored in Premier League. He had opportunities in the top flight that a thousand other strikers would kill for. I quote David in Sweden’s post above which explains it well “ Think you may be a trifle hard on AA ...(CB Fry) there is a lot of difference between playing for 80-90 minutes and wasting chances that come, and the opportunity to even having a chance to score. As an example last season. Adam Armstrong was automatic starter during Ralph's shorter term as a manager and started 11 times in the first 15 games albeit on left wing, (but did score the winning goal v. Chelsea), whereas Che Adams was always the main striker but seldom scored so often. The two subsequent managers disregarded Armstrong as a starting option and he was used as sub. on just 15 games during those remaining games. Closer study showed that around half of those were in the closing 10 minutes and several even in "added time" - not many chances there , and occasionally he had no goal chances at all. There has been an internal debate on here about the effectiveness of Che Adams as a lone striker and even when they both played in the same start side, as it was Che who had (and frequently missed) the most chances, and this was no favour to Armstrong who got less opportunities.” 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notnowcato Posted 5 December, 2023 Share Posted 5 December, 2023 29 minutes ago, pimpin4rizeal said: I quote David in Sweden’s post above which explains it well “ Think you may be a trifle hard on AA ...(CB Fry) there is a lot of difference between playing for 80-90 minutes and wasting chances that come, and the opportunity to even having a chance to score. As an example last season. Adam Armstrong was automatic starter during Ralph's shorter term as a manager and started 11 times in the first 15 games albeit on left wing, (but did score the winning goal v. Chelsea), whereas Che Adams was always the main striker but seldom scored so often. The two subsequent managers disregarded Armstrong as a starting option and he was used as sub. on just 15 games during those remaining games. Closer study showed that around half of those were in the closing 10 minutes and several even in "added time" - not many chances there , and occasionally he had no goal chances at all. There has been an internal debate on here about the effectiveness of Che Adams as a lone striker and even when they both played in the same start side, as it was Che who had (and frequently missed) the most chances, and this was no favour to Armstrong who got less opportunities.” Pffft you and your facts. I’m happy for AA, as I would have been for Che if he was banging them in for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 5 December, 2023 Share Posted 5 December, 2023 55 minutes ago, pimpin4rizeal said: I quote David in Sweden’s post above which explains it well “ Think you may be a trifle hard on AA ...(CB Fry) there is a lot of difference between playing for 80-90 minutes and wasting chances that come, and the opportunity to even having a chance to score. As an example last season. Adam Armstrong was automatic starter during Ralph's shorter term as a manager and started 11 times in the first 15 games albeit on left wing, (but did score the winning goal v. Chelsea), whereas Che Adams was always the main striker but seldom scored so often. The two subsequent managers disregarded Armstrong as a starting option and he was used as sub. on just 15 games during those remaining games. Closer study showed that around half of those were in the closing 10 minutes and several even in "added time" - not many chances there , and occasionally he had no goal chances at all. There has been an internal debate on here about the effectiveness of Che Adams as a lone striker and even when they both played in the same start side, as it was Che who had (and frequently missed) the most chances, and this was no favour to Armstrong who got less opportunities.” This is a thread about Adam Armstrong but it seems to me the vast majority of your argument is that Che Adams is rubbish so that makes Adam Armstrong a Premier League striker by default. Adam Armstrong had plenty of starts and minutes to score goals in the Premier League. He didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 5 December, 2023 Share Posted 5 December, 2023 (edited) 31 starts in the Premier League is not "he was never given a chance". That is plenty. That an opportunity at top flight level That most strikers around the world would kill for. Absolutely insane this forum that people think that isn't a reasonable opportunity to make a mark, or, you know, score more than two goals a season. Edited 5 December, 2023 by CB Fry 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 5 December, 2023 Share Posted 5 December, 2023 As well as AA is doing this season, he was crap for two years in the PL and if anything he is a metaphor for the huge job we would face just surviving, if we were to make it back into the top league. It’s not like he was keeping the bench warm for Pelle and Lambert either, if you can’t force your way into a team which can’t score for love nor money, that’s a pretty poor reflection of your own abilities, not the managers selection policy. Put simply, he’s the Geordie Vydra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 6 December, 2023 Share Posted 6 December, 2023 He wasn't as effective as a 35 year old Shane Long in the premier league which says a lot. Clearly he can do it at this level. If and when we go up, he might be a squad option and he will benefit from a year at Southampton in the championship. He came into a turbulent club, but he was given a decent chance. He's got his confidence back which is clearly massive for him. We've got to get promoted first though! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 6 December, 2023 Share Posted 6 December, 2023 17 hours ago, pimpin4rizeal said: Ah right. So do you think che adams is a better premiership striker whilst arma can only do well in the championship then ? im not sure I buy this actually just cos idiots like Ralph and selles thought so doesn’t make it true.. we saw week in week out what che was.a shitty finisher with some decent ish hold up play.but we never really got to see a Adam Armstrong that got a good run in the team and got his confidence up .. just his pressing,pace,and finishing should see some goal threat imo 😂 I don’t know about AA winning “Player of the Month”, but you’ve got my vote for”pony of the month.”. AA was absolutely atrocious at Premier League level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gio1saints Posted 6 December, 2023 Share Posted 6 December, 2023 AA in his current form is possibly the most tenacious small stature saints forward we've had since the days of Steve Moran and Kevin Keegan. I’ve read the entire thread and it’s clear there’s a view that because he was mostly anonymous for his time in the EPL that he has that hanging over him until and unless he does actually replicate this kind of current form versus the big boys. His form does behove very well however and if the league 2nd highest goalscorer is not good enough for the EPL then by that yardstick none of the others behind him are. I personally think he is absolutely making the most of his capabilities - we have other players with more promise more potential, perhaps, but they do not follow through with goals and consistent performances. AA, no disrespect to him, may have more limited technical and physical skills but he maxes them out every single week for saints currently. I’d add that the responsibility of being Captain has added vim into his legs and as far as “ heart” is concerned he’s got it in abundance. He is prepared to sacrifice himself all night long for the team Great guy to have as our leader. And fair play to RM too for seeing that quality in him as I for sure did not think that this Adam Armstrong existed at start of season. Top man. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verlaine1979 Posted 6 December, 2023 Share Posted 6 December, 2023 22 hours ago, pimpin4rizeal said: Ah right. So do you think che adams is a better premiership striker whilst arma can only do well in the championship then ? im not sure I buy this actually just cos idiots like Ralph and selles thought so doesn’t make it true.. we saw week in week out what che was.a shitty finisher with some decent ish hold up play.but we never really got to see a Adam Armstrong that got a good run in the team and got his confidence up .. just his pressing,pace,and finishing should see some goal threat imo Che Adams is an utterly shit premier league striker. So is Adam Armstrong. Hence, we were relegated from the premier league. Now, by virtue of tenacity and a wider variety of finishing, it appears that AA is a more reliable championship striker. There's no mystery here. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
It's There Posted 6 December, 2023 Share Posted 6 December, 2023 What has struck me is that, I think, many said he scuffed goals in the championship pre joining Saints. Now he largely scores clean goals. I think he’s improving 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallagroth Posted 6 December, 2023 Share Posted 6 December, 2023 Could be an argument that our style of play in the prem just wasn’t right for Adam Armstrong and this kind of football plays more to his strengths. I’d like to hope so anyway. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 6 December, 2023 Share Posted 6 December, 2023 6 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said: 😂 I don’t know about AA winning “Player of the Month”, but you’ve got my vote for”pony of the month.”. AA was absolutely atrocious at Premier League level. I wish you'd give up your obsession with ponies. It just makes the lot down the road think they're on to something. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNSUN Posted 6 December, 2023 Share Posted 6 December, 2023 1 hour ago, It's There said: What has struck me is that, I think, many said he scuffed goals in the championship pre joining Saints. Now he largely scores clean goals. I think he’s improving If I remember correctly I think it was Che who was the goal scuffer. Fair play to AA for stepping up this year. Confidence does wonders to a player and i love his work rate and attitude. Leading by example. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 6 December, 2023 Share Posted 6 December, 2023 Next time we’re in the Premier League, if he’s starting regularly we’ll go straight back down. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verlaine1979 Posted 6 December, 2023 Share Posted 6 December, 2023 2 hours ago, It's There said: What has struck me is that, I think, many said he scuffed goals in the championship pre joining Saints. Now he largely scores clean goals. I think he’s improving Che was the scuffer. Can only hit a clean strike when it's leathered straight down his laces. Any sort of side-foot or precision and he fumbles it. Was evident in his Brum video, and so it proved. Terrible, terrible finisher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austsaint Posted 6 December, 2023 Share Posted 6 December, 2023 3 hours ago, It's There said: What has struck me is that, I think, many said he scuffed goals in the championship pre joining Saints. Now he largely scores clean goals. I think he’s improving You might be thinking of Adams as the "scuffed goal" specialist. If you have a look at the reel of AA's 28 goals for Blackburn prior to joining Saints they are mostly all sweet contacts. Little doubt in my mind that AA is a great Championship striker/attacker but, like many (Adams, Tella and most likely Stewart included) isn't up to Prem standard. Though I'm not a stats man, it's interesting to look at Tella's Prem record with us - something like one goal from 30 odd appearances, similar to AA's four goals from 50 or appearances. If Saints are promoted this season we would need at least two new strikers of at least the Danny Ings (when he played for us) standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gio1saints Posted 7 December, 2023 Share Posted 7 December, 2023 (edited) A lot of people pouring cold water on any thoughts that AA may be able to bring this current form, playing in this current team style, into the EPL if we are promoted next season. I could list the logical fallacies at play here but only one suffices for now: 1. You were rubbish in EPL before so you will forever be rubbish at EPL. This is plainly absurd. Everybody knows how bad we were last year but that does not necessarily mean if we get promoted this season he and we will be that bad again. One has to look at the overall context - so writing him off as just a championship striker using that argument is tenuous to put it mildly. Saints are playing in a completely new way and he has got an integral role in that new style. Wether that style and his ability/role will be good enough in the EPL is a subject for debate- not him being written off already as some appear to be doing. Edited 7 December, 2023 by gio1saints So and make sense 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 7 December, 2023 Share Posted 7 December, 2023 17 hours ago, It's There said: What has struck me is that, I think, many said he scuffed goals in the championship pre joining Saints. Now he largely scores clean goals. I think he’s improving That was Che, I was the first person to say it when we signed him looking at the compilation of his goals, I was largely mocked for saying it and then it became the prevalent opinion after a couple of seasons. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Bateman Posted 7 December, 2023 Share Posted 7 December, 2023 15 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said: Next time we’re in the Premier League, if he’s starting regularly we’ll go straight back down. Especially if he's still being played aged 45 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 Posting here as well as the match thread. Arma with 14 goals and 11 assists so far this season, only player in the top four England leagues (and the top leagues around Europe) in double figures for both. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintant Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 Arma has been brilliant all season- plays his position superbly with a healthy combination of goals and assists. Very pleased for him. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefizzy14 Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 1 hour ago, Saint_clark said: Posting here as well as the match thread. Arma with 14 goals and 11 assists so far this season, only player in the top four England leagues (and the top leagues around Europe) in double figures for both. Absolutely brilliant from Arma 😊 another goal and three more assists today. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulwantsapint81 Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 What a difference compared to 1st game of season when an embarrassed deflection got him up & running Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintNewForest Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 I feel bad for saying I'd drive him anywhere last summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintBobby Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 He has been a revelation. Perhaps Championship is his level, but he is sure shining at this level. Also, as many have pointed out, he works tirelessly, tracking back etc. I don't recall that last season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 3 hours ago, davefizzy14 said: Absolutely brilliant from Arma 😊 another goal and three more assists today. Only seems to have been credited with 2 assists, not the one for Adams, though I can't see why, unless the defender touched it before it got to Che. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggie May Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 5 hours ago, Saint_clark said: Posting here as well as the match thread. Arma with 14 goals and 11 assists so far this season, only player in the top four England leagues (and the top leagues around Europe) in double figures for both. Our player of the season so far, surely? Ridiculous record. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan The Flames Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 14 hours ago, VectisSaint said: Only seems to have been credited with 2 assists, not the one for Adams, though I can't see why, unless the defender touched it before it got to Che. The ball goes to the defender, he mis-controls it and it goes through to Che. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 13 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said: The ball goes to the defender, he mis-controls it and it goes through to Che. I thought the same but rewatching it I'm not so sure the defender actually touches it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexLaw76 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 8 minutes ago, Saint_clark said: I thought the same but rewatching it I'm not so sure the defender actually touches it. The defender clearly touches the ball... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bugenhagen Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 17 hours ago, SaintNewForest said: I feel bad for saying I'd drive him anywhere last summer. Yo could claim it was said as sort of terms of endearment 😉 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 9 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said: The defender clearly touches the ball... Just watched it again, really not that clear. Watch the replay from the other end, slow it down if you have to. The flight of the ball doesn't change at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexLaw76 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 minute ago, Saint_clark said: Just watched it again, really not that clear. Watch the replay from the other end, slow it down if you have to. The flight of the ball doesn't change at all. It is clear. It comes off the defender to Che Adams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Just now, AlexLaw76 said: It is clear. It comes off the defender to Che Adams Well I've checked it twice now, why don't you take another look and tell me where a defender touches it. Closest it comes is when the CB sticks a foot out but you can see it bounce off the ground. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexLaw76 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Just now, Saint_clark said: Well I've checked it twice now, why don't you take another look and tell me where a defender touches it. Closest it comes is when the CB sticks a foot out but you can see it bounce off the ground. I dont need to tell you, even the match reviewers, stats and officials noted it came off the defender 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said: I dont need to tell you, even the match reviewers, stats and officials noted it came off the defender Trust what you're told rather than the evidence of your own eyes then, eh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexLaw76 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 2 minutes ago, Saint_clark said: Trust what you're told rather than the evidence of your own eyes then, eh. No mate, I can see it take a nick off the defender, thought was clear further up! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Just now, AlexLaw76 said: No mate, I can see it take a nick off the defender, thought was clear further up! Well I've just watched it for another time slowed down in 4k and I'm telling you it doesn't take a touch at all. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexLaw76 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Just now, Saint_clark said: Well I've just watched it for another time slowed down in 4k and I'm telling you it doesn't take a touch at all. everyone else must be wrong then. fair enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Just now, AlexLaw76 said: everyone else must be wrong then. fair enough Agreed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polegategavin243 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 I was of the same opinion. What had AA not been credited with this assist. It is clear to me on replays the defender actually air shots the ball as goes past him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BERMUDASAINT Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 On 06/12/2023 at 16:33, Lord Duckhunter said: Next time we’re in the Premier League, if he’s starting regularly we’ll go straight back down. And if you are wrong, will u shut up? Fucking cluless, u love to bring our players down. My opionion is you are a shite judge of a football player. Many of you got AA wrong, there is little patience for a player who doesnt obviously light up the PL. No grace for a player stepping up to PL? in a team in disarray? With inept managers? I was frustrated with AA but could see he was a fighter that had good skills, pace, speed and eye for goal (which he has shown in the epl, and he has shown again). I also clung on the snippet of info from Tella who said he was the best finisher at the club before we got relegated. Excuse me if I a use a pro footballer opinion who trained with him over a PONY forum banger. Confidence is huge for strikers, he was absent of it due to a poor start with a poor SFC team. HE (WE) have it back and it is showing accross the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 5 minutes ago, Polegategavin243 said: I was of the same opinion. What had AA not been credited with this assist. It is clear to me on replays the defender actually air shots the ball as goes past him You and me against the world Gav. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BERMUDASAINT Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 On 07/12/2023 at 05:24, gio1saints said: A lot of people pouring cold water on any thoughts that AA may be able to bring this current form, playing in this current team style, into the EPL if we are promoted next season. I could list the logical fallacies at play here but only one suffices for now: 1. You were rubbish in EPL before so you will forever be rubbish at EPL. This is plainly absurd. Everybody knows how bad we were last year but that does not necessarily mean if we get promoted this season he and we will be that bad again. One has to look at the overall context - so writing him off as just a championship striker using that argument is tenuous to put it mildly. Saints are playing in a completely new way and he has got an integral role in that new style. Wether that style and his ability/role will be good enough in the EPL is a subject for debate- not him being written off already as some appear to be doing. Don't know where u came from but your post are well thought out with good football logic behind your thoughts/posts. Your positive attitude is refreshing for a saints fan who has to endure decades mediocrity, many have fallen into the glass half empty crew. I appreciate your contribution to this forum and the team support. I am now going to listerine my lips from the ass kissing.😝 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gio1saints Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 39 minutes ago, BERMUDASAINT said: Don't know where u came from but your post are well thought out with good football logic behind your thoughts/posts. Your positive attitude is refreshing for a saints fan who has to endure decades mediocrity, many have fallen into the glass half empty crew. I appreciate your contribution to this forum and the team support. I am now going to listerine my lips from the ass kissing.😝 Appreciate the thoughts Bermudasaint. 😇. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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