Adam Armstrong - Official: Loaned to WBA

[Fabrice29]

3 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

"Had his day" 

He isn't 35 years old. He is only 28 years old, in his prime years of his career. His peak being top Championship level, not Premier League.

Playing largely on the right, not upfront, he was 2nd top scorer in the league we will be in next season. 

I wouldn't want him in the team (or squad) after another promotion to the Premier League. But he is alot better than a bench warmer in the Championship! He would be one if the best players in the entire league, as he showed as recently as last season!

You cant motivate people with this outlook. They are human beings. A large reason he performed so well last season is a) he played in a way of playing that was set up to suit him, b) he bought into the manager and journey of getting to the PL and having a crack at it with this team and c) like you said he played in a different position now.

Lots has changed since then. A) Next season presumably we wont be playing the same way. B) If everyone is telling him we need him to score the goals to get us to the league that we've already bombed him out of and everyone assumes we will again, he will be less motivated. C) He's been quite open about wanting to play as a striker not a right winger, both himself and Martin were on record about him not being chuffed about playing out there.

The biggest issue we'll have is getting him off the wage bill as presumably he's on a decent wedge here compared to most other Championship clubs but keeping him around because he performed in different circumstances last time we were in the Championship makes just as much sense as employing Cooper because he too got a completely different team promoted a while back, which is something you're criticising in another thread. We have to aspire to do better than players who have failed us and that cycle simply has to start this summer. We cannot rely on motivating a broken squad again, especially as it's not believable anymore. 

Edited Sunday at 11:43 by Fabrice29

[Matthew Le God]

6 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Isn't he on record as saying he wants to play centrally? Pretty sure Martin said something like that last season.

What he wants and where he is more effective are different things! Do you disagree he has been more effective wider for us? He gets lost and outmuscled playing centrally. 

[Midfield_General]

4 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

He’s the same age as Niemi

Which Niemi?

Last I heard, he was 52 (and Finnished)

[Matthew Le God]

7 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

You cant motivate people with this outlook. They are human beings. A large reason he performed so well last season is a) he played in a way of playing that was set up to suit him, b) he bought into the manager and journey of getting to the PL and having a crack at it with this team and c) like you said he played in a different position now.

Lots has changed since then. A) Next season presumably we wont be playing the same way. B) If everyone is telling him we need him to score the goals to get us to the league that we've already bombed him out of and everyone assumes we will again, he will be less motivated. C) He's been quite open about wanting to play as a striker not a right winger, both himself and Martin were on record about him not being chuffed about playing out there.

The biggest issue we'll have is getting him off the wage bill as presumably he's on a decent wedge here compared to most other Championship clubs but keeping him around because he performed in different circumstances last time we were in the Championship makes just as much sense as employing Cooper because he too got a completely different team promoted a while back, which is something you're criticising in another thread. We have to aspire to do better than players who have failed us and that cycle simply has to start this summer. We cannot rely on motivating a broken squad again, especially as it's not believable anymore. 

He was also more effective and prolific for Blackburn when playing out wide. They were not playing MartinBall tactics.

[Fabrice29]

31 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

He was also more effective and prolific for Blackburn when playing out wide. They were not playing MartinBall tactics.

MartinBall tactics ffs  Good quality stuff. 

Btw a quick look at WhoScored.com shows Blackburn as the 2nd highest possession based team in the league the season Armstrong scored 28 goals. They were shot heavy and he played predominantly with Harvey Elliot and BBD either side of him. Which isn't a million miles away from MartinBall tactics presumably. 

Edited Sunday at 12:21 by Fabrice29

[Lee On Solent Saint]

28 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

What he wants and where he is more effective are different things! Do you disagree he has been more effective wider for us? He gets lost and outmuscled playing centrally. 

Not disagreeing that he was effect in a wider position, he still however missed a bundle of chances. I think he's going to want to move on personally. 

[Matthew Le God]

3 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Not disagreeing that he was effect in a wider position, he still however missed a bundle of chances. I think he's going to want to move on personally. 

I can live with that if he is the Championship 2nd top scorer again while mainly playing out wide.

If we can replace him with a player that would also be effective in the Premier League, then great... try for that. But it'll be difficult to find a player than can match Armstrong's goal output in the Championship, also be effective in the PL for 2026/27 season and be willing to join us in the Championship.

[Lord Duckhunter]

One of the “best players in the entire league” who is a striker, can’t play centrally 😂😂. 

[Matthew Le God]

1 minute ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

One of the “best players in the entire league” who is a striker, can’t play centrally 😂😂. 

1) He was the 2nd top scorer in the league last season. Why would you not consider the 2nd top scorer in a league to be one of the best players? Would you apply the same to any other league?

2) Don't view him as a central striker then! It is not his most effective role.

[Wade Garrett]

3 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

"Had his day" 

He isn't 35 years old. He is only 28 years old, in his prime years of his career. His peak being top Championship level, not Premier League.

Playing largely on the right, not upfront, he was 2nd top scorer in the league we will be in next season. 

I wouldn't want him in the team (or squad) after another promotion to the Premier League. But he is alot better than a bench warmer in the Championship! He would be one if the best players in the entire league, as he showed as recently as last season!

Bored again are you?

 

 

[Fabrice29]

9 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

1) He was the 2nd top scorer in the league last season. Why would you not consider the 2nd top scorer in a league to be one of the best players? Would you apply the same to any other league?

2) Don't view him as a central striker then! It is not his most effective role.

For a teacher, your lack of empathy or consideration for what a human being might be wanting or motivated by is quite incredible. If it helps then on FM you're going to struggle to get performances out of someone who has an unhappy notification next to their name, has a preferred position which you are refusing to play him in and who you've loaned out and attempted to replace in the past but unlike FM life isn't possible to hardwire so the level of player is guaranteed goals if you put him in a league he's over powered for.

Edited Sunday at 12:40 by Fabrice29

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, Matthew Le God said:

He was the 2nd top scorer in the league last season. Why would you not consider the 2nd top scorer in a league to be one of the best players?

What’s that got to do with this season or next season? 
 

He’s been pony this, both in this league and the lower one. If he was one of the best players in this league, why has he been shite at WBA? 

[Lighthouse]

22 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

What’s that got to do with this season or next season? 
 

He’s been pony this, both in this league and the lower one. If he was one of the best players in this league, why has he been shite at WBA? 

He was pretty crap in the PL two years ago too. Then we got relegated to the Championship and suddenly he wasn’t. Since he’s already got a contract here, I think I’d probably take a chance on that happening again.

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

He was pretty crap in the PL two years ago too. Then we got relegated to the Championship and suddenly he wasn’t.

He’s been pretty crap for West Brom, in the league where he’s “one of the best players”. Unless he starts banging a few in for them, he needs to be moved on. 

[Lighthouse]

23 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

He’s been pretty crap for West Brom, in the league where he’s “one of the best players”. Unless he starts banging a few in for them, he needs to be moved on. 

Let’s sack off a solid 20 goal a season Championship player because he hasn’t been great for a third of a season at West Brom. A bit weird from a bloke who raves about Dyche, despite an awful half season at Everton.

[qwertyell]

1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

Let’s sack off a solid 20 goal a season Championship player

He's scored 20 goals twice in six Championship seasons. Which is no mean feat, but the idea that he's a guaranteed goal machine at that level is a bit spurious.

I wonder where his head is at. He's had three cracks at the Premier League and been absolutely useless every time. It can't be an easy thing to digest for a player, coming to terms with the realisation that they've already hit their ceiling and can't cut it at the top level - and probably won't ever get another chance to try. 

I'm not really surprised he's struggling at West Brom - that's not where he would've envisioned his season ending up. The disappointment/disillusionment must be palpable.

There's got to be a good chance that his confidence is in pieces and the hangover will carry on long into next season.

I don't know the answer - he's obviously got something to offer the squad at Championship level - but a clean break might suit both parties. If we're serious about returning to the Premier League and staying there, he's not part of the bigger picture. And he surely knows that. Which in turn can't do much good for his confidence.

Maybe it's better to pull off the band aid sooner rather than later and move on.

[skintsaint]

If we do get rid, what we don't want to do is sell to a promotion rival which leaves his options a bit short as I would imagine to the lower half of the league his wages might be a bit high.

[Lighthouse]

50 minutes ago, qwertyell said:

He's scored 20 goals twice in six Championship seasons. Which is no mean feat, but the idea that he's a guaranteed goal machine at that level is a bit spurious.

I wonder where his head is at. He's had three cracks at the Premier League and been absolutely useless every time. It can't be an easy thing to digest for a player, coming to terms with the realisation that they've already hit their ceiling and can't cut it at the top level - and probably won't ever get another chance to try. 

I'm not really surprised he's struggling at West Brom - that's not where he would've envisioned his season ending up. The disappointment/disillusionment must be palpable.

There's got to be a good chance that his confidence is in pieces and the hangover will carry on long into next season.

I don't know the answer - he's obviously got something to offer the squad at Championship level - but a clean break might suit both parties. If we're serious about returning to the Premier League and staying there, he's not part of the bigger picture. And he surely knows that. Which in turn can't do much good for his confidence.

Maybe it's better to pull off the band aid sooner rather than later and move on.

Having checked, in his most recent three Championship seasons he has scored 16, 28 and 21 respectively. That’s an average of 22 a season, which I’ll take any day. If you can suggest some players who have consistently scored at a better rate, who would be affordable and willing to come here I’d be interested to hear their names.

As for his mental state, he was our top scorer last time off the back of scoring twice in two consecutive PL seasons. That didn’t seem to affect his performance in the Championship and I see no reason why this time would be different.

We all want to get back to the PL and stay there but we’ve got to get promoted first. By all means bin him off next summer if we do but next season I think it’d be foolish not to want him in the squad.

[Saint_clark]

15 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

For a teacher, your lack of empathy or consideration for what a human being might be wanting or motivated by is quite incredible. If it helps then on FM you're going to struggle to get performances out of someone who has an unhappy notification next to their name, has a preferred position which you are refusing to play him in and who you've loaned out and attempted to replace in the past but unlike FM life isn't possible to hardwire so the level of player is guaranteed goals if you put him in a league he's over powered for.

You reckon Armstrong is happier this season playing through the middle for WBA than he was last season playing out wide for us? 

As Lighthouse said, now isn't the time to sell and replace - it's next summer following (hopefully) promotion when he's scored 20 to fire us up and his value is much higher. 

In truth the best time was last summer, we'd have probably got quite a high fee for him, but Russell was an idiot who thought he knew best and overestimated the abilities of his mates in the team. 

Edited yesterday at 04:19 by Saint_clark

[skintsaint]

3 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

As Lighthouse said, now isn't the time to sell and replace - it's next summer

think he is out of contract so easy decision then if we go up.

[Turkish]

23 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

"Had his day" 

He isn't 35 years old. He is only 28 years old, in his prime years of his career. His peak being top Championship level, not Premier League.

Playing largely on the right, not upfront, he was 2nd top scorer in the league we will be in next season. 

I wouldn't want him in the team (or squad) after another promotion to the Premier League. But he is alot better than a bench warmer in the Championship! He would be one if the best players in the entire league, as he showed as recently as last season!

https://www.efl.com/news/2024/april/14/see-who-made-the-efl-team-of-the-season/

[Matthew Le God]

3 minutes ago, Turkish said:

https://www.efl.com/news/2024/april/14/see-who-made-the-efl-team-of-the-season/

Talk us through what you think that proves and how it makes me wrong about something?

[Matthew Le God]

@Turkish That link is not proof Armstrong was not one of the best players in the league. What makes you think it is?

#TurkishFail

[Dman]

20 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

MartinBall tactics ffs  Good quality stuff. 

Btw a quick look at WhoScored.com shows Blackburn as the 2nd highest possession based team in the league the season Armstrong scored 28 goals. They were shot heavy and he played predominantly with Harvey Elliot and BBD either side of him. Which isn't a million miles away from MartinBall tactics presumably. 

If Sheff Utd don't go up, we could very feasibly end up with AA & BBD in our front 3 next season. 

[Matthew Le God]

2 minutes ago, Dman said:

If Sheff Utd don't go up, we could very feasibly end up with AA & BBD in our front 3 next season. 

That wouldn't be a bad thing... as long as we sold them if promoted. 

[Dman]

1 minute ago, Matthew Le God said:

That wouldn't be a bad thing... as long as we sold them if promoted. 

It would. He's an absolutly awful footballer. 

3 goals in 15 games for Sheff Utd this season. Much better out there for the 10 or so million we could get for him. 

[Miltonaggro]

5 minutes ago, Dman said:

If Sheff Utd don't go up, we could very feasibly end up with AA & BBD in our front 3 next season. 

Dixon and Speedie revival for those too young to have had the pleasure.

[revolution saint]

Meh, he can probably be decent for us next season but wouldn't be gutted if he leaves either.  The main problem is he doesn't fit into a pressing style and can't play centrally.  Suspect his wages would price him out of any move except to maybe Leicester or Ipswich so chances are whoever comes in will have to work with him anyway.

[Turkish]

27 minutes ago, Dman said:

If Sheff Utd don't go up, we could very feasibly end up with AA & BBD in our front 3 next season. 

Archer too, tbf that's a pretty good front 3 for the championship. With Ross Stewart fit again in two weeks we will cook.

[ErwinK1961]

1 hour ago, Dman said:

It would. He's an absolutly awful footballer. 

3 goals in 15 games for Sheff Utd this season. Much better out there for the 10 or so million we could get for him. 

If he’s an absolutely awful footballer, how would we get £10m for him?

[Dman]

42 minutes ago, ErwinK1961 said:

If he’s an absolutely awful footballer, how would we get £10m for him?

Becuase that is the fee that Sheff Utd supposedly agreed to buy him for upon promotion. 

[revolution saint]

6 minutes ago, Dman said:

Becuase that is the fee that Sheff Utd supposedly agreed to buy him for upon promotion. 

Yeah, I'd take that.  He's probably capable of scoring goals for us next season but personally I've been really disappointed with him.  Another who apparently is better out wide but has no way of getting past a player, no tricks and no pace. 

Squad needs a shake up and I'd like to see us with some fresh options up front.  A decent striker makes such a difference so take the money and give the new manager a chance to bring his own choice in.

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

Yeah, I'd take that.  He's probably capable of scoring goals for us next season but personally I've been really disappointed with him.  Another who apparently is better out wide but has no way of getting past a player, no tricks and no pace. 

Squad needs a shake up and I'd like to see us with some fresh options up front.  A decent striker makes such a difference so take the money and give the new manager a chance to bring his own choice in.

Richard Kone is the one we should go for IMO.