Saints 1-2 Grimsby: Match Thread

[SotonianWill]

1 minute ago, Mr Nimbus said:

I should have known that Lyanco would do something as reckless as what he ended up doing. 

same can be said about CC. problem is we have two lemons at cb and when paired together it’s bound to be trouble. 

lyanco: headbutt vs arsenal, handball today

CC: Newcastle incident, Grimsby incident.

these are all out of nothing which makes it even more frustrating. 

[Mr Nimbus]

1 minute ago, SotonianWill said:

same can be said about CC. problem is we have two lemons at cb and when paired together it’s bound to be trouble. 

lyanco: headbutt vs arsenal, handball today

CC: Newcastle incident, Grimsby incident.

these are all out of nothing which makes it even more frustrating. 

I disliked Nathan Jones as much as the next fella, but even he identified that we do "stupid things" which has cost us so many times this season. He did continue to pick those players though which didn't help.

[JRM]

4 minutes ago, warsash saint said:

Did i dream it or did the Grimsby keeper have NO saves to make ???

He had a couple but very little of real proper goal scoring chances 

Stats don't make good reading 

[badgerx16]

9 minutes ago, SotonianWill said:

because they don’t have electricity or screens in grimsby

You do understand that cup games only use VAR when played at Premier League grounds ?

[SotonianWill]

3 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

You do understand that cup games only use VAR when played at Premier League grounds ?

it was a joke

[Captain Jack]

I am trying to help KWP think of some of the positives he talked about, and the major one I can think of is that he won't have to listen to the annoying song about Ruben Selles winning the FA Cup anymore!

[Maury Dyer]

At least Ralph kept us in the Prem, even without all these buy ins.

Who was who said, concerning Ralph going, 'be careful what you wish for'.

Or is it the can't be arsed players ??.

[obelisk]

2 minutes ago, Maury Dyer said:

At least Ralph kept us in the Prem, even without all these buy ins.

Who was who said, concerning Ralph going, 'be careful what you wish for'.

Or is it the can't be arsed players ??.

Is that the Ralph who had Saints 90th out of 92 teams during 2022?

[malcolm waldron]

Can someone help me out here.  Was the WWE forearm smash by the beardy geezer in the first half on Moussa in the box?  I'm guessing not hence no VAR review.  But that seemed a far worse foul then the CC faint slap and yet no action taken.  Why?  Referee and assistant unsighted or just lulled into this one's all about Grimsby narrative.  Don't get me started on the assault on KWP's head....

[Saint Fan CaM]

1 hour ago, Pamplemousse said:

Does that mean we're gonna win the cup in two seasons then?

Yep. The Johnstons Paint Trophy. 😜

[BotleySaint]

3 minutes ago, malcolm waldron said:

Can someone help me out here.  Was the WWE forearm smash by the beardy geezer in the first half on Moussa in the box?  I'm guessing not hence no VAR review.  But that seemed a far worse foul then the CC faint slap and yet no action taken.  Why?  Referee and assistant unsighted or just lulled into this one's all about Grimsby narrative.  Don't get me started on the assault on KWP's head....

In general I agree with you. The two VAR calls to get Grimsby goals took a long time to decide. But none of the fouls on us were looked at. Definitely felt a sense that the officials were buying into cup shock narrative.

But it ought not to have mattered. A Premier league team should have enough quality to beat a mid table League 2 side.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

6 minutes ago, malcolm waldron said:

Can someone help me out here.  Was the WWE forearm smash by the beardy geezer in the first half on Moussa in the box?  I'm guessing not hence no VAR review.  But that seemed a far worse foul then the CC faint slap and yet no action taken.  Why?  Referee and assistant unsighted or just lulled into this one's all about Grimsby narrative.  Don't get me started on the assault on KWP's head....

We shouldn't need to rely on good or bad officiating to beat a league 2 team at home. The performance was absolutely abysmal by a so called Premier league team. 

[LegalEagle]

10 minutes ago, Maury Dyer said:

At least Ralph kept us in the Prem, even without all these buy ins.

Who was who said, concerning Ralph going, 'be careful what you wish for'.

Or is it the can't be arsed players ??.

The whole of this season’s shit show can be traced back to last summer. The board made three huge gaffs. Firstly, they should have got rid of Ralph. Secondly, they should have bought a striker who scores goals. Thirdly, Romeu should have either been persuaded to stay one more season or he should have been properly replaced. In my view it’s as simple as that. Those three actions would have resulted in this season being very different. It was obvious to the majority of fans that Ralph had run his race by the end of last season but the board couldn’t see it. They should pay for that now with their heads.

[badgerx16]

34 minutes ago, SotonianWill said:

it was a joke

Oh, like our team ?

Sorry, after last night humour is extremely difficult to detect and appreciate.

Edited 2 March, 2023 by badgerx16

[Wurzel]

9 hours ago, trousers said:

I agree it was a clear penalty but, as you say, given it was clear on the TV replays, why on Earth did it take the officials 4 minutes to see the blindingly obvious?

 

I had the dubious benefit of only watching 5 minutes either side of half time. They didn't . they took abot 3 minutes deciding if there was offside in the build up before even looking at the handball. Way too long, there needs to be a 30 second limit.

2nd penalty I've only seen once but as I saw it it wasn't a foul so could only have been violent conduct in the ref's opinion so why no red card as well?

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, saintwbu said:

I get the desire to pin all blame on the players (rightly so) after that absolute shit show. But we just saw probably the worst penalty decision you’ll ever seen, and you will never see one like it again. The ref is lucky no one cares about us, including our own fans, because that would be getting major heat if it was someone else. 

The was another weird one quite a while ago when a player picked up a coin that was on the pitch and tossed it back into the crowd. It was considered violent conduct and he was sent off. Was it Liverpool at the Dell?

[malcolm waldron]

4 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

We shouldn't need to rely on good or bad officiating to beat a league 2 team at home. The performance was absolutely abysmal by a so called Premier league team. 

Oh i agree completely.  I'm just wondering why the double standards on the fouls.

My frustration is mainly on how massively predictable and slow we are moving the ball forwards.  Leeds I thought gave us a lesson on this at the weekend, and no doubt Leicester will too.   To not be able to do so against a L2 side is unforgivable. 

Anyway, back to the ref last night......  

[Whitey Grandad]

15 minutes ago, malcolm waldron said:

Can someone help me out here.  Was the WWE forearm smash by the beardy geezer in the first half on Moussa in the box?  I'm guessing not hence no VAR review.  But that seemed a far worse foul then the CC faint slap and yet no action taken.  Why?  Referee and assistant unsighted or just lulled into this one's all about Grimsby narrative.  Don't get me started on the assault on KWP's head....

Yep, well inside.Over on our right and a couple of yards inside the area. Would somebody please explain to me how a tap on the back is worth a penalty yet that assault wasn’t? It was deliberate and above neck height. Ought to have been a red card.

[Whitey Grandad]

The game turned on that awful miss by Mara in first half stoppage time.

[Lighthouse]

1 hour ago, saintwbu said:

I get the desire to pin all blame on the players (rightly so) after that absolute shit show. But we just saw probably the worst penalty decision you’ll ever seen, and you will never see one like it again. The ref is lucky no one cares about us, including our own fans, because that would be getting major heat if it was someone else. 

I genuinely don't know which one you mean as they were both very obviously fouls. Lyanco threw himself at the ball and hit it with his arm, never in a million years was that ball to hand. DCC hit someone, how hard is irrelevant. It reminds me a bit of when everyone was blaming Ronaldo for Rooney getting set off at the 2006 WC.

[Charlie Wayman]

34 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

You do understand that cup games only use VAR when played at Premier League grounds ?

It's about time all FL grounds were equipped with VAR. How fair is is that FA Cup matches can be subjected to different levels of scrutiny just because some have VAR and others do not? This is case where the LCD should apply and VAR switched off.

Theo's goal was a great goal and would (and should) have stood had the match been played at Grimsby. So we get penalised because we have higher tech. Similarly neither of their dubious penalties would have been given, even the ref couldn't make up his mind in real time.

This is not straw clutching it is a genuine concern that the the playing field is not level for FA Cup matches.

[aintforever]

Just now, Charlie Wayman said:

It's about time all FL grounds were equipped with VAR. How fair is is that FA Cup matches can be subjected to different levels of scrutiny just because some have VAR and others do not? This is case where the LCD should apply and VAR switched off.

Theo's goal was a great goal and would (and should) have stood had the match been played at Grimsby. So we get penalised because we have higher tech. Similarly neither of their dubious penalties would have been given, even the ref couldn't make up his mind in real time.

This is not straw clutching it is a genuine concern that the the playing field is not level for FA Cup matches.

I don't buy that, it was the same for both teams so is perfectly fair. VAR could quite easily have awarded us two penalties if Grimsby had two thick tossers playing at centre back like we had.

 

[badgerx16]

1 minute ago, Charlie Wayman said:

It's about time all FL grounds were equipped with VAR. How fair is is that FA Cup matches can be subjected to different levels of scrutiny just because some have VAR and others do not? This is case where the LCD should apply and VAR switched off.

Theo's goal was a great goal and would (and should) have stood had the match been played at Grimsby. So we get penalised because we have higher tech. Similarly neither of their dubious penalties would have been given, even the ref couldn't make up his mind in real time.

This is not straw clutching it is a genuine concern that the the playing field is not level for FA Cup matches.

I agree. I actually think, ironically, that it works against lower league sides who are not used to playing with the greater level of official scrutiny.

[cloggy saint]

I can't be the only one who finds this a bit funny? If you can't be good then be absolute dog shit, mediocrity is boring.

[Charlie Wayman]

3 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

I genuinely don't know which one you mean as they were both very obviously fouls. Lyanco threw himself at the ball and hit it with his arm, never in a million years was that ball to hand. DCC hit someone, how hard is irrelevant. It reminds me a bit of when everyone was blaming Ronaldo for Rooney getting set off at the 2006 WC.

No they weren't! We all see things differently. In real time and I was watching neither incident was clear and obvious. The ref seemed to ignore the fact that the Grimsby bloke hit DCC in the back with his arm causing DCC to retaliate. Lots around me thought Lyanco had got his head on the ball not his arm.

 

[Lighthouse]

3 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

The ref seemed to ignore the fact that the Grimsby bloke hit DCC in the back with his arm

No he didn’t.

3 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Lots around me thought Lyanco had got his head on the ball not his arm.

They were wrong.

[East Kent Saint]

20 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

I genuinely don't know which one you mean as they were both very obviously fouls. Lyanco threw himself at the ball and hit it with his arm, never in a million years was that ball to hand. DCC hit someone, how hard is irrelevant. It reminds me a bit of when everyone was blaming Ronaldo for Rooney getting set off at the 2006 WC.

Ronaldo giving the wink to show his acting had paid off caused the general ill feeling I think !

[rallyboy]

Those two challenges to the head would even be red cards in rugby, but neither were even a foul.

I saw neither at the time, but the TV pix are very clear, so VAR saw both and did nothing.

As for the slap - both players pull shirts, attacker commits first offence by pushing defender in the back, defender slaps him in return...penalty? 🤡

If that level of contact is now a penalty, we'll be seeing one given before EVERY corner or attacking free-kick is even taken, a keeper pushing someone away, a player putting his arm around, any minor touch has to be a penalty?

Nah, it was just a ridiculous misinterpretation of the rules by a conveniently-inconsistent referee keen to craft his special place in FA Cup history.

Should his career survive this debacle, let's see what he gives against Man Utd at Old Trafford when the same scenario arises.

 

 

 

 

[saintant]

10 hours ago, VectisSaint said:

The first wasn't blatant. But it was clear on replay on TV, and with VAR that is what matters. Lyanco was a touch unlucky, he seemed to misjudge his header, but then he didn't actually need to do anything at all, he's just a clumsy poor footballer. As for the DCC penalty of course the Grimsby player went down like a sack of spuds, made the most of it, but who wouldn't. You can't slap someone in the back, whether you are provoked or not. DCC has clearly shown that he doesn't have the temperament for our game, that's why he was red carded against Newcastle, he is a complete and utter liability. There was no way that should not have been a penalty, he was very lucky not to have been red carded. Still he did redeem himself slightly by scoring, but only slightly. His other effort was unbelievably bad.

Trying to pretend that we lost that game because of two dubious decisions is laughable. We were dire, I have never seen us as pathetic as we were tonight, we were better when we lost 9-0 (both times). Mara, Orsic, Aribo, Edozie, Armstrong really have no case for being in a PL team (not to mention DCC and Lyanco). KWP was disappointingly ineffective, Charly gave the ball away too often, Djenepo tried hard and at least seemed interested and up for a game, Perraud tries hard and gives his all but overall is not very good. JWP made a difference when he came on, but actually did a lot of chasing after shadows, because no one else was trying. Felt a bit sorry for Walcott, that was a very well taken goal, and showed that he has some class, the margin of offside was miniscule but nevertheless it was offside. I actually thought that Bazunu might have got to one or other of the pens, certainly more likely than McCarthy who never saves penalties. 

I think tonight made me finally think I have had it with football, the game has been ruined, my club has been ruined, but I suppose I will tune in again on Saturday to go through the whole depressing process again, ad nauseum until the end of the season. 

You can condone him going down like a sack of spuds but this typifies everything that is wrong with football. Referees clearly see a player fall to the ground as if shot when the reality is they've been barely touched - instead of dealing with the cheat and giving a yellow card they penalise the other side and give a penalty. Imagine that happening in rugby - the player concerned would be laughed at and rightly so. Football needs a good clean up from top to bottom and people condoning these things as though they are part and parcel of the game and ok are part of the problem.

[trousers]

38 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

DCC hit someone

Shouldn't he have been sent off in that case?

[trousers]

1 hour ago, Maury Dyer said:

At least Ralph kept us in the Prem, even without all these buy ins.

Who was who said, concerning Ralph going, 'be careful what you wish for'.

Classic non-sequitur territory. Just because something happened in the past doesn't mean that it'll happen again in the future. 

I was a fully paid-up member of the Ralph "cult" (chortle) but even I could see that his time had naturally come to an end. 

Edited 2 March, 2023 by trousers

[OldNick]

Carr made a flick out at the opposing player who pushed him in the back, when he had a player absolutely mocking him/us he just looked at him and walked on. If he had lamped him at the time I'm sure the majority of fans would have made him a cult hero.

[saintant]

2 hours ago, saintwbu said:

I get the desire to pin all blame on the players (rightly so) after that absolute shit show. But we just saw probably the worst penalty decision you’ll ever seen, and you will never see one like it again. The ref is lucky no one cares about us, including our own fans, because that would be getting major heat if it was someone else. 

This is spot on but people on here are saying it was ok. That would never be given against Man City, Man Utd or Liverpool.This is blatant bias by a very sub-standard referee and should be looked at.

[saintant]

1 hour ago, SotonianWill said:

Can we vote for twat of the match?

Yes it was clearly the referee.

[Whitey Grandad]

48 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

I genuinely don't know which one you mean as they were both very obviously fouls. Lyanco threw himself at the ball and hit it with his arm, never in a million years was that ball to hand. DCC hit someone, how hard is irrelevant. It reminds me a bit of when everyone was blaming Ronaldo for Rooney getting set off at the 2006 WC.

We disagree. The ball hit Lyanco’s arm, not the other way round. It was clearly accidental, Lyanco could never do anything deliberately. Until a couple of years ago that would never have been given, and rightly so.

If you really think that DCC ‘hit’ Orsi then we have a big problem. On the same point, what did you think of the forearm smash on Djenepo on 38:35 minutes?

[Whitey Grandad]

7 minutes ago, saintant said:

This is spot on but people on here are saying it was ok. That would never be given against Man City, Man Utd or Liverpool.This is blatant bias by a very sub-standard referee and should be looked at.

Who was in in the Man Utd game who juggled the ball three times in their penalty area?

[saintant]

40 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

No he didn’t.

They were wrong.

Yes he did.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

The biggest mistake in the summer was not signing a leader on the pitch. Last night we so lacked direction, organisation and most importantly a pair of bollocks. Someone in the mould of Jimmy Case. 

[S-Clarke]

3 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

The biggest mistake in the summer was not signing a leader on the pitch. Last night we so lacked direction, organisation and most importantly a pair of bollocks. Someone in the mould of Jimmy Case. 

I don't think we've had a leader for years, certainly not since we lost the likes of Fonte.

For all JWP has done for us I still do not see him as an onfield leader, he's the sort who needs guidence himself. 

[Chris cooper]

9 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Who was in in the Man Utd game who juggled the ball three times in their penalty area?

Mctominey

[saintant]

3 hours ago, Shroppie said:

I thought the same about both VAR offside decisions. Seems that me it's all too easy to engineer the lines by choosing one frame forwards or backwards, especially when it's very close. 

In other games recently we've seen decisions from VAR that looked very strange, including a Rashford goal at the weekend, and it's hard not to think outcomes are being manipulated.

Walcott's goal should have been allowed and should not even have been looked at by VAR. The directive is that VAR looks at clear and obvious errors - there was nothing clear or obvious, it looked a goal in normal time and should have been allowed with no need for VAR to check. Even when we saw the stupid drawn lines it still wasn't clear or obvious based on when the ball was kicked. Decisions that close should always go to the attacking side - VAR can look but if they see it's that tight they shouldn't pipe up. It's for CLEAR AND OBVIOUS errors. Stop using it for every goal scored.

[saintwbu]

1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

I genuinely don't know which one you mean as they were both very obviously fouls. Lyanco threw himself at the ball and hit it with his arm, never in a million years was that ball to hand. DCC hit someone, how hard is irrelevant. It reminds me a bit of when everyone was blaming Ronaldo for Rooney getting set off at the 2006 WC.

I guarantee you will not find me another example of a penalty given in England where two players are having an altercation nowhere near the ball, whilst the ball is in the goalkeepers arms, and one of those players gets a penalty. 

[Lighthouse]

5 minutes ago, saintant said:

Walcott's goal should have been allowed and should not even have been looked at by VAR. The directive is that VAR looks at clear and obvious errors - there was nothing clear or obvious, it looked a goal in normal time and should have been allowed with no need for VAR to check. Even when we saw the stupid drawn lines it still wasn't clear or obvious based on when the ball was kicked. Decisions that close should always go to the attacking side - VAR can look but if they see it's that tight they shouldn't pipe up. It's for CLEAR AND OBVIOUS errors. Stop using it for every goal scored.

Apart from the fact that it was clearly and obviously offside?

[Appy]

9 minutes ago, saintant said:

Walcott's goal should have been allowed and should not even have been looked at by VAR. The directive is that VAR looks at clear and obvious errors - there was nothing clear or obvious, it looked a goal in normal time and should have been allowed with no need for VAR to check. Even when we saw the stupid drawn lines it still wasn't clear or obvious based on when the ball was kicked. Decisions that close should always go to the attacking side - VAR can look but if they see it's that tight they shouldn't pipe up. It's for CLEAR AND OBVIOUS errors. Stop using it for every goal scored.

It’s got absolutely nothing to do with clear and obvious when it comes to offsides, it’s literally offside or it’s not, and Walcott clearly was. 

[sadoldgit]

38 minutes ago, trousers said:

Shouldn't he have been sent off in that case?

It was more of a petulant shove/slap than an attempted punch but if that had happened anywhere else on the pitch he would have given a foul and a yellow too. Yes the guy made a meal of it (don’t agree with the commentary team that he was entitled to go down to draw the officials attention to it - he made a meal of it) but what on earth did DCC think he was doing? 

Having watched it again several times this morning though I would argue that the ref should have blown up for a foul for Grimsby outside the box as DCC had hold of his shirt collar for some time whilst running back towards the goal. I would have given the free kick and booked DCC for the slap.

Once again though we have lost a game through the initial team selection. I get the argument that the team, on paper, should be enough to beat Grimsby but we all know about cup banana skins. Making 9 changes was never going to help a cohesive team performance. Make a couple of changes but keep the main balance and then give some of the fringe players some game time if you must once the game is secure. Now we have even more players with low morale and go into the Leicester game with even less confidence when a win last night would have least have given the squad a lift and maybe would have provided a goal or two for our two new main strikers. Selles seems like a nice bloke and it is good to hear that the players like him, but I would prefer a manager that the players feared and respected and was prepared to do what was needed to win the game rather than to give people a game in order to keep them happy. They are professional footballers. If they want to start matches they should put the effort in training and then take their chance when selected. Last night KWP, Lavia, Djenepo, JWP and Walcott all looked the part. The rest were poor, but then how often has this line up taken to the pitch?

[Lee On Solent Saint]

26 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

We disagree. The ball hit Lyanco’s arm, not the other way round. It was clearly accidental, Lyanco could never do anything deliberately. Until a couple of years ago that would never have been given, and rightly so.

If you really think that DCC ‘hit’ Orsi then we have a big problem. On the same point, what did you think of the forearm smash on Djenepo on 38:35 minutes?

DCC is an experienced Croatian international who has played at Euro's and World Cups. Regardless of what you think of the penalty award, why the fuck did he even give the referee a decision to make by making contact with their player. 

[Lighthouse]

36 minutes ago, trousers said:

Shouldn't he have been sent off in that case?

Yes, I genuinely thought there was going to be a red card in that too.

24 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

We disagree. The ball hit Lyanco’s arm, not the other way round. It was clearly accidental, Lyanco could never do anything deliberately. Until a couple of years ago that would never have been given, and rightly so.

If you really think that DCC ‘hit’ Orsi then we have a big problem. On the same point, what did you think of the forearm smash on Djenepo on 38:35 minutes?

He made a very deliberate movement to intercept the cross and hit the ball with his arm, which was raised at shoulder height. The fact that he was trying to head it is irrelevant, all that proves is that Lyanco is useless.

He did hit him, it quite obviously, litterally did happen. I can't put it any more simply than that. Again, how hard is irrelevant, this isn't UFC. You aren't being graded on how hard you can whack someone. It's against the rules and it's a foul.

Djenepo was outside the box and was not a red card offence, so VAR didn't look at it. Arguably a free kick and booking but that's all.

22 minutes ago, saintant said:

Yes he did.

He had his hand on his back at one point as they were both grabbing each others shirts and fighting for the ball. Orsi didn't hit him. The fact that DCC couldn't maintain his composure against a team fighting relegation in League 2 is pathetic.

3 minutes ago, saintwbu said:

I guarantee you will not find me another example of a penalty given in England where two players are having an altercation nowhere near the ball, whilst the ball is in the goalkeepers arms, and one of those players gets a penalty. 

It's a foul in the penalty area. The fact that other referees might not have given it is irrelevant. It was a penalty, DCC was an absolute muppet.

[Dirkdiggler]

10 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Apart from the fact that it was clearly and obviously offside?

Tbh it does depend on when they stop frames on the video. It’s milliseconds either way. It certainly wasn’t clear and obvious as per original VAR directive. 
the 1st goal disallowed would’ve been a case for clear and obvious if not flagged by the linesman. 

[saintant]

21 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Apart from the fact that it was clearly and obviously offside?

So why did neither the referee nor his assistant give offside in real time?

[saintant]

19 minutes ago, Appy said:

It’s got absolutely nothing to do with clear and obvious when it comes to offsides, it’s literally offside or it’s not, and Walcott clearly was. 

Look up the directives for VAR - VAR can only intervene when it's a clear and obvious error.