was Jan shafted???

[CB Fry]

Still doesn't add up, Wotte has stated if the club had picked him 3 years ago he'd of taken the job. Lowe has gone on record saying he wanted Wotte to take the job, so why, 3 years down the line not give him the job? Why employ him as reserve manager and employ a complete no one as head coach. The money thing does not add up either, if Lowe had just appointed Jan then yes, ok, but to employ both don't do it!

 

 

Well, it does add up. Three years ago was three years ago.

 

Jan got the job, now Wotte has got the job.

 

What doesn't add up is people making out Lowe gave Jan the job with every intention of sacking him a few months down the line so he could give Wotte the job, "the man he wanted all along".

 

It's an incredibly attractive conspiracy theory until you realise it is utter, utter pointless nonsense.

[Channon's Sideburns]

I think that following Wotte's comments regarding 'not being stupid enough not to change the formation if you are not winning..' then if I was Jan, I'd think I'd been shafted...

 

So, no-one had a word with him about the tactics and just let it carry on?????

 

Can't see it.

 

That would mean either -

 

a) They all said nothing and wanted him to fail; or

b) They said something to him and he wouldn't listen.

 

Christ knows...in fact I think he would agree that 442 was the preferred option.

[um pahars]

Well, it does add up. Three years ago was three years ago.

 

Jan got the job, now Wotte has got the job.

 

What doesn't add up is people making out Lowe gave Jan the job with every intention of sacking him a few months down the line so he could give Wotte the job, "the man he wanted all along".

 

It's an incredibly attractive conspiracy theory until you realise it is utter, utter pointless nonsense.

 

Absolutely.

 

The appointment of Wotte is nothing more than trying to mop up the fcking awful mess of an appointment that Poortvliet was.

 

No more and no less than a damage limitation exercise. If Lowe wanted Wotte in place fromt eh start, then he's the type of guy who would have done that from the off.

 

He didn't because Jan was his first choice and that choice turned out to be a spectacular failure.

[St. Jason]

Well, it does add up. Three years ago was three years ago.

 

Jan got the job, now Wotte has got the job.

 

What doesn't add up is people making out Lowe gave Jan the job with every intention of sacking him a few months down the line so he could give Wotte the job, "the man he wanted all along".

 

It's an incredibly attractive conspiracy theory until you realise it is utter, utter pointless nonsense.

 

No cb, please answer the point, forget conspiracy. Why would Lowe place a man (Wotte) as reserve/academy manager, a man he wanted as manager only 3 years ago? If Wotte was Cruyff or Rickhards (sp?) assistant I could understand it, but the set up Lowe brought in would be like Stuart Pearce being Ian Bairds assistant!

[CB Fry]

No cb, please answer the point, forget conspiracy. Why would Lowe place a man (Wotte) as reserve/academy manager, a man he wanted as manager only 3 years ago? If Wotte was Cruyff or Rickhards (sp?) assistant I could understand it, but the set up Lowe brought in would be like Stuart Pearce being Ian Bairds assistant!

 

Don't be silly - Wotte and Jan are both nobodies, its not like Wotte is/was head and shoulders above Jan.

 

Wotte's recent history is as an academy director, so appointing him a an academy director is pretty sensible isn't it*?

 

Just stop going on about three years ago. Three years ago Phil Brown was washed up as a football manager.

 

We appointed Jan, now we've got Wotte. Both unqualified, both nobodies, neither would get anywhere near a job at any other club in the English league system.

 

Stop making out Wotte to be some managerial giant.

 

*sensible in the context that the entire Dutch project is lunacy.

 

No cb, please answer the point, forget conspiracy

Well, sorry, you started it. "Jan was set up for a fall from the start". Re-read your first post on the thread.

 

How could he be, as you've cast Wotte as the most over qualified assistant manager in history? Surely that's pretty helpful and hardly setting someone up for a fall.

 

Basically, what I am saying is the things you are grumbling about don't add up.

 

If Wotte was so fantastic, then surely Jan was at a fantastic advantage in terms of help?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 27 January, 2009 by CB Fry

[St. Jason]

 

Stop making out Wotte to be some managerial giant.

 

*sensible in the context that the entire Dutch project is lunacy.

 

 

Mate, honestly you couldn't be more wrong, Wotte does nothing for me at all, but when you compare the pairs record there is no comparison. The only reason I keep harping back to 3 years ago is because I can't work out whats changed in that time, Wotte is still Wotte, his record is still head and shoulders better than Jans. If Jan was some 37 year old just starting out I could sort of understand it, young man running around with a carming experienced head to fall back on!

[St. Jason]

Don't be silly - Wotte and Jan are both nobodies, its not like Wotte is/was head and shoulders above Jan.

 

Wotte's recent history is as an academy director, so appointing him a an academy director is pretty sensible isn't it*?

 

Just stop going on about three years ago. Three years ago Phil Brown was washed up as a football manager.

 

We appointed Jan, now we've got Wotte. Both unqualified, both nobodies, neither would get anywhere near a job at any other club in the English league system.

 

Stop making out Wotte to be some managerial giant.

 

*sensible in the context that the entire Dutch project is lunacy.

 

Well, sorry, you started it. "Jan was set up for a fall from the start". Re-read your first post on the thread.

 

How could he be, as you've cast Wotte as the most over qualified assistant manager in history? Surely that's pretty helpful and hardly setting someone up for a fall.

 

Basically, what I am saying is the things you are grumbling about don't add up.

 

If Wotte was so fantastic, then surely Jan was at a fantastic advantage in terms of help?

 

 

 

 

 

 

What like when Redknapp went to help out Rix or Venables helping out Robson??

 

Look mate, I'm not sayinf Wotte is anything to write home about, i'd never heard of either of them till thay came here.

 

I'm questioning Lowe. Think about it for a bit, if Wotte is so highly regarded by Lowe, would you (as Lowe) bring him in when it was so bad, knowing he'd have to let everyone earning more than £15 a day go. Atleast this way Wotte can't fail, if we're relegated its Jans & Lowes fault, if we survive Wotte's a hero!

[CB Fry]

Mate, honestly you couldn't be more wrong, Wotte does nothing for me at all, but when you compare the pairs record there is no comparison. The only reason I keep harping back to 3 years ago is because I can't work out whats changed in that time, Wotte is still Wotte, his record is still head and shoulders better than Jans. If Jan was some 37 year old just starting out I could sort of understand it, young man running around with a carming experienced head to fall back on!

 

 

I really don't get what you are so upset about. Jan isn't/wasn't experienced in this division regardless of age, so having Wotte to help had to be a good thing. He was the metaphorical 37 year old running around. He didn't have a bloody clue.

 

And Jan, as a more tracksuit manager, was the logical choice for Head Coach, and Wotte, with his recent history as academy director was the ideal choice for academy director*.

 

Both appointments were retarded, so I don't know why you are getting quite so upset about the intracacies of it.

 

And, you started the thread about Jan being "set up to fail" which is just conspiracy ********.

 

 

*again, pedants, in the context of stupidly appointing them in the first place.

[St. Jason]

I really don't get what you are so upset about. Jan isn't/wasn't experienced in this division regardless of age, so having Wotte to help had to be a good thing. He was the metaphorical 37 year old running around. He didn't have a bloody clue.

 

And Jan, as a more tracksuit manager, was the logical choice for Head Coach, and Wotte, with his recent history as academy director was the ideal choice for academy director*.

 

Both appointments were retarded, so I don't know why you are getting quite so upset about the intracacies of it.

 

And, you started the thread about Jan being "set up to fail" which is just conspiracy ********.

 

 

*again, pedants, in the context of stupidly appointing them in the first place.

I agree with most you say, espcially about them both being useless. I'd of never appointed either of them, the post is "was Jan Shafted" I still stand my the question!

 

I mostly agree with your "Both appointments were retarded" Lowe is a Budgie!

[CB Fry]

I agree with most you say, espcially about them both being useless. I'd of never appointed either of them, the post is "was Jan Shafted" I still stand my the question!

 

I mostly agree with your "Both appointments were retarded" Lowe is a Budgie!

 

 

Amen.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

He bloody should have been....

[corsacar saint]

Lowe with his total lack of football knowledge has messed up big time. Personally I do not

think either of the two dutchmen are up to the job. So to me that makes the question irrelevant.

[ottery st mary]

Dean Gorre should have a go in Feb...surely. I wonder if Kim was there tonight encouraging the team...Funny if it was Kim who made Wotte change his tactics second Half.....No maybe not...Actually it was our supporters at the game advising Wotte very clearly what they think he should do.

[Gordon Mockles]

So why would Wotte take the job as assistant to someone not as good as him on less money than his market value?

 

This is just conspiracy nonsense using the oldest conspiracy theory trick in the book - wait for stuff to happen then fit the conspiracy around it going backwards.

 

Jan got the job to coach the first team, Wotte came in to oversee and assist, Jan was failing and had to go before someone from the Northam knocked him out, now Wotte has the job.

 

It's not a conspiracy. It's one rubbish manager being replaced, for the sake of continuity with another rubbish manager. Oh well.

 

Maybe but don't always be so sure of yourself. Wotte was to be brought in before so I find it suspicious, that's all, that he's in the position now. Maybe if we were doing better, he'd have come in on more money but the timing was not right post Pearson cos they peddled the line that the Dutch duo were cheaper. Do you still believe all these coaches are cheaper? I don't!

 

I also question the responses I've heard from Wotte. Especially as he really made the point that he didn't want the job. Maybe a bit too much, over-emphasizing the point. Hmmmm?? Maybe I've heard so much of Lowe's bullsh*t, manipulating and twisting that I no longer trust anything from the club but most of what I expected, and worse, has sadly come home to roost. I just cannot trust anything from the club with that c*nt in charge!

Edited 27 January, 2009 by Gordon Mockles

[Gordon Mockles]

Still doesn't add up, Wotte has stated if the club had picked him 3 years ago he'd of taken the job. Lowe has gone on record saying he wanted Wotte to take the job, so why, 3 years down the line not give him the job? Why employ him as reserve manager and employ a complete no one as head coach. The money thing does not add up either, if Lowe had just appointed Jan then yes, ok, but to employ both don't do it!

 

That's kind of how I see it. Plus the Pearson money comment, which was b*llocks anyway!! Nigel just didn't fit the model in Lowe's deluded and cloudy head! Maybe cos someone else appointed him and Lowe's all about ego...and dare I say (I truly believe) revenge.

 

Ego - That much has been proved countless times.

 

Revenge - Conjecture but why go skiing during this time, why the AGM fiasco and WHY the big F*CK off to Crouch (i.e. "put up the 6 million yourself, f*ck your proposal and I'll appoint Wotte!")

[CB Fry]

Maybe but don't always be so sure of yourself. Wotte was to be brought in before so I find it suspicious, that's all, that he's in the position now. Maybe if we were doing better, he'd have come in on more money but the timing was not right post Pearson cos they peddled the line that the Dutch duo were cheaper. Do you still believe all these coaches are cheaper? I don't!

 

I also question the responses I've heard from Wotte. Especially as he really made the point that he didn't want the job. Maybe a bit too much, over-emphasizing the point. Hmmmm?? Maybe I've heard so much of Lowe's bullsh*t, manipulating and twisting that I no longer trust anything from the club but most of what I expected, and worse, has sadly come home to roost. I just cannot trust anything from the club with that c*nt in charge!

 

 

Well I am pretty sure of this.

 

This theory that we couldn't quite afford Wotte as manager so we paid him as assistant and then promoted him that you are trying to peddle is nonsense.

 

If Jan wasn't Jan and was, say, Steve Cotteril, or a visibly English "compromise candidate" then your conspiracy might have some legs, but what you are suggesting is conspiracy purely for the sake of conspiracy.

 

If at the start of the season, we couldn't afford Wotte and Jan with Wotte as manager, but Lowe really really wanted Wotte as manager, then why didn't he just employ Wotte as manager with an even cheaper assistant?

 

It's not like the fanbase would have risen up and said "but where is Jan Poortvliet? you can't have Wotte without Poortvliet". They were all complete unknowns.

 

Basically your conspiracy theory doesn't add up at all. It's a "scheme" with absolutely no point to it whatsoever.

 

 

 

And don't try and twist things to suggest I think things you want me to think. We're not talking about Pearson here, and I was saying in June that we could afford Pearson, and we could and we still can now. From your post it looks like you at one point swallowed the Pearson lie, I neve did.