Elyounoussi

[LegalEagle]

5 hours ago, Charlie Wayman said:

How does a thread like this help the team or the player. With fans like the OP it is no surprise that the players couldn't care less whether they win or lose.

 

Based on your post Charlie, we might as well just scrap Saintsweb and all fans forums should be scrapped as well based on your logic. For all intents and purposes, those that attend matches pay the players wages. The players know when they enter football that they are up for criticism - part of the game. Always has been and always will be. You will remember the Dell and how players got dogs abuse constantly if they were crap. The only difference in those days was they got it straight at them being so close to the pitch - not from reading a computer screen. Ely and the game now is no different.

[NewYorkSaint]

I think he prob puts more heart into training than any player other than JWP. And this is why managers support him. For our high-press strategy he plays an important role and can keep high levels of energy throughout the game.  He's not always rubbish. There was one game within the last year when I think he was most peoples MotM.   But I agree with others that his repeated failures with the final ball in and around the penalty area is disqualifying. We have several better choices.

[Saint Garrett]

I don't mind him as a squad player, or when we play the bigger teams away from home, but you know you need 3 more attacking players on the pitch than him. For me, I see him as the "Steven Davis" role, but he's not as good.

The more frustrating thing is his passing isn't great, so even when we do get in decent areas he gives the ball away which is infuriating. It is a predicament about how far this club has fallen in quality, that he's starting for us, but I'm also not sure there are many other better options, especially it certain games. He's pretty reliable.

 

[Jack]

He can’t pass, run fast, keep the ball, cross or shoot, but he’ll track a player back into our own half (if he can keep up), definitely an asset and should start every game for me. 

[davefizzy14]

For me, Moi's best position is in a midfield three. He has always looked much better there. 

[S-Clarke]

10 hours ago, Saint Garrett said:

I don't mind him as a squad player, or when we play the bigger teams away from home, but you know you need 3 more attacking players on the pitch than him. For me, I see him as the "Steven Davis" role, but he's not as good.

The more frustrating thing is his passing isn't great, so even when we do get in decent areas he gives the ball away which is infuriating. It is a predicament about how far this club has fallen in quality, that he's starting for us, but I'm also not sure there are many other better options, especially it certain games. He's pretty reliable.

 

This is where I think we fall down - when we keep players like him as a 'squad player', because it just bulks the squad out with absolute crap. If he's not good enough to start for us then he's not good enough as a squad player either.

He's no where near Steven Davis, comparing those guys is like comparing Messi to Ali Dia. Light years apart. Davis could turn with the ball, run with the ball and most importantly pass it. All traits which are absent from Moi's game.

[Saint Garrett]

54 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

This is where I think we fall down - when we keep players like him as a 'squad player', because it just bulks the squad out with absolute crap. If he's not good enough to start for us then he's not good enough as a squad player either.

He's no where near Steven Davis, comparing those guys is like comparing Messi to Ali Dia. Light years apart. Davis could turn with the ball, run with the ball and most importantly pass it. All traits which are absent from Moi's game.

I compared him to Davis, because I meant hes the link between the "midfield" and the "attack", picking up the ball from JWP/Lavia, and playing that ball before the assist. Of course he is nowhere near as good as Davis, 

[austsaint]

40 minutes ago, Saint Garrett said:

I compared him to Davis, because I meant hes the link between the "midfield" and the "attack", picking up the ball from JWP/Lavia, and playing that ball before the assist. Of course he is nowhere near as good as Davis, 

You know in all of the talk about players like Elyounoussi, the weaknesses of our squad, the fragile spine, the players we haven't adequately replaced - Ings being the most recent.   Makes you realise how much we have missed Adam Lallana.   What a difference a player like him would make in a front four or slightly advanced of Lavia and JWP.  We haven't really had a creative attacking midfielder (like him) since he defected - although Lavia could easily play that role it's just that he's desperately needed elsewhere!

[pimpin4rizeal]

Does absolutely nothing, ghost of a player.. I’d prefer AA or Walcott even in the attacking 10  positions ..

when you see moi name on the team sheet you just know your gonna struggle to create anything 

[West end Saints]

For those slagging him off, compare your better options, over last couple of seasons with him here:

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/player-comparison

 

I'm not saying he is good enough, or we shouldn't look to improve on him, BUT, he has been he beats most of our other options on goals / assists, and is well ahead on winning the ball, aerial challenges, forward passes etc.

Certainly well ahead of Stu, who is no where near good enough to be a regular starter, AA, Djenepo, Walcott, Edozie. 

 

[Osvaldorama]

He’s shocking. I have seen better footballers on a Saturday team down the local park. 
 

problem is, the rest of our team is too. 

[sydney_saint]

9 hours ago, West end Saints said:

For those slagging him off, compare your better options, over last couple of seasons with him here:

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/player-comparison

 

I'm not saying he is good enough, or we shouldn't look to improve on him, BUT, he has been he beats most of our other options on goals / assists, and is well ahead on winning the ball, aerial challenges, forward passes etc.

Certainly well ahead of Stu, who is no where near good enough to be a regular starter, AA, Djenepo, Walcott, Edozie. 

 

 

Is he well ahead of Djenepo? For defending, we've conceded less goals with Djepeno, he's made more successful tackles and more blocks in less minutes. Defensively Elyounossi is far better in the air but I would hardly say that is well ahead overall defensively, and actually for that position further up the pitch, I would think tackles on the ground are more important. For attacking play, Djenepo shades it for minutes per goal and minutes per assist. Elyounoussi has far more through balls, but that doesn't tell the full story as we don't know the quality of those balls. I would also say Elyounoussi has an advantage as he starts more games, whilst Djenepo comes off the bench and has to get up to speed far more quickly. 

[Whitey Grandad]

53 minutes ago, sydney_saint said:

Is he well ahead of Djenepo? For defending, we've conceded less goals with Djepeno, he's made more successful tackles and more blocks in less minutes. Defensively Elyounossi is far better in the air but I would hardly say that is well ahead overall defensively, and actually for that position further up the pitch, I would think tackles on the ground are more important. For attacking play, Djenepo shades it for minutes per goal and minutes per assist. Elyounoussi has far more through balls, but that doesn't tell the full story as we don't know the quality of those balls. I would also say Elyounoussi has an advantage as he starts more games, whilst Djenepo comes off the bench and has to get up to speed far more quickly. 

I prefer Djenepo.

[pimpin4rizeal]

10 hours ago, West end Saints said:

For those slagging him off, compare your better options, over last couple of seasons with him here:

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/player-comparison

 

I'm not saying he is good enough, or we shouldn't look to improve on him, BUT, he has been he beats most of our other options on goals / assists, and is well ahead on winning the ball, aerial challenges, forward passes etc.

Certainly well ahead of Stu, who is no where near good enough to be a regular starter, AA, Djenepo, Walcott, Edozie. 

 

 

On the eye test stuey is light years ahead of moi.. stuey is one of our best ball carriers is intelligent can pop up with goals and is better with ball retention then moi .. over the last few years when fit he’s been one of our most important players 

I’ve never heard anyone compliment moi like he’s one of our key players 

[Saint86]

On 26/02/2023 at 19:50, West end Saints said:

Our two 'experienced' players in this area are neither good enough, we are getting no where near enough assists from them. For me, Ely offers more than Stu Armstrong, however we needed to upgrade both. 

 

 

I just can't agree with this. Stu is our best 10 by a long way - the issue is he isn't fit for whatever reason. He's able to hold onto and carry the ball, dribbles past players, links up well, and offers a goal threat.

Something which is actually quite obvious when looking through their comparative metrics (be it personal or team):

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/player-comparison

The only case you can perhaps make for Moi vs Stu, is maybe that he offers more defensively. But then when Stu's playing the team wins more, generates more chances, has more possession, keeps more clean sheets and returns more points - so by inspection there is less to do defensively. I.e. - picking players with no attacking threat who are worse in possession invites more pressure onto saints.

Edited 1 March, 2023 by Saint86

[Chez]

4 hours ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

On the eye test stuey is light years ahead of moi.. stuey is one of our best ball carriers, is intelligent and can pop up with goals

Just looking at last two Prem seasons:

Stuart Armstrong: 2 goals in 25 Prem games, 1 goal in 20 games

Eli: 4 goals in 30 games. 0 goals in 20 games

Djenepo: 0 in 12, 0 in 12

[Badger]

21 hours ago, davefizzy14 said:

For me, Moi's best position is in a midfield three. He has always looked much better there. 

For me, his best position was at Parkhead. 

[Saint Fan CaM]

21 hours ago, davefizzy14 said:

For me, Moi's best position is in another team. He has always looked much better there. 

There we go - fixed it for you. 😘 🤣

[West end Saints]

7 hours ago, Saint86 said:

I just can't agree with this. Stu is our best 10 by a long way - the issue is he isn't fit for whatever reason. He's able to hold onto and carry the ball, dribbles past players, links up well, and offers a goal threat.

Something which is actually quite obvious when looking through their comparative metrics (be it personal or team):

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/player-comparison

The only case you can perhaps make for Moi vs Stu, is maybe that he offers more defensively. But then when Stu's playing the team wins more, generates more chances, has more possession, keeps more clean sheets and returns more points - so by inspection there is less to do defensively. I.e. - picking players with no attacking threat who are worse in possession invites more pressure onto saints.

Just not true. 

Stu has odd good game. 

This season 1 goal, no assists. 

21/22

2 goals, no assists

 

For a No10 that is piss poor. 

He has probably, almost certainly directly led to more goals against in that time with giving the ball away in our half, or watching a play go by him. 

 

I agree he is more exciting and easier on the eye, but he is not the answer. 

 

Tbf, I don't think Ely is either, just don't think he is quite as bad as some on here make out, and do understand why 3 managers have picked him. 

Hopefully Orsic will settle and live up to our hopes as we need better

 

 

 

[trousers]

7 hours ago, Saint86 said:

Stu is our best 10 by a long way - the issue is he isn't fit for whatever reason.

 

3 minutes ago, West end Saints said:

Just not true. 

Stu has odd good game. 

This season 1 goal, no assists. 

21/22

2 goals, no assists
 

He was much better before he started having fitness issues two years ago. Definitely one of our best attacking midfielder if/when he gets back to pre-covid fitness levels. 

[Saint86]

1 hour ago, West end Saints said:

Just not true. 

Stu has odd good game. 

This season 1 goal, no assists. 

21/22

2 goals, no assists

 

For a No10 that is piss poor. 

He has probably, almost certainly directly led to more goals against in that time with giving the ball away in our half, or watching a play go by him. 

 

I agree he is more exciting and easier on the eye, but he is not the answer. 

 

Tbf, I don't think Ely is either, just don't think he is quite as bad as some on here make out, and do understand why 3 managers have picked him. 

Hopefully Orsic will settle and live up to our hopes as we need better

 

 

 

Looking at prem statistics (from the official website):

Stu has a minutes per goal ratio of 550 compared to Ely's 900+

He has a superior pass completion rate, 5 times as many touches from only twice as many games (or 3 times as many minutes), and ditto 5 times as many goals (15vs3)

9 clean sheets to Ely's 2.

59 interceptions to his 7

163 tackles to 27

71 clearances to 11

Stu also has a shooting success chance of 8% to Ely's 4%, which is even more notable given Armstrong shoots far more from outside the box than Ely, and on that note Stu has 6 goals from outside the box to Ely's 1. 

Most telling of all... El7 has missed 6 "big chances" to Stu's 7... despite playing a 3rd of his total minutes.

As the OP says, fans have their own views on different players, but I honestly cannot see a single metric where Ely seriously offers more than a fit Stu Armstrong 😅- which was your original point. We should be starting the likes of Theo and Edozi over moi.

 

Edited 1 March, 2023 by Saint86

[West end Saints]

Are you looking at the Stu of 3 years ago? Or the last two shit seasons

[Chez]

4 hours ago, West end Saints said:

Hopefully Orsic will settle and live up to our hopes as we need better

 

Isn't Orsic, basically just an Ely mark II?

[Dman]

Just now, Chez said:

Isn't Orsic, basically just an Ely mark II?

That’s kinda how I saw it. All be it worse defensively so somehow actually less valuable. 

[Sheaf Saint]

Moi Elyounoussi confirms Southampton exit at end of his contract | Daily Echo

Shame. I'm really going to miss his dynamic running, his sharp footballing brain, his superb link up play, and his outstanding goal contributions. 

Oh, hang on...

[SNSUN]

His Celtic loan actually cost us. If he had bombed up there he'd have gone a long time ago. I'm in agreement with others, I've never seen anything in him that suggests he was worth what we spent or that he was Prem quality. And it's players like these leaving this summer that means we can at least try to reset and cut out some of the rot that has set in.

[Wade Garrett]

Terrible player.  Must be good off the ball because he is terrible on it.

[niceandfriendly]

Good riddance. Sure he's a nice person but a truly horrific footballer at the level we wanted to play. So glad we don't have to watch him in the Championship. Go away Mo.

[Sunglasses Ron]

What short memories you all have!

Don't you remember how he masterminded the total annihilation of Newport County a few years ago?

Mark my words, we will live to regret this day for many a year to come...

[saintwbu]

Hearing his name booed in our own stadium is one of the most embarrassing moments i’ve had being a Saints fan. He didn’t pick himself every week, he tried his hardest every game and never moaned or criticised the club once. Good luck Moi, thanks for your efforts. 

[Turkish]

3 minutes ago, Sunglasses Ron said:

What short memories you all have!

Don't you remember how he masterminded the total annihilation of Newport County a few years ago?

Mark my words, we will live to regret this day for many a year to come...

Never seen a player so good when they dont have the ball. World class at being there. Okay things go a little bit wrong when he does have it but my god we are going to miss his instinctive holding of position, being there, ready willing and unable to take a pass to deceive the opposition and free up space for players that we have who are good when we have the ball. Good luck Elmo, thanks for all your efforts. 

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, saintwbu said:

Hearing his name booed in our own stadium is one of the most embarrassing moments i’ve had being a Saints fan. He didn’t pick himself every week, he tried his hardest every game and never moaned or criticised the club once. Good luck Moi, thanks for your efforts. 

why? He's been earning a fortune and been one of the shittest players in a team that were relegated weeks before anyone else and played a lot of games in our worst top flight season ever. What do you expect him to get?

[Saint Fan CaM]

A shame when one player gets singled out, but he is synonymous with the degradation of the quality and balance  in the squad over the last three seasons. I’m sure he tries hard to deploy what is asked of him by poor managers, but ultimately his performances have been sub-standard to the level required.

[Le Timmier]

Always seemed like a good guy. Sadly a good guy who also really substandard.
An overdue exit. 

[Sunglasses Ron]

5 minutes ago, saintwbu said:

Hearing his name booed in our own stadium is one of the most embarrassing moments i’ve had being a Saints fan. He didn’t pick himself every week, he tried his hardest every game and never moaned or criticised the club once. Good luck Moi, thanks for your efforts. 

Yeah, agree with this.

Conversely, it doesn't matter how good a professional you are, if you're perceived as being crap then fans have the right to boo you.  I'm sure his massive salary would have numbed the blow of that happening.

[Dellman]

Moi was mismanaged--not the only one--and his skills never used. He succeeded everywhere else and he may succeed again but we did to him what we did to Tella and Redmond, made them fit into a system which destroyed natural ability. Good luck to him

[skintsaint]

1 hour ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Moi Elyounoussi confirms Southampton exit at end of his contract | Daily Echo

 

[david in sweden]

On 01/03/2023 at 18:41, trousers said:

 

He was much better before he started having fitness issues two years ago. Definitely one of our best attacking midfielder if/when he gets back to pre-covid fitness levels. 

Nice fella' .  Was a good player (when fit) before he started racking up injuries, and is now past 30 his Prem. days are numbered. 

What we need .... is the type of player he used to be (pre covid) .   No longer capable of a 90 minute game every week, 

which will be vital after Prowsey's departure .   Our midfield hasn't been the same since Davis and Romeu departed.

We need to totally re-think the midfield line-up and introduce them to each other before the season starts for real.     

 

[M271]

38 minutes ago, Turkish said:

why? He's been earning a fortune and been one of the shittest players in a team that were relegated weeks before anyone else and played a lot of games in our worst top flight season ever. What do you expect him to get?

You don’t boo your own players reserve it for the opposition 

[saintwbu]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

why? He's been earning a fortune and been one of the shittest players in a team that were relegated weeks before anyone else and played a lot of games in our worst top flight season ever. What do you expect him to get?

Booing your own players is proper weird behaviour, with the possible exception of a player who’s clearly not trying or has disrespected the club. How anyone think it’s to anyone’s benefit to boo a player just because the manager picks him is beyond me. 

[derry]

His totally non combative game playing virtually every week left us competitively weak. He was hopeless and shouldn't have been selected. He struck me as being a thoroughly nice person that got on with all the managers. 

[revolution saint]

I'm definitely going to miss his work against the ball.  I'll be honest, it wasn't something I'd really considered before but it was joy to watch him in his pomp when he glided over the pitch in the general direction of where the ball was and, in terms of being in the vicinity of the ball and yet not actually having an influence on the game, he's been unparalleled.

TBF I'm not going to criticise his commitment or work rate.  I'm sure he's a nice bloke that has tried his best but he should never have been a premier league player.

[austsaint]

26 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

I'm definitely going to miss his work against the ball.  I'll be honest, it wasn't something I'd really considered before but it was joy to watch him in his pomp when he glided over the pitch in the general direction of where the ball was and, in terms of being in the vicinity of the ball and yet not actually having an influence on the game, he's been unparalleled.

TBF I'm not going to criticise his commitment or work rate.  I'm sure he's a nice bloke that has tried his best but he should never have been a premier league player.

Beautifully summed up.   The most puzzlingly (often) selected Saints player I can remember.   Wish him well, but he never belonged in the Prem.

[niceandfriendly]

3 hours ago, saintwbu said:

Hearing his name booed in our own stadium is one of the most embarrassing moments i’ve had being a Saints fan. 

Jesus. You've not been supporting us long have you?

[Sussex_saint]

The first of many cullings. Now onto Aribo, Diallo and perhaps AA etc. We need a large clear out - I don't care if Banuzu suddenly plays well, his cock ups will never go away. Same with Aribo. Che is an exception, as he is an excellent support player, him and ings were a great combo. If we find a good partner and try to keep Che, then we could have a formidable duo upfront. Bring on the Clear out!!

[Viking Saint]

3 hours ago, saintwbu said:

Hearing his name booed in our own stadium is one of the most embarrassing moments i’ve had being a Saints fan. He didn’t pick himself every week, he tried his hardest every game and never moaned or criticised the club once. Good luck Moi, thanks for your efforts. 

The most bizarre thing here is that a string of managers kept selecting him despite the fact that he was as much use on the ball as a banana

[Colinjb]

Can forever be filed alongside Jermaine Wright in the 'WTF was that?' section.

[suewhistle]

Yep, no booing from me, just a weary sigh when I saw him in the starting line up.

I'm not a booer but if I had to choose it would be Aribo. At least Tall Paul would come off blowing through his arse with a muck sweat on.

 

[SambaMaverick]

Shite. He was shite when he got here, and was no better when he came back from Celtic yet he became one of the first names on the teamsheet. 

Good riddance.

[once_bitterne]

2 hours ago, Sussex_saint said:

The first of many cullings. Now onto Aribo, Diallo and perhaps AA etc. We need a large clear out - I don't care if Banuzu suddenly plays well, his cock ups will never go away. Same with Aribo. Che is an exception, as he is an excellent support player, him and ings were a great combo. If we find a good partner and try to keep Che, then we could have a formidable duo upfront. Bring on the Clear out!!

Do you understand how football works?  Elyuseless was out of contract which is why he left.  We can't just 'cull' Aribo, Diallo and the rest of the woeful signings as they are still under contract.  The only way to get rid of them would be if a club is willing to pay good money for them and match the ludicrous wages they are on which is unlikely to say the least.

We'll be seeing a lot of them all next season I'm afraid.