Referee Abuse..

[david in sweden]

A disturbing report from the FA about abuse of officials is quite damning and the volume of attacks on them ..and even their families.. was horrendous.

Teenage referees, and now the advent of female officials only makes the situation worse when they are insulted in the worst manner possible.

I've watched football matches for over 60 years, and grew up hearing fans recommending the ref. to visit an optician, and even questioning his parentage

but the whole situation has grown out of all proportion.

Violent behaviour on the pitch carries over to fans,  and we are all " better referees" - when watching TV  games - than even those responsible for VAR decisions.

What was once deemed.. " violence of the tongue " has spilled over, and we recognise that in modern day parlance some footballers cannot speak two sentences

without at least hearing a swear word.  One wonders if refs. are issued with a handbook of different countries swear words  - as the offence is the same in

any language whether understood by the official or not. 

We need good referees, and it is obviously a hard job to learn and even more difficult when "doubtful decisions" can mean the difference between winning a title 

or avoiding relegation.  Last Saturdays referee showed some grit in the first 15 minutes and booked a few for fouls, but after the incidents surrounding Lemina's

dismissal  he seemed to give up the whole disciplinary issue as a lost cause, and many worse fouls went unpunished in the second half.

Referees need to be more aware of player's bad behavioural tactics, and whatever happened to booking players for diving / feigning injury ?  which have become worse.

If we are to take part, or merely watch football games, it must be recognised that for better or worse the ref. is in charge and should be obeyed.

As fans we may buy a ticket for the game and have an opinion, but freedom of speech should not mean freedom to abuse. 

Edited 14 February, 2023 by david in sweden

[Whitey Grandad]

Well said.

I used to referee at local level and was discussing abuse with a parent of a youngster. She said that abusing the referee was all part of the fun for her when she watched her kids play.

We were regularly reminded by the FA that we should cut out all bad language and of all the complaints that they received from the public by far the most were about swearing. With the type of young lads that I used to deal with this was unrealistic - especially with my refereeing - so I used to ask them to confine it within the borders of the field of play.

Lemina might think himself unlucky but he had shown obvious dissent by gesture before he started running towards the referee and we don’t know what he shouted at that time. It may be that the referees have been told to clamp down on massed visitations when approached by multiple players and that no more than two should be punished.

I’m all for it provided that the clubs have been told in advance.

[saintant]

Isn't it time all the constant verbal abuse and swearing at referees at the top level is dealt with as well. Ok, there aren't physical attacks but some of the vervbal abuse is horrendous. Time to take a leaf out of the rugby refereeing book.

[Colinjb]

Had the misfortune of refereeing a few games when I was a youth coach over ten years ago. Throw in the element of you also being the coach of one of the sides and it's a red rag to a field of bulls should you give any decision against the team you are playing against. 

Would be lying if I said I hadn't given anything out against referees since.... but I do respect how difficult their jobs are at any level. Physical threats were certainly a possibility every time it became clear there were no referees available. Don't blame people who love the game but don't play not wanting to spend their sunday mornings/afternoons on the end of that kind of behaviour.

[Master Bates]

I was a referee once, only once, never again.

[derry]

One conclusion, the leading clubs are all doing it, surrounding the refereee, stopping penalty kicks being taken etc. Solution, dispense with yellow cards. Talk back to the referee and it's an instant red. Surround the referee and they all get red, no ifs or buts. Send a few players off and the clubs will deal with it, as a few hammerings will be the result. Like a lot of things it's the repercussions that bring an end. Anybody see the supporter??? abusing opposition fans after the WHU v Chelsea game. Instantly laid out by a passer by. Anybody who saw that close up will have a new reality. Authorities have to show resolve and just support referees not hang them out to dry when the usual culprits have a whingefest.

 

[Fan The Flames]

Have things got worse? Things have always been bad.

[Whitey Grandad]

44 minutes ago, Master Bates said:

I was a referee once, only once, never again.

That’s what the players said too

[SotonianWill]

1 hour ago, Fan The Flames said:

Have things got worse? Things have always been bad.

I personally think referee abuse has gone down in the stadiums, it’s social media that’s made it worse. 

[tajjuk]

To level of the game needs to set an example to the grass roots for once. Need better levels of respect because whilst top level refs are getting horrible verbal abuse, threats etc. lower down things are going even further and there are so many reports of violence against refs. Top level refs at least have some level of protection against that, there are police at games, fans won't be able to get near them but the average person on a sunday league pitch or kids pitch has nothing. If they started clamping down properly against ref abuse at the higher level it would be seen and set an example for the lower levels and hopefully you'd see a bit more respect given. 

End of the day the game needs people to be refs and want to do it, if they are getting torrents of abuse and in some cases actually physically attacked then they won't do it and games will stop. I know from my own experience helping running amateur teams sometimes getting refs for games was tough, there just aren't enough about. 

[manina-pub]

I followed my son refereeing from age 14 to 18 (he stopped then to go to Uni) - by far the worst abuse he received was when reffing age groups 10-13 year olds - basically parents threatening violence etc - in game and after.

He found reffing Sunday League mens far less stressful.

[Southner]

Anyone know of a reason/reasons why football hasn't followed rugby in terms of getting the refs mic'd up? Player's would be heard more, so they'd surely have to watch what they said. Would instantly result in player's giving, or at least showing the ref more respect.

[The Cat]

I've reffed Tyro matches when my son was younger and even at that age it's hard.

I'll still have an occasional shout at the ref while watching Saints but not that often. Some people in crowds go spitting mad at the officials even when the decision seems correct to me.

I agree with posts above saying that top refs need to start dishing out more cards for players swearing at them or surrounding them after a decision. This would filter down because people copy what they see.

[Convict Colony]

Changed my mind

Am on team ref, players and coaches get away with murder.

Doesnt help credibility tho when the experts off site fuck it up

 

Edited 14 February, 2023 by Convict Colony

[Master Bates]

19 minutes ago, manina-pub said:

I followed my son refereeing from age 14 to 18 (he stopped then to go to Uni) - by far the worst abuse he received was when reffing age groups 10-13 year olds - basically parents threatening violence etc - in game and after.

He found reffing Sunday League mens far less stressful.

Parents are mentalists and should be left in the car.

[TheH]

I refereed my son's football and rugby teams.  Saturday morning footie had a whole different feel to it than Sunday morning rugby.

At U9s, one match in the first half a centre forward was f/ing and blinding constantly at my boy at centre back.  I asked the ref to do something about it at half time and he replied that he couldn't do anything as it wasn't directed at him!  Nat gave him a couple of good kicks (on my advice) to put a stop to it second half.

Saturday morning some of the rugby boys would get a slight tap on the ankle and come off and not want to go back on (too injured).  Next morning at rugby they'd get battered to pieces and you couldn't drag them off.  Ever a better example of youngsters emulating the pros?

Whenever my lad broke a finger (often) we would strap it to another and send him back on  (Orthopaedic surgeon parent present and approved!)

I will add that parent behaviour isn't always better at football.

 I gave up refereeing the footie when I was criticised for my refereeing by one of our own parents, "I feel like I'm back at school," he said.  My reply, "I teach in the poor end of the most deprived area in the country and referee rugby on a Sunday, and you want me to lower my standards on a Saturday.  I quit."

[Lord Duckhunter]

If they were better, they wouldn’t get so much abuse. Most of them are jobs worths, and behave like star struck teenagers around the best players. If that had been Harry Kane or KDB on Sat he wouldn’t have got a second yellow. Local ones are even worse, basically traffic wardens with a whistle. 

[ScandiSaint]

Amazing how people get so angry about football. If you're getting that angry about a decision a referee makes, especially as a spectator rather than a player I think it shows you have some problems that need addressing. I get that you can be passionate about wanting your team to win, but when it involves wishing and wanting to inflict physical pain on another person it just over the top IMO. If you feel that aggressive take up a marital arts or something and learn about controlled aggression. 😅

It can be a bit more understandable when you're playing to get worked-up about a decision. Would love football to follow the example of rugby but changing a culture that is son entrenched for so many years is a real challenge. 

I think we should be more grateful for refs, even if they are a poor standard at Sunday-league level, we need them to run the games. 

[S-Clarke]

You've got to have broad shoulders to be a ref, critisism must fly off of them if it doesn't matter. That's why they irritate I think, as they come across incredibly staunch in their decision because that's all they can be. Can you imagine Jones being a ref? His anxiety would be through the roof, he'd have probably squared up to half of the players before half time - not before telling them about what he'd done at Luton though.

[Chewy]

The only way this gets better is with a zero tolerance approach, which would need implementing at the highest level to set the example.

Unfortunately with the money involved I don’t imagine it’d go down well when every game gets abandoned for lack of players after 6 minutes each time. The authorities would crumble in 2 seconds.
The level of abuse from top players to refs is, quite frankly, disgusting. Football needs to face up to it and support a zero tolerance approach, but unfortunately it never will.

Depressing but reality I think

[spyinthesky]

3 hours ago, saintant said:

Isn't it time all the constant verbal abuse and swearing at referees at the top level is dealt with as well. Ok, there aren't physical attacks but some of the vervbal abuse is horrendous. Time to take a leaf out of the rugby refereeing book.

Spot on there.
Rugby players address Refs as 'Sir' and there is very little condemnation of Referees performances by Rugby pundits.
I have Ref'd and run the at senior and Tyro games and the amount of aggression, often from the sidelines in Tyro games, mainly from managers/spectators who have little knowledge of the game was dispiriting.
 

[Southner]

Would love to see how some of the mouth in the Prem would deal with Collina.

[Weston Super Saint]

Who's the wanker in the black?

(Or have I misinterpreted the thread title?)

[Fan The Flames]

The ref abandoned my sons under 14s game on Sunday, because one of my fellow coaches wouldn't stop arguing with the other manager. He wasnt swearing or aggressive but he just wouldnt stop going on, this drew some of their parents over, who he then started arguing with. I tried to call him back to our area but he was gone. The ref warned him and then rightly abandoned the match. It was embarrassing and he was embarrassed by it a couple of hours later.

But the ref did the right thing and it should happen more often.

[derry]

32 minutes ago, Chewy said:

The only way this gets better is with a zero tolerance approach, which would need implementing at the highest level to set the example.

Unfortunately with the money involved I don’t imagine it’d go down well when every game gets abandoned for lack of players after 6 minutes each time. The authorities would crumble in 2 seconds.
The level of abuse from top players to refs is, quite frankly, disgusting. Football needs to face up to it and support a zero tolerance approach, but unfortunately it never will.

Depressing but reality I think

No it won't just send the gobby ones off quickly, 1,2 maybe three that'll stop it. Just don't reduce below the limit but a further rule would be if the limit was reached and the match abandoned, award a 5-0 win and three points to the winner and also deduct a further three points from the culprits. Then double the deduction if it happens again. The clubs themselves would stamp it out for fear of the penalty especially as it's the top teams that are the biggest culprits.

[steve green]

At "park level" footy it's always been pretty bad. My Dad had to retire early from playing so became a ref to stay involved. He took massive amounts of abuse & threats, on one occasion being chased out of the changing room half dressed.

We used to live off Mansel Park so I'd saunter over on Sundays to watch a game or three, often involving my Dad reffing.

Though about 300yds away from our home he'd always drive there so angry players and chums wouldn't twig where he lived.

 

He was a shit ref though, bless 'im.

 

Edited 14 February, 2023 by steve green

[spyinthesky]

1 hour ago, TheH said:

I refereed my son's football and rugby teams.  Saturday morning footie had a whole different feel to it than Sunday morning rugby.

At U9s, one match in the first half a centre forward was f/ing and blinding constantly at my boy at centre back.  I asked the ref to do something about it at half time and he replied that he couldn't do anything as it wasn't directed at him!  Nat gave him a couple of good kicks (on my advice) to put a stop to it second half.

Saturday morning some of the rugby boys would get a slight tap on the ankle and come off and not want to go back on (too injured).  Next morning at rugby they'd get battered to pieces and you couldn't drag them off.  Ever a better example of youngsters emulating the pros?

Whenever my lad broke a finger (often) we would strap it to another and send him back on  (Orthopaedic surgeon parent present and approved!)

I will add that parent behaviour isn't always better at football.

 I gave up refereeing the footie when I was criticised for my refereeing by one of our own parents, "I feel like I'm back at school," he said.  My reply, "I teach in the poor end of the most deprived area in the country and referee rugby on a Sunday, and you want me to lower my standards on a Saturday.  I quit."

I was Lino at my lads U11 game a few years back.
Our centre half and the opposing CF were jostling for position in the penalty then out of the blue the CF smacked our defender in the face causing a cut lip and bruising.
The youngish Ref sent both players off despite the defender suffering a relatively violent attack.
Our centre half went off to lay on the ground whilst his mother tried to comfort him and stem the bleeding.
The centre forward walked off with a swagger to the back slapping and smiles of his adult supporters.
Presumably he had done something similar before and no doubt would go on to achieve similar notoriety as he grew older.
 

[Turkish]

this is a good listen. I never really liked Geoff Winter when he was a ref but it's quite amusing and talks about the dynamic between ref and players and what belleneds

 

Jeff Winter | Who's The W*nker In The Black" – Undr The Cosh – Podcast – Podtail

[Whitey Grandad]

33 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

The ref abandoned my sons under 14s game on Sunday, because one of my fellow coaches wouldn't stop arguing with the other manager. He wasnt swearing or aggressive but he just wouldnt stop going on, this drew some of their parents over, who he then started arguing with. I tried to call him back to our area but he was gone. The ref warned him and then rightly abandoned the match. It was embarrassing and he was embarrassed by it a couple of hours later.

But the ref did the right thing and it should happen more often.

The reason will have been reported to the FA.

[John Boy Saint]

It would be good if what happened to Lemina becomes the norm - 3rd player into the argument and your getting a card. It’s been a policy in Ice Hockey for years 2 opposing players playing windmills at each other - third man in = 2 minutes in the sun bin 

[Southner]

1 hour ago, spyinthesky said:

I was Lino at my lads U11 game a few years back.
Our centre half and the opposing CF were jostling for position in the penalty then out of the blue the CF smacked our defender in the face causing a cut lip and bruising.
The youngish Ref sent both players off despite the defender suffering a relatively violent attack.
Our centre half went off to lay on the ground whilst his mother tried to comfort him and stem the bleeding.
The centre forward walked off with a swagger to the back slapping and smiles of his adult supporters.
Presumably he had done something similar before and no doubt would go on to achieve similar notoriety as he grew older.
 

He'll get a reputation for doing that, and one day, maybe in an older age group, he'll get crunched by a no nonsense centre half. I reckon it's highly likely that those same parents might kick off.

Many bellends in football. 

[Chewy]

1 hour ago, derry said:

No it won't just send the gobby ones off quickly, 1,2 maybe three that'll stop it. Just don't reduce below the limit but a further rule would be if the limit was reached and the match abandoned, award a 5-0 win and three points to the winner and also deduct a further three points from the culprits. Then double the deduction if it happens again. The clubs themselves would stamp it out for fear of the penalty especially as it's the top teams that are the biggest culprits.

I don’t disagree with the aspiration, far from it. I just don’t think it’s realistic - clubs have the money and power and would moan to the relevant organisations and authorities.
Plus not only does it need full agreement in one country, you’d need all of world football to adhere at the same time otherwise you’d have European refs officiating to different standards in champions league games for example.

It sounds simpler than it would be to implement. 
And at what stage is it abuse? A muttered “for f’s sake” by the player immediately the whistles blown? A loud “no way ref, I got the ball”, or full blown verbal assault?? Everyone has a different limit/interpretation.

Don’t get me wrong, I hate the attitude of footballers towards officials, but it would need total support from all stakeholders in a countries, and backing the officials no matter what the outcry in the first few weeks. Sorry, I’m a pessimist because I don’t ever see that happening.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, Chewy said:

I don’t disagree with the aspiration, far from it. I just don’t think it’s realistic - clubs have the money and power and would moan to the relevant organisations and authorities.
Plus not only does it need full agreement in one country, you’d need all of world football to adhere at the same time otherwise you’d have European refs officiating to different standards in champions league games for example.

It sounds simpler than it would be to implement. 
And at what stage is it abuse? A muttered “for f’s sake” by the player immediately the whistles blown? A loud “no way ref, I got the ball”, or full blown verbal assault?? Everyone has a different limit/interpretation.

Don’t get me wrong, I hate the attitude of footballers towards officials, but it would need total support from all stakeholders in a countries, and backing the officials no matter what the outcry in the first few weeks. Sorry, I’m a pessimist because I don’t ever see that happening.

Down at my level it differed from one referee to another. One said the if it was extreme abuse and directed at him or included the word 'ref' then he would send the player off.

If you book anybody for dissent by word then you have to include the wording in your report. If this wording includes extreme swearing then what may refs do is change it to something more innocous.

One big problem is when players see a top level player on MOTD obviously swearing at the ref and using foul language they naturally assume that they can do the same in their local park.

[bangkoksaint]

It’s not just refereeing though is it? Pretty much standards in society have plummeted. Few people want to take any responsibility and it’s always someone else fault. The younger generation appear to have a sense of entitlement and those in positions of authority such as teachers and Police Officers have had their positions continually eroded. TBH as things stand there’s probably little chance of reversing things without a total reset. I love the story about the parent of a ref who was watching his young son referee. The lad was getting dogs abuse so the parent identified the player of the parent giving the worst abuse and started telling the lad how rubbish he was. It didn’t take long for the parent to interject and tell the parent of the referee that it was his son and he was a child. When it was pointed out that his son, the referee, was also a child the other parent shut up straight away and nothing else was said all game.

[Southner]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/64672965?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=63ef68298f4dbc302129abbc%26Referee body cameras to be trialled%262023-02-17T12%3A00%3A46.937Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:62a5f9ae-8665-4eaf-80c9-a4cf1e59ae35&pinned_post_asset_id=63ef68298f4dbc302129abbc&pinned_post_type=share

[Chez]

I think when watching a professional game, giving the ref stick while the game is going on is perfectly fine and all part of the game. Once the game is finished, no matter how shit the ref was, I simply can't imagine continuing that abuse outside the ground or online. Absolutely ridiculous behaviour from pathetic mindless people.

For players, you can get caught up in the moment, but there are obvious lines you never cross. I argue with refs all the time, but never in a hostile or threatening way. Frustrated, annoyed and maybe even a bit angry, but I honestly can't imagine abusing a ref in any way. It makes me sick reading about refs getting threatened and assaulted. Cunts like that should be banned forever. We will have no refs at all the way things are going.  I've thought about reffing for several years, but why would I want to spend a Sunday morning being abused or potentially assaulted by one of these pricks. 

When it comes to watching kids football, I wouldn't ever say a single thing to a ref from the sidelines, no matter how bad the decision was.  Personally, I feel strongly about not saying/shouting anything at all, even encouragement of players. I think parents should have to watch the game from miles away. All they do is create pressure that is not required. Some kids thrive on it, love the encouragement, but for others, it makes the game bigger than it is and they don't get the maximum amount of enjoyment they should. I appreciate others may not share this opinion, but supporting your kids doesn't require you to be screaming things across the pitch. The parent coaching from the sidelines is mental and any parent that is abusive or hostile to opponents or refs are just fucking dicks and need to take a good long look at themselves. 

[The Cat]

4 hours ago, Chez said:

When it comes to watching kids football, I wouldn't ever say a single thing to a ref from the sidelines, no matter how bad the decision was.  Personally, I feel strongly about not saying/shouting anything at all, even encouragement of players. I think parents should have to watch the game from miles away. All they do is create pressure that is not required. Some kids thrive on it, love the encouragement, but for others, it makes the game bigger than it is and they don't get the maximum amount of enjoyment they should. I appreciate others may not share this opinion, but supporting your kids doesn't require you to be screaming things across the pitch. The parent coaching from the sidelines is mental and any parent that is abusive or hostile to opponents or refs are just fucking dicks and need to take a good long look at themselves. 

Totally this.

Parents telling their kids to do things on the pitch like stand in a certain place, make runs etc are probably going against what the manager has told them and will only end up in confusion.

A couple of things stand out from my son's matches for Sholing. One time, around U14's they played Gosport and they had dads stood behind his goal telling him he was going to let one in soon and that Sholing were shit. Made it even more amusing when Sholing scored a last minute 25 yard free kick to win 1-0. 

Another one was against Southbrook where they had a dad smoking weed throughout the game while continually imploring his son to "fucking smash them" in every tackle. 

Often the refs at these games aren't much older than the kids so don't feel like they can speak to some random dad while they are frothing at the mouth at some perceived injustice.

My youngest wants to be a ref, going to sign him up for the course soon. Not sure how enjoyable it will be for me watching him knowing what some parents can be like.

Edited 17 February, 2023 by The Cat

[64saint]

Some youth leagues have a code of conduct that parents have to sign up to. If they overstep the mark I believe they are then banned as spectators.  I used to run the line at my son's games and  if there was no qualified official would sometimes referee,  it wasn't easy. The kids were ok, it was the parents that were the problem.

Edited 17 February, 2023 by 64saint

[badgerx16]

Lee Mason has left PGMOL after last weekend's VAR cockup.