Jesse Marsch

[OldNick]

22 minutes ago, smoke said:

After one game he abandoned 3 years of work, when tweaks at the back would have been the best option and some game management.

Not seen anything like it to be honest.

You had to be there and id say be a leeds fan who has seen a fair bit of this club,with its own unique way of fucking things up for ourselves.

Cant think of such a risky stupidly quick change at any club in decades of going and im a home and away football fan.

 

How did we stay up?

From then on in it was down to in certain games certain players abandoning his plan, some luck with VAR & refs to see us home, a shot being "saved"by put keepers face and more, he made us worse.

He did get "unlucky" that other teams had runs at the end but in reality we all know you can only effect your own games.

Hes not "succeeded" anywhere when you take a closer look, without the RED BULL money and tactical play book in Austria, he was at a club in a league where it would be like  Man City playing in a PL with teams the quality of say the bottom 6 of this division or top of the championship exclusivley.

Postives, he let the players off the Bielsa fitness regimes (we are paying for that now) and with that he lifted morale but even that by the 3rd to last game had players walking past his high fives and avoiding him as he ran across the pitch at the end of 0-0 draw at selfhurst park, that was 2pts dropped.

LUFC has been in the midst of a takeover for the last 2 seasons, idealy it should have completed end of 20/21 and the manager we had then would have been backed but it didnt, so we ended up with jesse marsch, a mate of our insane Director of football Victor Orta.

Trouble at the mill in the background is the only limited excuse he has but by fuck they backed him with transfer monies.

If we had any sense we would have said thanks and good bye after the end of last season, just as we should have done with Peter Ried in 2002.

 

 

Thank you for spending time doing that. My first game was watching Saints v Leeds at the Dell I think it was 1968, it may have been 1969. We lost 3-1. Then of course we had the Revie teams, in the main we did quite well against that lot. Bremner and Giles had a real challenge with our 'robust' team lol. Im not going to mention the game that BBC always flag up, now that was taking the........

[CB Fry]

https://theathletic.com/4211070/2023/02/16/jesse-marsch-southampton?source=user-shared-article

 

There's an awful lot of detail about our pursuit of Jesse Marsch here, especially when we've been told by some on here that the whole thing was just a load of made up rumours on twitter.

[Fan The Flames]

9 hours ago, CB Fry said:

https://theathletic.com/4211070/2023/02/16/jesse-marsch-southampton?source=user-shared-article

 

There's an awful lot of detail about our pursuit of Jesse Marsch here, especially when we've been told by some on here that the whole thing was just a load of made up rumours on twitter.

Has anyone said our pursuit of him was made up twitter rumours, there is a photo of him in the Harbour Hotel, that only the Matt Le Tissier types coujd deny.

What people did question was the reason why the deal broke down. From the article it seems that JM was interested but our difficult position and not being able to bring in his back room staff was a turn off, that he may have been able to overcome if the deal was longer.

What it doesn't say was why we wanted the short term deal (plus extension), was it just caution on our part or our we tracking another preferred candidate.

[CB Fry]

8 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

Has anyone said our pursuit of him was made up twitter rumours, there is a photo of him in the Harbour Hotel, that only the Matt Le Tissier types coujd deny.

They know who they are 😉

[Winnersaint]

15 hours ago, OldNick said:

Thank you for spending time doing that. My first game was watching Saints v Leeds at the Dell I think it was 1968, it may have been 1969. We lost 3-1. Then of course we had the Revie teams, in the main we did quite well against that lot. Bremner and Giles had a real challenge with our 'robust' team lol. Im not going to mention the game that BBC always flag up, now that was taking the........

My first one was Leeds at the Dell in the Second Division in 63/64 season. Lost 4-1. The beginning of the rise of the Revie team. Leeds promoted  with Sunderland, obviously Saints followed a couple of seasons later.

[SotonianWill]

16 hours ago, OldNick said:

Im not going to mention the game that BBC always flag up, now that was taking the........

they put highlights on youtube of that game during lockdown, all 35 minutes of them…. I had heard about this game but hadn’t seen it before so skipped through a lot thinking it can’t be as bad as 9-0. then leeds players started doing keepie uppies if I remember right and just all round piss taking. not a bad saints team either davies, paine, gabriel, steele and co

[OldNick]

1 hour ago, SotonianWill said:

they put highlights on youtube of that game during lockdown, all 35 minutes of them…. I had heard about this game but hadn’t seen it before so skipped through a lot thinking it can’t be as bad as 9-0. then leeds players started doing keepie uppies if I remember right and just all round piss taking. not a bad saints team either davies, paine, gabriel, steele and co

Yep one of many humiliations in my days being a Saints fan. They were lucky as we couldnt get near them and by the time of the real p-take I think we were demoralised

[Whitey Grandad]

51 minutes ago, OldNick said:

Yep one of many humiliations in my days being a Saints fan. They were lucky as we couldnt get near them and by the time of the real p-take I think we were demoralised

Very unprofessional and showing a lack of class. When you look at it all they did was keep passing the ball around mostly the back of them. Saints have perfected that to an art form.

[OldNick]

47 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Very unprofessional and showing a lack of class. When you look at it all they did was keep passing the ball around mostly the back of them. Saints have perfected that to an art form.

Hadn't we beaten them at our place, or lingering sores of Paine and the boys kicking them a few times. I do recall reading Johnny Giles and Terry Paine disliking each other a great deal

[Kenilworthy]

13 minutes ago, OldNick said:

Hadn't we beaten them at our place, or lingering sores of Paine and the boys kicking them a few times. I do recall reading Johnny Giles and Terry Paine disliking each other a great deal

yes you are right, it isn't ever mentioned that we had beaten them at the Dell the same season. And the next season at the Dell Bremner tried showboating and lost the ball, leading us to scoring. We won 3-1 the week before they lost the FA cup final to Sunderland 

[James G]

16 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

Has anyone said our pursuit of him was made up twitter rumours, there is a photo of him in the Harbour Hotel, that only the Matt Le Tissier types coujd deny.

What people did question was the reason why the deal broke down. From the article it seems that JM was interested but our difficult position and not being able to bring in his back room staff was a turn off, that he may have been able to overcome if the deal was longer.

What it doesn't say was why we wanted the short term deal (plus extension), was it just caution on our part or our we tracking another preferred candidate.

It's because some players were asked for their feedback, and they thought his narrow setups wouldn't suit the team as there are good wide players in the team. So, it was a suck it and see contract offered

[SaintZamboni]

On 17/02/2023 at 01:27, Fan The Flames said:

Has anyone said our pursuit of him was made up twitter rumours, there is a photo of him in the Harbour Hotel, that only the Matt Le Tissier types coujd deny.

What people did question was the reason why the deal broke down. From the article it seems that JM was interested but our difficult position and not being able to bring in his back room staff was a turn off, that he may have been able to overcome if the deal was longer.

What it doesn't say was why we wanted the short term deal (plus extension), was it just caution on our part or our we tracking another preferred candidate.

Interesting to see he’s now seemingly done a similar thing with Leicester. Deal close, then collapses late

[Crab Lungs]

On 17/02/2023 at 22:54, James G said:

It's because some players were asked for their feedback, and they thought his narrow setups wouldn't suit the team as there are good wide players in the team. So, it was a suck it and see contract offered

I sincerely hope that isn’t true. We went to that group of utter losers for feedback? 

Never let the tail wag the dog.

Edited 10 April, 2023 by Crab Lungs

[JRM]

4 hours ago, SaintZamboni said:

Interesting to see he’s now seemingly done a similar thing with Leicester. Deal close, then collapses late

He was on "the verge of being appointed " and visited the training ground again at Leicester before pulling out, maybe he's part of a group making money on next manager to be appointed markets 

[LeBizzier69]

Tyrekicker

[James G]

1 hour ago, Crab Lungs said:

I sincerely hope that isn’t true. We went to that group of utter losers for feedback? 

Never let the tail wag the dog.

It's true, it was only senior players

But I roll with the general sentiment, and overall consensus here. I think an overall lack of 'on the field' experience since the start of the season, the lack of a striker, then the uptake of Jones-ball at a critical time has made it difficult this season. And I also agree that an experienced manager could have made a difference. I think, sometimes, people overthink football tactics, sometimes just a back to basics approach works

[beatlesaint]

1 hour ago, JRM said:

He was on "the verge of being appointed " and visited the training ground again at Leicester before pulling out, maybe he's part of a group making money on next manager to be appointed markets 

Its funny its happened twice with him now.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

On 17/02/2023 at 22:54, James G said:

It's because some players were asked for their feedback, and they thought his narrow setups wouldn't suit the team as there are good wide players in the team. So, it was a suck it and see contract offered

If the people in charge are basing their tactical plans on what the players think, then it's really broken. Those recrutiing should be the ones aware of the limitations/ capabilities of the squad. Mind you, we bought in a forward for JonesBall only for that not to last long, leaving him on the bench. Shambles.

9 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

Its funny its happened twice with him now.

Marsch is going to look back and wonder if he was over fussy when presented with the club canteen menus. 🙂

With his compensation, I'd have thought he'd wait until the summer to see if there were jobs going in one of the top divisions, either here or in Germany.

By the summer, our club might realises that those seinor players of ours were fibbing about having good wide players. Or good players anywhere, and invite Marsch back for a chat. If there are no top division jobs going then, maybe he'll consider it.

[AlexLaw76]

Good wide players must include Mo El.

Think about that....

[Dellman]

38 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

Its funny its happened twice with him now.

Can anyone explain to me what is attractive about Marsch as manager? What has he ever done to be considered? I know he would have been better than the madman who got our job but that doesn't say much.

[AlexLaw76]

4 minutes ago, Dellman said:

Can anyone explain to me what is attractive about Marsch as manager? What has he ever done to be considered? I know he would have been better than the madman who got our job but that doesn't say much.

assistant manager at RB Leipzig under Rangnick, before taking over at RB Salzburg where he completed the double-double...Short stint at RB leipzig again before doing alright at Leeds...

[Turkish]

37 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Good wide players must include Mo El.

Think about that....

And Djenepo, Orsic and Edozie are absolutely smashing it under Selles

 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

assistant manager at RB Leipzig under Rangnick, before taking over at RB Salzburg where he completed the double-double...Short stint at RB leipzig again before doing alright at Leeds...

Happily have him here over Selles. Least we might attack a bit more.

[beatlesaint]

7 hours ago, Dellman said:

Can anyone explain to me what is attractive about Marsch as manager? What has he ever done to be considered? I know he would have been better than the madman who got our job but that doesn't say much.

I think it was more a case of best available at the time and given the position we were in.

On a level playing field wouldn’t make a top 10 in most people’s list.

[Master Bates]

Former USA Defender Jimmy Conrad:

"I had some text conversations with him, (Jesse Marsch), about Southampton. Some of the insight he gave me about Southampton was that they just don’t know what they want. They don’t know where they want to go. Maybe they just wanted him for the rest of the season.

“I am sure Jesse could see that was happening and he was like; ‘You know what, I’m gonna pass’. But it’s pretty cool that he’s been part of these conversations and even cooler that he’s saying; ‘Nah, screw you guys, I can see what you are trying to do!'”

[Convict Colony]

1 minute ago, Master Bates said:

Former USA Defender Jimmy Conrad:

"I had some text conversations with him, (Jesse Marsch), about Southampton. Some of the insight he gave me about Southampton was that they just don’t know what they want. They don’t know where they want to go. Maybe they just wanted him for the rest of the season.

“I am sure Jesse could see that was happening and he was like; ‘You know what, I’m gonna pass’. But it’s pretty cool that he’s been part of these conversations and even cooler that he’s saying; ‘Nah, screw you guys, I can see what you are trying to do!'”

Glad he didnt waste his time coming down to stay a hotel then the evening before expecting to sign the next day, that would of been real stupid.

[Fabrice29]

35 minutes ago, Master Bates said:

Former USA Defender Jimmy Conrad:

"I had some text conversations with him, (Jesse Marsch), about Southampton. Some of the insight he gave me about Southampton was that they just don’t know what they want. They don’t know where they want to go. Maybe they just wanted him for the rest of the season.

“I am sure Jesse could see that was happening and he was like; ‘You know what, I’m gonna pass’. But it’s pretty cool that he’s been part of these conversations and even cooler that he’s saying; ‘Nah, screw you guys, I can see what you are trying to do!'”

Southampton didn't know what they wanted but Marsch pulled out when he was told what they wanted. Cheers for the insight Jimmy. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

Listened to Gab Marcotti the other night. Basically said Marsch would have been a perfect fit for us and what we’re trying to achieve in the long run. However, he also added, who does he think he is turning down us & Leicester; he got sacked by Leeds FFS, he’s not getting a better job in England. 

[James G]

2 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Listened to Gab Marcotti the other night. Basically said Marsch would have been a perfect fit for us and what we’re trying to achieve in the long run. However, he also added, who does he think he is turning down us & Leicester; he got sacked by Leeds FFS, he’s not getting a better job in England. 

In both cases,he was offered a short contract, that's why he said no. It's just purely about money

[LuckyNumber7]

Apparently we just didn't know what we wanted, probably in terms of short term or long term appointment.

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/23452895.former-usa-player-hints-jesse-marsch-rejected-southampton-job/

[Crab Lungs]

Yeah that might well be true we don’t know what we want but I can assure every last one of you this was transmitted to Mr Marsch in a calm and relaxed manner.

[Le Timmier]

Nothing about Jesse Marsch, but just saw @Fabrice29 talking about the qualities of AMN on the Transfer Window thread and it reminded me to dig this out. Cheers 🙂

On 15/02/2023 at 13:29, Le Timmier said:

Baffling?

To stay up we're going to (more than likely) need a minimum 36 points. That's a further 21 points. That's SEVEN wins. Over the course of a season, 7 wins in 16 games is comfortably top-8 form. We only managed 9 league wins in the whole of last season - and only 4 in this. The upturn in form required to attain the minimum 21 points we require just isn't going to happen.

 

On 15/02/2023 at 13:45, Fabrice29 said:

What we actually need is 1 more point than 3 others. 5 more points than Leeds for example over the next 16 games. You’re just assuming everyone else is getting to your magical 36 points. That involves Leeds getting 17 points or Everton or Bournemouth getting 18 more points. We’ve won the same amount of games than all of them this season. 
 

What, which I think my post explains, I find baffling is the idea that we’re already down. Not that we will go down, like I said, maybe we’re most likely to go down, but the idea that we just write this season off with 16 games to go is baffling. 

On 15/02/2023 at 13:54, Le Timmier said:

It's not "my" magical 36 points. It's not a figure plucked out of the air. It's evidence based. It is more-or-less the points total that the team finishing 17th in the EPL usually needs to avoid the drop.

 

[notnowcato]

13 minutes ago, Le Timmier said:

Nothing about Jesse Marsch, but just saw @Fabrice29 talking about the qualities of AMN on the Transfer Window thread and it reminded me to dig this out. Cheers 🙂

 

So, 34 points then..

[Saint Fan CaM]

4 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

So, 34 points then..

Actually 36 with a better GD of -23 to clear the relegation zone shown.

[notnowcato]

3 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Actually 36 with a better GD of -23 to clear the relegation zone shown.

So... where would Everton have finished if they had 34 points and a better GD of -17?

 

Edited 7 June, 2023 by notnowcato

[Saint Fan CaM]

3 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

So... where would Everton have finished if they had 34 points and a better GD of -17?

 

Obviously 17th, but there would still be three teams below them in the table.  For Saints to move out of the RZ (by having three teams below them) they would have to better Everton's result.

[notnowcato]

5 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Obviously 17th, but there would still be three teams below them in the table.  For Saints to move out of the RZ (by having three teams below them) they would have to better Everton's result.

Le Timmier's point was about the magical / mythical figure of 36 points being required for any Premier league team to avoid relegation in any given season.

[Fabrice29]

I think my point that with 16 games to go the idea that we were already down and we just wrote off the the idea that we might get more points than some other really shit teams stands up pretty well tbh. 

[Le Timmier]

4 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Le Timmier's point was about the magical / mythical figure of 36 points being required for any Premier league team to avoid relegation in any given season.

I said we'd likely need a minimum of 36 points to stay up. Which proved to be a an entirely accuate estimation. 

If we had a total of 34 points we would have finished 18th or 19th, depending on GD  

[CB Fry]

23 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Le Timmier's point was about the magical / mythical figure of 36 points being required for any Premier league team to avoid relegation in any given season.

Not that mythical really is it? 

Team fourth bottom = 36 points.

That's a pretty decent target these days, although 38 to 40m should be the aim at the start of any given Prem season.

 

[Dman]

1 hour ago, notnowcato said:

So, 34 points then..

 

58 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

So... where would Everton have finished if they had 34 points and a better GD of -17?

 

 

43 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Le Timmier's point was about the magical / mythical figure of 36 points being required for any Premier league team to avoid relegation in any given season.

Fuck me, i've seen some thick as fuck things on this site, but this is well up there. 

[Saint86]

1 hour ago, Le Timmier said:

I said we'd likely need a minimum of 36 points to stay up. Which proved to be a an entirely accuate estimation. 

If we had a total of 34 points we would have finished 18th or 19th, depending on GD  

That isn't true though is it! If we'd have got 34 more points, other teams would have dropped points - so it becomes highly theoretical. For example, a better saints side should easily have had 6 points off of forest this year (the worst team i've seen at SMS in years - bar us this year), and would have beaten Everton at home. That is us on 34points, Everton on 33 and forest on 32... And you can keep your Leicester and Leeds where they are.

Reality is that 18th place got 34 points, so beating 34 points and a -17GD was the safety boundary - as it would have been for any other team, and as many predicted.

18th place's points tally in recent seasons - i.e. the threshold to survive.

2022/23 = 34

2021/22 = 35

2020/21 = 28

2019/20 = 34

2018/21 = 34

Edited 7 June, 2023 by Saint86

[CB Fry]

54 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

That isn't true though is it! If we'd have got 34 more points, other teams would have dropped points - so it becomes highly theoretical. For example, a better saints side should easily have had 6 points off of forest this year, and would have beaten Everton at home. That is us on 34points, Everton on 33 and forest on 32... And you can keep your Leicester and Leeds where they are.

Reality is that 18th place got 34 points, so beating 34 points and a -17GD was the safety boundary - as it would have been for any other team, and as many predicted.

2022/23 = 34

2021/22 = 35

2020/21 = 28

2019/20 = 34

2018/21 = 34

Not 36points....

Not this bullshit again.

Reverse engineering what the team in happened to finish 18th got and then saying "all we needed to do was be one goal better than them" is an utterly moronic way of looking at it.

Edited 7 June, 2023 by CB Fry

[notnowcato]

1 hour ago, Dman said:

 

 

Fuck me, i've seen some thick as fuck things on this site, but this is well up there. 

Stop it, you tease, I'll blush.

Would it help if I drew you a picture, sweetheart?

[Le Timmier]

45 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

18th place's points tally in recent seasons - i.e. the threshold to survive.

2022/23 = 34

2021/22 = 35

2020/21 = 28

2019/20 = 34

2018/21 = 34

So what you're saying is that in 4 out of the last 5 seasons, the team finishing 17th would need either 35 or 36 points to survive?

Not sure how/why you think that is any different to what I said?

On 15/02/2023 at 13:54, Le Timmier said:

It's not "my" magical 36 points. It's not a figure plucked out of the air. It's evidence based. It is more-or-less the points total that the team finishing 17th in the EPL usually needs to avoid the drop.

OK, it's been 35 points more often than 36 points in recent seasons, that's why I said "more or less" - it's near as damnit. 

 

[Dark Munster]

41 points needed in La Liga this season. Mental battle between 6 clubs to avoid the drop.

Luckily we didn't have to go through that nightmare.

[Miltonaggro]

Any razorsharp insight into how many points we will need to stay up in the Championship this time next year? If only we’d beaten Nat Jones’ Swansea by another goal 🙂

[Saint86]

4 hours ago, Le Timmier said:

So what you're saying is that in 4 out of the last 5 seasons, the team finishing 17th would need either 35 or 36 points to survive?

 

 

No, they'd have needed 34 points and better goal difference to survive. In only one of the last five seasons was 35points required for survival, and 36 in none of them 😋😄

Edited 7 June, 2023 by Saint86

[CB Fry]

1 hour ago, Saint86 said:

No, they'd have needed 34 points and better goal difference to survive. In only one of the last five seasons was 35points required for survival, and 36 in none of them 😋😄

Jesus wept.

[Toussaint]

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/up-front-with-simon-jordan/id1683837570?i=1000641264985
 

A really good listen imo. He also talks about his dealings with Saints.