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Jesse Marsch

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Miltonaggro

Miltonaggro

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

What’s good about him though? He’s failed at Leipzig and didn’t last until Xmas and then got sacked at our relegation rivals. Plus considering Salzburg have won the league 9 times in a row that’s not particularly impressive either tbh..

after pretty much failing at Leeds and Leipzig though I can’t really see the attraction ?

Dental hygiene 

English as first language 

Comes from tough Wisconsin industrial town

Passionate

Controlled aggression 

Premier League experience 

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SW5 SAINT

SW5 SAINT

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Posted
1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

I'm absolutley fascinated by the dynamic of him returning to Leeds with us as soon as he’s appointed, it's such an odd situation and doesn't happen that often.

If you think about it, we've had a spy inside our opponents camp for 6 months running all their training and now he's taking charge of us when we're playing that opponent. That must provide an advantage that isn't seen that often.

Leeds can't moan as they sent Beilsa up trees to spy on other teams.

Wait for Leeds to appoint Ralph next week, that would be some match….

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James G

James G

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Posted

Well, all his formations have four at the back, and he likes his teams to pass forward, not sideways. So that meets alot of criticisms often levelled at managers here. Also, he's been schooled by Ragnick and Bielsa, and Haaland speaks highly of him. Just trying to see the positives :)

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SW5 SAINT

SW5 SAINT

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

How hilarious would it be if it was the aggressive front footed welsh chip carrier 

Some how I don’t think Jones is going to get another post that high in the chain again for a very long time….

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S-Clarke

S-Clarke

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Posted
14 minutes ago, tunit said:

I remember when they played here first home game of the season we played 'American Idiot' by Green Day over the tannoy at HT. Should probably apologise for that 🤣

I wish we didn't do that kind of smug shit, they scored as soon as they came out after the break as well.

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Clueless Yank

Clueless Yank

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Posted (edited)

Hi, hope you don't mind an obviously biased point of view from over here in the States...

It's simple. If you believe that results will tend to converge back to goal differential, never mind newer stats like xG, this is a good appointment. Not great, JM has some clear weaknesses, but much better than the results at Leeds indicate.

OTOH if you believe that managers have a sustainable power to take a side that concedes lots more goals than they score and still win a few more games -- call it Steve Cooper's magic power -- well then, obviously Jesse's a disaster.

I'm pretty squarely in the former camp (nationality aside, I just believe xG and GD help predict the future). On one day Leeds dominated Arsenal, missed a penalty, and lost 0-1... so their fans bemoan the lack of finishing. On other days, they would lose 4-3 to Tottenham, or even pull out a wild 4-3 comeback over Bournemouth... and the fans would lament that you can't stay up in the PL conceding two goals a game. You all are more familiar with the RB style than most, so you understand that when the results aren't happening, it looks completely shapeless and incompetent. But when the pressure works, you induce a Mendy howler to beat Chelsea 3-0, or a Gomez mistake to win at Anfield, and everyone says it's the other team losing rather than you winning.

TBH he's kind of stubborn about the Red Bull stuff and perhaps slow to moderate it when the defense is springing leaks. His Leipzig stint imploded quickly because the team felt they'd moved into a post-Ralph kind of RB fußball and that Jesse was moving them backwards. But at Leeds he never lost the team even with bad results.

Your side has decent xG stats and I expect you'll get a modest bounce. Likely not enough to stay up, but it's somewhat plausible. More likely, his tactics will work much better in the Championship because of opponents with less composure, so maybe in two years you'll be in a really good place.

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Turkish

Turkish

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Posted
1 minute ago, Clueless Yank said:

Hi, hope you don't mind an obviously biased point of view from over here in the States...

It's simple. If you believe that results will tend to converge back to goal differential, never mind newer stats like xG, this is a good appointment. Not great, JM has some clear weaknesses, but much better than the results at Leeds indicate.

OTOH if you believe that managers have a sustainable power to take a side that concedes lots more goals than they score and still win a few more games -- call it Steve Cooper's magic power -- well then, obviously Jesse's a disaster.

I'm pretty squarely in the former camp. On one day Leeds dominated Arsenal, missed a penalty, and lost 0-1... so their fans bemoan the lack of finishing. On another day, they lose 4-3 to Tottenham, or even pull out a wild 4-3 comeback over Bournemouth... and the fans lament that you can't stay up in the PL conceding two goals a game. You all are more familiar with the RB style than most, so you understand that when the results aren't happening, it looks completely shapeless and incompetent. But when the pressure works, you get a Mendy howler to beat Chelsea 3-0, or a Gomez mistake to win at Anfield.

OTOH he's kind of stubborn about the Red Bull stuff and perhaps slow to moderate it when the defense is springing leaks. His Leipzig stint imploded quickly because the team felt they'd moved into a post-Ralph kind of RB fußball and that Jesse was moving them backwards. But at Leeds he never lost the team even with bad results.

Your side has decent xG stats and I expect you'll get a modest bounce. Likely not enough to stay up, but it's somewhat plausible. More likely, his tactics will work much better in the Championship because of opponents with less composure, so maybe in two years you'll be in a really good place.

Welcome back to the forum pal!! Hows the golf over there? Do you have any relatives in Glasgow by any chance?

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Bad Wolf

Bad Wolf

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Posted
1 hour ago, macca155 said:

When the likes of Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney, and Bruce are in the mix, suddenly Marsch doesn't seem so bad.

There isn't much choice at the moment, and Saints certainly aren't an attractive proposition in our current position.

For me he ticks a few boxes and his positivity will definitely help.

Bottom line is whether the players buy into his 'project'. They are the ones who have to actually win these games.

Like most I'm persuading myself he'll be OK. I liked early Ralph's football and Marsch seems a continuation if that.

He'll certainly get a good welcome from the fans by the very fact he isn't Jones.

Have you seen the comments toward him on the Facebook pages? Usual from our "patient and supportive" fanbase 

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Clueless Yank

Clueless Yank

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Welcome back to the forum pal!! Hows the golf over there? Do you have any relatives in Glasgow by any chance?

If I do, they're very distant. Might be a case of mistaken identity. Thanks for the welcome, in any case. 

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OldNick

OldNick

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10 minutes ago, Clueless Yank said:

If I do, they're very distant. Might be a case of mistaken identity. Thanks for the welcome, in any case. 

Welcome, obviously your writing style is similar to one of most treasured possessions who used to come on here. He is to Saints forum what Donald Trump is to realism

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miserableoldgit

miserableoldgit

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, Clueless Yank said:

If I do, they're very distant. Might be a case of mistaken identity. Thanks for the welcome, in any case. 

Don't worry Mr Clueless, if you hang around long enough you will soon get used to some of the weird and wonderful characters that populate the "Alice in Wonderland" world that is Saints Web.

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vagab0nd

vagab0nd

Posted
Posted (edited)

American here-

I’ll keep my Premier League allegiance private, but been a fan of Marsch and have followed him pretty closely ever since he moved to Europe, so have some thoughts.

-He was pretty much screwed from the beginning with Leeds, following Bielsa. Anyone who was appointed, barring a miracle worker, was pretty much screwed. The ground that Bielsa walks on is worshipped and there were many Leeds fans willing to get relegated with him at the helm. That kind of feverish, undying loyalty from a fanbase is nearly impossible to follow and to win the fans over after that is incredibly difficult.

-I’ve read some quotes from Leeds forum(s) on here the last day or two and I’m assuming they’re pulled off of MOT. While there are some reasonable fans, that place is littered with a lot of deluded types who think way too highly of themselves and their club’s stature in the game. That could probably be said for the vast majority of supporters’ forums to be fair, but some genuinely shocking opinions there. A good portion of MOT was fuming at Marsch for not giving Joe Gelhardt enough of a look-in at striker and for sending Charlie Cresswell on loan at the beginning of the season. Gelhardt is now on loan in the Championship and Cresswell has been very up and down for Millwall this season. Take what they say with a giant grain of salt.

-He shored Leeds up defensively, compared to Bielsa, while still maintaining a system that was more attack-oriented. When he was first hired and his sole job was to keep Leeds up, it often wasn’t pretty and it was clear he was just trying to keep the unit together and pulling in the same direction. I would expect similar at Southampton over the coming months, where some of his system is integrated but not the full setup. It will help that the majority of the Saints squad played under Hassenhutl, who comes from the RB setup and has a similar playing style.

-He was pretty badly let down by them not converting their chances and some mental mistakes at the back. The underlying numbers point to a squad that should have been 2-5 spots higher up the table when he was sacked. 7 of their 10 losses in the league this season were by one goal. Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades, but that’s a Leeds side that could have easily been higher up the table if a few breaks had gone their way. Whether that’s comforting or concerning for you, is obviously up for interpretation…

-I don’t think he ever really lost the dressing room at Leeds, which IMO says a lot, since results were hard to come by. It really wasn’t until the second half of the Nottingham Forest game where it started to become obvious (at least to me), that the race was up in terms of fan support and possibly belief from the team in what he was doing. The players worked hard and looked committed throughout his tenure.  

 

-As has been stated a few times now, he’s generally thought of as a genuinely good human. Obviously that only goes so far and this profession is about winning and getting results, but after enduring Nathan Jones, it will hopefully be a breath of fresh air for the players and the fans.

-He’s American, so while it’s stereotyping, he definitely has a lot of self-confidence, belief in himself and his team and a ‘never-say-die’ attitude. He’s incredibly bright and Ivy League educated and he’s quite transparent and honest when talking with the press. I know you Brits detest showing emotion and having a bit of personality 😉, so I do think that will grate at times, especially if results aren’t going well. I know it rubbed Leeds fans the wrong way quite often. So just prepare yourself.

-This will be the first time since he came to Europe that he won’t be following an incredibly successful manager. At Salzburg, it was Marco Rose who won everything there and left to become the Monchengladbach manager. He then followed one of the brightest, if not the brightest young managerial talent in the world at Leipzig with Nagelsmann. And then of course at Leeds, following a living legend who brought glory and good times to the club that supporters hadn’t seen in nearly a generation. I think it’ll do him a world of good coming in after a man who was, by most accounts, universally disliked by supporters.

-His system has flaws, like every system does. Their pressing style left them dangerously exposed on counter attacks at times, especially at fullback. In attack, things often felt compacted and congested in the middle with not enough width in the opponents’ half or final third. The quick transitions forward, when they worked, were scintillating at times but when they break down, which happens a lot, it can be very frustrating to watch and often lead to the defensive exposure I just mentioned above. His subs often left a lot to be desired, but how much he was hamstrung by the options at his disposal, is debatable.

-His signings were definitely hit-or-miss at Leeds. Aaronson, Adams, Wober, Kristensen and probably McKennie were all signings that he pushed for. Aaronson started brightly but has faded badly as the season has worn on. Adams is up there for club POTY and has been one of the first names on the team sheet all season. Jury is still out on Kristensen, but he’s probably not good enough and McKennie has shown promise and will probably be a good signing. Wober has come in and immediately been one of their best, if not best central defender. Gnonto, Rutter, Sinisterra and Rutter all seemed like decisions that were made more by the club to bring in.

-He’s not afraid to play young players. Crysencio Summerville and Sam Greenwood have both seen decent amount of playing time, especially the former. To go along with U-23’s like Gnonto, Adams, Aaronson and Sinisterra. That should bode well for players like Alcaraz, Mara, Lavia, etc. 

Genuinely unsure how this will go for him and for Saints. The Yank Lampard and Ted Lasso shouts were usually wide of the mark as Lampard is a complete idiot with no discernible playing style and only got into the managerial positions he got into through his last name. The ‘rah-rah’ Ted Lasso stuff has a little more merit, I guess, but Lasso is also a caricature and Marsch has grinded for years in the profession to get where he is. He has had his admirers across Europe for a reason.

99% of managerial stints end on some type of sour note, but I do hope there’s some really good moments in between for him and your club. Don’t plan on posting here again, but just wanted to give some thoughts on the impending appointment. I do hope it works out in the long run, even if it means relegation this season and a stint back in the Championship to right the ship. The best of luck, except for when you play my club, as always.

Edited by vagab0nd
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miserableoldgit

miserableoldgit

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Posted
11 minutes ago, vagab0nd said:

American here-

I’ll keep my Premier League allegiance private, but been a fan of Marsch and have followed him pretty closely ever since he moved to Europe, so have some thoughts.

-He was pretty much screwed from the beginning with Leeds, following Bielsa. Anyone who was appointed, barring a miracle worker, was pretty much screwed. The ground that Bielsa walks on is worshipped and there were many Leeds fans willing to get relegated with him at the helm. That kind of feverish, undying loyalty from a fanbase is nearly impossible to follow and to win the fans over after that is incredibly difficult.

-I’ve read some quotes from Leeds forum(s) on here the last day or two and I’m assuming they’re pulled off of MOT. While there are some reasonable fans, that place is littered with a lot of deluded types who think way too highly of themselves and their club’s stature in the game. That could probably be said for the vast majority of supporters’ forums to be fair, but some genuinely shocking opinions there. A good portion of MOT was fuming at Marsch for not giving Joe Gelhardt enough of a look-in at striker and for sending Charlie Cresswell on loan at the beginning of the season. Gelhardt is now on loan in the Championship and Cresswell has been very up and down for Millwall this season. Take what they say with a giant grain of salt.

-He shored Leeds up defensively, compared to Bielsa, while still maintaining a system that was more attack-oriented. When he was first hired and his sole job was to keep Leeds up, it often wasn’t pretty and it was clear he was just trying to keep the unit together and pulling in the same direction. I would expect similar at Southampton over the coming months, where some of his system is integrated but not the full setup. It will help that the majority of the Saints squad played under Hassenhutl, who comes from the RB setup and has a similar playing style.

-He was pretty badly let down by them not converting their chances and some mental mistakes at the back. The underlying numbers point to a squad that should have been 2-5 spots higher up the table when he was sacked. 7 of their 10 losses in the league this season were by one goal. Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades, but that’s a Leeds side that could have easily been higher up the table if a few breaks had gone their way. Whether that’s comforting or concerning for you, is obviously up for interpretation…

-I don’t think he ever really lost the dressing room at Leeds, which IMO says a lot, since results were hard to come by. It really wasn’t until the second half of the Nottingham Forest game where it started to become obvious (at least to me), that the race was up in terms of fan support and possibly belief from the team in what he was doing. The players worked hard and looked committed throughout his tenure.  

 

-As has been stated a few times now, he’s generally thought of as a genuinely good human. Obviously that only goes so far and this profession is about winning and getting results, but after enduring Nathan Jones, it will hopefully be a breath of fresh air for the players and the fans.

-He’s American, so while it’s stereotyping, he definitely has a lot of self-confidence, belief in himself and his team and a ‘never-say-die’ attitude. He’s incredibly bright and Ivy League educated and he’s quite transparent and honest when talking with the press. I know you Brits detest showing emotion and having a bit of personality 😉, so I do think that will grate at times, especially if results aren’t going well. I know it rubbed Leeds fans the wrong way quite often. So just prepare yourself.

-This will be the first time since he came to Europe that he won’t be following an incredibly successful manager. At Salzburg, it was Marco Rose who won everything there and left to become the Monchengladbach manager. He then followed one of the brightest, if not the brightest young managerial talent in the world at Leipzig with Nagelsmann. And then of course at Leeds, following a living legend who brought glory and good times to the club that supporters hadn’t seen in nearly a generation. I think it’ll do him a world of good coming in after a man who was, by most accounts, universally disliked by supporters.

-His system has flaws, like every system does. Their pressing style left them dangerously exposed on counter attacks at times, especially at fullback. In attack, things often felt compacted and congested in the middle with not enough width in the opponents’ half or final third. The quick transitions forward, when they worked, were scintillating at times but when they break down, which happens a lot, it can be very frustrating to watch and often lead to the defensive exposure I just mentioned above. His subs often left a lot to be desired, but how much he was hamstrung by the options at his disposal, is debatable.

-His signings were definitely hit-or-miss at Leeds. Aaronson, Adams, Wober, Kristensen and probably McKennie were all signings that he pushed for. Aaronson started brightly but has faded badly as the season has worn on. Adams is up there for club POTY and has been one of the first names on the team sheet all season. Jury is still out on Kristensen, but he’s probably not good enough and McKennie has shown promise and will probably be a good signing. Wober has come in and immediately been one of their best, if not best central defender. Gnonto, Rutter, Sinisterra and Rutter all seemed like decisions that were made more by the club to bring in.

-He’s not afraid to play young players. Crysencio Summerville and Sam Greenwood have both seen decent amount of playing time, especially the former. To go along with U-23’s like Gnonto, Adams, Aaronson and Sinisterra. That should bode well for players like Alcaraz, Mara, Lavia, etc. 

Genuinely unsure how this will go for him and for Saints. The Yank Lampard and Ted Lasso shouts were usually wide of the mark as Lampard is a complete idiot with no discernible playing style and only got into the managerial positions he got into through his last name. The ‘rah-rah’ Ted Lasso stuff has a little more merit, I guess, but Lasso is also a caricature and Marsch has grinded for years in the profession to get where he is. He has had his admirers across Europe for a reason.

99% of managerial stints end on some type of sour note, but I do hope there’s some really good moments in between for him and your club. Don’t plan on posting here again, but just wanted to give some thoughts on the impending appointment. I do hope it works out in the long run, even if it means relegation this season and a stint back in the Championship to right the ship. The best of luck, except for when you play my club, as always.

Good balanced read. Makes me feel a bit better.

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Southner

Southner

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Posted
11 minutes ago, vagab0nd said:

American here-

I’ll keep my Premier League allegiance private, but been a fan of Marsch and have followed him pretty closely ever since he moved to Europe, so have some thoughts.

-He was pretty much screwed from the beginning with Leeds, following Bielsa. Anyone who was appointed, barring a miracle worker, was pretty much screwed. The ground that Bielsa walks on is worshipped and there were many Leeds fans willing to get relegated with him at the helm. That kind of feverish, undying loyalty from a fanbase is nearly impossible to follow and to win the fans over after that is incredibly difficult.

-I’ve read some quotes from Leeds forum(s) on here the last day or two and I’m assuming they’re pulled off of MOT. While there are some reasonable fans, that place is littered with a lot of deluded types who think way too highly of themselves and their club’s stature in the game. That could probably be said for the vast majority of supporters’ forums to be fair, but some genuinely shocking opinions there. A good portion of MOT was fuming at Marsch for not giving Joe Gelhardt enough of a look-in at striker and for sending Charlie Cresswell on loan at the beginning of the season. Gelhardt is now on loan in the Championship and Cresswell has been very up and down for Millwall this season. Take what they say with a giant grain of salt.

-He shored Leeds up defensively, compared to Bielsa, while still maintaining a system that was more attack-oriented. When he was first hired and his sole job was to keep Leeds up, it often wasn’t pretty and it was clear he was just trying to keep the unit together and pulling in the same direction. I would expect similar at Southampton over the coming months, where some of his system is integrated but not the full setup. It will help that the majority of the Saints squad played under Hassenhutl, who comes from the RB setup and has a similar playing style.

-He was pretty badly let down by them not converting their chances and some mental mistakes at the back. The underlying numbers point to a squad that should have been 2-5 spots higher up the table when he was sacked. 7 of their 10 losses in the league this season were by one goal. Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades, but that’s a Leeds side that could have easily been higher up the table if a few breaks had gone their way. Whether that’s comforting or concerning for you, is obviously up for interpretation…

-I don’t think he ever really lost the dressing room at Leeds, which IMO says a lot, since results were hard to come by. It really wasn’t until the second half of the Nottingham Forest game where it started to become obvious (at least to me), that the race was up in terms of fan support and possibly belief from the team in what he was doing. The players worked hard and looked committed throughout his tenure.  

 

-As has been stated a few times now, he’s generally thought of as a genuinely good human. Obviously that only goes so far and this profession is about winning and getting results, but after enduring Nathan Jones, it will hopefully be a breath of fresh air for the players and the fans.

-He’s American, so while it’s stereotyping, he definitely has a lot of self-confidence, belief in himself and his team and a ‘never-say-die’ attitude. He’s incredibly bright and Ivy League educated and he’s quite transparent and honest when talking with the press. I know you Brits detest showing emotion and having a bit of personality 😉, so I do think that will grate at times, especially if results aren’t going well. I know it rubbed Leeds fans the wrong way quite often. So just prepare yourself.

-This will be the first time since he came to Europe that he won’t be following an incredibly successful manager. At Salzburg, it was Marco Rose who won everything there and left to become the Monchengladbach manager. He then followed one of the brightest, if not the brightest young managerial talent in the world at Leipzig with Nagelsmann. And then of course at Leeds, following a living legend who brought glory and good times to the club that supporters hadn’t seen in nearly a generation. I think it’ll do him a world of good coming in after a man who was, by most accounts, universally disliked by supporters.

-His system has flaws, like every system does. Their pressing style left them dangerously exposed on counter attacks at times, especially at fullback. In attack, things often felt compacted and congested in the middle with not enough width in the opponents’ half or final third. The quick transitions forward, when they worked, were scintillating at times but when they break down, which happens a lot, it can be very frustrating to watch and often lead to the defensive exposure I just mentioned above. His subs often left a lot to be desired, but how much he was hamstrung by the options at his disposal, is debatable.

-His signings were definitely hit-or-miss at Leeds. Aaronson, Adams, Wober, Kristensen and probably McKennie were all signings that he pushed for. Aaronson started brightly but has faded badly as the season has worn on. Adams is up there for POTY and has been one of the first names on the team sheet all season. Jury is still out on Kristensen, but he’s probably not good enough and McKennie has shown promise and will probably be a good signing. Wober has come in and immediately been one of their best, if not best central defender. Gnonto, Rutter, Sinisterra and Rutter all seemed like decisions that were made more by the club to bring in.

-He’s not afraid to play young players. Crysencio Summerville and Sam Greenwood have both seen decent amount of playing time, especially the former. To go along with U-23’s like Gnonto, Adams, Aaronson and Sinisterra. That should bode well for players like Alcaraz, Mara, Lavia, etc. 

Genuinely unsure how this will go for him and for Saints. The Yank Lampard and Ted Lasso shouts were usually wide of the mark as Lampard is a complete idiot with no discernible playing style and only got into the managerial positions he got into through his last name. The ‘rah-rah’ Ted Lasso stuff has a little more merit, I guess, but Lasso is also a caricature and Marsch has grinded for years in the profession to get where he is. He has had his admirers across Europe for a reason.

99% of managerial stints end on some type of sour note, but I do hope there’s some really good moments in between for him and your club. Don’t plan on posting here again, but just wanted to give some thoughts on the impending appointment. I do hope it works out in the long run, even if it means relegation this season and a stint back in the Championship to right the ship. The best of luck, except for when you play my club, as always.

Nice one, Vagab0nd - interesting insight. 

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The Kraken

The Kraken

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Posted

I keep hearing the line: “we only lost by one goal”. Jones used to refer to it a lot, the fella above has said it as if it’s a positive that Marsch “only” had 3 of 10 losses that were by than one goal. It’s a meaningless stat; of course most losses in football are going to be by one goal, it’s a standard statistical pattern.

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Clueless Yank

Clueless Yank

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29 minutes ago, vagab0nd said:

He shored Leeds up defensively, compared to Bielsa, while still maintaining a system that was more attack-oriented. When he was first hired and his sole job was to keep Leeds up, it often wasn’t pretty and it was clear he was just trying to keep the unit together and pulling in the same direction. I would expect similar at Southampton over the coming months, where some of his system is integrated but not the full setup. It will help that the majority of the Saints squad played under Hassenhutl, who comes from the RB setup and has a similar playing style.

Great post and you reminded me of something else salient.

Bielsa is rightly a legend in West Yorkshire based on "body of work." By February 2022 it was pretty clear the magic was gone. Here were Bielsa's final 4 matches: 

0-3 Everton away

2-4 Man Utd home

0-6 Liverpool away

0-4 Tottenham home

 

You can get unlucky and lose 1-0 or 4-3 against the run of play -- Jesse is apparently expert in that! -- but it's hard to lose 3-0 or 4-0 or 6-0 and say things will improve if you just ride out the storm. Yeah LFC and Spurs were good but Everton was horrid.

So they weren't technically in a relegation spot when Jesse took over but they were clearly on course for relegation. Maybe that brings some solace. 

...

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DT

DT

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Posted
42 minutes ago, vagab0nd said:

American here-

I’ll keep my Premier League allegiance private, but been a fan of Marsch and have followed him pretty closely ever since he moved to Europe, so have some thoughts.

-He was pretty much screwed from the beginning with Leeds, following Bielsa. Anyone who was appointed, barring a miracle worker, was pretty much screwed. The ground that Bielsa walks on is worshipped and there were many Leeds fans willing to get relegated with him at the helm. That kind of feverish, undying loyalty from a fanbase is nearly impossible to follow and to win the fans over after that is incredibly difficult.

-I’ve read some quotes from Leeds forum(s) on here the last day or two and I’m assuming they’re pulled off of MOT. While there are some reasonable fans, that place is littered with a lot of deluded types who think way too highly of themselves and their club’s stature in the game. That could probably be said for the vast majority of supporters’ forums to be fair, but some genuinely shocking opinions there. A good portion of MOT was fuming at Marsch for not giving Joe Gelhardt enough of a look-in at striker and for sending Charlie Cresswell on loan at the beginning of the season. Gelhardt is now on loan in the Championship and Cresswell has been very up and down for Millwall this season. Take what they say with a giant grain of salt.

-He shored Leeds up defensively, compared to Bielsa, while still maintaining a system that was more attack-oriented. When he was first hired and his sole job was to keep Leeds up, it often wasn’t pretty and it was clear he was just trying to keep the unit together and pulling in the same direction. I would expect similar at Southampton over the coming months, where some of his system is integrated but not the full setup. It will help that the majority of the Saints squad played under Hassenhutl, who comes from the RB setup and has a similar playing style.

-He was pretty badly let down by them not converting their chances and some mental mistakes at the back. The underlying numbers point to a squad that should have been 2-5 spots higher up the table when he was sacked. 7 of their 10 losses in the league this season were by one goal. Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades, but that’s a Leeds side that could have easily been higher up the table if a few breaks had gone their way. Whether that’s comforting or concerning for you, is obviously up for interpretation…

-I don’t think he ever really lost the dressing room at Leeds, which IMO says a lot, since results were hard to come by. It really wasn’t until the second half of the Nottingham Forest game where it started to become obvious (at least to me), that the race was up in terms of fan support and possibly belief from the team in what he was doing. The players worked hard and looked committed throughout his tenure.  

 

-As has been stated a few times now, he’s generally thought of as a genuinely good human. Obviously that only goes so far and this profession is about winning and getting results, but after enduring Nathan Jones, it will hopefully be a breath of fresh air for the players and the fans.

-He’s American, so while it’s stereotyping, he definitely has a lot of self-confidence, belief in himself and his team and a ‘never-say-die’ attitude. He’s incredibly bright and Ivy League educated and he’s quite transparent and honest when talking with the press. I know you Brits detest showing emotion and having a bit of personality 😉, so I do think that will grate at times, especially if results aren’t going well. I know it rubbed Leeds fans the wrong way quite often. So just prepare yourself.

-This will be the first time since he came to Europe that he won’t be following an incredibly successful manager. At Salzburg, it was Marco Rose who won everything there and left to become the Monchengladbach manager. He then followed one of the brightest, if not the brightest young managerial talent in the world at Leipzig with Nagelsmann. And then of course at Leeds, following a living legend who brought glory and good times to the club that supporters hadn’t seen in nearly a generation. I think it’ll do him a world of good coming in after a man who was, by most accounts, universally disliked by supporters.

-His system has flaws, like every system does. Their pressing style left them dangerously exposed on counter attacks at times, especially at fullback. In attack, things often felt compacted and congested in the middle with not enough width in the opponents’ half or final third. The quick transitions forward, when they worked, were scintillating at times but when they break down, which happens a lot, it can be very frustrating to watch and often lead to the defensive exposure I just mentioned above. His subs often left a lot to be desired, but how much he was hamstrung by the options at his disposal, is debatable.

-His signings were definitely hit-or-miss at Leeds. Aaronson, Adams, Wober, Kristensen and probably McKennie were all signings that he pushed for. Aaronson started brightly but has faded badly as the season has worn on. Adams is up there for club POTY and has been one of the first names on the team sheet all season. Jury is still out on Kristensen, but he’s probably not good enough and McKennie has shown promise and will probably be a good signing. Wober has come in and immediately been one of their best, if not best central defender. Gnonto, Rutter, Sinisterra and Rutter all seemed like decisions that were made more by the club to bring in.

-He’s not afraid to play young players. Crysencio Summerville and Sam Greenwood have both seen decent amount of playing time, especially the former. To go along with U-23’s like Gnonto, Adams, Aaronson and Sinisterra. That should bode well for players like Alcaraz, Mara, Lavia, etc. 

Genuinely unsure how this will go for him and for Saints. The Yank Lampard and Ted Lasso shouts were usually wide of the mark as Lampard is a complete idiot with no discernible playing style and only got into the managerial positions he got into through his last name. The ‘rah-rah’ Ted Lasso stuff has a little more merit, I guess, but Lasso is also a caricature and Marsch has grinded for years in the profession to get where he is. He has had his admirers across Europe for a reason.

99% of managerial stints end on some type of sour note, but I do hope there’s some really good moments in between for him and your club. Don’t plan on posting here again, but just wanted to give some thoughts on the impending appointment. I do hope it works out in the long run, even if it means relegation this season and a stint back in the Championship to right the ship. The best of luck, except for when you play my club, as always.

thanks for this. Informative.

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saint in Den Haag

saint in Den Haag

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Posted (edited)

I was not too excited when Marsch's name was linked, however, if i had to put a list together of what i wanted in the next manager after the debacle that was Jones, it would be:

  • Be a nurturing and 'arm round the shoulder' type of manager.
  • Speaks fluent English - can't risk miscommunication or misinterpretation. the message in training needs to get across instantly.
  • Knows the league and more importantly knows the tactics / style of the remaining teams we need to play
  • has a preferred style / formation to implement straight away.. it may end up not being right, but we can't keep switching ideas between each game
  • Also has never played 3 at the back and wingbacks - had enough of that this season, for whatever reason does not suit saints. 
  • is attacking and will go for 3 points each game. - in my opinion we are too far adrift to be playing safe and going for clean sheets and draws.
  • someone who is driven to succeed and wants to prove something.
  • someone who is affable and comes across well with the fans / media
  • if we go down  - someone who could build a young exciting attacking team in the championship

so actually Marsch ticks most if not all of these boxes for me. Although i had hoped jones would have been too but where he failed on the above he failed big time (knowing the league / obvious playing style / oh dear god 3 cb's & wingbacks! /) but at least he came across well in interviews ha :)

i would have liked some of the foreign managers doing well and making a reputation for themselves (Gallardo, Juric etc) but does not make sense to where we are right now. So lets hope we have made the right decision this time!!!

Edited by saint in Den Haag
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Harry_SFC

Harry_SFC

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Posted (edited)

With Marsch's system requiring younger and more athletic players to make it work, I could see us lining up like this in a 4-2-3-1 -

Bazunu; KWP, ABK, Salisu, Perraud; Lavia, Alcaraz; Sulemena, JWP, Edozie; Adams.

Personally I'd rather see Tall Paul up top but I'm not convinced Marsch will use him to start games. 

Edited by Harry_SFC
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saintscottofthenortham

saintscottofthenortham

Posted
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Posted
5 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

With Marsch's system requiring younger and more athletic players to make it work, I could see us lining up like this in a 4-2-3-1 -

Bazunu; KWP, ABK, Salisu, Perraud; Lavia, Alcaraz; Sulemena, JWP, Edozie; Adams.

Personally I'd rather see Tall Paul up top but I'm not convinced Marsch will use him to start games. 

Marsch tried signing Che in January, so expect him to be heavily involved.

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Bad Wolf

Bad Wolf

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, macca155 said:

No and hopefully he won't look. Every club has their share.

Gotta get some positivity into the club.

PL fanbases have more than lower leagues. Even Brentford fans are getting a bit Karenish. With their boo'ing of Edozie the other week for having the audacity to be fouled.

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Bad Wolf

Bad Wolf

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7 minutes ago, saintscottofthenortham said:

Marsch tried signing Che in January, so expect him to be heavily involved.

Or did Leeds try signing him? I think the days of managers signing players are long gone. The fact that it's been so wildly reported that Jones had an involvement in signing Bree and the fact that that was considered noteworthy tells me that it was the exception.

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Charlie Wayman

Charlie Wayman

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7 hours ago, Miltonaggro said:

In the aftermath of Jones’ sacking this board feels a lot more upbeat, and a reality check has kicked in both in terms of where we are at present and likely scenario come May. I didn’t want Marsch but I have given him the same benefit of doubt I  gave Nathan Jones prior to him being officially announced. Watched a lot of video last 48 hours in terms of JM’s football and interviews.  Talked to Leeds fans I know. Football is attacking and should at least be fun and interesting, particularly with the January signings. Post Biesla Leeds didn’t back Marsch.  Interview style is cheesy to our Brit ears but he seems earnest, frank and likeable.  A vast improvement on Jones and if he’s announced potentially the right fit for us right now. Beggars can’t be choosers, particularly when the destitution is self-inflicted by your Danish guru. 

The only problem with his teams is that they can't stop the ball going into their own net.  Should work a treat here, job already done for him. 

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S-Clarke

S-Clarke

Posted
Posted
40 minutes ago, goodymatt said:

Good listen on Jesse Marsch and if he will be a good fit, as well as why Jones was sacked. 35 mins long but well worth a listen.

That's an excellent listen. You do wonder how the likes of Garth Crooks, Clinton Morrison and Paul Merson have got careers jabbering bollocks every week, yet those two guys are so switched on and speak a million times more sense than any of your traditional heavily paid pundits.

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Max

Max

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Posted

Disaster of a situation. Out of the frying pan...

Small ambition from small minded SR. This is an awful choice, he's worse than Ralph, already a proven failure in the Prem, does not instill confidence,  does not provide the presence we, and the squad, need at this time. You can try fooling yourselves that this is some inspired decision (unbelievable how many of you are trying to rationalise this) but it is truly pathetic and symptomatic of us going backwards under SR despite all that money spent. A very sad day, the writing is on the wall, and it's been daubed in shit saying we are relegated. Bugger.

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Toadhall Saint

Toadhall Saint

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Max said:

Disaster of a situation. Out of the frying pan...

Small ambition from small minded SR. This is an awful choice, he's worse than Ralph, already a proven failure in the Prem, does not instill confidence,  does not provide the presence we, and the squad, need at this time. You can try fooling yourselves that this is some inspired decision (unbelievable how many of you are trying to rationalise this) but it is truly pathetic and symptomatic of us going backwards under SR despite all that money spent. A very sad day, the writing is on the wall, and it's been daubed in shit saying we are relegated. Bugger.

And your choice would have been?

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saintant

saintant

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

That's an excellent listen. You do wonder how the likes of Garth Crooks, Clinton Morrison and Paul Merson have got careers jabbering bollocks every week, yet those two guys are so switched on and speak a million times more sense than any of your traditional heavily paid pundits.

Agree entirely. The likes of Merson, Crooks and Morrison only get gigs because they are ex pros not because they talk any kind of sense.

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saintant

saintant

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Max said:

Disaster of a situation. Out of the frying pan...

Small ambition from small minded SR. This is an awful choice, he's worse than Ralph, already a proven failure in the Prem, does not instill confidence,  does not provide the presence we, and the squad, need at this time. You can try fooling yourselves that this is some inspired decision (unbelievable how many of you are trying to rationalise this) but it is truly pathetic and symptomatic of us going backwards under SR despite all that money spent. A very sad day, the writing is on the wall, and it's been daubed in shit saying we are relegated. Bugger.

Obviously you have an alternative who would take the job and do better than Marsch. 

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S-Clarke

S-Clarke

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Max said:

Disaster of a situation. Out of the frying pan...

Small ambition from small minded SR. This is an awful choice, he's worse than Ralph, already a proven failure in the Prem, does not instill confidence,  does not provide the presence we, and the squad, need at this time. You can try fooling yourselves that this is some inspired decision (unbelievable how many of you are trying to rationalise this) but it is truly pathetic and symptomatic of us going backwards under SR despite all that money spent. A very sad day, the writing is on the wall, and it's been daubed in shit saying we are relegated. Bugger.

You keep saying the same stuff across multiple threads, but you seem to be forgetting where we are in the table and how we look to any potential appointment.

If you look at the key bits of criteria you'd want in any new Southampton manager, following Jones, it would be...

- Positive outlook and a likable demeanour.

- Ability to mesh with the profile of players at his disposal, as there is no transfer window.

- Familiarly with the league

- Speaks full English

- Experience of relegation battles and being successful in one.

If you go through the names linked....Marsch is ticking most of those for me. The main takeaway is that the players here know all about his principles, sure it went stale with Ralph at the end, but you cannot deny that when he got that 4-2-2-2 working it was bloody brilliant - and maybe a fresh voice with similar idea's can spark life in this group, who have proven they are capable of playing the way Marsch likes his teams to play.

People like Poch, Tuchel, Adkins, Benitez are just pipe dreams and bizarre shouts in my opinion. Someone like Benitez is so poorly suited to our team and the players we have, it would be a terrible match.

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Convict Colony

Convict Colony

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Max said:

Disaster of a situation. Out of the frying pan...

Small ambition from small minded SR. This is an awful choice, he's worse than Ralph, already a proven failure in the Prem, does not instill confidence,  does not provide the presence we, and the squad, need at this time. You can try fooling yourselves that this is some inspired decision (unbelievable how many of you are trying to rationalise this) but it is truly pathetic and symptomatic of us going backwards under SR despite all that money spent. A very sad day, the writing is on the wall, and it's been daubed in shit saying we are relegated. Bugger.

we've spent over 100million pounds on transfers this season !!!!!!!!

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