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Bakovnetski

By Bakovnetski,
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Ted Bates Statue

Ted Bates Statue

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Wasn’t a rumour. The Board said player morale was “rock bottom” under Ralph at Tuesday’s forum. The Ralph cultists have chosen to ignore this. 

Call me a Ralph cultist if you like but I haven't ignored this at all. If anything I hope the players fucking hate whoever next comes in, seeing as they liked Jones and they liked Wigley and look how great both of them were.

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Scoobysaint

Scoobysaint

Posted
Posted

I think Marsch could do a good job here. He took over a broken Leeds side and kept them up. This season they have had the same problems as us in not having a proven striker so have not converted decent opportunities. Hopefully we have addressed this now with the new signings and can actually start to score a few. I like the Marsch high tempo philosophy and think we have the players to suit it. I just don’t ever want to hear another Saints manger ever describe our play as “front footed and aggressive”.

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Saint Matty 76

Saint Matty 76

Posted
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Scoobysaint said:

I think Marsch could do a good job here. He took over a broken Leeds side and kept them up. This season they have had the same problems as us in not having a proven striker so have not converted decent opportunities. Hopefully we have addressed this now with the new signings and can actually start to score a few. I like the Marsch high tempo philosophy and think we have the players to suit it. I just don’t ever want to hear another Saints manger ever describe our play as “front footed and aggressive”.

(sorry American posters) but I don't think he'll be too far off a cliche in his pressers, from what I've seen.

Edited by Saint Matty 76
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HarvSFC

HarvSFC

Posted
Posted

As many have already stated, momentum is key now. Both times we've been relegated in the last 20 years our momentum was spiralling downwards, even despite building a team that was far too good for League One. 05-06 after Premier League relegation we got just 3 wins in our first 14, only 2 losses, but the 9 draws cemented us as a mid-table team. Then 09-10, despite bringing in Lambert, Hammond, Harding, Murty and Jaidi into a League One team that summer, while already having Lallana and Schneiderlin, we only won one of our first 10, which meant that with the -10 points we had to spend another season in League One. 

If we want to come straight back up then we need to stop the rot setting in. I guess Marsch could work, as Leeds battered many, but didn't have a scorer. Hasenhuttl was doing better than what Jones did with this squad and was keeping us within touching distance of safety and Marsch's tactics are similar to Hasenhuttl's, both just needed a striker this season. Whether Tall Paul is that man though remains to be seen, though. 

We're probably down though, meaning that if we do appoint a defensive minded manager, which is what this team is shouting for at the moment, then we're risking going into the Championship with a defence first manager.

The last time we scraped survival, we appointed a managerial merry go round dinosaur in Hughes. The issue there was that we then decided to give him a three year deal.

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S-Clarke

S-Clarke

Posted
Posted

Marsch will irritate many, I'm sure, but compared to Jones he's light and day. He comes from the RB way of doing things, initially manager at NY Red Bulls, won honours there, got his move to another RB group club in Salzburg, and also won honours there. He then got the 'big job' at Lipzig, but it didn't go to plan there and by all accounts their fans felt the club stitched him up and they'd have liked to have seen him given longer. Throughout all of those clubs he has followed his principles by playing a very similar 4-2-2-2 /4-3-2-1, gengenpress style. In many ways a full disciple of the Ralph/RB approach - for me that's a pretty critical factor to consider.

When you hire a manager mid season, outside of a transfer window, you need to be sure they are a fit for the players in the squad. As much as the likes of Nuno and Lage are legitimate options, you could argue that they've got their success from a very disciplined and patient tactical approach - I'd say those approaches are at odds with the tools we have in this squad. That's why Marsch makes some sense, there is a squad of players in the building vested in the way he wants to play and they bought into it under a previous manager.

In the position we are in beggars can't be choosers, and this is a reason why I felt we may hold fire and see what is available in the summer - but if Marsch is up for a short-term and long-term view, and is willing to be part of a strategic rebuild in the Championship, then I think there could be many worse choices.

I'm not totally against this one if it happens. I can actually see the logic behind it, which I couldn't see when Jones was appointed.

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Saint Matty 76

Saint Matty 76

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Marsch will irritate many, I'm sure, but compared to Jones he's light and day. He comes from the RB way of doing things, initially manager at NY Red Bulls, won honours there, got his move to another RB group club in Salzburg, and also won honours there. He then got the 'big job' at Lipzig, but it didn't go to plan there and by all accounts their fans felt the club stitched him up and they'd have liked to have seen him given longer. Throughout all of those clubs he has followed his principles by playing a very similar 4-2-2-2 /4-3-2-1, gengenpress style. In many ways a full disciple of the Ralph/RB approach - for me that's a pretty critical factor to consider.

When you hire a manager mid season, outside of a transfer window, you need to be sure they are a fit for the players in the squad. As much as the likes of Nuno and Lage are legitimate options, you could argue that they've got their success from a very disciplined and patient tactical approach - I'd say those approaches are at odds with the tools we have in this squad. That's why Marsch makes some sense, there is a squad of players in the building vested in the way he wants to play and they bought into it under a previous manager.

In the position we are in beggars can't be choosers, and this is a reason why I felt we may hold fire and see what is available in the summer - but if Marsch is up for a short-term and long-term view, and is willing to be part of a strategic rebuild in the Championship, then I think there could be many worse choices.

I'm not totally against this one if it happens. I can actually see the logic behind it, which I couldn't see when Jones was appointed.

Hard to argue with this part in particular. I completely understand why everybody thinks we're dead and buried, but I don't think we are categorically a worse team than Bournemouth, Everton, Leeds and Forest. 

A very outside chance of keeping us up this year, but having already been in charge for 6 months to bring us back up if we do go down. I think he's a very capable level of manager to have in the Championship.

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saintwbu

saintwbu

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, stknowle said:

Hmmmmmmm who better to unite and galvanise the fanbase and almost guarantee we won’t go down than Jessie Marsch recently late of Leeds Utd sacked last week for almost definitely taking them down.

He kept them up last year (Bielsa look like he was definitely taking them down) and they’re outside the relegation zone currently - they also had two games in hand when he got sacked. The fans there never wanted him (or anyone other than Bielsa), but actually I think his job there has been about okay overall.

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santolijador

santolijador

Posted
Posted (edited)

Have reflected on this today. I'd take Marsch if he signs up and stays even if we go down. Think he's a good name for the Championship and a style of football that fits on paper. 

I'd still rather others, but in the Championship, I'd take him. 

Edited by santolijador
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Crab Lungs

Crab Lungs

Posted
Posted

Wouldnt mind Marsch. If he wasn’t a Leeds cast off, I think quite a few would feel differently, but they appears to be stuck in some peoples heads.

Anyway, its not like we’ve got the pick of anyone in world football - and I can’t see the club paying compo again to get a manager mid season. 

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Saint Keef

Saint Keef

Posted
Posted

Let's face it, whoever is appointed, there will be a massive split in opinion on this site. The one thing I will say about the last bloke is, we were, with very few exceptions, all in agreement here. We sang in harmony, like a Welsh choir (sorry!) If only there was a manager out there who we'd all love. Whoever comes in there will be those who don't like it for one reason or another, but I can almost guarantee (though nothing is certain) he'll be better than the last one.....what was his name again?

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Harry_SFC

Harry_SFC

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Turkish said:

He turned us down before so would make sense we’d go after him again. Not sure what would have changed for him to take it this time 

Obviously don't know anything about the guy but on paper it would look like a pretty poor appointment (just going by his previous jobs & win rate)

Edited by Harry_SFC
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Forester

Forester

Posted
Posted

Don’t understand some of the negativity about Marsch.    Leeds were looking likely to go down when he went there a year ago, he kept them up and then they sold their two best players in Raphinha and Phillips.

He had 32 games in charge and picked up 33 points with what is in my opinion a bottom four or five squad.  And that was his first Premier League job where you would expect him to have learned a lot about the league.

So am not claiming he is a genius but it would be a solid appointment.  Could see him staying and mounting a promotion charge if the worst happened too.  

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Saint WGC

Saint WGC

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Posted

Unfortunately, this is a very tricky appointment as we don’t yet know for certain what division we will be in next year. One option is to throw money at someone like Poch till the end of the season with a big bonus for keeping us up and a get out clause whether we stay up or go down. Let’s face it, if he kept us up, the inevitable batch of big clubs would be wanting his services and he’d want to go but he’d still more than pay off any “bonus” by Saints staying in the league. Is Poch realistic, unfortunately I don’t think so barring a miracle.

Then there is an interim appointment pretty much accepting relegation is a distinct possibility but looking to bed someone in to bring the club back up.  If they perform a miracle, then they either stay on or it gives us time to find a suitable candidate to take over in the summer, either to try to avoid the current scenario happening again this time next year or to bring us back up.  This brings in names like Gerrard, Bielsa and Jesse Marsch who I actually quite like and he comes across as a positive guy. 

I believe we have to appoint someone that the fans will take to and generally is a good bloke with positive energy who will put confidence into our squad and also the fans can relate to.  We do not need an arrogant self obsessed person like we’ve just got rid of.

Honestly, I think we’ll go down so I am now talking about managers to bring us back up, know the Championship and and who are realistic. Three names who I know our fan base will probably turn their noses up at because there is a lot of premier league snobbery even on here as well as at other clubs are Gareth Ainsworth, Chris Wilder and probably my number one choice Paul Warne especially if Derby fail to get promoted from league one this season.  Mark Robins is another name who has done an amazing job at Cov considering the s*** they’ve had to put up with the last few years.


 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Streaky

Streaky

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Saint WGC said:

Unfortunately, this is a very tricky appointment as we don’t yet know for certain what division we will be in next year. One option is to throw money at someone like Poch till the end of the season with a big bonus for keeping us up and a get out clause whether we stay up or go down. Let’s face it, if he kept us up, the inevitable batch of big clubs would be wanting his services and he’d want to go but he’d still more than pay off any “bonus” by Saints staying in the league. Is Poch realistic, unfortunately I don’t think so barring a miracle.

Then there is an interim appointment pretty much accepting relegation is a distinct possibility but looking to bed someone in to bring the club back up.  If they perform a miracle, then they either stay on or it gives us time to find a suitable candidate to take over in the summer, either to try to avoid the current scenario happening again this time next year or to bring us back up.  This brings in names like Gerrard, Bielsa and Jesse Marsch who I actually quite like and he comes across as a positive guy. 

I believe we have to appoint someone that the fans will take to and generally is a good bloke with positive energy who will put confidence into our squad and also the fans can relate to.  We do not need an arrogant self obsessed person like we’ve just got rid of.

Honestly, I think we’ll go down so I am now talking about managers to bring us back up, know the Championship and and who are realistic. Three names who I know our fan base will probably turn their noses up at because there is a lot of premier league snobbery even on here as well as at other clubs are Gareth Ainsworth, Chris Wilder and probably my number one choice Paul Warne especially if Derby fail to get promoted from league one this season.  Mark Robins is another name who has done an amazing job at Cov considering the s*** they’ve had to put up with the last few years.


 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd add Michael Carrick to that list, doing amazing work at Boro. Could sell him the project and give him a 5 year contract. We are probably down anyway.

We need some stability now and a chance for all these signings to build a togetherness.

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Nolan

Nolan

Posted
Posted (edited)

BIng Ai search comes up with the following on Juric when asked about his managerial style:

Ivan Jurić’s managerial style is largely influenced by his former coach Gian Piero Gasperini, who is known for his high-intensity, attacking and pressing football. Jurić has installed a dynamic style of play in a 3-4-2-1 system that’s got everyone in Italy talking. He likes to use versatile and technically skilled players who can adapt to different roles and situations. He also demands a lot of aggression and energy from his players, both in defence and attack. He is not afraid to rotate his squad and give chances to young and inexperienced players4. He is also very passionate and expressive on the touchline, often celebrating goals with his players.

 

Bing Ai search on Marsch

Marsch is known for his high-pressing, high-intensity and attacking style of play, which he implemented at RB Salzburg in Austria, where he won two league titles and reached the Champions League knockout stages. He prefers to use a 4-2-2-2 system with flexible and versatile players who can switch roles and positions depending on the opposition. He is also a motivational and charismatic leader who likes to communicate with his players and staff in different languages.

 

Edited by Nolan
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DT

DT

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, Suhari said:

Interesting.

This thread seems to have evolved from 'Marsch. Fuck no.' to, 'he's half decent' in the time it's taken me to travel to Belgium and have a few beers.

It's true: the world moves quickly these days.

Leg me bring it back. Fuck no. 

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Harry_SFC

Harry_SFC

Posted
Posted
30 minutes ago, Nolan said:

BIng Ai search comes up with the following on Juric when asked about his managerial style:

Ivan Jurić’s managerial style is largely influenced by his former coach Gian Piero Gasperini, who is known for his high-intensity, attacking and pressing football. Jurić has installed a dynamic style of play in a 3-4-2-1 system that’s got everyone in Italy talking. He likes to use versatile and technically skilled players who can adapt to different roles and situations. He also demands a lot of aggression and energy from his players, both in defence and attack. He is not afraid to rotate his squad and give chances to young and inexperienced players4. He is also very passionate and expressive on the touchline, often celebrating goals with his players.

 

Bing Ai search on Marsch

Marsch is known for his high-pressing, high-intensity and attacking style of play, which he implemented at RB Salzburg in Austria, where he won two league titles and reached the Champions League knockout stages. He prefers to use a 4-2-2-2 system with flexible and versatile players who can switch roles and positions depending on the opposition. He is also a motivational and charismatic leader who likes to communicate with his players and staff in different languages.

 

He demands a lot of aggression? I won't believe it until I see the xG aggression stats. 

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Singapore Saint

Singapore Saint

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Streaky said:

I'd add Michael Carrick to that list, doing amazing work at Boro. Could sell him the project and give him a 5 year contract. We are probably down anyway.

We need some stability now and a chance for all these signings to build a togetherness.

I would take either Carrick or Rooney (no, I'm not a Man U fan), both would do a splendid job for us.

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DonnieD

DonnieD

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, Colinjb said:

It needs to be someone with some gravitas. We have a fractured squad, youngsters in need of leadership and a few newer players in need of some much needed confidence in what they have walked into. 

Jesse Marsch is not that man.

If it becomes a case of "show us your medals", Marsch could point to:

Coaching:

New York Red Bulls Supporters' Shield: 2015, 2018

Red Bull Salzburg, Austrian Bundesliga: 2019–20, 2020–21

Austrian Cup 2019–20, 2020–21

Individual: MLS Coach of the Year 2015

 

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Pilchards

Pilchards

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Streaky said:

I'd add Michael Carrick to that list, doing amazing work at Boro. Could sell him the project and give him a 5 year contract. We are probably down anyway.

We need some stability now and a chance for all these signings to build a togetherness.

Since Michael Carrick's first league game in charge in October, only Burnley (36) and Sheffield United (35) have gained more Championship points than Middlesbrough (34).
 

I know Ankerson has Carrick on his radar as someone he’s interested in as he’s spoken about him at some social events he’s attended recently.

IMHO I think he won’t leave Boro as he has his whole management career ahead of him.

 

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Fitzhugh Fella

Fitzhugh Fella

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, Ted Bates Statue said:

Call me a Ralph cultist if you like but I haven't ignored this at all. If anything I hope the players fucking hate whoever next comes in, seeing as they liked Jones and they liked Wigley and look how great both of them were.

Player morale is a bit different to liking or disliking the manager. You can dislike someone but still respect their managerial abilities. Towards the end the players didn’t like Ralph and didn’t respect him. He was very aloof and distant and they had stopped listening to him which is why we are where we are. 

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