Saints 0-2 Brentford - Match Thread

[Give it to Ron]

6 hours ago, Chez said:

I think he's saying we controlled possession and passed it rather than hoof it.

When was the last time we controlled the first 15 minutes and came out flying ?

We passed it alright sideways and backwards never a threat.

People moaned about Diallo but he tried to break the lines not his fault he was selected over Lavia. He was better than JWP!

The game was lost with the start and team selection.

Edozie and Moussa have no end product but at least get us up the pitch and win free kicks .

I have said enough about Moi already !

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

8 hours ago, RedWillie said:

If that's football you can stick it.  Appalling , no entertainment whatsoever.

Reason 1. Saints were so so bad

Reason 2. Brentford time wasting, 'game management',  fake injuries,  slow to restart, complaining to refs about nothing, Disrupting play. Call it what you like but it don't call it football.

Football? That wasn't a football match it was a farce. 

Reason 2 needs to be addressed at FIFA level. This is killing the game more than VAR. All teams do it. We did it at Chelsea. Refs need to show yellow cards and give world cup style extra time

Reason 1 - that said, we probably wouldn't have scored with 20 min extra time. Ely was predictably shit. Only Alcaraz seemed to know which way the goal was. Better teams leave space as they attack us, but we have no idea how to break teams set up to defend. Run at them. Draw free kicks. We've got the best free kick specialist in the business.  Only thing slower than our play was getting to the M3 post game.

[Brissysaint]

8 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Absolutely. What a shitty little team Brentford are. Players made of glass sitting down every time the referee blew his whistle. That’s not clever or skilful or clever game management. It’s pure outright cheating.

But when we had a player go down on the 60 min mark under Ralph that was all rosy?

 

get a grip. Some are worse than others sure, but we’re no better than a lot of teams.

[Whitey Grandad]

12 minutes ago, Brissysaint said:

But when we had a player go down on the 60 min mark under Ralph that was all rosy?

 

get a grip. Some are worse than others sure, but we’re no better than a lot of teams.

I never said we were, but once or twice a game is a lot different from two players going down for every whistle. Sometimes it was only one player.

[bangkoksaint]

10 hours ago, Mr X said:

Not sure he's to blame the players just aren't good enough he can't perform miracles he's got more of a tune out of them than Jones 

Yes maybe a heat of the moment post to a degree. However his team selection leaves questions at times. Moi and Diallo? Maybe be braver and select two strikers when we need goals? There’s too much of a throwback to our play under Ralph.

[JRM]

Selles picked a team hoping we'd keep another clean sheet , our luck was bound to run out with other teams wasting chances, it will be the same this Saturday no way will Kane, Son and Richarlison not take at least one chance 

[Mr X]

1 minute ago, bangkoksaint said:

Yes maybe a heat of the moment post to a degree. However his team selection leaves questions at times. Moi and Diallo? Maybe be braver and select two strikers when we need goals? There’s too much of a throwback to our play under Ralph.

Agree on that Elyonoussi and diallo should not be starters more like third choice if noone else! We do have a lot of players that aren't premier league standard (AA Walcott bree Onuachu & more)  and herein lies the problem 

[Pamplemousse]

£100 million plus has been spent on this squad. What a horrorshow, Sport Republic deserve the grief they're getting.

[Archers Road Stand]

1 minute ago, Pamplemousse said:

£100 million plus has been spent on this squad. What a horrorshow, Sport Republic deserve the grief they're getting.

They're not even getting grief though. 

[tdmickey3]

13 minutes ago, JRM said:

Selles picked a team hoping we'd keep another clean sheet , our luck was bound to run out with other teams wasting chances, it will be the same this Saturday no way will Kane, Son and Richarlison not take at least one chance 

They will take 4

[Archers Road Stand]

15 minutes ago, JRM said:

Selles picked a team hoping we'd keep another clean sheet , our luck was bound to run out with other teams wasting chances, it will be the same this Saturday no way will Kane, Son and Richarlison not take at least one chance 

Richarlison hasn't scored in the PL for them yet either....

Another point about last night, it was a shitshow getting into the Northam because once again the home fans were being searched. Quick look over at the away entrance and nowhere near the same amount of security and searches going on. We've got to be the most accommodating away ground in the country. Away supporters get a bigger allocation than they're entitled to, most pubs I the City centre allow away fans in and it's pretty much a guaranteed 3 points. 

[rallyboy]

I've run out of different routes to the ground, I've tried all the lucky pants, slapped Ted on the foot, I've changed coats, but my wardrobe has now run out of options.

I didn't want it to come to this but it may just be up to Selles and the players from here.

[gammon cheeks]

Manager playing Ely and Diallo from the start was a bad mistake ..The likes of Aribo ,Edozie ,Orsic ,and Moussa who are pretty crap but they might create something in a team that cant score .Just a thought 

[Mr Nimbus]

Bitterly disappointing  performance and result. Think we were lucky to escape 1, possibly 2 red cards too. That Lavia challenge was grim.

I'm annoyed with myself as I had excepted relegation a while back and had been fooled into thinking we may get out of it. We still may of course, but last nights result really hurts our chances. 

Edited 16 March, 2023 by Mr Nimbus

[OldNick]

10 hours ago, Huffton said:

Thats it for me, we are down. Its on Ankersen and the recruitment team, they collectively failed to replace a 20 goal a season striker and now we literally couldn't score in a brothel. Doesn't matter how good the defence now is if you don't score you don't win. We are fucked. Well done Rasmus...

I will get the usual abuse on here, but Redmond created as many assists as JWP last season, added the odd goal and at least caused some excitement as he added a touch of pace. The haters will disagree but he would have been useful to us

[charliemiller]

Selles needs to learn.       Variables, what was different between Sundays team and last night's disgraceful performance.

Two differences  moi who put us down to ten men basically and leaving lavia on the bench .

Hopefully he learns 

 

 

[macca155]

14 minutes ago, Mr Nimbus said:

Think we were lucky to escape 1, possibly 2 red cards too. That Lavia challenge was grim.

That was right in front of us, just a hard coming together for a 50/50 ball. Players didn't complain. Emphasised Brentford's approach, every player totally committed. They just happened to run into one of our committed players.

[Mr Nimbus]

1 minute ago, macca155 said:

That was right in front of us, just a hard coming together for a 50/50 ball. Players didn't complain. Emphasised Brentford's approach, every player totally committed. They just happened to run into one of our committed players.

Lavia was too high for my liking but I can see your POV too.

[Whitey Grandad]

2 minutes ago, charliemiller said:

Selles needs to learn.       Variables, what was different between Sundays team and last night's disgraceful performance.

Two differences  moi who put us down to ten men basically and leaving lavia on the bench .

Hopefully he learns 

 

 

Have there been any indications as to why he made these changes? Surely he cannot have been saving our best team for Tottenham?

[64saint]

49 minutes ago, Pamplemousse said:

£100 million plus has been spent on this squad. What a horrorshow, Sport Republic deserve the grief they're getting.

We'll they've put there money in unlike Gao, they've got it all wrong but surely questions need asking about our recruitment department.

[OldNick]

9 hours ago, obelisk said:

Saints home form if beyond dreadful. Has been for quite a while if we're honest. The players hardly see St Mary's from one week to the next so it's no wonder they don't treat it like home. Maybe a few training sessions at St Mary's might help the clueless sods to get to know the place.

When you hand the home advantage to the away team by placing their fans in a section of the ground where they nullify ours, its always going to happen. It seems to me we give the away teams more tickets than they should be. So for say 20k sales we lose more games due to our shortterm thinking.

 

[stknowle]

10 hours ago, RedWillie said:

If that's football you can stick it.  Appalling , no entertainment whatsoever.

Reason 1. Saints were so so bad

Reason 2. Brentford time wasting, 'game management',  fake injuries,  slow to restart, complaining to refs about nothing, Disrupting play. Call it what you like but it don't call it football.

Football? That wasn't a football match it was a farce. 

Agreed, it was total shite. Yet again.They say football is an entertainment business. Going to St Mary’s is a depressing experience not an entertaining one and this has been true for the vast majority of the last 5 seasons.

Just on another note I think I’m right in saying that the date on which one of our strikers or wingers last scored a league goal is the 12th November. Ok we had the World Cup in the interim but there are still no words to adequately describe how utterly pathetic that is. 
 

[OldNick]

Just now, 64saint said:

We'll they've put there money in unlike Gao, they've got it all wrong but surely questions need asking about our recruitment department.

I think we will see if it is their money. The owner is a billionaire but that does not mean he can throw £100m away. I suspect we, the club has taken on the debt and perhaps that £100m may come back and haunt us

[OldNick]

6 minutes ago, charliemiller said:

Selles needs to learn.       Variables, what was different between Sundays team and last night's disgraceful performance.

Two differences  moi who put us down to ten men basically and leaving lavia on the bench .

Hopefully he learns 

 

 

Why he changed the team is madness. To build on the Man U result was paramount. All optimism has evaporated in an instant. 

[Whitey Grandad]

1 minute ago, OldNick said:

I think we will see if it is their money. The owner is a billionaire but that does not mean he can throw £100m away. I suspect we, the club has taken on the debt and perhaps that £100m may come back and haunt us

He won’t be a billionaire for long if he keeps spunking it away.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 minute ago, OldNick said:

Why he changed the team is madness. To build on the Man U result was paramount. All optimism has evaporated in an instant. 

Trying to be too clever.

[OldNick]

Just now, Whitey Grandad said:

He won’t be a billionaire for long if he keeps spunking it away.

I just dont think he is putting the money in. Whilst a billionaire is very wealthy, putting a tenth of your wealth doesnt add up. 

[macca155]

It's easy to moan but the cold hard truth is that we are, by some distance, the weakest side in the Prem. Might challenge Bournemouth but nobody else.

Poor managerial appointments, weak transfer windows,and crucially poor loan management, Has led us to this.

History shows that even weak sides can survive the odd season. Everton last year a prime example. You just need to get your shit together and we haven't.

Our strikers cannot score because they see too little of the ball, need two touches, and can't shoot accurately. When the ball does arrive, there are too many defenders to compete against.

The ball needs to be moved forwards at pace.

We need Tella and Smallbone, should have kept Stephens. Then spent the cash available on an effective striker.

Stephens had his detractors but last night he could have played right back to counter their aerial threat.

All this chopping and changing is killing the team. None of the changes seem to offer anything.

Edited 16 March, 2023 by macca155

[Charlie Wayman]

The criticism aimed at Elyounoussi last night was fully justified, the lad had no pace, was easily shrugged off the ball and never got his head anywhere near any 50/50 balls in the air. A winger with no pace is as useful as chocolate teapot and as for his creativity, it was non-existent. On the other hand Diallo does not deserve to be criticised for "a lack of creativity", he was in the team as a defensive midfielder not as an AMF and effectively broke up play many times and often came out of tight situations with the ball at his feet. From my viewpoint in the Itchen I thought he did alright on the night and if his selection ahead of Lavia raised eyebrows it at least gave the latter a bit of a rest from the intensity of the Old Trafford game before the test against Spurs at the weekend. The midfield creativity was supposed to come from Alcaraz and Ward-Prowse but they created nothing all evening and went missing for large chunks of the match.

If anything, Ward Prowse should be benched for a few matches as his creativity is non existent, his corners are ineffective and recently he has even lost the knack of hitting the target for free kicks in and around the box. Too many on here allow their prejudices to override their judgement.

So on to Saturday. The cause is lost and IMHO has been ever since that fiasco of a match against Villa at St Mary's so we might as well throw caution to the wind and go for it.  Sod the clean sheets I'd be happy with a 3-2 win and a memory to look back to when we are a struggling League 2 side in the years to come.

You know that things are pretty bad when even the light show is so second rate that it makes you laugh rather than gasp! Honestly it's more  fun driving past the new docks at night when the cruise liners are all lit up and setting off.

Edited 16 March, 2023 by Charlie Wayman

[Saint Billy]

Honestly, if ever a team deserved relegation it's this one. After a deserved and hard fought draw against Man U you would have expected a more confident display, but all we got was the back to the norm shit show. 

This is how I would expect a team of strangers thrown together to perform, some of which are not of good enough standard to participate anyway, and this is what we have got. 

 

[david in sweden]

1 hour ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Have there been any indications as to why he made these changes? Surely he cannot have been saving our best team for Tottenham?

3 tough games in 6 days is a big challenge for almost everyone - except maybe for Prowsey who never stops running.

On paper MU and Tottenham are the most difficult fixtures , so resting a few of "the regulars"  for 50 minutes is not the same as ignoring them

altogether and with 5 subs available  there is the chance to change things around if Plan A isn't working.    We need 100% fitness for Saturday.

 

Problem yesterday was that with 67% possession and all-out attacks in the second half..  we managed just one shot on target...= S.N.A.F.U.

In some aspects we are still playing the " Ralph model " by starting back passing when we get into the final third, which gives the opposition time

to organise themselves.

Edited 16 March, 2023 by david in sweden

[Dellman]

53 minutes ago, OldNick said:

Why he changed the team is madness. To build on the Man U result was paramount. All optimism has evaporated in an instant. 

The old idea of 'never change a winning team' seems to have died with the development of 'squads' who all have to be kept involved. it isn't helping us.

[Whitey Grandad]

6 minutes ago, Dellman said:

The old idea of 'never change a winning team' seems to have died with the development of 'squads' who all have to be kept involved. it isn't helping us.

It isn’t. Our squad isn’t good enough that we can have a top rate team for every match so it needs to be managed more intelligently. Of theses three games in a week which is the one we should have gone all out for and thrown everything at?

Our midfield was empty last night. JWP and Diallo were sitting just in front of the back four with Charley, Che, Kamaldeen and Moi playing as a front four. The centre circle was a no-go area for Saints.

[warsash saint]

Well if nothing else, I enjoyed the firework!

[AlexLaw76]

57 minutes ago, Saint Billy said:

Honestly, if ever a team deserved relegation it's this one. After a deserved and hard fought draw against Man U you would have expected a more confident display, but all we got was the back to the norm shit show. 

This is how I would expect a team of strangers thrown together to perform, some of which are not of good enough standard to participate anyway, and this is what we have got. 

 

The first half was hilariously bad. 

As asked a couple of time, anyone have the foggiest idea of what the hell the first half goal kicks were about...?

Just passive shite. 

We 100% deserve relegation, from the whacky Ankerson, the overly woke and inept Semmens, to the shite style of football for near-on 18 months 

New broom sweeps clean for me next year. New coaches, manager, CEO or what ever.

 

 

 

 

[the saint in winchester]

13 hours ago, Baird of the land said:

Get a second striker on. Peronally for me it should be Onachu. We're pumping crosses into the box, why not try and do so to a 7 foot giant.

Because, when he came on, he showed no interest in heading the ball!

[Whitey Grandad]

3 minutes ago, the saint in winchester said:

Because, when he came on, he showed no interest in heading the ball!

And the crosses were going everywhere except into the box.

[John Boy Saint]

32 minutes ago, Saint Billy said:

Honestly, if ever a team deserved relegation it's this one. After a deserved and hard fought draw against Man U you would have expected a more confident display, but all we got was the back to the norm shit show. 

This is how I would expect a team of strangers thrown together to perform, some of which are not of good enough standard to participate anyway, and this is what we have got. 

 

There were times last night when you wondered what goes on in training, because they all looked like a team of strangers!

Part of the problem is that we are just so bloody slow the majority of the time, even when were getting into the last knockings of the game, we looked like we were playing for the draw to maintain mid table obscurity! To show how comfortable Brentford were, on corners their keeper was continuing the chat with the coaching staff on the side lines then standing in the centre circle when the ball was delivered, because 20 other players were in our box. Where was the vision to send our fastest player out to the centre circle in readiness to receive a clearance, probably taking 2 Brentford players with him.

For 45 years going down the Saints through rain and shine has been one of those things I have enjoyed in life - the last few seasons have been a bloody chore though, to the point where (and I can't believe I say this) the decision whether to renew is looking to be an easy one.

On Brentford - I thought they were a decent team playing pleasing football most of the time, but that changed last night, we must have seen 30 minutes of football and an hour of then laying about on the pitch all ably assisted by the ref who I'm amazed had room in his pockets for his cards they were so stuffed full of receipts for all the crap he'd bought from Brentford.

Hey -ho

 

[East Kent Saint]

I'm resigned to relegation now , it's difficult to keep hoping . A bit like England rugby . Still I will always hope for Southampton to win in any league we end up in .

[Rich102]

I honestly don't know if any other team (bar maybe Everton) has had consistently as bad recruitment as us over the past 5 years. We're stuffed with clearly not PL level players (Mo, Diallo, Bazunu, Perraud, Armstrong, Lyanco) and those are the ones we didn't simply cut losses on (Carillo, Lemina, Gunn - apparently Orsic and Caleta-Car already). 

What worries me is that the latest round seems just as bad - Onuachu looks inexplicable to me - doesn't fit our style or the league. Alcarez aside I honestly wish we'd accepted we were screwed in Jan and saved the 60 million we spent, and used that as a war chest to rebuild in the Championship. The money would have gone a lot further.

[saintant]

6 hours ago, Give it to Ron said:

When was the last time we controlled the first 15 minutes and came out flying ?

We passed it alright sideways and backwards never a threat.

People moaned about Diallo but he tried to break the lines not his fault he was selected over Lavia. He was better than JWP!

The game was lost with the start and team selection.

Edozie and Moussa have no end product but at least get us up the pitch and win free kicks .

I have said enough about Moi already !

Exactly. The first 15 minutes of a game are among the most important and we never come flying out the traps. Ok, you can't be completely gung-ho but we never seem to play with much impetus in the opening spell of matches and that sets the tone. We must start being more attacking from the first whistle.

[obelisk]

57 minutes ago, John Boy Saint said:

Where was the vision to send our fastest player out to the centre circle in readiness to receive a clearance, probably taking 2 Brentford players with him.

 

I've been asking this question for years now. Having the whole team in the penalty area defending a corner just invites more pressure. Leaving someone upfield as an outlet just doesn't seem to be the Saints way any more for some reason.

[LaptopSaint]

59 minutes ago, the saint in winchester said:

Because, when he came on, he showed no interest in heading the ball!

That's not quite true. He was calling for it - but any crosses that did find their way into the box appeared to be aimed at that giant of a man Theo Walcott at the back post. 

More generally, it's inexplicable to me that Edozie isn't even on the bench. Sure, the end product isn't there but he can beat people and do something unexpected. And when you're one-nil down at home and rock bottom of the table doing something unexpected to ruffle a defence can't be a bad idea.

I just don't understand how we hope to create chances when even someone like me standing in the Northam can predict what our next three or four passes are going to be. 

[saintant]

1 hour ago, david in sweden said:

3 tough games in 6 days is a big challenge for almost everyone - except maybe for Prowsey who never stops running.

On paper MU and Tottenham are the most difficult fixtures , so resting a few of "the regulars"  for 50 minutes is not the same as ignoring them

altogether and with 5 subs available  there is the chance to change things around if Plan A isn't working.    We need 100% fitness for Saturday.

 

Problem yesterday was that with 67% possession and all-out attacks in the second half..  we managed just one shot on target...= S.N.A.F.U.

In some aspects we are still playing the " Ralph model " by starting back passing when we get into the final third, which gives the opposition time

to organise themselves.

One of our biggest problems is that we are hopeless against sides like Brentford who employ a low block. We just don't have the players smart enough to break down a solid defence. Most teams coming to St Marys employ a low block and this is why we win so few games at home and the football is so incredibly sterile.

[LaptopSaint]

25 minutes ago, saintant said:

One of our biggest problems is that we are hopeless against sides like Brentford who employ a low block. We just don't have the players smart enough to break down a solid defence. Most teams coming to St Marys employ a low block and this is why we win so few games at home and the football is so incredibly sterile.

Exactly this - put up two banks of four at St Marys and we don't seem to know what to do. There was actually space behind their full backs in the first half last night but we couldn't exploit it because Moi is too slow to do so, and on the other side Sulemana appeared to have been instructed not to run into it. 

For all his faults, Stuey has the ability to ask questions against the block and so does Charley from what I've seen. I just wish we were a bit braver - if we're going down let's not wonder what might have been in the last 11 games. 

 

Edited 16 March, 2023 by LaptopSaint

[OldNick]

25 minutes ago, obelisk said:

I've been asking this question for years now. Having the whole team in the penalty area defending a corner just invites more pressure. Leaving someone upfield as an outlet just doesn't seem to be the Saints way any more for some reason.

a winger each side of the pitch up top, would make them have to take some players away. The wingers are too small to do much in the box

[OldNick]

what happened to JWP and his runs into the box. It was a good idea and worked, then we stop doing it. To my mind I dont feel JWP is a defensive midfielder as he is not a tough tackling player breaking up the play in the old sense. Surely getting him up the pitch and asking him to make forward passes would help.

[Whitey Grandad]

40 minutes ago, obelisk said:

I've been asking this question for years now. Having the whole team in the penalty area defending a corner just invites more pressure. Leaving someone upfield as an outlet just doesn't seem to be the Saints way any more for some reason.

I was discussing this many years ago with my neighbour, Ivan Golac. he said that he liked to leave four players upfield at corners  Just to give the other team more to think about. A crowded penalty area does us no favours and didn't help last night.

[OldNick]

3 hours ago, OldNick said:

I will get the usual abuse on here, but Redmond created as many assists as JWP last season, added the odd goal and at least caused some excitement as he added a touch of pace. The haters will disagree but he would have been useful to us

Its pleasing that I havent had the usual negative posts about him. Perhaps more people realise he wasnt that poor and would improve the team a great deal. 

[beatlesaint]

14 minutes ago, OldNick said:

what happened to JWP and his runs into the box. It was a good idea and worked, then we stop doing it. To my mind I dont feel JWP is a defensive midfielder as he is not a tough tackling player breaking up the play in the old sense. Surely getting him up the pitch and asking him to make forward passes would help.

wasnt that a Nathan Jones tactic though ?