Duje Caleta-Car - Official: Loan to Lyon

[wild-saint]

 

2 hours ago, Give it to Ron said:

What a crock of shite! You obviously dont know a good defender when you see one.

To say he was poor until recently is rubbish and suiting your poor Jones agenda .

Watch his positioning and number of clearances and interceptions he makes.

He was outdone by Isak but have a look at how many times Bednarek and Lyanco get done too.

Touch of Mason Greenwood give your head a wobble

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/251134/Show/Duje-Caleta-Car

His ratings in the games he played prior to the Man city game suggest he was shyte. I was at 4 out of 5 of those games prior and agree with those ratings. Before those games he was so good Ralph didnt even play him. Strange for such top defender? In fact the only 2 games he had a decent game were for Jones. 

Yes he has improved and im surprised he has been dropped but he was in pretty terrible form prior to this and maybe you want remove your rose tinted glasses. 

[hypochondriac]

2 hours ago, Billy the Kidd said:

I usually agree with much you post, but seriously no manager wants players of limited ability - it is a ridiculous thing to say.

I do wonder if we dont win any of them next say 4 games if he will shortly be on his way though. Pressure is firmly on.

Apologies if I worded it clumsily. What I meant to say is that he will prioritise our players of more limited ability like Lyanco because he wants a team of scrappers with passion who play like a lower league team. 

[Black Sea Saint]

I live in Marseille and their fans still can't get over the fact that we paid them money for DCC. They remind me daily that he was one of worst defenders they'd seen at OM in years. Personally I don't think he's been that bad.

[Whitey Grandad]

3 hours ago, Saint In Cornwall said:

He got subbed at half time today so maybe he has served his punishment.....

That's very childish. 

[Osvaldorama]

54 minutes ago, Black Sea Saint said:

I live in Marseille and their fans still can't get over the fact that we paid them money for DCC. They remind me daily that he was one of worst defenders they'd seen at OM in years. Personally I don't think he's been that bad.

This shows how horrific the rest of our defenders are to be honest. 

[Billy the Kidd]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

Apologies if I worded it clumsily. What I meant to say is that he will prioritise our players of more limited ability like Lyanco because he wants a team of scrappers with passion who play like a lower league team. 

Yeah, maybe - im interested if he serves up more of the same, or if now we have a few extra players he can change it up - as in he felt he had no choice to play this way. Now we can stretch play better with quick players off a target man, maybe that changes the way we play generally.  Dont hold out much hope, but I’m willing to give him a chance over the next few weeks to do such a thing.

If he doesnt, we could be pretty fucked really.

[wild-saint]

4 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

He took one for the team, it's not like he flew in on him and took his ankles off.  I'd say it was a team card, not an ill-disciplined one by any means.

If Jones is trying to make an example of an International CB, whilst he continues to play the erratic Lyanco, then it's a problem.

International Defender? Most so t seem mind chastising our other Polish international defender. Both a bit limited regardless of the number of caps they have.

[hypochondriac]

22 minutes ago, Billy the Kidd said:

Yeah, maybe - im interested if he serves up more of the same, or if now we have a few extra players he can change it up - as in he felt he had no choice to play this way. Now we can stretch play better with quick players off a target man, maybe that changes the way we play generally.  Dont hold out much hope, but I’m willing to give him a chance over the next few weeks to do such a thing.

If he doesnt, we could be pretty fucked really.

I hope so. The main issue is in defence where there hasn't been any signs that he doesn't favour playing Bree, Lyanco, Bednarek or kwp out of position over players that fans would want like kwp at rb, Perraud, DCC etc. 

[stevegrant]

I think there's a big difference between fans getting annoyed because the manager isn't picking who they want to be picked, and fans getting annoyed because the manager doesn't seem to have any discernible selection criteria.

Ultimately we don't have the benefit of seeing what goes on at Staplewood during the week, so it might be that the XI that gets picked every week is the group of players who have performed best in training, but there doesn't appear to be any meritocracy in terms of rewarding good performances with retained places in the starting lineup. Much harder to drop everyone who has a bad game considering results this season, obviously  

[Harry_SFC]

Clearly DCC and Jones have fallen out - that is the only possible explanation for the way Jones is treating him. 

[Saint Garrett]

Absolutely baffling 

[woodsaint1]

3 hours ago, Black Sea Saint said:

I live in Marseille and their fans still can't get over the fact that we paid them money for DCC. They remind me daily that he was one of worst defenders they'd seen at OM in years. Personally I don't think he's been that bad.

Sometimes players go to a club and it just doesnt work out. Marseille signed him months after they played against him/Salzburg in the EL semi final. He was excellent for Salzburg, albeit in a less competitive league.

I think he's done well for us when called upon. Jones also talks about the need for height/physicality/aggression. Well hes the tallest CB we have and arguably the one who is the most physical (in a controlled manner unlike Lyanco the loose cannon). The red card was taking one for the team, when nobody else felt the need to stop ASM

[trousers]

5 minutes ago, Saint Garrett said:

 

 

[hypochondriac]

17 minutes ago, Saint Garrett said:

Absolutely baffling 

I have absolutely no idea what that means. So presumably he isn't going to play unless there is an injury which is just bizarre. I bet Bednarek gets on as well which is beyond mental if DCC is available. 

Edited 3 February, 2023 by hypochondriac

[Hawkswood]

8 hours ago, Saint Garrett said:

Just done some digging...apparently the players were furious with Jones after Tuesday night, especially about his comments afterwards. Which probably explains how some have ended up in the B team. I've been told "everyone wants him gone" though not sure if thats a loose term of "everyone" or actually "everyone".

We shall see. Not a surprise.

 

Well this bodes well !!!

[Turkish]

3 hours ago, Black Sea Saint said:

I live in Marseille and their fans still can't get over the fact that we paid them money for DCC. They remind me daily that he was one of worst defenders they'd seen at OM in years. Personally I don't think he's been that bad.

Doesnt really matter what they think, he’s probably been our best defender this season. Ridiculous that Jones picks Lyanco over him. I like Lyancos attitude but he’s no where near as good a player. 

[saintscottofthenortham]

9 hours ago, OldNick said:

Scott of the Northam posted a different version

I'm just catching up on all this. I got a second=hand version from a family member of Che's. I wouldn't expect the chap to get daily updates, by any means, and this was obviously pre-Newcastle 2nd leg. The guy should be back in before long, so hopefully I get a chance to do some of my own digging.

Could easily see substance in Garrett's digging. NJ was asked about players coming to him regarding a five, so there were obviously rumours doing the rounds. The only sensible reasoning behind DCC being punted down the pecking order would be a fallout, too. 

[Miltonaggro]

With this latest decision and bizarre comments Jones appears to be unravelling, which must take some doing with a brain like a bingo machine. 

[Convict Colony]

Maybe they disagreed on the comments regarding the newcastle goal in the home leg but jones is cutting off his nose to spit his face here.

If we are playing 3 at the back then DCC has to start.

[Convict Colony]

12 minutes ago, Miltonaggro said:

With this latest decision and bizarre comments Jones appears to be unravelling, which must take some doing with a brain like a bingo machine. 

[East Kent Saint]

He seems like Ralph Mk 2 with different favourites and a jump to deckchair moving , missing out the might just save us bit 😄

[Lee On Solent Saint]

14 hours ago, Black Sea Saint said:

I live in Marseille and their fans still can't get over the fact that we paid them money for DCC. They remind me daily that he was one of worst defenders they'd seen at OM in years. Personally I don't think he's been that bad.

They need to see Lyanco play

[Pamplemousse]

I like DCC personally. Does the basics right, which cannot be said for some of our others like Lyanco, Bednarek, and recently, Salisu.

[Pamplemousse]

19 hours ago, Saint Garrett said:

Just done some digging...apparently the players were furious with Jones after Tuesday night, especially about his comments afterwards. Which probably explains how some have ended up in the B team. I've been told "everyone wants him gone" though not sure if thats a loose term of "everyone" or actually "everyone".

We shall see. Not a surprise.

 

Getting Brian Clough at Leeds vibes. The fans never wanted him, the players hated him, it ended in disaster and pretty quickly. 

[Toadhall Saint]

20 minutes ago, Pamplemousse said:

Getting Brian Clough at Leeds vibes. The fans never wanted him, the players hated him, it ended in disaster and pretty quickly. 

From memory weren’t Leeds a top side when BC took over?

[CB Fry]

2 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

From memory weren’t Leeds a top side when BC took over?

Just won the league under Revie I think.

[CB Fry]

The Leeds fans didn't hate Clough because he was a terrible manager (he had also won the league in recent times), they hated him because he hated them and used to slag off Leeds and Revie etc etc.

So the Jones scenario not quite the same.

Nathan Jones, for example, is not going off to another club and winning two European Cups for a start, no matter how bloody "aggressive" his future teams are.

Edited 4 February, 2023 by CB Fry

[Toadhall Saint]

7 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

The Leeds fans didn't hate Clough because he was a terrible manager (he had also won the league in recent times), they hated him because he hated them and used to slag off Leeds and Revie etc etc.

So the Jones scenario not quite the same.

Nathan Jones, for example, is not going off to another club and winning two European Cups for a start, no matter how bloody "aggressive" his future teams are.

Aggression is the bit I don’t get - the best teams are not overly aggressive- niggly, using the dark arts yes but not overly aggressive. Most of the teams around nowadays would have lasted about 5 mins against the likes of Leeds back in the early 70’s

[Turkish]

48 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

The Leeds fans didn't hate Clough because he was a terrible manager (he had also won the league in recent times), they hated him because he hated them and used to slag off Leeds and Revie etc etc.

So the Jones scenario not quite the same.

Nathan Jones, for example, is not going off to another club and winning two European Cups for a start, no matter how bloody "aggressive" his future teams are.

The players hated him because the first thing he said to them when he arrived at Leeds was throw your medals in the bin because you’ve won them all by cheating. Jones apparently did the same thing and really upset Ward Prowse as he’s very attached to His u14 Hampshire schools cup runners up medal 

[davefizzy14]

For me Caleta-Car is our best centre back and should always be starting. 

[Turkish]

56 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

Aggression is the bit I don’t get - the best teams are not overly aggressive- niggly, using the dark arts yes but not overly aggressive. Most of the teams around nowadays would have lasted about 5 mins against the likes of Leeds back in the early 70’s

Sunday league stuff. Being aggressive and nasty etc get stuck in! Let them know you’re there! Etc etc. it’s all very amateurish. 

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

Sunday league stuff. Being aggressive and nasty etc get stuck in! Let them know you’re there! Etc etc. it’s all very amateurish. 

Exactly. You could see what Jones was about in that short clip of him shouting at the players when he first came in. I'd love to see an extended version of his training sessions as it wouldn't surprise me if they are exactly as we imagine them to be. Lower league and frankly below the level of the premier league whilst the likes of Brighton and Villa get in rolls Royce and intelligent managers who bring class to things. Our manager acts and sounds like he is at a lower level which is not something you could ever accuse Ralph, Poch or Koeman of being like. 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

5 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Sunday league stuff. Being aggressive and nasty etc get stuck in! Let them know you’re there! Etc etc. it’s all very amateurish. 

Just screams lower league small club mentality. Which is exactly where Jones should be.

[hypochondriac]

9 minutes ago, davefizzy14 said:

For me Caleta-Car is our best centre back and should always be starting. 

It's unarguable that he is top three at the very least and so at the very worst if fit he should be starting or first backup for Bella Kotchap or Salisu. 

[Whitey Grandad]

Anyone who thinks that Lyanco and Bednarek are our best two central defenders needs his head examined.

[stevegrant]

DCC watching that game today wondering how Jones is going to blame the defeat on him.

[miserableoldgit]

Some of the responses on this thread really make me laugh and typify a lot of our fanbase. For the last 2 or 3 windows I've seen any number of posts calling for us to sign him. Now I didn't know anything about him but I found his name interesting so it stuck with me. Now of course we are getting the "Nah....he is shite" and "Worst CB ever" type posts. Personally I like him and think if played properly will be a good addition.

[Turkish]

14 minutes ago, miserableoldgit said:

Some of the responses on this thread really make me laugh and typify a lot of our fanbase. For the last 2 or 3 windows I've seen any number of posts calling for us to sign him. Now I didn't know anything about him but I found his name interesting so it stuck with me. Now of course we are getting the "Nah....he is shite" and "Worst CB ever" type posts. Personally I like him and think if played properly will be a good addition.

Are we? Who has said he’s shit? Most people seem to think he’s been our best defender this season and incredible he’s behind Lyanco and Bednarek in the pecking order. 

[saintant]

15 minutes ago, miserableoldgit said:

Some of the responses on this thread really make me laugh and typify a lot of our fanbase. For the last 2 or 3 windows I've seen any number of posts calling for us to sign him. Now I didn't know anything about him but I found his name interesting so it stuck with me. Now of course we are getting the "Nah....he is shite" and "Worst CB ever" type posts. Personally I like him and think if played properly will be a good addition.

He's certainly a cut above Janny B who is now starting and it should surprise nobody that we now look weaker defensively and have reverted to the old failing of conceding one goal swiftly followed by another.

[Harry_SFC]

DCC and ABK are the two best CB's we have when it comes to winning headers. We seem to have massive problems with conceding goals that are headers. So what does Jones do? Play neither of them. Go figure.. 

[Dusic]

Hard to really judge Selles opinion of him on one game, but thats four managers who have seemingly not been so keen on him (also dropped from Croatia squad albeit game time could be the main driver).

Interesting. I think he has looked decent in some games, but by no means some kind of superstar defender. Looked at by lots of PL clubs in the past but none made a concrete move.

We allegedly paid £15m for him but as he only had a year left it was probably a lot less.

At this point it has to be considered as a poor signing as the guy he was bought to replace has replaced him.

[Harry_SFC]

4 minutes ago, Dusic said:

Hard to really judge Selles opinion of him on one game, but thats four managers who have seemingly not been so keen on him (also dropped from Croatia squad albeit game time could be the main driver).

Interesting. I think he has looked decent in some games, but by no means some kind of superstar defender. Looked at by lots of PL clubs in the past but none made a concrete move.

We allegedly paid £15m for him but as he only had a year left it was probably a lot less.

At this point it has to be considered as a poor signing as the guy he was bought to replace has replaced him.

Orsic nowhere to be seen again either. Either they aren't doing it in training or something has been said behind the scenes. 

[Suhari]

5 minutes ago, Dusic said:

Hard to really judge Selles opinion of him on one game, but thats four managers who have seemingly not been so keen on him (also dropped from Croatia squad albeit game time could be the main driver).

Interesting. I think he has looked decent in some games, but by no means some kind of superstar defender. Looked at by lots of PL clubs in the past but none made a concrete move.

We allegedly paid £15m for him but as he only had a year left it was probably a lot less.

At this point it has to be considered as a poor signing as the guy he was bought to replace has replaced him.

I'm wondering if there's an attitude problem with him?

Rumours of a bust up with JJ. Maybe he's a bit of a cock.

[S-Clarke]

Not wishing to speculate, but maybe he was part of the 'alleged' training ground bust up and even if he was probably justified to vent some frustration to the management back then, there is still an official disciplinary process he has to follow? (otherwise you'd get every player thinking they can run riot, even if justified)

Edited 18 February, 2023 by S-Clarke

[Fitzhugh Fella]

9 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

Not wishing to speculate, but maybe he was part of the 'alleged' training ground bust up and even if he was probably justified to vent some frustration to the management back then, there is still an official disciplinary process he has to follow? (otherwise you'd get every player thinking they can run riot, even if justified)

Yes I am starting to think along those lines. Something has obviously “happened” between both Croats and the club for neither of them to have featured in the two match squads following the alleged Staplewood altercation. It’s a worry because Bednarek and Lyanco are not good enough deputies. 

[SotonianWill]

27 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Yes I am starting to think along those lines. Something has obviously “happened” between both Croats and the club for neither of them to have featured in the two match squads following the alleged Staplewood altercation. It’s a worry because Bednarek and Lyanco are not good enough deputies. 

though they were in training and looked happy, so they haven’t been moved to the B team or kept away.

[egg]

It's very odd. Orsic too. Both our Croatians. Frozen out or not considered good enough for a 20 man squad? If there was only room for one CB on the bench yesterday I can only think that Selles preferred Lyanco as he offers a bit more versatility.

[Convict Colony]

11 hours ago, Suhari said:

I'm wondering if there's an attitude problem with him?

Rumours of a bust up with JJ. Maybe he's a bit of a cock.

Judge Judy ?

[Fitzhugh Fella]

2 hours ago, SotonianWill said:

though they were in training and looked happy, so they haven’t been moved to the B team or kept away.

Good point. The mystery deepens

[Colinjb]

All I can think is if they've been frozen out recently then it may just be giving them a bit of time to reintegrate and rebuild rapport with team-mates.

Clutching at straws here mind.