Fans Forum

[hypochondriac]

22 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Yep, I'm completely with you on this. I was cautiously optimistic that he could prove to be a success, and I thought starting a 'Jones Out' thread immediately after the Brighton game was premature to say the least. But that Forest debacle, and his subsequent insistence that we actually played well (it was up there with the very worst Saints performances I have ever seen), tipped me over the edge.

We had that wonder week where we all dared to dream that we might have actually turned a corner, but he learned nothing from it and regressed back to the same turgid shite we had been subjected to prior to the Palace game (and let's be honest - we didn't play well in that game either and got very lucky with Guaita having a day to forget). 

That is more than enough evidence for me that he just isn't up to the challenge, and his general demeanour and beligerence are just the icing on the cake really. He's not only incompetent, he's a seriously unlikeable, narcissistic bullshitter along with it. Not a good combination at all. I will rejoice the day when he is no longer associated with the club, and I hope that day comes sooner rather than later.

It's kind of incredible the active dislike he has inspired in the fanbase. I have never seen anything quite like it in such a short space of time. 

[LGTL]

3 minutes ago, OldNick said:

Perhaps this may show it to be differently Do you want Nathan Jones to Manage Southampton Football Club? - The Saints - SaintsWeb

 

Turns out 48% of us were entirely and utterly correct, doesn't it. I didn't need time to realise this was going to be a complete disaster, and so it's proven. 

[hypochondriac]

7 minutes ago, LGTL said:

Turns out 48% of us were entirely and utterly correct, doesn't it. I didn't need time to realise this was going to be a complete disaster, and so it's proven. 

But even then, almost all the comments are completely fair. Many saying they worry he won't be up to it but nothing definitive or personal as some have claimed. The fanbase generally gave him a chance to show what he could do and that support ended after Forest. 

[OldNick]

Just now, LGTL said:

Turns out 48% of us were entirely and utterly correct, doesn't it. I didn't need time to realise this was going to be a complete disaster, and so it's proven. 

Self propelling prophecy though. You were not right without giving the man a chance. You were determined that you were right, and so gave him not an inch to try and get it right. Dont come back tell me fans have no influence as that is nonsense. To have to firefight from the first minute made a difficult job impossible.

[OldNick]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

But even then, almost all the comments are completely fair. Many saying they worry he won't be up to it but nothing definitive or personal as some have claimed. The fanbase generally gave him a chance to show what he could do and that support ended after Forest. 

That was just one of the threads

[hypochondriac]

Just now, OldNick said:

That was just one of the threads

If you've got some examples of multiple posters definitively writing him off before we've played the first I'd be interested to see it. Let's not rewrite history. 

[OldNick]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

If you've got some examples of multiple posters definitively writing him off before we've played the first I'd be interested to see it. Let's not rewrite history. 

well the first thread does with the 48% vote ffs

[derry]

4 hours ago, Saint Garrett said:

Rasmus seemed to think the Man City performance was the way Jones “wants” to play, so let’s see on Saturday whether that is the case. 

So why didn't he keep that team having stumbled on it. Seems to me that selection was an accident and the rest of the selections with Adams back was the real modus operandi. 

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, OldNick said:

well the first thread does with the 48% vote ffs

No it doesn't. Half the fan base saying they didn't want him to be the manager doesn't mean that they're all being personally insulting or that they want him to fail. It's an Initial impression based on his interviews, his background and his previous record. Probably more of the fanbase would have answered no in that poll about Poch when he first arrived but he immediately got fans on board with his actions. The same cannot be said for Jones at all and it isn't the fan's fault that he has deficiencies. Every fan base would be the same in our position and that's proven by the reaction of pundits and those outside the club in the last week. 

[gecko]

1 minute ago, derry said:

So why didn't he keep that team having stumbled on it. Seems to me that selection was an accident and the rest of the selections with Adams back was the real modus operandi. 

If memory serves, I'm sure I'd read somewhere that the Man City formation/tactics was actually something that players approached Jones with themselves. Perhaps that was all hearsay or I'm remembering incorrectly.

But it wouldn't surprise me given what we've seen of Jones' selections, that the one game he had less input on, is the one we actually played well and deservedly won

[niceandfriendly]

21 minutes ago, OldNick said:

Self propelling prophecy though. You were not right without giving the man a chance. You were determined that you were right, and so gave him not an inch to try and get it right. Dont come back tell me fans have no influence as that is nonsense. To have to firefight from the first minute made a difficult job impossible.

So some negative comments on a fans forum affected Nathan Jones' performance and was a significant part in his failure here? Then that even further proves he was the wrong man for the job. Deary me.

[Wilf]

9 hours ago, Saint86 said:

Semmens publucally called Jones stupid in from of a live recorded fans forum 😂 and it's then gone out. How often does that happen at a premier league club. I don't think semmens is the bad guy that the fans make him out to be tbh. 

 

 

To be fair, he said that he thought Jones said some stupid things in his recent post-match interviews, not that Jones is a stupid person; however I agree that it's still a remarkable word to use and suggests to me that Jones is on borrowed time

[Baird of the land]

15 minutes ago, gecko said:

If memory serves, I'm sure I'd read somewhere that the Man City formation/tactics was actually something that players approached Jones with themselves. Perhaps that was all hearsay or I'm remembering incorrectly.

But it wouldn't surprise me given what we've seen of Jones' selections, that the one game he had less input on, is the one we actually played well and deservedly won

No that's completely made up as far as i'm aware. Players questioned Jones about switching to 5 at the back late in the game according to Jones.

[Lord Duckhunter]

17 minutes ago, gecko said:

If memory serves, I'm sure I'd read somewhere that the Man City formation/tactics was actually something that players approached Jones with themselves. Perhaps that was all hearsay or I'm remembering incorrectly.

But it wouldn't surprise me given what we've seen of Jones' selections, that the one game he had less input on, is the one we actually played well and deservedly won

Yes that one was down to the players, Palace was down to the supporters chanting “your football is shit” first half & Everton was down to JWP locking him in the broom cupboard at half time  & delivering the team talk himself. The defeats? Oh, they are  all down to Jones though.  

Edited 8 February, 2023 by Lord Duckhunter

[OldNick]

10 minutes ago, niceandfriendly said:

So some negative comments on a fans forum affected Nathan Jones' performance and was a significant part in his failure here? Then that even further proves he was the wrong man for the job. Deary me.

Deary me, I was originally replying giving an illustration how the fan base were down on him before he started. If you believe that having the fans against you from the first minute is not a problem then Iam surprised but thats what he was up against

[Smirking_Saint]

3 hours ago, Saint Garrett said:

I think there has to be a massive front footed performance this weekend to change fans ideas of what he is about. If we start playing like that every week, and start winning every week, then fair enough, but atm, that City result was the anomaly, not the others!

TBH Ill go with what I said before, that is his position is untenable

He could win 5-0 this weekend and a vocal majority will still be waiting for him to drop the ball again.. the rot has been to quick and his comments have damaged him irreversibly

I of course just want a manager to succeed, I want to see this club maintain its PL status but without a unified fanbase I just don’t see it being possible

[Saint86]

26 minutes ago, Wilf said:

To be fair, he said that he thought Jones said some stupid things in his recent post-match interviews, not that Jones is a stupid person; however I agree that it's still a remarkable word to use and suggests to me that Jones is on borrowed time

Yes fine, but given they all know how sensitive the situation is (and Semmens most of all given it wasn't his first rodeo).. I think he knew exactly what he was saying, and he went as far as he could to make it clear he had no time for Jones.

Edited 8 February, 2023 by Saint86

[Saint86]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

It's kind of incredible the active dislike he has inspired in the fanbase. I have never seen anything quite like it in such a short space of time. 

There is an element of him being the right guy at the perfect time for this tbh.

The real judgement really should be on Rasmus. Its abundantly clear that he is Rasmus' man, that rasmus appointed him, and likely also that Rasmus is the reason he hasn't be sacekd. Jones is Jones and clearly has his flaws - but one person in particular has created this situation - and that is Rasmus, the guy leading SR who said they weren't going to interfere too much in the running of SFC.

When you add Jones' short fuse, the ease with which he gets wound up, and his atrocious media persona together, and then combine it with the club wide disaster that is unfolding under Rasmus' decision making to date - its not really a surprise that the fanbase has just gone after the obvious target. 

Edited 8 February, 2023 by Saint86

[Smirking_Saint]

54 minutes ago, OldNick said:

Self propelling prophecy though. You were not right without giving the man a chance. You were determined that you were right, and so gave him not an inch to try and get it right. Dont come back tell me fans have no influence as that is nonsense. To have to firefight from the first minute made a difficult job impossible.

What a ton of complete drivel

Ive played, coached and watched enough football to know a busted flush when I saw one, I wasn’t convinced from the off I admit and that probably had an influence in my estimation of the man but you could see against Lincoln this side had actually regressed, it was even more apparent vs Forest that this was a man woefully out of his depth and the rot has continued

As for firefighting, he was literally brought in to firefight.. its not his fault that he was a poor appointment but it is almost certainly his fault that he has accelerated the disharmony and toxicity around this club

We do, I agree, have an influence, but you surely cannot be blaming us for quite how disasterous we are on the pitch

[Whitey Grandad]

2 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Most people were underwhelmed but prepared to give him a chance. I actually praised him and thought he spoke well at his first interview. It's only really from Forest onwards that the vast majority have been against him. 

The Lincoln game had me immediately worried. I was prepared to give him a chance but it was clear from that setup that he didn't know how to manage it.

[Badger]

46 minutes ago, Wilf said:

To be fair, he said that he thought Jones said some stupid things in his recent post-match interviews, not that Jones is a stupid person; however I agree that it's still a remarkable word to use and suggests to me that Jones is on borrowed time

Based on that, he doesn’t have unanimous support of the board.
 

Which allegedly was enough for Hoddle to walk away, or for Rupert to withdraw the offfer. 

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, Millbrook Saint said:

Do the metrics they use include the ability to manage top players who think they're better than the club they play for and look at us as a stepping stone, compared to players at Luton who probably know their level and are grateful to be playing professional football

There are lots of factors that these metrics obviously don't include. The manager of a Premier League team is also its public face and is contractually obliged to face the media. Results achieved at a lower division outfit do not take into consideration the quality of the opposition.

[JRM]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

It's kind of incredible the active dislike he has inspired in the fanbase. I have never seen anything quite like it in such a short space of time. 

And some of it got personal early on.

 

19 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

There is an element of him being the right guy at the perfect time for this tbh.

The real judgement really should be on Rasmus. Its abundantly clear that he is Rasmus' man, that rasmus appointed him, and likely also that Rasmus is the reason he hasn't be sacekd. Jones is Jones and clearly has his flaws - but one person in particular has created this situation - and that is Rasmus, the guy leading SR who said they weren't going to interfere too much in the running of SFC.

When you add Jones' short fuse, the ease with which he gets wound up, and his atrocious media persona together, and then combine it with the club wide disaster that is unfolding under Rasmus' decision making to date - its not really a surprise that the fanbase has just gone after the obvious target. 

You are right, some of our fans frothing at the mouth in rage, "Nathan Jones get out of our club" , getting themselves so flustered over a bloke that I'm not convinced really wanted the job and is trying his best (yes we know his best isn't good enough but still) . Can't hate the bloke for that. He's taken lots of stick and tried to stand up for himself and in doing so made things worse. 

Rasmus convinced him to join us and paid Luton healthy compensation, its not Jones fault that Saints were so desperate to recruit him. 

Edited 8 February, 2023 by JRM

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

Yep. It's all those intangibles that you can't see in an excel spreadsheet that make it clear that he just isn't up to it. If you focus too much on the metrics then you're going to miss all that stuff. It's also what makes it clear why we missed all that sort of stuff in the summer with our signings. On paper we had a very strong squad but they missed all the intangibles like experience and ability to fight a relegation battle. 

Yes indeed. There's more to the game than just kicking a ball. For the same reasons you have given you cannot pick a team just based on how well they have done during training. 

 

And if any of these 'metrics' included xG then we know where they have gone wrong.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 minute ago, JRM said:

And some of it 

 

You are right, some of our fans frothing at the mouth in rage, "Nathan Jones get out of our club" , getting themselves so flustered over a bloke that I'm not convinced really wanted the job and is trying his best (yes we know his best isn't good enough but still) . Can't hate the bloke for that. He's taken lots of stick and tried to stand up for himself and in doing so made things worse. 

Rasmus convinced him to join us and paid Luton healthy compensation, its not Jones fault that Saints were so desperate to recruit him. 

No, you can't blame him for taking the offer. It's not his fault that he's not the right person, but he's not the right person.

[niceandfriendly]

42 minutes ago, OldNick said:

Deary me, I was originally replying giving an illustration how the fan base were down on him before he started. If you believe that having the fans against you from the first minute is not a problem then Iam surprised but thats what he was up against

You said, and I quote "To have to firefight from the first minute made a difficult job impossible." Nobody gave him abuse at the stadium early on (as far as I know), there were no Jones Out chants, all we've been able to find is some people on an internet forum thinking he wasn't the right man for the job. If that proved to make his job difficult or impossible then he's absolutely the worst man for the job. No decent, self-respecting football manager would say that some negative comments on an internet forum makes their job difficult to impossible. 

He wouldn't even last at board room level at a mid-sized paper merchants if internet comments made him struggle to do his job properly. Thankfully for NJ though I don't see him complaining about the nasty men on SaintsWeb, so I think you're just fighting a battle for him that he doesn't need or wish you to fight.

Edited 8 February, 2023 by niceandfriendly

[hypochondriac]

42 minutes ago, OldNick said:

Deary me, I was originally replying giving an illustration how the fan base were down on him before he started. If you believe that having the fans against you from the first minute is not a problem then Iam surprised but thats what he was up against

A fan base giving an initial impression of not wanting a manager is not the same as that same fan base not giving him a chance, as proven when poch came in and the majority of the fan base didn't want him yet gave him a chance to show what he can do. Jones has had that same chance and we've actually got worse which was almost impossible from where we were. 

[S-Clarke]

50 minutes ago, OldNick said:

Deary me, I was originally replying giving an illustration how the fan base were down on him before he started. If you believe that having the fans against you from the first minute is not a problem then Iam surprised but thats what he was up against

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here, are you Jones in/Jones Out or just trying to go with the unpopular opinion to stoke feeling?

Ignore the views on this forum, it's a minority view in the main. When we appointed Jones I had many convos with guys in every day life and the 100% feeling at the time was scepticism but giving him a chance, as no one really knew much about him - that was the overriding emotion during the WC period, so he wasn't vilified from day one.

There was rightfully scepticism in his appointment so as fans we were going to need some improvements or an identity change, and I don't think it's unreasonable to expect to see that in a block of fixtures against Brighton, Fulham, Forest, Everton, Villa and Brentford. All we have seen are defeats, confused performances and displays against Forest which just beggars belief.  We have got worse and given where he was starting from it was almost impossible to achieve that, so credit him for that.

He has done absolutely nothing to remove the scepticism in his appointment with the results, and even taking results out of the equation he has come across like a grade a prick and has not endeared himself to anyone associated with this club. He isn't supported by the fan base because he has alienated everyone with his actions.

Edited 8 February, 2023 by S-Clarke

[Forester]

3 hours ago, stevegrant said:

My understanding is that Semmens has had effectively zero input into the footballing side of things since the end of the January transfer window. Which is basically fine, he's the CEO, not the Director of Football.

I agree on the general point, the club is a big business and needs a CEO focussed on all aspects not just the day to day playing stuff.  But any Board member won’t enjoy turning up to meetings and being a lone voice defending the indefensible, and I think Ankersen will increasingly feel the heat if he was the loudest proponent for the appointment.  At some point the Board will say enough is enough even if he is a lone voice backing Jones.  And Ankersen will lose credibility and political capital the longer a crisis continues.

 

Let’s all hope we go 2-0 up ten minutes into Saturday and somehow get a breath of fresh air all round.  But very much hope over expectation

[Fan The Flames]

1 hour ago, OldNick said:

Self propelling prophecy though. You were not right without giving the man a chance. You were determined that you were right, and so gave him not an inch to try and get it right. Dont come back tell me fans have no influence as that is nonsense. To have to firefight from the first minute made a difficult job impossible.

You've been skirting around this for days on here and you've finally come out and said it, that you think the Jones debacle is down to the fans behaviour. Ridiculous.

[OldNick]

1 hour ago, Smirking_Saint said:

TBH Ill go with what I said before, that is his position is untenable

He could win 5-0 this weekend and a vocal majority will still be waiting for him to drop the ball again.. 

I of course just want a manager to succeed, I want to see this club maintain its PL status but without a unified fanbase I just don’t see it being possible

100% agree with those comments. He has no chance, he had no chance and it is amazing that the board do not understand that. As I stated earlier, he could win 5 in a row and then lose one and the fans would be on his back. That does not help with performances as the players will be edgy. I doubt they look forward to playing at SMS and apart from a small period under Ralph it has been like it for a long time, since Koeman I would say. There were of course some good days when we got to the League cup final beating Liverpool but you again could sense that the fans were waiting to snap as Puel was not mr personality. Even under Koeman there were times when we were complaining, but that is the football fan, always knows better than those at the top (I'm sure i'm included in that)

[OldNick]

11 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

You've been skirting around this for days on here and you've finally come out and said it, that you think the Jones debacle is down to the fans behaviour. Ridiculous.

Dont be so ridiculous, it is of course not down to the fans, they have contributed. The manager, the board, the players have all got their place in this. The fans not welcoming him is also a factor. He has done little to help his cause by saying things in his attempt to defend himself but of course it has gone to make things worse. Brentford and his treatment of Lavia and thinking Theo could save the day showed he is floundering and I then turned that he should go.

Edited 8 February, 2023 by OldNick

[Smirking_Saint]

2 minutes ago, OldNick said:

100% agree with those comments. He has no chance, he had no chance and it is amazing that the board do not understand that. As I stated earlier, he could win 5 in a row and then lose one and the fans would be on his back. That does not help with performances as the players will be edgy. I doubt they look forward to playing at SMS and apart from a small period under Ralph it has been like it for a long time, since Koeman I would say. There were of course some good days when we got to the League cup final beating Liverpool but you again could sense that the fans were waiting to snap as Puel was not mr personality. Even under Koeman there were times when we were complaining, but that is the football fan, always knows better than those at the top (I'm sure i'm included in that)

I don’t think we’re anywhere near as bad as a fanbase as most make out, we are of course, on the forum pretty polarised but like any online forum or social media presence those in these ‘forums’ tend to be the most outspoken in either camp (in/out)

Ive never really seen the fanbase mood as low as it was under Ralph vs Brentford last year, I was in the directors box for that one and Ive never seen the heirarchy as uncomfortable as they were that day

As for Jones ive never seen us quite this outspoken either, and I do think its warranted to an extent, not necessarily the personal stuff but almost certainly the anti jones feel

I don’t think he is up to the task, thats the primary issue and one felt by the majority including outside footballing experts/pundits but most importantly he has done nothing but damage his own position with his terrible PR in press conferences whether it’s attacking the fans, his own self awareness or just calling us ‘they’

Ive met Ankerson, he is arrogant but he is almost certainly not stupid and almost certainly does not suffer fools which is why I find Jones’ continued employment even more baffling

[Fan The Flames]

10 minutes ago, OldNick said:

Dont be so ridiculous, it is of course not down to the fans, they have contributed. The manager, the board, the players have all got their place in this. The fans not welcoming him is also a factor. He has done little to help his cause by saying things in his attempt to defend himself but of course it has gone to make things worse. Brentford and his treatment of Lavia and thinking Theo could save the day showed he is floundering and I then turned that he should go.

Your posts are littered with stuff about fans moaning, not giving Jones a chance, wanting him to fail, causing him to fail etc etc

The failure of Jones is on Jones, his football, his man management and PR has failed.

He is paid a lot of money to perform above the noise, and as someone on here said, if he can't do that, then it's just more evidence that he is not up to the job.

Edited 8 February, 2023 by Fan The Flames

[OldNick]

5 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

I don’t think we’re anywhere near as bad as a fanbase as most make out, we are of course, on the forum pretty polarised but like any online forum or social media presence those in these ‘forums’ tend to be the most outspoken in either camp (in/out)

Ive never really seen the fanbase mood as low as it was under Ralph vs Brentford last year, I was in the directors box for that one and Ive never seen the heirarchy as uncomfortable as they were that day

As for Jones ive never seen us quite this outspoken either, and I do think its warranted to an extent, not necessarily the personal stuff but almost certainly the anti jones feel

I don’t think he is up to the task, thats the primary issue and one felt by the majority including outside footballing experts/pundits but most importantly he has done nothing but damage his own position with his terrible PR in press conferences whether it’s attacking the fans, his own self awareness or just calling us ‘they’

Ive met Ankerson, he is arrogant but he is almost certainly not stupid and almost certainly does not suffer fools which is why I find Jones’ continued employment even more baffling

I felt the board lost credibility when they held onto Ralph so long. I had supported him early in his tenure but got bored of his poor subs and for some reason stopped the pressing. It is sad tha NJ family are Saints fans and must feel a bit of dislike to so many of our fans as they never gave him a chance. You probably are right that he is not good enough but I dont think he has beenhelped

[OldNick]

3 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

Your posts are littered with stuff about fans moaning, not giving Jones a chance, wanting him to fail, causing him to fail etc etc

The failure of Jones is on Jones, his football, his man management and PR has failed.

He is paid a lot of money to perform above the noise, and as someone on here said, if he can't do that, then it's just more evidence that he is not up to the job.

I dont disagree, I do believe that and its hard for anybody to say the fans werent on him from the first minute or at best the first game. We believed we were above NJ and in many cases before

[Fan The Flames]

1 minute ago, OldNick said:

I dont disagree, I do believe that and its hard for anybody to say the fans werent on him from the first minute or at best the first game. We believed we were above NJ and in many cases before

But the fans were right, this job was above Jones, as it has been proven. Just because the opinion wasn't nice doesn't mean it was wrong and it certainly doesn't mean it was instrumental in his downfall.

People gave him a chance, more than you care to admit and things turned shitty only when his poor football was dished up. 

Yes it's horrible for his saints supporting family, but it's just football, none of the stuff said is real. People don't hate the person, they hate the persona.

[saintwbu]

It is possible to think Jones probably won’t be a success here, and maybe shouldn’t still be in the job, but still also acknowledge that he has been up against it from day one. I think a lot of people wanted Ralph out in the belief that he might be replaced by someone a bit more of a name (which was unlikely to ever happen) who may galvanise the fanbase. As soon as it became clear that wouldn’t be the case, the mood changed. A lot of the rhetoric around NJ has been about ‘giving him a chance’ rather than openly backing him to be a success. That isn’t to excuse some of the performances, team selection and comments, but i think it would be disingenuous to suggest he’s had it easy since he walked in the door and to me there’s no doubt that some of his behaviour has come out of the way he’s felt treated by the fanbase (and sections of the media). Even the top managers have moments of madness in interviews & press conference - Klopp particularly - when things aren’t going their way, and that’s without feeling like 90% of the fanbase want you out and even sometimes are wishing you to fail. Jones probably won’t last much longer here, but it feels he has felt the brunt of a number of years of frustration from a pretty worn down fanbase, and I sympathise with him for that - he didn’t appoint himself, if he’s not up to it then that’s not his fault. 

[Weston Super Saint]

30 minutes ago, OldNick said:

Dont be so ridiculous, it is of course not down to the fans, they have contributed. The manager, the board, the players have all got their place in this. The fans not welcoming him is also a factor. He has done little to help his cause by saying things in his attempt to defend himself but of course it has gone to make things worse. Brentford and his treatment of Lavia and thinking Theo could save the day showed he is floundering and I then turned that he should go.

What's the old adage?  Respect is earned?

I'd say the vast majority of the fan base were sceptical of his appointment given his past achievements (manager of the year in the 6th best league in the world aside!), but were willing to give him a chance to show what he can do.  The fact he'd had the whole WC break to plan and coach then delivered the pile of shit that he did, didn't do much to earn the respect from many.

[Weston Super Saint]

2 minutes ago, saintwbu said:

It is possible to think Jones probably won’t be a success here, and maybe shouldn’t still be in the job, but still also acknowledge that he has been up against it from day one. I think a lot of people wanted Ralph out in the belief that he might be replaced by someone a bit more of a name (which was unlikely to ever happen) who may galvanise the fanbase. As soon as it became clear that wouldn’t be the case, the mood changed. A lot of the rhetoric around NJ has been about ‘giving him a chance’ rather than openly backing him to be a success. That isn’t to excuse some of the performances, team selection and comments, but i think it would be disingenuous to suggest he’s had it easy since he walked in the door and to me there’s no doubt that some of his behaviour has come out of the way he’s felt treated by the fanbase (and sections of the media). Even the top managers have moments of madness in interviews & press conference - Klopp particularly - when things aren’t going their way, and that’s without feeling like 90% of the fanbase want you out and even sometimes are wishing you to fail. Jones probably won’t last much longer here, but it feels he has felt the brunt of a number of years of frustration from a pretty worn down fanbase, and I sympathise with him for that - he didn’t appoint himself, if he’s not up to it then that’s not his fault. 

Many people have already said it's not his fault he's the wrong person.  Doesn't mean it's not right and therefore needs to be changed.

[saintwbu]

Just now, Weston Super Saint said:

Many people have already said it's not his fault he's the wrong person.  Doesn't mean it's not right and therefore needs to be changed.

Which isn’t anything i’ve disagreed with, but some on here are suggesting he hasn’t been up against it and that fans not being behind him won’t be a contributing factor to failure, which i’m sure it can be. 

[OldNick]

Just now, Weston Super Saint said:

What's the old adage?  Respect is earned?

I'd say the vast majority of the fan base were sceptical of his appointment given his past achievements (manager of the year in the 6th best league in the world aside!), but were willing to give him a chance to show what he can do.  The fact he'd had the whole WC break to plan and coach then delivered the pile of shit that he did, didn't do much to earn the respect from many.

all fair points, but it doesn't reflect the shoddy way many fans treated his appointed him from the first moment. He is a dead man walking and I truly hope he can get us 3 points Saturday, not for him to succeed but we as a club get 3 points ffs.Then sack him ut lets not wish a defeat just so he has to go

[Weston Super Saint]

4 minutes ago, OldNick said:

all fair points, but it doesn't reflect the shoddy way many fans treated his appointed him from the first moment. He is a dead man walking and I truly hope he can get us 3 points Saturday, not for him to succeed but we as a club get 3 points ffs.Then sack him ut lets not wish a defeat just so he has to go

No different to Poch.  In fact, if memory serves, Poch got a much worse reception and way more scepticism than Jones, who has probably benefitted from a little 'benefit of doubt' from the fans precisely because of what Poch achieved.

The difference is Poch earnt that respect by virtue of his results.  Jones hasn't done that with his results nor with his comments (remember the 'they' remarks slipped in very early in his tenure).

[OldNick]

2 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

No different to Poch.  In fact, if memory serves, Poch got a much worse reception and way more scepticism than Jones, who has probably benefitted from a little 'benefit of doubt' from the fans precisely because of what Poch achieved.

The difference is Poch earnt that respect by virtue of his results.  Jones hasn't done that with his results nor with his comments (remember the 'they' remarks slipped in very early in his tenure).

im sure you right with Poch, I was very much shouting for his corner as well. Anywaywe know hwere this is heading and NJ will be part of the tapestry of saints history

[Give it to Ron]

1 minute ago, OldNick said:

im sure you right with Poch, I was very much shouting for his corner as well. Anywaywe know hwere this is heading and NJ will be part of the tapestry of saints history

Out of interest we’re you up in arms when Adkins was sacked and Poch was appointed?

[Whitey Grandad]

21 minutes ago, saintwbu said:

It is possible to think Jones probably won’t be a success here, and maybe shouldn’t still be in the job, but still also acknowledge that he has been up against it from day one. I think a lot of people wanted Ralph out in the belief that he might be replaced by someone a bit more of a name (which was unlikely to ever happen) who may galvanise the fanbase. As soon as it became clear that wouldn’t be the case, the mood changed. A lot of the rhetoric around NJ has been about ‘giving him a chance’ rather than openly backing him to be a success. That isn’t to excuse some of the performances, team selection and comments, but i think it would be disingenuous to suggest he’s had it easy since he walked in the door and to me there’s no doubt that some of his behaviour has come out of the way he’s felt treated by the fanbase (and sections of the media). Even the top managers have moments of madness in interviews & press conference - Klopp particularly - when things aren’t going their way, and that’s without feeling like 90% of the fanbase want you out and even sometimes are wishing you to fail. Jones probably won’t last much longer here, but it feels he has felt the brunt of a number of years of frustration from a pretty worn down fanbase, and I sympathise with him for that - he didn’t appoint himself, if he’s not up to it then that’s not his fault. 

Er... yes and no. 

[Fan The Flames]

People really are overstating the role fans play.

Fans aren't at the training ground, in the changing room, at team selection meetings, managers briefings, press conferences. Fans are on message boards, that have no impact on the manager (unless you go reading them and posting on them) and in the ground, and the ground fans are the most forgiving.

All Jones had to do was display a football indentity, some good performances and show progress. He didn't even have to win loads, just show some progress.

There was a massive uplift in support when we beat Man City, the will was there to get behind him. A few more of those performances and the detracting voices would have been drowned out.

This didn't happen, coupled with his awful behaviour and we find ourselves where we are.

He was no more up against it then a lot of managers of clubs of our ilk, your Dyches, your Moyes's, your Parkers.

[OldNick]

9 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said:

Out of interest we’re you up in arms when Adkins was sacked and Poch was appointed?

No i was not. I didn't care for his soundbites 

[OldNick]

6 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

People really are overstating the role fans play.

Fans aren't at the training ground, in the changing room, at team selection meetings, managers briefings, press conferences. Fans are on message boards, that have no impact on the manager (unless you go reading them and posting on them) and in the ground, and the ground fans are the most forgiving.

All Jones had to do was display a football indentity, some good performances and show progress. He didn't even have to win loads, just show some progress.

There was a massive uplift in support when we beat Man City, the will was there to get behind him. A few more of those performances and the detracting voices would have been drowned out.

This didn't happen, coupled with his awful behaviour and we find ourselves where we are.

He was no more up against it then a lot of managers of clubs of our ilk, your Dyches, your Moyes's, your Parkers.

I think that is fair, but to think that fan supportis not important you should listen to Dyche's pre game words last week.

Our PR team should have got a proper message out that put Nathan in a good light. He obviously has no training in  PR lol. 

[aintforever]

2 hours ago, OldNick said:

If you believe that having the fans against you from the first minute is not a problem then Iam surprised but thats what he was up against

No different to Pochettino.