Kamaldeen Sulemana

[the boy from saints]

Him and Mara were the first down the tunnel after the lap yesterday - both appeared to be totally uninterested and on their phones.

[Whitey Grandad]

35 minutes ago, the boy from saints said:

Him and Mara were the first down the tunnel after the lap yesterday - both appeared to be totally uninterested and on their phones.

…to their agents?

[Dark Munster]

6 hours ago, ErwinK1961 said:

Bazunu, Lyanco, Hoedt, Vestergaard, Perraud, Diallo, Lemina, Moi, Sulemana, Carillo, Onuachu.

Gunn, Caleta-Car, Bella-Kotchap, Salisu, Charles, Boufal, Mara, Djenepo, Stewart

We’ll never know exact figures, but by my reckoning that’s c. £270m spent… with next to nothing in return.

Shockingly bad. And you can add that lunatic Dani "Headbutt" Osvaldo to that sorry list.

[malcolm waldron]

11 hours ago, ErwinK1961 said:

Bazunu, Lyanco, Hoedt, Vestergaard, Perraud, Diallo, Lemina, Moi, Sulemana, Carillo, Onuachu.

Gunn, Caleta-Car, Bella-Kotchap, Salisu, Charles, Boufal, Mara, Djenepo, Stewart

We’ll never know exact figures, but by my reckoning that’s c. £270m spent… with next to nothing in return.

Can I add Edozie and Larios on the bench please.  And maybe Orsic too.....

[Dman]

34 minutes ago, malcolm waldron said:

Can I add Edozie and Larios on the bench please.  And maybe Orsic too.....

Fucking hell, I forgot about him 😂

[Dman]

As much as Sulemana has been a bit (bit being an understatement) of a let down, I think he's been criminally under used this season. 

A player like him, a bit off the cuff - limited techinical ability, but quick and direct, simply doesn't suit a Russell Martin team. He's a luxury player, but one who could have made the difference this season. 

[Rebel]

2 minutes ago, Dman said:

As much as Sulemana has been a bit (bit being an understatement) of a let down, I think he's been criminally under used this season. 

A player like him, a bit off the cuff - limited techinical ability, but quick and direct, simply doesn't suit a Russell Martin team. He's a luxury player, but one who could have made the difference this season. 

But he has no end product - no final pass or shot.  He's got pace and some tricky feet - but no awareness or game intelligence -and his positioning is terrible.

And I get the impression he doesn't really want to learn those things - or out the work in to get better. He seems to think he is the best there is already.

How we managed to pay the best part of £25M for a player who only played 34 games and scored 5 goals across 2 season with Stade Rennais in the French Ligue 1 is beyond me. They are terrible stats.  We paid more than double what he was worth.  For potential I guess - but based on what!?

42 games and 2 goals - and maybe one or two assists - for Saints.

I just hope we can get more than £10M back for him when we sell him in the summer - whether we go up or stay in the Championship we need better players than Sulemana.

Even if we paid £5M for him it would still have been a waste of money.

[disconnect]

23 minutes ago, Dman said:

As much as Sulemana has been a bit (bit being an understatement) of a let down, I think he's been criminally under used this season. 

A player like him, a bit off the cuff - limited techinical ability, but quick and direct, simply doesn't suit a Russell Martin team. He's a luxury player, but one who could have made the difference this season. 

He'd do well for Leeds, who break at pace and try to score goals.

[Dman]

11 minutes ago, Rebel said:

But he has no end product - no final pass or shot.  He's got pace and some tricky feet - but no awareness or game intelligence -and his positioning is terrible.

And I get the impression he doesn't really want to learn those things - or out the work in to get better. He seems to think he is the best there is already.

How we managed to pay the best part of £25M for a player who only played 34 games and scored 5 goals across 2 season with Stade Rennais in the French Ligue 1 is beyond me. They are terrible stats.  We paid more than double what he was worth.  For potential I guess - but based on what!?

42 games and 2 goals - and maybe one or two assists - for Saints.

I just hope we can get more than £10M back for him when we sell him in the summer - whether we go up or stay in the Championship we need better players than Sulemana.

Even if we paid £5M for him it would still have been a waste of money.

Pretty similar to all of our other wingers then - especially Edozie. 

[S-Clarke]

22 hours ago, ErwinK1961 said:

Bazunu, Lyanco, Hoedt, Vestergaard, Perraud, Diallo, Lemina, Moi, Sulemana, Carillo, Onuachu.

Gunn, Caleta-Car, Bella-Kotchap, Salisu, Charles, Boufal, Mara, Djenepo, Stewart

We’ll never know exact figures, but by my reckoning that’s c. £270m spent… with next to nothing in return.

Clubs will always sign dudds, it's impossible to get it right with every signing - But we've got it back to front since 2017 with more dudds than success. 

If we go back to the Koeman days - Long, VVD, Mane, Pelle, Tadic, Toby, Bertrand - decent output from all of those. But we also signed some dudds like Juanmi, Cedric, Gardos etc. Even back to our Championship/L1 days - Puncheon, Fonte, Hammond, Cork, Lambo, Jaidi, Chappers - huge players for us. But we also signed Ryan Dickson, Danny Seaborne, De Ridder etc.

I'm still nervous about our scouting as we still threw £20m down the pan in the summer really, we should have had much better return for our investment - but once again we cocked up the big signings.

Edited April 29 by S-Clarke

[Kenilworthy]

11 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

Clubs will always sign dudds, it's impossible to get it right with every signing - But we've got it back to front since 2017 with more dudds than success. 

If we go back to the Koeman days - Long, VVD, Mane, Pelle, Tadic, Toby, Bertrand - decent output from all of those. But we also signed some dudds like Juanmi, Cedric, Gardos etc. Even back to our Championship/L1 days - Puncheon, Fonte, Hammond, Cork, Lambo, Jaidi, Chappers - huge players for us. But we also signed Ryan Dickson, Danny Seaborne, De Ridder etc.

I'm still nervous about our scouting as we still threw £20m down the pan in the summer really, we should have had much better return for our investment - but once again we cocked up the big signings.

Its a bit harsh to describe Cedric as a dud. While he wasn't at the same level as Clyne he was an important player in 2015/16, a season we are unlikely to see us match any time soon and won the Euros.

[JRM]

14 minutes ago, Kenilworthy said:

Its a bit harsh to describe Cedric as a dud. While he wasn't at the same level as Clyne he was an important player in 2015/16, a season we are unlikely to see us match any time soon and won the Euros.

And was then signed by Arsenal  , ridiculous to call Cedric a dud. 

The Euros were won by a team that had half Saints back 4, incredible really  

[pimpin4rizeal]

Wow he’s taking some flak in here .. I’d still like to give him more of a chance .. 

sure his end product had been poor but his appearances have mainly been off the bench since injury ...

a player that can beat their man as easily as he can could certainly turn this round and become a weapon 

the 

[Whitey Grandad]

10 minutes ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

Wow he’s taking some flak in here .. I’d still like to give him more of a chance .. 

sure his end product had been poor but his appearances have mainly been off the bench since injury ...

a player that can beat their man as easily as he can could certainly turn this round and become a weapon 

the 

This is no time to be playing any passengers. He’s had plenty of chances to show what he can do when there was no pressure.

[Lighthouse]

16 minutes ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

Wow he’s taking some flak in here .. I’d still like to give him more of a chance .. 

sure his end product had been poor but his appearances have mainly been off the bench since injury ...

a player that can beat their man as easily as he can could certainly turn this round and become a weapon 

the 

Of course he’s taking some flak, he’s our record signing and he’s sh*te in the Championship.

[Turkish]

28 minutes ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

Wow he’s taking some flak in here .. I’d still like to give him more of a chance .. 

sure his end product had been poor but his appearances have mainly been off the bench since injury ...

a player that can beat their man as easily as he can could certainly turn this round and become a weapon 

the 

What do you expect he’s been shite and then posts some bollocks about being able to unpick picks 100 times 

[SaintNewForest]

1 hour ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

Wow he’s taking some flak in here .. I’d still like to give him more of a chance .. 

sure his end product had been poor but his appearances have mainly been off the bench since injury ...

a player that can beat their man as easily as he can could certainly turn this round and become a weapon 

the 

Hi Kamaldeen; how's Leeds on a Friday evening?

[ErwinK1961]

Last game of the season, in a meaningless match - expecting a brace from him tomorrow.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

He missed a good chance (getting into a good position for it), wasn't as smart or physical as Adams. But, made some decent runs, we looked to pick him out, playing more central relies less on him taking on players and delivery than in pace and attack.

Something to work on, and makes us more versatile.

[gammon cheeks]

Thought he looked ok to be honest ...missed a good header but would prefer him Mara .

[Matthew Le God]

12 minutes ago, Mr X said:

the last money spent on sullemana and stewart was evidence our club talent scouts are clearly lacking 

Why have you written them off in terms of talent?

- Sulemana today is younger than Mane was when we signed him. Far too early to write him off, as some did with Mane. Sure Sulemana is frustrating due to his end product at the moment, but is clearly talented.

- Stewart hasn't played due to injury, not due to talent.

I wouldn't rule either of them out from being useful next season.

Edited June 19 by Matthew Le God

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

23 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Why have you written them off in terms of talent?

- Sulemana today is younger than Mane was when we signed him. Far too early to write him off, as some did with Mane. Sure Sulemana is frustrating due to his end product at the moment, but is clearly talented.

- Stewart hasn't played due to injury, not due to talent.

I wouldn't rule either of them out from being useful next season.

Mane scored 10 goals from 32 appearances in his first season with us and 15 goals in his second. Comparing him to Sulemana who has scored just twice for us in 45 appearances reinforces how truly shit he really is. As to Stewart, I'm not ruling him out but the first few weeks of the season will let us know what kind of impact we can expect from him.

Che, Mara, Stewart with AA, Sule, Edozie, Sam AA needs reinforcement. If Che goes off to S.Arabia (can see Sule doing the same), we will almost certainly bring in someone new but please, not Ings.

[Bad Wolf]

5 minutes ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

Mane scored 10 goals from 32 appearances in his first season with us and 15 goals in his second. Comparing him to Sulemana who has scored just twice for us in 45 appearances reinforces how truly shit he really is. As to Stewart, I'm not ruling him out but the first few weeks of the season will let us know what kind of impact we can expect from him.

Che, Mara, Stewart with AA, Sule, Edozie, Sam AA needs reinforcement. If Che goes off to S.Arabia (can see Sule doing the same), we will almost certainly bring in someone new but please, not Ings.

I've loved what I've seen so far from Stewart. I thought when he came on in the first leg of the playoff semi (I think it was the first leg anyway) he brought something totally different to the attack and looked more likely to make something happen in those 10 minutes than anyone else did all game.

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, Bad Wolf said:

I've loved what I've seen so far from Stewart. I thought when he came on in the first leg of the playoff semi (I think it was the first leg anyway) he brought something totally different to the attack and looked more likely to make something happen in those 10 minutes than anyone else did all game.

I remember people saying something similar about Seku Mara....look at the state of him as a player at Saints

[Bad Wolf]

5 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

I remember people saying something similar about Seku Mara....look at the state of him as a player at Saints

You can probably find hundreds of examples of both sides. I'm not claiming he's going to be the league's top scorer next season, just that I like what I've seen so far.

[Matthew Le God]

24 minutes ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

Mane scored 10 goals from 32 appearances in his first season with us and 15 goals in his second. Comparing him to Sulemana who has scored just twice for us in 45 appearances reinforces how truly shit he really is.

Sulemana is currently younger than Mane was on the day we signed Mane. Try comparing them when they are comparable ages in the PL. You are writing off a young inconsistent player with some very good attributes.

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

His touch is shit, in front of goal he can't shoot, his attitude stinks. Sorry, MLG, I don't see any good attributes.

Changing the subject, who's this left back Wellington from Sao Paulo?

[Lee On Solent Saint]

4 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Sulemana is currently younger than Mane was on the day we signed Mane. Try comparing them when they are comparable ages in the PL. You are writing off a young inconsistent player with some very good attributes.

There is no comparison to make. Sulemana should have ripped up the Championship last season, instead he was utter gash. 

[Midfield_General]

5 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Sulemana is currently younger than Mane was on the day we signed Mane. Try comparing them when they are comparable ages in the PL. You are writing off a young inconsistent player with some very good attributes.

Why do you think that Sadio Mane's career has any bearing on the career of Kamaldeen Sulemana? 

They are completely different players and completely unrelated to each other.

Judging the value or potential of one by the performance of the other is completely illogical. 

I'm surprised you of all people don't know this. 

(Welcome back, btw) 

[Matthew Le God]

22 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

Why do you think that Sadio Mane's career has any bearing on the career of Kamaldeen Sulemana? 

They are completely different players and completely unrelated to each other.

Judging the value or potential of one by the performance of the other is completely illogical. 

I'm surprised you of all people don't know this. 

(Welcome back, btw) 

The point was... Sulemana is still very young. Young players are generally inconsistent. I'm not at all saying he will turn out as good as Mane.

[ErwinK1961]

23 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Sulemana is currently younger than Mane was on the day we signed Mane. Try comparing them when they are comparable ages in the PL. You are writing off a young inconsistent player with some very good attributes.

If we’re making that comparison, Mane also scored 43 and had 28 assists in the two years prior to joining us, which is infinitely more than Sulemana has achieved.

[Lighthouse]

49 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

The point was... Sulemana is still very young. Young players are generally inconsistent. I'm not at all saying he will turn out as good as Mane.

I disagree, I’ve always observed Sully perform at a very consistent standard since he joined us. Shame about that Liverpool game though.

[Chez]

2 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

Sulemana is currently younger than Mane was on the day we signed Mane. Try comparing them when they are comparable ages in the PL. You are writing off a young inconsistent player with some very good attributes.

I'm with you in that I think Sulemana still offers great potential, but equally, it's worth noting that at 20 years old, Mane was scoring 19 in 29 games and then at 21, he scored 23 in 50 games for Red Bull Salzberg. At 22 got 10 in 30 for us. Let's hope Sulemana, now 22 himself, can match that.

[Roo1976]

3 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

The point was... Sulemana is still very young. Young players are generally inconsistent. I'm not at all saying he will turn out as good as Mane.

but heres hoping eh................................

[a1ex2001]

12 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

The point was... Sulemana is still very young. Young players are generally inconsistent. I'm not at all saying he will turn out as good as Mane.

This makes no sense, he is one of our most consistent players it’s just a shame that he is consistently pants.  Besides that dead rubber against Liverpool he’s never shown up, if he was good one game bad the next I’d say you had a point but he’s just bad every time he is on the pitch.

[Chewy]

There’s two other fundamental differences between Sulemana and Mara

1) Sulemana doesn’t suit our system. He’s quick, takes risks and likes to take people on. Great attributes in the right environment but not in RMs possession system. 
2) his attitude stinks. Possibly because he’s so young, possibly because he’s annoyed at his agent sending him to a relegation scrap rather than finding a better move, or possibly because he’s annoyed at getting a manager who plays a system that doesn’t support his strengths (see point 1). All are understandable reasons for being disappointed but not for having an 18 month sulk.

Until or unless there’s an attitude change, a manager change or both, there’s no future for him here. We’re short of cash, I’d take the loss and cash in for whatever we can get.

[WALK DMC]

43 minutes ago, Chewy said:

There’s two other fundamental differences between Sulemana and Mara

1) Sulemana doesn’t suit our system. He’s quick, takes risks and likes to take people on. Great attributes in the right environment but not in RMs possession system. 
 

I suspect that we will have to adapt our possession system next season. There is one thing having 80% possession against Rotherham than playing away at Man City. I can see more performances such as the playoff final where we play 3 at the back and don't dominate the ball as much. Certainly away from home that style could benefit from a pacey front man who stretches the opponents defence. Sulemana doesn't deserve to be in the team based on last seasons performances but there may yet be a role for that type of player as we adapt our style next season.

[Saint86]

Sulemana should work in our system. When you watch us play - passing the ball along the middle of the pitch, and players constantly making runs behind - smallbone, AA, Stu etc. - all constantly going up making runs through the defence one at a time like a metronome, just waiting for the killer pass to come. Sulemana should be lethal in that setup... but he hasn't been, and the question is why not? He has electric pace, he can dribble and beat a man (pace/slills) for fun, and there is evidence to say he can finish! But for saints it has never worked - is it because of injuries last year? And perhaps a paired with a negative attitude over the summer ("i'm better than the champ" - which afflicted many) that cost him game time? I do think there is a very good player in there (hopefully for saints), but time (and money) is running out to demonstrate it. Would be a bit of a leap of faith / gamble on him now.

Edited June 20 by Saint86

[Turkish]

The Ghanaian Steve De Ridder

[skintsaint]

14 hours ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

who's this left back Wellington from Sao Paulo?

Heard he is a hard defender who likes to leave the boot in.

[Turkish]

Just now, skintsaint said:

Heard he is a hard defender who likes to leave the boot in.

big, strong lad, got a bit of beef on him

[Suhari]

7 minutes ago, Turkish said:

big, strong lad, got a bit of beef on him

He's mustard.

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

10 hours ago, WALK DMC said:

I suspect that we will have to adapt our possession system next season. There is one thing having 80% possession against Rotherham than playing away at Man City. I can see more performances such as the playoff final where we play 3 at the back and don't dominate the ball as much. Certainly away from home that style could benefit from a pacey front man who stretches the opponents defence. Sulemana doesn't deserve to be in the team based on last seasons performances but there may yet be a role for that type of player as we adapt our style next season.

I can see this too which means we'll need another centre back which in turn means we have less spend for other positions... so we keep Sulemana because there aren't many idiots who will take him off our hands.

Yes, you'd think a pacey front man would suit that system, but someone needs to teach him new tricks. How often have you seen Sule run pass someone and then do a meaningful pass/cross? When he gets the ball, he first stops and goes to walking pace. Sometimes, he'll do some godawful kick 20 yards ahead and chase after it and if he gets past his man and gets to the ball first, he then stops and tries it all again. No instinct, no football brain, no good.  

[SaintsFan86]

Anyone know if Kamaldeen has any interest this summer?

[Holmes_and_Watson]

8 minutes ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

I can see this too which means we'll need another centre back which in turn means we have less spend for other positions... so we keep Sulemana because there aren't many idiots who will take him off our hands.

Yes, you'd think a pacey front man would suit that system, but someone needs to teach him new tricks. How often have you seen Sule run pass someone and then do a meaningful pass/cross? When he gets the ball, he first stops and goes to walking pace. Sometimes, he'll do some godawful kick 20 yards ahead and chase after it and if he gets past his man and gets to the ball first, he then stops and tries it all again. No instinct, no football brain, no good.  

On centre backs, ABK, DCC and Lyanco are back, possibly negating the need for a signing there.

I thought Sule might be used more centrally last season. In initial games, he'd use pace but with little end product from wide. When defenders dropped a little more off him, they were able to get back more. So there were some games he didn't get clear enough. Similarly little end product from wide. In those games, he'd try to draw players in, then burst past them. With mixed success, and little end product.

Like Alcaraz, simplifying it for him centrally to be the guy looking to run into space, seemed like a possibility. But I'd expect us to be recruiting to not have to rely on that being tried. So, a sale may be good all round.

[Whitey Grandad]

16 minutes ago, SaintsFan86 said:

Anyone know if Kamaldeen has any interest this summer?

He's not been interested all season. 

Oh. I see what you mean.

[bugenhagen]

11 hours ago, Turkish said:

The Ghanaian Steve De Ridder

Hmm... can't seem to remember much of him playing for us. Better look up some videos on Youtube to refresh my memory...

[ally_uk]

I'd sell him think he is utter garbage like Boufal or Djenepo all fart and no shit! 

[gio1saints]

On 20/06/2024 at 19:05, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

How often have you seen Sule run pass someone and then do a meaningful pass/cross? When he gets the ball, he first stops and goes to walking pace. Sometimes, he'll do some godawful kick 20 yards ahead and chase after it and if he gets past his man and gets to the ball first, he then stops and tries it all again. No instinct, no football brain, no good.  

One reason that happens is because there will be nobody waiting for that cross. KS short cutting the PB system with his pace and ability to go past players is not on the same page as the rest of the team. 
I do not agree he has no Instinct / brain or is no good. He’s just not being used to our best advantage in that system. He looks utterly frustrated and hapless each time he plays. Put him in a different system he might look world class. 
 

RM approach has done wonders for team consistency and reliability in possession - but it’s anathema to someone like KS who relies upon spontaneity and flair so much. RM has failed to train him successfully - so far.  That’s why RF is perfect for that position- but KS looks shit. RF plays as much with his head as his talent, KS is still mostly about the instinct/talent. Coach that out of him or amend it to fit the team- or see how good he can really be if you give him ball in right places and support him? That’s a  Dilemma for RM but one I think he has already decided on.  KS is too high maintenance for him. 
 I still believe KS IS a rare talent, but RM has not unlocked the secret to getting it out of him, yet. And maybe never will as he may be sacrificed to fund the purchase of s player RM might have more success with. 

 

 

Edited June 22 by gio1saints

[Whitey Grandad]

8 hours ago, gio1saints said:

One reason that happens is because there will be nobody waiting for that cross. KS short cutting the PB system with his pace and ability to go past players is not on the same page as the rest of the team. 
I do not agree he has no Instinct / brain or is no good. He’s just not being used to our best advantage in that system. He looks utterly frustrated and hapless each time he plays. Put him in a different system he might look world class. 
 

RM approach has done wonders for team consistency and reliability in possession - but it’s anathema to someone like KS who relies upon spontaneity and flair so much. RM has failed to train him successfully - so far.  That’s why RF is perfect for that position- but KS looks shit. RF plays as much with his head as his talent, KS is still mostly about the instinct/talent. Coach that out of him or amend it to fit the team- or see how good he can really be if you give him ball in right places and support him? That’s a  Dilemma for RM but one I think he has already decided on.  KS is too high maintenance for him. 
 I still believe KS IS a rare talent, but RM has not unlocked the secret to getting it out of him, yet. And maybe never will as he may be sacrificed to fund the purchase of s player RM might have more success with. 

 

 

Nobody’s going to bust a gut to get on the end of a cross that doesn’t come over. It’s not as if Sulemana looks up at any time. He just stops and waits.