Jimmy Jay Morgan not to sign a pro contract at club!

[LGTL]

Jimmy was at Chelsea before Saints got hold of him, so wouldn’t surprise me to see him end up there again. Lincoln would have been ideal to give him his debut.

I don’t blame him, I wouldn’t want to play for Nathan Jones either. 

[the saint in winchester]

Agree the club shouldn't be held to ransom by a 17 yo, but let's see it from his perspective. The first team can't score goals, he CAN score them in abundance. Jones thinks allowing him to train with the first team is enough (quote : "he is in and around the first team" Response : he's not IN it, just around it). He sees players of his age coming in from Man City and getting first team games. If that were me, I would want to move on too. So Jones should look to find a solution that would work. Give these lads games in the FA Cup early rounds (if we can stay in it). There has to be progression for them.

[Give it to Ron]

So he has 18 months left apparently so can’t see us rushing him out of the door just yet

[HarvSFC]

One day I'm going to come on here and be welcomed by good news. As I posted a few months ago when a few said they'd welcome relegation, we aren't keeping hold of anyone with an ounce of talent if we go down to the Championship, including those coming through the youth ranks with Chelsea and Man City hoovering everything up.

If he goes to Leeds that'll be disappointing and should be a big wake up call, but it won't be.

[Crab Lungs]

3 hours ago, Ldnsaint said:

he turned 17 last week, I can't believe some are blaming the club for not playing him in the first team 😂

It utterly mental. People blaming the management for not playing him - they’ve likely never seen him play. The way anger at situation manifests with our fans is strange. We’ve got some proper whoppers.

[Chez]

41 minutes ago, LGTL said:

Jimmy was at Chelsea before Saints got hold of him, so wouldn’t surprise me to see him end up there again. 

Yep. Their offer will be too good to turn down.

[woodsaint1]

1 hour ago, OldNick said:

I dont think they need to advertise its fairly open.  I think that a club went to Gascoines parents and gave them a house to get him to sign

Aye it was Spurs who gazumped  United, Fergie wasnt happy. Gazza was already a pro with Newcastle tho

[woodsaint1]

Just now, Chez said:

Yep. Their offer will be too good to turn down.

What a way to kill your career prospects. Be sent out on multiple loans by the time hes 21 and will be plying his trade in the National League soon after

[Dman]

7 minutes ago, woodsaint1 said:

What a way to kill your career prospects. Be sent out on multiple loans by the time hes 21 and will be plying his trade in the National League soon after

If he’s any good he won’t be. 

I mean I actually support the club and given the choice id jump ship at the minute. We’re a fucking mess. 

[Daft Kerplunk]

43 minutes ago, the saint in winchester said:

Agree the club shouldn't be held to ransom by a 17 yo, but let's see it from his perspective. The first team can't score goals, he CAN score them in abundance. Jones thinks allowing him to train with the first team is enough (quote : "he is in and around the first team" Response : he's not IN it, just around it). He sees players of his age coming in from Man City and getting first team games. If that were me, I would want to move on too. So Jones should look to find a solution that would work. Give these lads games in the FA Cup early rounds (if we can stay in it). There has to be progression for them.

If the pathway doesn’t exist for our own, then there’s no point in young players coming through the academy or staying that long. The players will see this and know they need to leave to play. As you rightly point out, the club is not scoring goals but the my might be happy to sign a player for £25m who looks okay at best. Not great, and another example of Semmens and Co cocking it up over the period they’ve been here, and now. That won’t change.

[EBS1980]

32 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said:

So he has 18 months left apparently so can’t see us rushing him out of the door just yet

Exactly, it’s not like we lose him for free there would be a fee if he went now or in 18 months.

We just need to show him he has a pathway and opportunities if he continues to do what he does. 

 

[egg]

2 hours ago, Barsiem said:

I would think relegation wouldn't necessarily be considered a downer for a youth player on the fringes of the first team squad.  He's more likely to get regular minutes in a lower division side than trying to break into a premier League team

Interesting perspective, buy I'm not sure that "sign on the line JJ, we're going down so you'll get more chances next season" is going to tempt the kid. Of course he wants to be part of a premier league club. 

[The Curse of St Mary's]

20 minutes ago, EBS1980 said:

Exactly, it’s not like we lose him for free there would be a fee if he went now or in 18 months.

We just need to show him he has a pathway and opportunities if he continues to do what he does. 

 

That would mean sacking Jones as there is no way his style and tactics are attractive to an up and coming talent like JJ. Plus we've seen no evidence Jones will trust youth players from his time at Luton. 

[egg]

4 minutes ago, The Curse of St Mary's said:

That would mean sacking Jones as there is no way his style and tactics are attractive to an up and coming talent like JJ. Plus we've seen no evidence Jones will trust youth players from his time at Luton. 

To be fair, maybe he had no decent kids available to him at Luton? He's had some younger players on the bench here, but given the mess we're in, I think it's understandable that he'd prefer experience on the pitch. 

[Chez]

33 minutes ago, EBS1980 said:

Exactly, it’s not like we lose him for free there would be a fee if he went now or in 18 months.

We certainly won't. The fee will cover the cost of the academy for a year or two.

Edited 24 January, 2023 by Chez

[Miltonaggro]

Time for Spunk Republic to really start thinking outside the box, sack Jones and install Jimmy-Jay as player manager. #radical #fuckalltolose

[Chez]

6 minutes ago, egg said:

To be fair, maybe he had no decent kids available to him at Luton? He's had some younger players on the bench here, but given the mess we're in, I think it's understandable that he'd prefer experience on the pitch. 

He made Justin james first choice at 18. The idea that he didn't trust young players at Luton is bollocks. 

[CamSaint]

5 minutes ago, Chez said:

He made Justin james first choice at 18. The idea that he didn't trust young players at Luton is bollocks. 

He is certainly having to work with young players here. 7 of the first team squad of 27 are 20 or under and another 10 are between 21 and 25. And he has also had some of our own youngsters, including JJM, on the bench at times although none of them have yet got onto the pitch.

[verlaine1979]

Evan Ferguson has just got 3 in 5 for Brighton at 18, so still seems to be a case of if you're good enough you're old enough, even with the money that's flooded into the league since the era of Owen and Milner.

[SNSUN]

Bright prospect wants out, the shitty season goes on. He'd get plenty of game time in the Championship next year too. I was optimistic for next season in the Championship because of the youngsters that could make the step up. Now I'm not so sure. Good riddance to him if that's the case as he doesn't sound fully committed.

I'm still hoping Diamond comes back from his injury and makes the grade with us.

[Chez]

Ralph gave Payne a debut in the Cambridge game and brought Edwards and Ballard on, but in the Sheff Wednesday and Lincoln games the youngsters (Morgan, Ballard etc.) didn't get a minute. Yes they are very young, and we are not exactly short of young players in the side, but this crop of u18s are possibly a little bit special and see themselves as equal to some of the senior pros and thus perhaps expected to get some playing time in the cup games. I am pretty sure they were glad to se the back of Ralph, but getting opportunities in a relegation dog fight is going to be tough. Next year there will be other pressures on the manager. You have to wonder if the likes of Ballard or Morgan will get any first team opportunities next season either? 

[Chez]

9 minutes ago, SNSUN said:

I'm still hoping Diamond comes back from his injury and makes the grade with us.

Likewise. Nasty injury though. 

[East Kent Saint]

Last thing Saints need , a kid with an attitude problem upsetting the team spirit 😁

[Holmes_and_Watson]

I'd like to think that the club would actually implement the pathways they go on about, from Academy players as well as those we nab from Man City.

So, I'd like to think that if he was good enough, he'd be getting some minutes.

It won;t be helped by the position we're in though, so will require some patience, if he's not clearly better.

But the coaching staff see him all the time, and would know if he was ready.

[Luke SkyWalker-Peters]

22 hours ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Play him against Blackpool this weekend. See what he has got. We did that with Small against Coventry last year. He was so far out of his depth that he was never seen again. If he smashes it up then we know what we are looking at. Personally don't see the issue with playing him. He's only a year younger than Edozie, and he's not exactly been a relevation. 

He's not a year younger than Edozie, he is 3 years younger. 3 years younger than Tino. 2 years younger than Larios and Lavia.

Notably he is 3 and a half years younger than Mara, who hasn't set the world on fire, and has so much more size and strength than (just turned 17) Morgan has now or likely will ever have.

I've watched his games for Saints U18s, the B team, England U16 and U17s and he is clearly very good for his age group. However, Mara played 1 game in the B team and scored 4 goals looking like he was playing against my 5 a side team - and we have seen how much he has struggled for most of this season. Morgan has played well for the B team, but he hasn't truly dominated. He is clearly an intelligent and technically gifted player, but so far off PL football physically. He is developing well, there is no need to throw him out there against a PL side and do him harm.

His performances, like Ballard and Doyle, have earned him opportunities in cup games against lower league opposition. Perhaps he can have a run around with 5 minutes to go in a few games, but if he seriously thinks that he is ready to contribute meaningfully then he is a bit deluded.

Only one player younger than him has got on the pitch for a PL game and that is Ethan Nwaneri - who got 1 minute. Only one other player in Morgan's school year has got on the pitch and that's Ben Doak - and he has just made 2 sub appearances in the PL and 2 in the FA Cup - all 10 minutes.

The reality is he can move to a Man City or Arsenal and be more likely to get to start a match against some Lithuanian side, or he could stay here where he is much more likely to be a full-time starter in 2 years time. I just don't know what this kid wants, if he goes out there, tears his ACL and ruins his career, then it would be hard to feel sorry for him when there is such a clear minimum age that every PL team abides by for good reason.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

44 minutes ago, Luke SkyWalker-Peters said:

He's not a year younger than Edozie, he is 3 years younger. 3 years younger than Tino. 2 years younger than Larios and Lavia.

Notably he is 3 and a half years younger than Mara, who hasn't set the world on fire, and has so much more size and strength than (just turned 17) Morgan has now or likely will ever have.

I've watched his games for Saints U18s, the B team, England U16 and U17s and he is clearly very good for his age group. However, Mara played 1 game in the B team and scored 4 goals looking like he was playing against my 5 a side team - and we have seen how much he has struggled for most of this season. Morgan has played well for the B team, but he hasn't truly dominated. He is clearly an intelligent and technically gifted player, but so far off PL football physically. He is developing well, there is no need to throw him out there against a PL side and do him harm.

His performances, like Ballard and Doyle, have earned him opportunities in cup games against lower league opposition. Perhaps he can have a run around with 5 minutes to go in a few games, but if he seriously thinks that he is ready to contribute meaningfully then he is a bit deluded.

Only one player younger than him has got on the pitch for a PL game and that is Ethan Nwaneri - who got 1 minute. Only one other player in Morgan's school year has got on the pitch and that's Ben Doak - and he has just made 2 sub appearances in the PL and 2 in the FA Cup - all 10 minutes.

The reality is he can move to a Man City or Arsenal and be more likely to get to start a match against some Lithuanian side, or he could stay here where he is much more likely to be a full-time starter in 2 years time. I just don't know what this kid wants, if he goes out there, tears his ACL and ruins his career, then it would be hard to feel sorry for him when there is such a clear minimum age that every PL team abides by for good reason.

Apologies, I thought Edozie was only 18 himself. 

[Chez]

48 minutes ago, Luke SkyWalker-Peters said:

 

The reality is he can move to a Man City or Arsenal and be more likely to get to start a match against some Lithuanian side, or he could stay here where he is much more likely to be a full-time starter in 2 years time. I just don't know what this kid wants, if he goes out there, tears his ACL and ruins his career, then it would be hard to feel sorry for him when there is such a clear minimum age that every PL team abides by for good reason.

Sure, but he could play for our B team this week, without a pro contract and tear his ACL and ruin his career. All he'd have to show for it is some Saints fans `feeling sorry for him'. We are talking about a contract from the likes of Chelsea here that will be absolutely huge and impossible to turn dow, as was the case with Dibling. 

OK, so the pathway to the first team is almost impossible, but he isn't playing first team football here either for a year or two. If that is the case, then you may as well be earning a bucket load while you progress.

When Shields came, he didn't just bring senior players, he got the club to buy in some serious youngster and also to pay serious wages in first pro contracts. With his departure, has that philosophy changed at all?  Another question is how highly do Saints rate him and does our financial model/strength allow us to compete with the big sides. Most likely not.

Edited 25 January, 2023 by Chez

[Luke SkyWalker-Peters]

1 hour ago, Chez said:

Sure, but he could play for our B team this week, without a pro contract and tear his ACL and ruin his career. All he'd have to show for it is some Saints fans `feeling sorry for him'. We are talking about a contract from the likes of Chelsea here that will be absolutely huge and impossible to turn dow, as was the case with Dibling. 

OK, so the pathway to the first team is almost impossible, but he isn't playing first team football here either for a year or two. If that is the case, then you may as well be earning a bucket load while you progress.

When Shields came, he didn't just bring senior players, he got the club to buy in some serious youngster and also to pay serious wages in first pro contracts. With his departure, has that philosophy changed at all?  Another question is how highly do Saints rate him and does our financial model/strength allow us to compete with the big sides. Most likely not.

My point was that he will be more likely to get a serious injury playing for the 1st team as he isn't physically ready. I shouldn't have said "ruins career" as well, the surgeries are so good these days that it is just missed time on the grass - and to this point I doubt players are moving to Chelsea etc for money, they know they will make far more if they can be regular PL starters and Chelsea have an excellent track record for that.

I didn't say he would play zero football for the next year or two, as I doubt that is the plan. I said, and I meant the rest of the season, he would likely play cup games against lower league opposition, with possible late sub appearances. That is more than he will get anywhere else. Next season I could see us easing him in to the squad and could be a rotational 1st team player in 12 months time - like Ferguson at Brighton (although he is way off the physical development of Ferguson). So, during the hectic Christmas schedule next season I could see him starting games at 17 years old and playing 60 or so minutes.

I doubt Chelsea would be offering far more than us. We must be offering decent money now as we have been pinching England youth players from Spurs and Bournemouth. It used to just be the likes of Yeovil. I assume that any move made is due to the player, family and agent believing it will be best for their development and future prospects.

I doubt the strategy has changed.

He is undeniably one of England's best players in his age group (born in 06), along with Dibling. They are two standout players for England and are as prospects probably the two most exciting players in our academy. We will get to see at the U17 Euros this Summer, but it is possible that they are some of the best players in their age group in the world. Southampton must rate him, him and Dibling are the two best talents we have had in a very long time. It is a shame Ralph has gone as he is suited to being a striker partner rather than a lone 9.

Would other clubs rate him? I'm sure they would, but they will also have excellent similar talents on their books. Perhaps some a year or two older or younger, but I'm sure that he would not walk into their U21 teams like he does with us.

Our model must allow us to compete with the big sides otherwise we wouldn't have been able to sign Livramento, Lavia, Larios, Edozie, ABK, Mara etc. We evidently offer decent wages, but crucially the opportunity to play. Morgan might be frustrated he isn't playing now, but he should be happy that there is only Mara and Adams ahead of him as pure strikers. It is a fantastic opportunity for any young player and should result in him getting far more minutes than anywhere else. But to answer your question, yes, evidently we offer a competitive contract.

[kristian]

22 hours ago, verlaine1979 said:

Evan Ferguson has just got 3 in 5 for Brighton at 18, so still seems to be a case of if you're good enough you're old enough, even with the money that's flooded into the league since the era of Owen and Milner.

Exactly, and Jimmy-Jay's record at u21 level absolutely blows Ferguson's (and many other strikers getting PL mins) out the water despite being younger. I do think he'd have a bit more trouble adjusting to senior professional football just due to playing style and physique, but there's not a single PL2 striker in the country with better production than JJM this season despite only being 16.

[Chez]

3 hours ago, Luke SkyWalker-Peters said:

I doubt Chelsea would be offering far more than us.

 

You wanna bet?

[Singapore Saint]

I think JJM simply doesn't want to be in a Championship club next season.

[FarehamSaintJames]

Just now, Singapore Saint said:

I think JJM simply doesn't want to be in a Championship club next season.

I don’t think anyone can really blame JJM. There isn’t a real identity about the club or clarity over which direction it’s taking.

All we know is it’s “buy young, hope to sell for profit”. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[sledger]

dont think ferguson at brighton can be used as an example he is a freak,a unit a man at a boys age jj is just a kid with a lot of promise most only go on to a career in the lower leagues if hes been bribed to leave then its cheerio,we do the same thing to other clubs.If we can hold him for 18 months i would,he will then sign a contract as he would be a mug not to as he could get injured

[Flexter1987]

GIVE Him playing Time and he will Sign 

[East Kent Saint]

It depends on who or what is driving him to look elsewhere , it’s possible that there is nothing the club can do to get him to sign . Promoting him to the first team too soon could turn out to be a mistake for both sides .

[iansums]

My Mrs knows his old man, perhaps she needs to have a word.

[SaintsLoyal]

I think he needs some realism at his age and that he wont see 1st team squad inclusions like he has done here, elsewhere.

He signed a pre contract last July and now reaching his 17th birthday has allegedly turned it down.

 

Edited 26 January, 2023 by SaintsLoyal
added the word 'elsewhere'

[sledger]

good let him waste away in the reserves oh hang on he already is

[egg]

1 hour ago, SaintsLoyal said:

I think he needs some realism at his age and that he wont see 1st team squad inclusions like he has done here.

He signed a pre contract last July and now reaching his 17th birthday has allegedly turned it down.

 

 

Where's it said that he won't sign because he's not getting first team football? I think that's an assumption. I suspect it's more likely that he doesn't want to commit to a club staring down the barrel of relegation. Who could blame him. 

[Toadhall Saint]

4 minutes ago, egg said:

Where's it said that he won't sign because he's not getting first team football? I think that's an assumption. I suspect it's more likely that he doesn't want to commit to a club staring down the barrel of relegation. Who could blame him. 

You assume……..

I assume it’s to do with money - no more no less.

[once_bitterne]

On 24/01/2023 at 17:32, Crab Lungs said:

It utterly mental. People blaming the management for not playing him - they’ve likely never seen him play. The way anger at situation manifests with our fans is strange. We’ve got some proper whoppers.

Why not give him a try?  We've given games to academy players brought in from other teams like Larios and Small with nothing really to show for it.  Even Edozie who has looked ok on the ball hasn't contributed a single goal or assist to date.

[once_bitterne]

On 24/01/2023 at 17:17, Give it to Ron said:

So he has 18 months left apparently so can’t see us rushing him out of the door just yet

We'll have 3 or 4 new managers in that time so maybe he'll get on with one of them and sign?

[derry]

It could be along the lines of Liverpool allegedly offering Jude Bellingham's father a job at Liverpool if Jude sign for them.

[Badger]

On 24/01/2023 at 13:55, maysie said:

Stupid fucking name

Might be a decent lad, and he may have a great career ahead of him. But he's unlikely to be invited to tea with Katie Hopkins' kids with his name. 

[egg]

4 hours ago, Toadhall Saint said:

You assume……..

I assume it’s to do with money - no more no less.

Could be a factor, and our predicament may well link to the terms he's being offered, ie a "relegation clause". No risk of one of those coming into play at Chelsea. Either way, saints at the bottom of the league, or Chelsea, he ain't going to pick us. 

[Chez]

On 26/01/2023 at 14:18, Toadhall Saint said:

You assume……..

I assume it’s to do with money - no more no less.

 Too much to turn down. Saints don't want to sell, but this is only going to end one way.

[John Boy Saint]

As an aside - reading all this just made me wonder what happened the young hot prospect at Stoke, who’s parents were got to by Liverpool (pretty sure they got done for it) It was pretty messy. Liverpool had got the lad into a private school and other stuff which they would be funding. Stoke cried foul on Liverpool to the authorities, Stoke had the whip hand as they had the lads registration papers and were in no hurry or obliged to give them up. Stoke stood to get pretty much bugger all because of how old the lad was The kids parents were bleating because all of a sudden Liverpool stepped away to the point of denying there being no agreement with Mum, Dad, and the lad, so they were picking up the bill for the school that they couldn’t afford. 
It was a vicious circle - and almost like Stoke were prepared to let this lad burn just to make a point to other families  
 

 

[Saint Matty 76]

Gone to Chelsea, for first team football I’m sure.

[ecurnew02]

This obviously was never about play time and more about money. He’ll be going on loan to Cardiff City in 4 years at Chelsea 

[kristian]