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Saints 0-1 Aston Villa


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Just now, Chez said:

Yes. It's zonal marking.

I'm glad we have moved away from that crazy offside trap bollocks under Ralph, but I am starting to wonder if hold a high line at set pieces offers any advantages to the defensive side. 

If forwards and defenders are all moving towards the goal, it feels like its always going to be difficult for defenders to stick with opponents and make a suitable clearing header. If defenders were already on thee six yard box,  they could be facing the ball coming in and then attack it. I guess in practice though, sitting deep makes it even easier for attackers to score with the right delivery.

Perhaps it's just that Lyanco, DCC and Salisu aren't the ball winners we like to think they are.

If nothing else a defender could get in the way of an attacker and make it difficult for them.

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1 hour ago, Saint Garrett said:

We used to hold a way higher line under Ralph. We’re so deep on free kicks under Jones. 

it was a shit show under Ralph, with the instruction just to stand still and time after time the offside track was broken and only a massive slice of luck and good fortune seemed to precent us conceding almost every week. Admittedly, we did catch teams offside a lot too, but it was far from perfect and as I say, it was more about forwards not believing their luck and missing half the time. I don;' want to go back to that again.

Obviously it was a pivotal moment yesterday in a relatively tight game, but our failure to keep the ball, create chances and take the genuine one we got we just as important.

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4 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

If nothing else a defender could get in the way of an attacker and make it difficult for them.

absolutely. Defenders just run back in their lanes. If the ball isn't at headable height then the forwards in between those lanes (players) just get free headers. 9 times our of ten you are OK, but we seem to be on the end of the 1/10 a fair bit. We are never going to prevent every goal, but there has been too many even with Jones says we are defending better. Not set pieces we aren't.  

The other week we had Ely `marking' 6'3" Onana and CBs zonal. That didn't work either. 

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The penalty decision in the Man City v Wolves game further highlights the inconsistency.

Grealish runs past the defender who slides in and then kicks his back leg with a trailing foot. Ref gives goal kick. VAR has a look and says no clear and obvious error so play on.

The other way around yesterday, but once ref has given the goal it's not a clear and obvious error so the decision should stand.

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25 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

We estimated yesterday that we need a point a game plus the odd win on top of that.

38 points is fine in pretty much enough  any season these days - amy club tracking a point a game is basically on track for safety. Forest for example now nicely placed. They're not safe by any means yet but bang on track.

We are miles off - even if we win our next two league games in a row we still won't be back to a point a game.

 

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Just seen the goals. If that "push" had been in the other area would it have resulted in a penalty? No of course it wouldn't! Utterly disgraceful decision though not really sure why anyone's complaining about Villa's goal being offside? Looked perfectly fine to me.

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11 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

Just seen the goals. If that "push" had been in the other area would it have resulted in a penalty? No of course it wouldn't! Utterly disgraceful decision though not really sure why anyone's complaining about Villa's goal being offside? Looked perfectly fine to me.

They reckon that it was not the push but that Mo clipped his heel !

Basically the goal was given, the Villa players got in the ref’s face then VAR intervened! It wasn’t a trip, a stamp nor a kick. In super slo-mo it could be argued that his toe touched the defender’s heel ! How they can consider that as a “clear and obvious mistake” I have no idea but when you look at the Rashford incident at OT and the Salah one at Anfield recently you have conclude that it’s easier for ‘big clubs’ to get decisions than us !

Im getting more and more disillusioned by VAR by the day 😩

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1 hour ago, eurosaint said:

They reckon that it was not the push but that Mo clipped his heel !

Basically the goal was given, the Villa players got in the ref’s face then VAR intervened! It wasn’t a trip, a stamp nor a kick. In super slo-mo it could be argued that his toe touched the defender’s heel ! How they can consider that as a “clear and obvious mistake” I have no idea but when you look at the Rashford incident at OT and the Salah one at Anfield recently you have conclude that it’s easier for ‘big clubs’ to get decisions than us !

Im getting more and more disillusioned by VAR by the day 😩

Let’s put it this way; if a defender had done that to one of our attackers, would we have got a penalty?

Slight contacts such as that yesterday happen all the time in the penalty area, but are rarely penalised. 
 

Ramsey flinging himself to the floor influenced the referee too. He tried to win a penalty in the first half when he dived. He’s a cheat.

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9 hours ago, Miltonaggro said:

It’s their money, well Dragan Solak’s money, but likely won’t count for very much in the Championship having been frittered so incompetently. Do you think that Solak will put in a similar amount simply to get SFC back to the position we were in when he bought us? 

He might. These players might be good in the Championship..When did we last have a great transfer window? I'd argue Lavia, Edozie, Calleta-Car, Bella-Kotchap are improvements on what we had. Can't remember four good signings in a window....in my 50 years of watching them. Possibly the start of the Koeman era with Pelle, Mane & Tadic was the last time we ad more than a single successful transfer.

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Watching The Arse v Manure. I'm afraid we delude ourselves if we think we can ever do anything but make the numbers up in the Prem 

The Championship might well be more enjoyable and from my personal point of view they might be on TV more often..

I've supported the Saints with my rattle and home knitted scarf  from Div 3 South and I shall to my grave, but unfortunately money has taken over now, ad I can't see a billionaire rescuing us.

 

Edited by cambsaint
typo
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I find it amazing that anyone watched that game and thought we went toe to toe with Villa. The gulf in class during the first half in particular was vast - they cut through our midfield like they were Man City, and had long spells maintaining pressure on the edge of our box while we struggled to connect three consecutive passes. We had a two minute spell of pressure in the second half that produced Armstrong's shot and the disallowed goal while they failed to turn their superior possession into clear chances. But they were wasteful while we were feeding on absolute scraps - let's not kid ourselves that those are the same. 

As an attacking side we're just so rigid. Players hold their positions and wait for the ball rather than looking to find space. It reminds me of that saying from the Poch era, that the players play from a position rather than in a position. Be disciplined by all means and keep one eye on what your movement will mean if we lose the ball and you have to defend. But at least try and find space that isn't within a boot-length of your opponent.

For three seasons and counting our only attacking idea has been playing the ball to a fullback in a postage-stamp of space on the touchline. It's getting pretty old.

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1 hour ago, jabei said:

He might. These players might be good in the Championship..When did we last have a great transfer window? I'd argue Lavia, Edozie, Calleta-Car, Bella-Kotchap are improvements on what we had. Can't remember four good signings in a window....in my 50 years of watching them. Possibly the start of the Koeman era with Pelle, Mane & Tadic was the last time we ad more than a single successful transfer.

This.

It was a good window in many ways. We improved in a number of positions. How many of the players who left are doing a job at premier League or equivalent standard?

But we're dragged down by some shitty transfer window failings too: and in critical positions. That's what's killing us.

Is that on Semmens and his stupid negotiations, or SR trying to be too clever? No idea.

Sadly, I think we're down because of it. I've pretty much accepted it. Will be 'interesting' to see what SR do with us in the Championship.

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17 hours ago, eurosaint said:

They reckon that it was not the push but that Mo clipped his heel !

Basically the goal was given, the Villa players got in the ref’s face then VAR intervened! It wasn’t a trip, a stamp nor a kick. In super slo-mo it could be argued that his toe touched the defender’s heel ! How they can consider that as a “clear and obvious mistake” I have no idea but when you look at the Rashford incident at OT and the Salah one at Anfield recently you have conclude that it’s easier for ‘big clubs’ to get decisions than us !

Im getting more and more disillusioned by VAR by the day 😩

…but Villa are not a big club so why would the ref be biased towards them? 

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Lyanco plays as if he has a massive mistake in him, but in reality he manages to give away vital goals through minor errors. 

You don't like to pick on individuals when the team is poor but he's been at the crime scene of nearly every goal in the Jones era.

Less fist-pumping, more disciplined defending required.

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I think one of the major problems is a lack of consistency between referees and VAR and the interpretation of a clear and obvious error. Against Everton Coleman cleaned out Adams with a shoulder charge in the middle of his back, nothing was given as it was in the penalty area, outside it was a foul and possibly a yellow card. Why??? At free kicks/corners defenders are holding, in some cases wrestling, hardly ever penalised. In that case the ball is dead but if referees let the kick be taken and then gave a penalty it would soon stop that.

Years ago there was no holding, anybody that did stood a pretty good chance of getting an elbow in the chest or face. After I had poleaxed a player the referee just said " He had that coming" and just carried on.  A hand on another player or shirt tug should be penalised with a booking that would probably stop it especially if a penalty was given.

Even better in GAA football and hurling the referees have a black card for these so called professional fouls. The player is sent off immediately but a substitue replacement is allowed. 

Jones is talking about being more agressive. Possibly but we should be smarter. When Arsenal won the double Adams etc used to step up as the kick was taken, the opponents were offside every time. Lyanco was the first to drop back and he played Watkins onside, even if we'd held the line he was offside.

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We really need to get in the refs face more - Villa harangued him to get the goal over turned one of them taking a yellow in the process. 
On one of our free kicks into the box a Villa defender had so much of Lyancos shirt in his hand that the number 4 was on his chest - not a peep out of anyone in our team 

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2 hours ago, rallyboy said:

Lyanco plays as if he has a massive mistake in him, but in reality he manages to give away vital goals through minor errors. 

You don't like to pick on individuals when the team is poor but he's been at the crime scene of nearly every goal in the Jones era.

Less fist-pumping, more disciplined defending required.

He’s a liability, why on earth is he going through Tyrone Mings early on and getting booked? 

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23 hours ago, Appy said:

We got lucky in the first half, Bazunu fouls Ramsey, but it gets given as a corner. 

No we didn’t, it was a clean tackle, he pushed the ball away from the penalty area, if it had been a foul the ball would have continue off the end of the pitch for a goal kick. Fans simply want a scape goat, and Bazunu is it at the moment.

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9 minutes ago, polegategavin said:

No we didn’t, it was a clean tackle, he pushed the ball away from the penalty area, if it had been a foul the ball would have continue off the end of the pitch for a goal kick. Fans simply want a scape goat, and Bazunu is it at the moment.

Dermot Gallagher on Ref Watch described it as a good save and was first to the ball.

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23 hours ago, Chez said:

Yes. It's zonal marking.

I'm glad we have moved away from that crazy offside trap bollocks under Ralph, but I am starting to wonder if hold a high line at set pieces offers any advantages to the defensive side. 

If forwards and defenders are all moving towards the goal, it feels like its always going to be difficult for defenders to stick with opponents and make a suitable clearing header. If defenders were already on thee six yard box,  they could be facing the ball coming in and then attack it. I guess in practice though, sitting deep makes it even easier for attackers to score with the right delivery.

Perhaps it's just that Lyanco, DCC and Salisu aren't the ball winners we like to think they are.

I thought the high line was a good way to defend freekicks, many times the opponents scored but it was chalked off for offside. What the opponents started doing was have a player burst through after starting a couple of yards out. Sadly we have KWP doing the blocking of that player and he was too waek to stop this player who then went on and scored. In principle done well and it worked well. Like the Che sitting down after 60 mins so we could get energy drinks stopped and we went into freefall from there as well

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48 minutes ago, OldNick said:

I thought the high line was a good way to defend freekicks, many times the opponents scored but it was chalked off for offside. What the opponents started doing was have a player burst through after starting a couple of yards out. Sadly we have KWP doing the blocking of that player and he was too waek to stop this player who then went on and scored. In principle done well and it worked well. Like the Che sitting down after 60 mins so we could get energy drinks stopped and we went into freefall from there as well

What annoys me is that we never seem to score any similar headed goals.

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22 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Let’s put it this way; if a defender had done that to one of our attackers, would we have got a penalty?

Slight contacts such as that yesterday happen all the time in the penalty area, but are rarely penalised. 
 

Ramsey flinging himself to the floor influenced the referee too. He tried to win a penalty in the first half when he dived. He’s a cheat.

Agree Whitey, If pushing and bodily contact were penalised likewise, we'd see a penalty given every time a corner is taken....

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