S-Clarke Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 Just now, Toussaint said: Thanks, And NJ was marched out or left afterwards ? God knows, speculation as well. Apparently Selles took the light training this PM, but that may have always been the plan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 Did the players bring their dinners? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Convict Colony Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said: That's a lot of speculation. It's what I do, my XS (expected speculation) is amongst the best in Europe. 1 28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangkoksaint Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 38 minutes ago, S-Clarke said: I keep doing this, but then we lose the next winnable game, so I have a look at the fixtures again....and then we lose the next winnable game etc. The reality is that the games are running out, it's starting to shape up for me like Bournemouth and ourselves will be scrapping for 19th/20th, then you'll have Everton, Forest, Leeds, Wolves flapping around 18th. I think we're done. We don't need 'tiny improvements', we need to literally switch our form of over a year on it's head in the space of a few weeks. Without divine intervention (maybe that's why Jones is here?) I just don't see how it happens. Absolutely this. We need to start preparing for an assault on the Championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally_uk Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 3 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said: Did the players bring their dinners? Reference to Sitton? Lol 😆 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRM Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 4 minutes ago, Viking Saint said: If SR bite the bullet, who's available out there right now who you think could/would be prepared to step in....? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 3 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said: Did the players bring their dinners? They paired up, if they liked. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golac's Cunning Stunts Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 2 minutes ago, Viking Saint said: If SR bite the bullet, who's available out there right now who you think could/would be prepared to step in....? I honestly think we'd do better without a manager than with Jones. Even I could do better - e.g. You're a left back so you play at left back, you're a right back so you can play at right back. Right lads if you give it your all but we still lose, I have got your back so don't worry. How about that? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 5 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said: Fighting in the workplace could get him sacked for gross misconduct and save paying him off. Do we even know he was involved? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewy Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 45 minutes ago, Saint Garrett said: Training ground scrap this morning, was a board meeting today, Selles took a light training session this afternoon and another meeting scheduled for tomorrow. I can’t believe he’s lasted today tbh. Thanks for the info - just beyond incredible. Although … not all the players were still training this afternoon; one was at golf by 1 o’clock 😉 Not doubting your facts for one second, just interesting to see that not all the coaching team and not all the players are there at the same time As I say, beyond incredible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 1 minute ago, hypochondriac said: Do we even know he was involved? Nope. But we've finally got some hope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 1 minute ago, hypochondriac said: Do we even know he was involved? It's all in how you write up the events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmes_and_Watson Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 I caught Alex Crook on talksport while boiling the kettle earlier. He was basically saying it was time for a new person to come in. They discussed a number of the things mentioned here. Broadly the taking of reponsibility, saying he wasn't going to blame the players, before blaming them; the inexperienced approach at this level and that a record at Luton isn't going to make a difference to what's going on here, right now. He did mention that he knew the players and some of the board were unhappy. But he could well have been reading that from here too. Still, it's another news outlet waiting for SR to make the call. As for NJ, it could have been so much easier for him, if he could have closed his mouth, after the first sentence. Lavia being subbed? - He was on a booking, and he's too important a player for us to lose through suspension. STOP - Do not criticise his performance. Approach - He was brought in off the back of specific values and with specific goals. He has not seen those values instilled in the team, he has not hit his goals, and that both are his fault. He's not happy with the approach he took since coming in and will work tirelessly to correct it. STOP - Do not say the players were all rubbish before him, that it's their fault that they can't follow instructions and that he's sick of pandering to them and/ or the coaches and/ or Rasmus. Overwhelmed in the Premier League - By all means trot out his achievements, and it being a super career opportunity. By all means say that these were the foundations of what he'd like to see here. Return to previous answer about the work he'd like to put in to achieve that. STOP - Do not blame shadowy parties interfering with your tactics/ approach. Do not blame the players for trying to pull wool over your eyes/ play to their strengths. Team Selection - almost indefensible, but default interview answers are available. New signings not trained with us much yet, but wanted them to play a part. Bree is a known quantity from Luton days, so that's not the same obstacle. Bland pick the players he felt were best suited to start would be baffling, but at least supportive of those players. STOP - Do not chuck them under the team coach when the various team changes don't work out. None of the above deflects from the stark reality of the results and the difficulty of the task. But at least it wouldn't alienate every one of his colleagues. As for Rasmus, I wonder if his emergency go to manager would actually more of the same. Another out of the left field hire. Because it will be hard to give up the stat based principles, the preferred team formations and the ego to get in someone who has the experience, skill and drive to do it without that input. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkshire Saint Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 Perhaps NJ is taking this on full throttle. Calling the players out, showing all his cards etc. Didnt he do something similar before and set fire to a table tennis table or something? If he does go toe to toe with the players as he alluded to yesterday in regards drawing a line and the club continue to support him then it is a high risk strategy which won't end with us in the Premier league next season for sure. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Bates Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, hypochondriac said: Do we even know he was involved? Jones yes, SaintGarrett confirmed with his "Yup" reply. Edited 5 February, 2023 by Master Bates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegalEagle Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 Just now, Golac's Cunning Stunts said: I honestly think we'd do better without a manager than with Jones. Even I could do better - e.g. You're a left back so you play at left back, you're a right back so you can play at right back. Right lads if you give it your all but we still lose, I have got your back so don't worry. How about that? What about Caballero until the end of the season? He is experienced and seems popular amongst the players. I’m not sure who else is out there who would either want to come here or could do much better. I don’t believe Bielsa would want to come and do we really want Fat Sam or Hodgson? They ballsed this up by not giving the job to Dyche. I would take a spin on Caballero if he wanted it until the end of the season. We have the players we just need to unite them. Maybe a crazy idea but hey, who knows what might happen. Rather have Caballero rather than Lampard or Gerrard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Bates Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 6 minutes ago, JRM said: And Big Sam as #2 🤣 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 3 minutes ago, ally_uk said: Reference to Sitton? Lol 😆 I can see him going full Sitton. “You, you little cunt, and you, you big cunt” “ I run this club until the clowns upstairs tell me otherwise” “if I’m going to get abuse from the cockroaches behind me, I’ll do it playing my way”, “as for you, you’ve got 2 weeks notice”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Convict Colony Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmes_and_Watson Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 1 minute ago, Lord Duckhunter said: “as for you, you’ve got 2 weeks notice”. I hope he points. That could be nearly anyone. 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint86 Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 16 minutes ago, hypochondriac said: Nobody knows. Saint Garrett's source has said there was a training ground bust up this morning. That's all the info. Orsic's social media post is pretty interesting as well. Clearly something had gone on. Imagine treating a world Cup semi final goalscorer like he had been. Just unreal. Must be one of the ones he doesn't want. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint86 Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 (edited) Was really hoping I'd log on to find him gone. It's the hope that gets you. SR need to just bite the bullet and throw some money at a poch/bielsa level candidate, and just accept relegation and rebuilding. Anything above that is a mercy they don't deserve. Every day they delay now is a day closer to a future abyss. Edited 5 February, 2023 by Saint86 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toussaint Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 2 minutes ago, Saint86 said: Orsic's social media post is pretty interesting as well. Clearly something had gone on. Imagine treating a world Cup semi final goalscorer like he had been. Just unreal. Must be one of the ones he doesn't want. What was the gist of his post? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 19 minutes ago, hypochondriac said: Nobody knows. Saint Garrett's source has said there was a training ground bust up this morning. That's all the info. I think someone else alluded to it this morn also 👀 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 Just now, Crab Lungs said: I think someone else alluded to it this morn also 👀 There was something on twitter but I haven't seen anyone else mentioning it. If you want to pm me if there is someone else who knows that would be appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodsaint1 Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 3 minutes ago, Saint86 said: Orsic's social media post is pretty interesting as well. Clearly something had gone on. Imagine treating a world Cup semi final goalscorer like he had been. Just unreal. Must be one of the ones he doesn't want. Tbf he has been absolutely dreadful in his two appearances. Also didnt pull up any trees for the B team on Friday 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint86 Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Toussaint said: What was the gist of his post? A further nod to something having happened behind the scenes I would say... Edited 5 February, 2023 by Saint86 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodsaint1 Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 2 minutes ago, Toussaint said: What was the gist of his post? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 1 minute ago, hypochondriac said: There was something on twitter but I haven't seen anyone else mentioning it. If you want to pm me if there is someone else who knows that would be appreciated! Damn, I'll have to find it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SambaMaverick Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 My worry would be some of the players really liking him, and others being dead set against him. That big a fracture in the dressing room is terminal and no new manager coming in can fix that. Obviously that isn't a reason to keep him, but we really are in a shit situation - all entirely SR's doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint86 Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said: I caught Alex Crook on talksport while boiling the kettle earlier. He was basically saying it was time for a new person to come in. They discussed a number of the things mentioned here. Broadly the taking of reponsibility, saying he wasn't going to blame the players, before blaming them; the inexperienced approach at this level and that a record at Luton isn't going to make a difference to what's going on here, right now. He did mention that he knew the players and some of the board were unhappy. But he could well have been reading that from here too. Still, it's another news outlet waiting for SR to make the call. As for NJ, it could have been so much easier for him, if he could have closed his mouth, after the first sentence. Lavia being subbed? - He was on a booking, and he's too important a player for us to lose through suspension. STOP - Do not criticise his performance. Approach - He was brought in off the back of specific values and with specific goals. He has not seen those values instilled in the team, he has not hit his goals, and that both are his fault. He's not happy with the approach he took since coming in and will work tirelessly to correct it. STOP - Do not say the players were all rubbish before him, that it's their fault that they can't follow instructions and that he's sick of pandering to them and/ or the coaches and/ or Rasmus. Overwhelmed in the Premier League - By all means trot out his achievements, and it being a super career opportunity. By all means say that these were the foundations of what he'd like to see here. Return to previous answer about the work he'd like to put in to achieve that. STOP - Do not blame shadowy parties interfering with your tactics/ approach. Do not blame the players for trying to pull wool over your eyes/ play to their strengths. Team Selection - almost indefensible, but default interview answers are available. New signings not trained with us much yet, but wanted them to play a part. Bree is a known quantity from Luton days, so that's not the same obstacle. Bland pick the players he felt were best suited to start would be baffling, but at least supportive of those players. STOP - Do not chuck them under the team coach when the various team changes don't work out. None of the above deflects from the stark reality of the results and the difficulty of the task. But at least it wouldn't alienate every one of his colleagues. As for Rasmus, I wonder if his emergency go to manager would actually more of the same. Another out of the left field hire. Because it will be hard to give up the stat based principles, the preferred team formations and the ego to get in someone who has the experience, skill and drive to do it without that input. Agreed. He's inexperienced and overwhelmed at this level. He could have knuckled down, not worn his titanic sinking chip on his shoulder, and the fans would have had more patience. But he hasn't done that, he's been combative and emotional, highly unprofessional in his comments, and is clearly overwhelmed. Time to go. On the go to manager front. Bielsa prefers 1 year contracts - ideal if Rasmus doesn't want to commit. And he was interested in Everton and turned them down - so he is available. Issue might be that he isn't a yes man. He dies develop young players and play a high press though. Edited 5 February, 2023 by Saint86 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behind Enemy Lines Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 18 minutes ago, Golac's Cunning Stunts said: I honestly think we'd do better without a manager than with Jones. Even I could do better - e.g. You're a left back so you play at left back, you're a right back so you can play at right back. Right lads if you give it your all but we still lose, I have got your back so don't worry. How about that? Sounds a good plan, but…. Gloac’s Cunning Stunts, Red and White Army We hate Pompey Clap clap clap clap, doesn’t feel right. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 1 minute ago, SambaMaverick said: My worry would be some of the players really liking him, and others being dead set against him. That big a fracture in the dressing room is terminal and no new manager coming in can fix that. Obviously that isn't a reason to keep him, but we really are in a shit situation - all entirely SR's doing. Oh for sure, there is a clear dressing room split as well. You can see that from the way the team play! This is why I think this season is terminal however you dress it up, but we just need to add a bit of hope in the remaining weeks so we don't get relegated with an unhealthy level of toxicity. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusic Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 1 minute ago, SambaMaverick said: My worry would be some of the players really liking him, and others being dead set against him. That big a fracture in the dressing room is terminal and no new manager coming in can fix that. Obviously that isn't a reason to keep him, but we really are in a shit situation - all entirely SR's doing. JWP was alluding to the fact some players aren't giving 100% after the game yesterday. That said, the ones that are will probably keep doing what they are told by a manager because they are good pros. However none of them will want to be relegated and whilst a fair few know they would get a move to another PL team some will be faced with relegation and contractual pahly cuts so I'm pretty sure even those who may like him would understand there has to be a change. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 So do we think he’s getting the sack tomorrow or not? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 Jesse Marsh responded to the question of how he felt about Leeds fans chanting for him to leave - ‘It’s my responsibility and I understand their frustration and doubts and I accept it. Internally we have belief here, we do. The players are all in, they give everything they have,’ said Marsch. ‘I have to find a way to the good things which are happening into results or we find ourselves in a stressful situation.’ Honestly, that's all Jones needed to say. Why he felt the need to go all in like he did is beyond me. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint86 Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 Just now, S-Clarke said: Oh for sure, there is a clear dressing room split as well. You can see that from the way the team play! This is why I think this season is terminal however you dress it up, but we just need to add a bit of hope in the remaining weeks so we don't get relegated with an unhealthy level of toxicity. The more that comes out, the more you have to genuinley worry for the short term future. EFL FFP rules are incoming, we've made some panic buys this window (still laughing people were rating it 9/10. Fuck me), and sports Republic are not an infinite source of money. Equally SR are gutting the back room setups around the scouting and academy (in which they have little interest), and those are aspects that Ralph and Semmens had actually delivered some stability to prior to SR's arrival. Since SR have been here they have tried to change basically everything in a very short period, and none of those changes appear to have been for anything but the worst.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarvSFC Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 Rob Edwards has won 7 out of 11 matches since taking over Luton, making him one of the best manager's in Europe. Also, sacked at Watford after 3 wins in 11, so has failure on his record. Therefore, ticks all the boxes we look for. 1 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 Just now, Roger said: So do we think he’s getting the sack tomorrow or not? Yes, they're prob thrashing out the termination details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint86 Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 1 minute ago, Roger said: So do we think he’s getting the sack tomorrow or not? No sadly not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmes_and_Watson Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Convict Colony said: The board would have hired him based on the principles they wanted to adopt. Once RalphBall got found out, they were looking to tighten up defensively. To do that, they went off and crunched some numbers (on us against lots of other teams) and determined they would like 5 at the back. It's not known if that was reached with a striker and possibly another attacker coming in during the summer window. Or whether they preferred 5 at the back anyway. So NJ, who has no problem with 5 at the back, gets a tick in the interview. Beyond that. The board know he'll be fine with it, as they've scouted him extensively and know his systems fit what they want to do. Those above NJ bring in players based on selling them on later, but do try and vary the age a bit (Aribo, DCC for example). NJ has a "I make players better. I make strikers score more goals" stall out, and the board like that a lot. Ralph found out that his new back room team this season, that he didn;t seem to have a hand in selecting, had more input into what was going on. So, the board principles/ objective will be there too. I've no issue with some of that. I think SR thought RalphBall was going to work forever, and that Ralph just needed the investment to push on. I don't know how much everyone involved varied the preferred style when that striker didn't appear. It makes such a difference to everything, as we saw when Broja was on song. By the time NJ came in, with no striker, that may not have been the best option at all. Having staff there that weren;t hand picked sounds good in principle. A head coach works within the successful ethos of the club. Like the players, they too will move on to bigger things, but the club will go on without missing a beat. Except, the next head coach feels he has no backing from his own coaching staff. And if those principles don't work, it's murder to change everything around to fix it. NJ will go based on results/ having fallen out with everyone connected to the club. But there are wider issues with the decisions that brought him here. They will have to be addressed, or we're in danger of repeating this cycle all over again. Edited 5 February, 2023 by Holmes_and_Watson typos 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revolution saint Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 11 minutes ago, Saint86 said: A further nod to something having happened behind the scenes I would say... on the plus side it does suggest that Orsic has a decent command of English. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, HarvSFC said: Rob Edwards has won 7 out of 11 matches since taking over Luton, making him one of the best manager's in Europe. Also, sacked at Watford after 3 wins in 11, so has failure on his record. Therefore, ticks all the boxes we look for. I'm trying not to be disrespectful to Luton here as I think they're a cracking club, but doesn't this just show that they're a comfortable club for those sorts of managers to thrive at? They don't have the prying eyes of the media, lots of expensive internationals or the ability to spend lots of money. They just do the basics well, and that's where the likes of Rob Edwards and Jones flourish. Basics. You can't get away with just 'basics' at clubs like ourselves, Stoke, Watford etc - you need to have a lot more about you as there will be higher profile players and bigger personalities to handle. This is why stats and stats alone mean nothing - you always have to look at the bigger picture and what has made him successful there, and then figure out if he can translate that across to a club in a different level. I genuinely don't think any due diligence was done away from checking the 'best manager in Europe' spreadsheets. Edited 5 February, 2023 by S-Clarke 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 16 minutes ago, woodsaint1 said: Sticking up for his international team mate I would think… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 6 minutes ago, Roger said: So do we think he’s getting the sack tomorrow or not? If there really was a Board meeting today and then one scheduled again tomorrow, and there is no reason not to believe Saint Garrett, then it’s looking likely. Something is happening that’s for sure. Whether we like the outcome is open to conjecture. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunit Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 Has this story of a training ground bust up and the following board meetings come from a reliable source or is this just a rumour from fans who want to create a story? Forgive me if its come from a reputable ITK source. Just not sure whether to trust it or not 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkshire Saint Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, tunit said: Has this story of a training ground bust up and the following board meetings come from a reliable source or is this just a rumour from fans who want to create a story? Forgive me if its come from a reputable ITK source. Just not sure whether to trust it or not Saint Garrett has always been v reliable in my opinion. No one gets everything right but you have got to accept this and take or leave what is shared accordingly. (Some v reliable ITK, like view from the top and King Billy or what ever his name was have been hounded out for not being perfect which is disappointing and unfair .. steer clear of vman though 😅) Edited 5 February, 2023 by Yorkshire Saint 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint IQ Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 Give it to Pochy till end of season. I'm sure he doesn't want to see us go down... 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 7 minutes ago, Saint Garrett said: Sticking up for his international team mate I would think… Like us, not happy DCC is playing for the B team then. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintscottofthenortham Posted 5 February, 2023 Share Posted 5 February, 2023 1 hour ago, Dark Munster said: 18 months tracking a fraud who is the worst PL manager in history. 18 f*cking months! You couldn't make it up. Rasmussen and Semmens. If this is true then he is the guy they alluded to when they spoke about involving Ralph and how they all knew who would likely succeed him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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