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Nathan Jones


AlexLaw76
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1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said:

 

To be fair, that "average position of opponent" thing is ridiculous - if you played a whole season, the average position of your opposition would be 10.5 :lol:

The one immediately above it is the crucial one. For all that we've got results in the cups, in the league we've simply not created enough chances in open play.

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One thing that occurs to me, and I can't bothered to research this, but NJ is always talking about his successful time at Luton where he achieved things without spending money. Is he unable to handle a number of big money buys coming in and being integrated into the squad? A new experience for him?

Edited by miserableoldgit
Pedantry...
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8 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

Actually horrendous if it's been going on that long. Rasmus certainly has had a very steep learning curve to football club ownership. But he needs to sort this out. We aren't down yet but it's getting less and less likely we survive. He either acts now to get a quality manager in who somehow keeps us up, or he goes out and gets someone to drive us forward next season on the championship who can minimise the hit that is coming with a rejigged business model - I personally would love to see bielsa or poch back (I know it's unlikely). But if we can go and spend nearly £20m on a striker that can only play hoof ball (for a fanbase that wants high tempo attacking pressing football with youngsters), then we can damn well go out and spend it on the right kind of manager. 

I apreciate the money SR have put in, and I get that they need to learn and will make some mistakes, but they've certainly gone into this thinking they were a heck of a lot cleverer than they thought they were and they need to get their next decisions right or we'll be back to, "save our saints" buckets in another 5 years... 

I would happily see them pay any sort of money to get Poch in, if at all feasible. But even if we could offer the money, can we align with his ambitions and give him the a sustained amount of transfer money he would want to ‘challenge’. 

Id guess not ☹️

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I bet you he was allowed to choose one of the 3 players brought in.

The others were chosen by our fantastic recruitment team the same ones who wasted loads of money in the summer on shit then jumped ship when a better offer come along. 

 

I want him gone but its plain to see any manager that comes here will be told who they are signing and they way to play. 

 

He was just the fool that accepted it and that's why we won't attract any half decent manager. 

Edited by Saintsfan79
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1 minute ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Ralph was a yes man when it came to signings, they all are pretty much nowadays. He didn’t take a hard line, he’d have gone in the summer if he did.

As I’ve said, it’s what they’d do with players they don’t rate that was the difference, not who they’d sign. To make it simple. If Big Paul is shite, Ralph won’t play him, Jones will. 

Yeah I get what you mean about signings. All I meant is Ralph tried to put a team on the pitch that could win rather than always playing players just because SR told him to. The recruitment hasn't been great under SR. A couple of gems sure, but that's to be expected whne you spend as much as we have, and there had been a lot of fluff. And it's all been so scatter gun. Very concerned about Paul the more I think about it - he isn't fast, has a poor touch, lacked the stamina to do more than 60min in the pro league, and is only suited to "getting it in the mixer" and hoof ball style play. Saints fans will never trully be happy with that style of football ultimatley and it will limit us for managerial appointments / or mean we've got a dead weight marque signing with limited sell on potential. 

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5 minutes ago, Saintsfan79 said:

He is clearly struggling and some of the things he speaks about doesn't make a lot of sense. 

But the sad witch hunt on him is embarrassing, Was exactly the same with Ralph until we all got our way and it will be the same with the next manager if he doesn't win his 1st three games in charge.  

 

It's probably the owners, players, fans that are the the poison running through this club not the scapegoats chosen.

Because of course, if we were all just a little nicer and got behind the lovely Mr. Jones our club would currently be rainbows and unicorns and everything going swimmingly with no problems in the world. All we need is a little positivity, join hands in harmony and then the world is our oyster. 
 

Who the fuck are you kidding, witch hunt? No, the guy is incompetent and a total wanker. Do you not love your club? Why would you sit back and watch it burn without stating it’s on fire?

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Just now, hypochondriac said:

Why is that a strength? We don't want someone who plays a shite player just because they've been told to. I'm assuming this is also relevant with regards to Bednarek coming back. 

Did I say it was a strength? 
 

It’s the way it is, or the way I was told it was. I don’t see why a Jones family member would make it up, as it doesn’t reflect particularly well on him. Yes Janny B is a good example of a player frozen out by Ralph but I imagine Jones rates him as he’s chucked him straight back in.
 

It’s about players Jones doesn’t rate. The example I was given was Adam Armstrong, instead of sending him out on loan or freezing him out, he is willing to work with him and make him a “better” player. Hence protecting SR’s “asset”. 

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2 hours ago, Saintsfan79 said:

He is clearly struggling and some of the things he speaks about doesn't make a lot of sense. 

But the sad witch hunt on him is embarrassing, Was exactly the same with Ralph until we all got our way and it will be the same with the next manager if he doesn't win his 1st three games in charge.  

 

It's probably the owners, players, fans that are the the poison running through this club not the scapegoats chosen.

Hiya. What's Lord D like to work with? ;)

Edited by trousers
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1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said:

 

Quite telling stats, he's been telling us for weeks that we've been better defensively and harder to beat.

In the last 7 league games Ralph had in charge -

◉ 7 games

◉ 4 losses

◉ 13 goals conceded

◉ 5 goals scored [3 open play]

Granted, that's not great at all and is a shocking set of stats....but, he's made us worse from a position we couldn't really get much worse from. And we're not better defensively.

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1 minute ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Did I say it was a strength? 
 

It’s the way it is, or the way I was told it was. I don’t see why a Jones family member would make it up, as it doesn’t reflect particularly well on him. Yes Janny B is a good example of a player frozen out by Ralph but I imagine Jones rates him as he’s chucked him straight back in.
 

It’s about players Jones doesn’t rate. The example I was given was Adam Armstrong, instead of sending him out on loan or freezing him out, he is willing to work with him and make him a “better” player. Hence protecting SR’s “asset”. 

OK that makes sense. Thanks for the info. 

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3 minutes ago, Saintsfan79 said:

I bet you he was allowed to choose one of the 3 players brought in.

The others were chosen by our fantastic recruitment team the same ones who waisted loads of money in the summer on shit then jumped ship when a better offer come along. 

 

I want him gone but its plain to see any manager that comes here will be told who they are signing and they way to play. 

 

He was just the fool that accepted it and that's why we won't attract any half decent manager. 

Managers say what type of player they need/want. Oh and BTW there wasn’t a lot of shit brought in in the summer  - there were very good young players brought in. 

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1 minute ago, Toadhall Saint said:

Managers say what type of player they need/want. Oh and BTW there wasn’t a lot of shit brought in in the summer  - there were very good young players brought in. 

Really?? Name one.

We're bottom of the league and they have done nothing.

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1 minute ago, S-Clarke said:

Quite telling stats, he's been telling us for weeks that we've been better defensively and harder to beat.

In the last 7 league games Ralph had in charge -

◉ 7 games

◉ 4 losses

◉ 13 goals conceded

◉ 5 goals scored [3 open play]

Granted, that's not great at all and is a shocking set of stats....but, he's made us worse from a position we couldn't really get much worse from. And we're not better defensively.

Ralph also had kwp, ABK, and lavia out for those games, and had to play man City, arsenal, and Newcastle in his last 7. Chelsea as well possibly? He got sacked before he got to play the newly promoted sides like Fulham and forest.

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1 minute ago, Toadhall Saint said:

Managers say what type of player they need/want. Oh and BTW there wasn’t a lot of shit brought in in the summer  - there were very good young players brought in. 

Money was wasted on several players nowhere near ready for the first team (lavia excluded), when it should have been spent on 2-3 quality and ready for first team action players.

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1 minute ago, trousers said:

This is the biggest mystery of all to me. One that would surely have baffled Arthur C Clark too. How does a team go from being that decent (albeit in patches) to utter tripe in the space of a few months, and beyond? If the players were simply "championship standard" then they wouldn't have been able to go on that kind of run at all, in patches or not. 

It's got to come down to a combination of confidence and attitude, which is ultimately down to the manager to instill. 

We'll never know what's said behind closed doors, but the two Ronald Koeman seasons were very much the exception in that, despite being safe in the division, we kept on going right to the end of the season. Since I've been going to games in 1991, in seasons where we weren't expected to be at the upper end of the division (i.e. in the second or third tiers), there was always a noticeable drop-off in performances and results once we were "effectively" (not necessarily mathematically) safe from any relegation danger, and we'd coast through the remaining games. When in previous years there's been those nagging dangers and you reach safety at a much earlier point in the season, as we did last season, I guess there is a natural relief that relaxes you a bit too much.

And perhaps that's why - at the moment - we don't have the absolute elite-level players that we have had in the past. While we know many of them have the ability, they don't quite have that elite-level mindset and mentality that would make them a candidate to play for a title-challenging team where you need to be the absolute best 100% of the time. And that's where management comes in. You can coach technique, patterns of play and (sorry, Nathan...) systems, but there are relatively few managers in the modern game who can instil that elite level of hunger in already-excellent players. For the most part, they either have it already or they never will.

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4 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Did I say it was a strength? 
 

It’s the way it is, or the way I was told it was. I don’t see why a Jones family member would make it up, as it doesn’t reflect particularly well on him. Yes Janny B is a good example of a player frozen out by Ralph but I imagine Jones rates him as he’s chucked him straight back in.
 

It’s about players Jones doesn’t rate. The example I was given was Adam Armstrong, instead of sending him out on loan or freezing him out, he is willing to work with him and make him a “better” player. Hence protecting SR’s “asset”. 

It's great that he's willing to work with players but it seems like our players are getting worse rather than better. And, putting them in the first team seems the wrong way of going about it. In Armstrong's case - a loan might have been just what he needed to rebuild his confidence. Instead he's getting bits of games here and there, not getting into a rhythm and exactly where he was before. That's not preserving his value.

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7 minutes ago, Saintsfan79 said:

I bet you he was allowed to choose one of the 3 players brought in.

The others were chosen by our fantastic recruitment team the same ones who wasted loads of money in the summer on shit then jumped ship when a better offer come along. 

 

I want him gone but its plain to see any manager that comes here will be told who they are signing and they way to play. 

 

He was just the fool that accepted it and that's why we won't attract any half decent manager. 

Weren't there 5?

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8 minutes ago, Saintsfan79 said:

Really?? Name one.

We're bottom of the league and they have done nothing.

ABK and Lavia are both very good players and far better than relegation level for starters. DCC is a good CB as well. Mara is still young but had potential, baz isn't as bad as this place makes out but he is still probably one of the lower end prem keepers (not his fault really - he's young), and he will develop a lot from here. Edozie again is a good winger, but his end product holds him back. 

Reality is SR ignored CDM (weakened it with lavia's injury) and didn't assess the striker situation. We spent an awful lot of money and sacked a  mananger who would certainly have kept us up with all the transfer kitty we had this season - if only they had addressed striker and cdm. Blame lies with SR for that, and ultimatley for appointing Jones - on what seems a safe assumption that it isn't going to work out.... 

Really, if they want to play and develop kids and keep the fans on board, a mananger in the mould of bielsa / poch is the way to go... 

Edited by Saint86
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Just now, coalman said:

It's great that he's willing to work with players but it seems like our players are getting worse rather than better. And, putting them in the first team seems the wrong way of going about it. In Armstrong's case - a loan might have been just what he needed to rebuild his confidence. Instead he's getting bits of games here and there, not getting into a rhythm and exactly where he was before. That's not preserving his value.

I agree, but I’m just passing on what I heard. They want a manager who will make the players better, ( im not saying he is) not one that’ll bin the ones he doesn’t fancy. Personally, I’m all for freezing useless players out but I’m not running the club. If you’re running a club by spreadsheet it it probably makes sense. 

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Don't say I didn't try to tell you what he was like. 

Luton are my hometown team. I've seen a lot of them under Jones and never saw anything that impressed me. Getting them into the playoffs last season was largely the job of the excellent backroom staff, yet Jones would have you believe that it's all thanks to him. Don't underestimate the job Mick Harford does at Luton!
The lads who I go to Luton with were delighted when he left as they never wanted him back after he went to Stoke. Only last night I received a message from one of them that said "Thank you for taking Nathan. We're now playing proper football under Rob Edwards."

 

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5 minutes ago, stevegrant said:

We'll never know what's said behind closed doors, but the two Ronald Koeman seasons were very much the exception in that, despite being safe in the division, we kept on going right to the end of the season. Since I've been going to games in 1991, in seasons where we weren't expected to be at the upper end of the division (i.e. in the second or third tiers), there was always a noticeable drop-off in performances and results once we were "effectively" (not necessarily mathematically) safe from any relegation danger, and we'd coast through the remaining games. When in previous years there's been those nagging dangers and you reach safety at a much earlier point in the season, as we did last season, I guess there is a natural relief that relaxes you a bit too much.

And perhaps that's why - at the moment - we don't have the absolute elite-level players that we have had in the past. While we know many of them have the ability, they don't quite have that elite-level mindset and mentality that would make them a candidate to play for a title-challenging team where you need to be the absolute best 100% of the time. And that's where management comes in. You can coach technique, patterns of play and (sorry, Nathan...) systems, but there are relatively few managers in the modern game who can instil that elite level of hunger in already-excellent players. For the most part, they either have it already or they never will.

This. I always say there’s a reason why someone would play for Saints for a number of seasons.

Despite any talent, there also has to be an elite mentality to play for one of the big boys…  which a lot of our squad simply do not have.

Flipping form or performances on or off, or simply not being good enough to sustain a level is what sets those two types of players apart - and would explain us going from abject to sensational and back to abject again.

Sadly, we’re now just consistently abject.

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13 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

But we didn’t have good enough experienced pros around them. The keepers shit, and the jury is out on the rest of them apart from Lavia. 

This argument has been done to death on here. I don’t disagree that there was a need to bring in experienced players but to say the ones that were brought in were shit is a bit much imo 

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13 minutes ago, coalman said:

It's great that he's willing to work with players but it seems like our players are getting worse rather than better. And, putting them in the first team seems the wrong way of going about it. In Armstrong's case - a loan might have been just what he needed to rebuild his confidence. Instead he's getting bits of games here and there, not getting into a rhythm and exactly where he was before. That's not preserving his value.

When new managers have taken over from Jones (Mick Harford at Luton, Michael O'Neill at Stoke and now Rob Edwards at Luton), they've got better results from the same players. So Jones is clearly not a manager who gets the best out of players.

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1 minute ago, wooley7 said:

Disappointing to hear him call out Lavia.  Totally unnecessary. 

And wrong as well. When Lavia's playing our midfield ticks. He doesn't give the ball away. Is able to receive in tight spaces and his passing is excellent.

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4 minutes ago, wooley7 said:

Disappointing to hear him call out Lavia.  Totally unnecessary. 

He shouldn't be naming any players individually like he did, I'd even be disappointed if he named Diallo.

Good managers keep that shit behind closed doors, they do not respond back to the fans with snipes which he has done on numerous occasions. 

He's an incredibly confused and unhinged individual. On one hand he will say the fans are entitled to their views, then the next sentence he tell us we must have been watching a different game and that his call was the right one.

Edited by S-Clarke
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4 minutes ago, wooley7 said:

Disappointing to hear him call out Lavia.  Totally unnecessary. 

What sort of manager refers to fan chants in a specific and direct way? If you're a Premier league manager you don't start getting into specifics of chants it's ridiculously smalltime. It reminds me of when Ian Holloway got all angry because we chanted Premier League having a laugh at him. Tinpot. 

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4 minutes ago, coalman said:

And wrong as well. When Lavia's playing our midfield ticks. He doesn't give the ball away. Is able to receive in tight spaces and his passing is excellent.

Totally wrong! He was playing well, getting balls forward.  Jones is creating false narratives to explain/justify his actions. Not a good look for a Premier League manager. Not sure many last too long after these sort of interviews.

Edited by wooley7
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Just now, S-Clarke said:

He shouldn't be naming any players individually like he did, I'd even be disappointed if he named Diallo.

Good managers keep that shit behind closed doors, they do not respond back to the fans with snipes which he has done on numerous occasions. 

There's no upside in responding to the fans. There's no upside in talking down your players in public. It's unprofessional.

When you're as unlikeable as Jones then you really need to have results to back it up. He doesn't have results yet still feels the need to argue at every turn. It makes me so uncomfortable.

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1 minute ago, coalman said:

There's no upside in responding to the fans. There's no upside in talking down your players in public. It's unprofessional.

When you're as unlikeable as Jones then you really need to have results to back it up. He doesn't have results yet still feels the need to argue at every turn. It makes me so uncomfortable.

I don't think I've ever disliked someone as much as I dislike this guy, and I usually give people a fair chance. But I can't stand his face, his actions, the way he speaks.

Just everything about him is immensely unlikable.

Edited by S-Clarke
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1 minute ago, S-Clarke said:

I don't think I've ever disliked someone as much as I dislike this guy, and I usually give people a fair chance. But I can't stand his face, his actions, the way he speaks.

Just everything about him is immensely unlikable.

I mirror exactly this. Shit human. I know a bad egg when I see one. 

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40 minutes ago, Saintsfan79 said:

He is clearly struggling and some of the things he speaks about doesn't make a lot of sense. 

But the sad witch hunt on him is embarrassing, Was exactly the same with Ralph until we all got our way and it will be the same with the next manager if he doesn't win his 1st three games in charge.  

 

It's probably the owners, players, fans that are the the poison running through this club not the scapegoats chosen.

I actually agree to some extent, not a fan of the personal attacks, he doesn't deserve that and has had to put up with it since arriving really  , don't think it reflects well on the fans but we've had so much rubbish for years someone was always going to take the brunt of fans frustration 

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45 minutes ago, Saintsfan79 said:

He is clearly struggling and some of the things he speaks about doesn't make a lot of sense. 

But the sad witch hunt on him is embarrassing, Was exactly the same with Ralph until we all got our way and it will be the same with the next manager if he doesn't win his 1st three games in charge.  

 

It's probably the owners, players, fans that are the the poison running through this club not the scapegoats chosen.

RIGHTO!

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4 minutes ago, JRM said:

I actually agree to some extent, not a fan of the personal attacks, he doesn't deserve that and has had to put up with it since arriving really  , don't think it reflects well on the fans but we've had so much rubbish for years someone was always going to take the brunt of fans frustration 

Yes, for sure fans have vent frustration of many years of crap - but I don't think it's fair to say that we're just giving him the brunt of all that het up frustration. He's bringing this all on himself, not just from losing games, but from what he's saying and how he's acting. He's single handily alienated the entire fan base, coaching staff and a group of first team players in one foul swoop.

The only positive you can put on this guy is that he's united people.

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2 minutes ago, SotonianWill said:

they so clearly do not like each other 😂

It is difficult to find positives yesterday but if there was 1 thing you could be positive about was the 18 year old in the middle of the park. You saw a quality player and, at the time he went off, the only player that looked like being able to unlock the defence with a pass.

Keep him on. He has to learn to still be effective while on a card. Viera didn’t go off when he was booked or Keane or… He was playing well, trust him, if he fucks up I’m sure he would learn from it.  We need Lavia if there is any hope of survival, this could have been a good show of trust from the manager to a young player but has ended up with this!

 

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This is sad really it is , for how many years have we all wanted an owner who would put his money in and buy players to strengthen the team without selling our best players .

Well we have exactly what we all wished for in Dragan Slovak however he has a bunch of numpties running the club day to day , he needs to remove Semmens , Steele and Ankersan as well as Mad Nat .

Dragan deserves our respect and adoration in the same way Marcus does , more so in a way if you look at the comparision between what 160m on players V 14 million to buy us out of administration .

The only difference is success on the pitch maybe it will come if the owner steps up i hope he does.

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  • Lighthouse changed the title to Nathan Jones
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