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Nathan Jones


AlexLaw76
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13 minutes ago, Turkish said:

in the press conference interview he says he’s compromised because of the way people want to play, I wonder who the “that is…

could be SR but there were also rumours of a big bust up with the players and coaches during the palace game so could be them.

he then went on about how he was one of the best in Europe again though 

The "best in Europe on the stats" point I take as no more than him highlighting what he was good at that got him the job, but that he's had to compromise and do something else, hence why we've been shit. Yep, he's absolutely not owning the disastrous results, but he's saying that there's influence.

I still want him gone as his role is untenable, but there's shit going in that's a factor in that. 

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Players absolutely need to take a lot of blame for the situation.  If they can play like they did against Man City and then not show anything close to that commitment in any of the other games then that's down to them as much as NJ.  

I can't see NJ lasting and I don't like him anyway but whoever comes in needs to be a good man manager first and foremost.  Personally I think that's what makes great managers anyway - tactics, formations, style etc are important but if you can't get the players on board and winning first and second balls then it doesn't really matter what philosophy the manager has.  He may be different in real life than he is in interviews but NJ comes across as the type of person I'd hate to work under - erratic, inconsistent and frankly a bit unstable.  It's like he read a book on being a good manager but didn't understand it.

Sure I saw Jacob Tanswell saying he was going to be doing an article in The Athletic about the game yesterday - it's not up yet, wonder if there's anything going on to cause him to hold fire on it?

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2 minutes ago, SotonianWill said:

the problem we have now is with a really fast winger who probably likes the ball on the floor, and a 6ft 7 striker who can’t win a header, is that suited to nathan jones “real” football style or were they signed for his supposed “faking it for past 3 months” style. we’ve just spent 40 odd million on them.

So that is your verdict on a player who had arrived in the country and joined up with his new team mates only 24 hour before the game, almost certainly hadn't trained with the team and played 45 mins when we were chasing the game and already beaten? Somebody on here yesterday who was at the game also said that this was nonsense. He had actually got his head to a reasonable percentage of high balls pumped up to him.

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12 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

There's still 25% of the country intending to vote Tory

I know, another thing that baffles me. But unfortunately you're always going to have a sprinkling of the thick and gullible out there to deal with. 🤷‍♂️

I'd say Jones has unified the fans in his sacking at least. 
Isn't his wifes side of the family all Saints fans? I wonder what they're thinking right now. 🤣

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16 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

comes to something when even you cant be bothered to defend the undefendable 🤣

I’ll defend him when it’s pony. When people claim he’s a Sunday league manager, or Lyanco couldn’t get in the Havant side. Some of the pony written about the Newcastle game was ott as well. But yesterday was every bit as bad as Ralph’s “effort” up there last year, so I’m not going to defend that.
 

I didn’t mind him calling out the twats in our fan base or our useless spineless players, but yesterdays interviews weren’t that and weren’t appropriate. I get where he’s coming from, he hasn’t played the Jones game. But I think the conflict is with himself rather than others telling him how to play, but he’s not man enough to admit it.

Like Graham Taylor did at England, he’s compromised his natural game and pulled back from going for his own style because he probably thought he needed a more sophisticated version at the higher level. Once you go away from your core beliefs you’re fucked. He looks like he’s trying to buy himself time, but the time to impose your “play book” is the first few weeks, he’s now going to try from a position of weakness. A more or less impossible thing to do. 
 

 

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11 minutes ago, Crab Lungs said:

I’m going to listen to it again… I thought SR!

He spent Newcastle post match blaming the players for his errors in selection and tactics. He spent the brentford one saying it was his fault... And then spent the next few minutes saying what a wonderful manager he is and sagging off the performance from the players, says players win matches, not systems... Then says he's basically catered to the players rather than his system (but it's all his fault not the players 🙄).

Add to that that on the back of dropping orsic DCC and mara to the reserves he's made his comments about not accommodating certain things etc anymore (and bearing in mind they've all been playing recently every 3-4 days so benching would have been fine). 

Plus you had ITKs and rumours coming out Immediatley after the Newcastle game to say the dressing room was unhappy about the selection and post match comments... And low and behold, players dropped to the reserve squad. Something had happened. Takes a very blind leap of faith to assume the dressing room is fine and it's SR he's falling out with! 

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2 minutes ago, miserableoldgit said:

So that is your verdict on a player who had arrived in the country and joined up with his new team mates only 24 hour before the game, almost certainly hadn't trained with the team and played 45 mins when we were chasing the game and already beaten? Somebody on here yesterday who was at the game also said that this was nonsense. He had actually got his head to a reasonable percentage of high balls pumped up to him.

the commentators literally mentioned that he hadn’t won a header, and how tf does not training with the team affect the basic football ability to get his head to a long ball 😂. i’m not calling him shit, i’m simply debating whether he’d suit Jones real style as seen vs forest.

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1 minute ago, revolution saint said:

Players absolutely need to take a lot of blame for the situation.  If they can play like they did against Man City and then not show anything close to that commitment in any of the other games then that's down to them as much as NJ.  

I can't see NJ lasting and I don't like him anyway but whoever comes in needs to be a good man manager first and foremost.  Personally I think that's what makes great managers anyway - tactics, formations, style etc are important but if you can't get the players on board and winning first and second balls then it doesn't really matter what philosophy the manager has.  He may be different in real life than he is in interviews but NJ comes across as the type of person I'd hate to work under - erratic, inconsistent and frankly a bit unstable.  It's like he read a book on being a good manager but didn't understand it.

Sure I saw Jacob Tanswell saying he was going to be doing an article in The Athletic about the game yesterday - it's not up yet, wonder if there's anything going on to cause him to hold fire on it?

This entirely, and that is why Eddie Howe immediately got people onside at Newcastle. Yes, they've spent money since but he came in on the 8th November, and their form immediately improved and they started getting points in. Come the end of January they'd picked up eleven points and then their form continued upwards.

Man-management makes or breaks it entirely.

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14 minutes ago, egg said:

Yep, either or both. If it's players then it's his job to manage them. If it's SR though, he hasn't got a prayer (no pun intended). If it's players and SR, his authority is being undermined at both ends. 

My instinct, and it's only that, is that there is SR involvement somewhere. If that's the case, that interview could be a "fuck you SR, see where your way has got us. From now on I'm doing it my way, and bin me if you're not gonna allow that" kind of interview.

As I've said above, the reaction on here has been superficial. That's understandable cos it sounds awful, but there's a depth to that interview that we don't know about.

Not the time for conspiracy theories.

if SR had the confidence on a level they portray with Jones there then it is unlikely they will be influencing decisions pitch related.

I don’t believe it for a second, it’s just a smoke screen by Jones to hide his total amateurism in every department.

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3 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

Because you want it to be maybe. He spent Newcastle post match blaming the players. He spent the brentford one saying it was his fault... And then spent the next few minutes saying what a wonderful manager he is and sagging off the performance from the players, says players win matches, not systems... Then says he's basically catered to the players rather than his system (but it's all his fault not the players 🙄).

Add to that that on the back of dropping orsic DCC and mara to the reserves he's made his comments about not accommodating certain things etc anymore (and bearing in mind they've all been playing recently every 3-4 days so benching would have been fine). 

Plus you had ITKs and rumours coming out Immediatley after the Newcastle game to say the dressing room was unhappy about the selection and post match comments... And low and behold, players dropped to the reserve squad. 

I must've missed all that. Who came out and said what in the dressing room? What did Selles do?

I'm hoping some form of ITK on here (if there is any), pipe up this morning and say "He's gone!" Or words to that effect.

Edited by FarehamSaintJames
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1 minute ago, Saint86 said:

Because you want it to be maybe. He spent Newcastle post match blaming the players. He spent the brentford one saying it was his fault... And then spent the next few minutes saying what a wonderful manager he is and sagging off the performance from the players, says players win matches, not systems... Then says he's basically catered to the players rather than his system (but it's all his fault not the players 🙄).

Add to that that on the back of dropping orsic DCC and mara to the reserves he's made his comments about not accommodating certain things etc anymore (and bearing in mind they've all been playing recently every 3-4 days so benching would have been fine). 

Plus you had ITKs and rumours coming out Immediatley after the Newcastle game to say the dressing room was unhappy about the selection and post match comments... And low and behold, players dropped to the reserve squad. 

Well, fair one, when you put it like that. Seems absolutely plausible, especially the dropped players.

And I forgot about the touchline argument he had with Selles at Newcastle too. 

will be fascinating to find out some truths when this all ends…

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21 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

I would like to see a new management team of Roy Keane and John Terry.

Both are winners and played the game at the highest level.  Both have coaching experience and have learned from the best managers in the game.

If the players step out of line they can expect Keane to knock them out and Terry to shag their wives.

Or vice versa. 

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1 minute ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

I must've missed all that. Who came out and said what in the dressing room?

I'm hoping some form of ITK on here (if there is any), pipe up this morning and say "He's gone!" Or words to that effect.

This afternoon. Selles interim manager and reaccess in the summer

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5 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

This entirely, and that is why Eddie Howe immediately got people onside at Newcastle. Yes, they've spent money since but he came in on the 8th November, and their form immediately improved and they started getting points in. Come the end of January they'd picked up eleven points and then their form continued upwards.

Man-management makes or breaks it entirely.

sadly lots of the fanbase used to be so against appointing howe as he somehow ‘failed at bournemouth’ deluded twats still wouldn’t have accepted even him!

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The interview sounds like it’s not as in depth as we are thinking. Sounds more like the usual spill that he speaks in order to cover his own tracks and not take responsibility.
 

It seems like yes, he gave into fan pressure and more than likely player pressure to play a back four formation.  Now he’s using it as a time to go “told you so” when that’s just pathetic, it’s not the back four that’s the issue, it’s the players selected in the starting line up and the way the players have been instructed and drilled before hand. 

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4 minutes ago, captainchris said:

Not the time for conspiracy theories.

if SR had the confidence on a level they portray with Jones there then it is unlikely they will be influencing decisions pitch related.

I don’t believe it for a second, it’s just a smoke screen by Jones to hide his total amateurism in every department.

No conspiracy theory from me. It's Jones who has said that he's been made to compromise. A discussion about who's behind that is absolutely the right thing to do... ignoring it isn't. 

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4 minutes ago, Crab Lungs said:

Well, fair one, when you put it like that. Seems absolutely plausible, especially the dropped players.

And I forgot about the touchline argument he had with Selles at Newcastle too. 

will be fascinating to find out some truths when this all ends…

Yes I agree it will be interesting. Ultimatley we can all just speculate. The guy has a chip on his shoulder about his ability / experience, and has never once owned being a Premier league mananger. It's not surprising if he has rubbed up players and other coaches the wrong way! And I said all of this not even being aware he'd had a falling out will selles at Newcastle 😅😂

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Just now, SotonianWill said:

sadly lots of the fanbase used to be so against appointing howe as he somehow ‘failed at bournemouth’ deluded twats still wouldn’t have accepted even him!

He didn’t fail at Bournemouth, he did fail at Burnley - so his record was essentially the same as Jones’, except Jones didn’t have the huge spending power Howe had at Bournemouth. If Jones had taken over the unified and buoyant fanbase that Howe walked into at Newcastle, with a huge cash injection a month or two later, who knows how he’d have fared. If people were sceptical about Jones’ appointment then they would’ve been justified in being sceptical about Howe too (pre-Newcastle).

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4 minutes ago, trousers said:

He seemed fine with players questioning his tactics a few weeks ago...

 

Screenshot_20230205-102529.png

He was happy taking the plaudits then, but now he's losing its the players' fault and he's spent 2 post match presser very publically throwing them under the bus... Can you imagine the dressing room atmosphere 😢

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1 minute ago, SotonianWill said:

sadly lots of the fanbase used to be so against appointing howe as he somehow ‘failed at bournemouth’ deluded twats still wouldn’t have accepted even him!

Isn't suggesting that he would have been a success at Saints because he ended up being a success at Newcastle straying into non-sequitur territory?

(FWIW, I think he would have been a good choice for us but just pointing out that there was no guarantee that he would have been successful here)

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1 minute ago, Saint86 said:

Yes I agree it will be interesting. Ultimatley we can all just speculate. The guy has a chip on his shoulder about his ability / experience, and has never once owned being a Premier league mananger. It's not surprising if he has rubbed up players and other coaches the wrong way! And I said all of this not even being aware he'd had a falling out will selles at Newcastle 😅😂

I’m pretty sure I remember when the camera cut to them during the final knockings they were having a bit of a ding-dong. Can someone confirm? Unsurprisingly, I didn’t record the game 😂

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28 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

If what you say is true (there's another if) then more fool him for not being his own man.

I completely agree. However I suspect he said what he needed to in order to get the job, thinking he could change things as soon as he arrived and do what he wanted. Unfortunately he found he couldn’t and has tried to run with it hoping that results would follow. 

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As far as I am aware SR aren’t calling the shots, so far as there certainly isn’t any murmurs from the training ground to suggest it… Im not convinced he has the confidence of his full squad though…

I always find those sorts of rumours strange anyway, it isn’t a situation that really happens outside of clubs that have a proper DoF and even then generally a ‘way of playing’ is agreed before contracts are signed 

I imagine this ‘influence’ is more player/Selles related but it begs the question, if Jones is such a headstrong chap why hasn’t he installed his ‘systems’ already ? He’s had long enough… it took Dyche less than a week to get the squad largely pulling in his direction

Frankly… if ‘his’ system is 5 at the back long ball football then it doesn’t suit either this squad or the two wingers we signed in January… and if he isn’t comfortable coaching systems that suit our current squad then it begs the question why the fuck was he hired and why is he still here ?

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39 minutes ago, Miltonaggro said:

Worth a crafty tenner on a Lage and Selles Algarve chillout remix. Hipster enough for Rasmus to retain some Ted points and likely to get us organised and looking like a team. Lage might fancy it and I don’t think Selles has done anything wrong, he’s liked by the players. Tick tock. 

Yeah I could get behind some Iberian chill out mix

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1 hour ago, egg said:

Yep. That Blackmore interview throws up more questions than answers for me. He's clearly been doing as he's been told, but he doesn't say by who. He's content to point the finger of blame at his players, but he doesn't point the finger at them on the compromise issue. That could be him showing some restraint (bot his style though) or that he feels he can't say any more.

I'm not convinced that Ralph had free rein over team selections, and I'm not convinced that Jones does either. 

Sorry egg but I don’t buy that unless you have more than just a feeling - by all means share it via pm if you feel it too much to put in the public domain.
 

Jones is a man that would name names he is already on record as saying that players have come to him with reservations about the set up of the team - he is known for playing a back 5/3. At the end of the day he is a drowning man grabbing desperately at anything he feels might save him but not realising the further damage he is doing to himself and by association SFC. 

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Thought I'd try to put this into an office setting - 

He's got a team working on a project. When it goes well, as PM he's up there taking all the credit whilst his team have put in the hard work and grind to deliver...

The second things then go badly, he's essentially announced to the entire company (or in this case the country) that what's gone wrong is the workers under him are shit and have done a bad job (Newcastle post match), rather than aknowledge that they were following his instructions and working practices, so if the team can't do it they weren't well enough prepared... 

Following that, in the background, some of his team have had internal discussions and quiet words with him, raised concerns, asked to try things a bit differently, possibly even commented on his man management style (according to some rumours) etc.

Jones's response was then to effectivley kick them off the project (dump them in the reserves for a week or so), and then tell his bosses and the wider company (and anyone who will listen - I.e. The media in this instance), that he's a great mananger, that his staff aren't performing, and that some of them have been kicked off the project (without naming names but via insinuation - knowing full well its easy to see who he means). - the brentford post match. 

Its not great is it? Working for him you don't know if you're going to get blamed/shamed/punished following a bad result. Although I aknowledge that the dynamic is different at a football club with the aspects of player power. 

We can only really know what he says to us through his interviews and press conferences, those are his chance to speak to the fans. But by all accounts, my takeaway since the start is that he has a huge chip on his shoulder about his experience levels ("with the greatest respect" at Luton i was manager of the year, blah blah blah"), and he comes accross as the absolute worse kind of people manager - re what is effectivley a blame and bullying culture following bad results. Now maybe I'm doing him wrong by progressively developing that impression, but its where I am at with him now - and the rumour mill is equally circulating similar. 

Regardless, if he isn't going, hopefully he turns it around. And we'll see how it all turns out whether he's lost some or all of the dressing room, or whether he really was having a bash at SR... 

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  • Lighthouse changed the title to Nathan Jones
  • AlexLaw76 changed the title to Nathan Jones - Sacked (Official)!

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