Nathan Jones

[Dman]

33 minutes ago, stevegrant said:

Highly rated as a coach, certainly, but failed miserably in his one actual managerial gig. That would probably imply that he's good at the technical side of things, perhaps less so at the collective tactical angle and/or man-management.

Possibly, or it could be that Monaco wasn’t a great fit for him. They were a bit of a mess at the time and on a cowards trend. Certainly not the club they were a few years back. 

IIRC, Kompany wasn’t a raving success at Anderlecht. 

[Roo1976]

1 hour ago, Pengi said:

They need time - look at Arteta when Arsenal were bottom of the league and their fans clamouring for him to leave. But Arteta learned from Guardiola. Who has Jones learned from?

Ivor the engine.....................

[Miltonaggro]

2 hours ago, Pengi said:

They need time - look at Arteta when Arsenal were bottom of the league and their fans clamouring for him to leave. But Arteta learned from Guardiola. Who has Jones learned from?

Rhys Ifans in Notting Hill. 

[saintjimbo83]

If you couldn’t hate the manager anymore, just take a look at the B team Line up.

DCC is our most experienced CB and should be starting for us. I would suggest this means either Lyanco or Bednarek starting in a back 4 or even worse both in a 3.

Get ready for the hardworking and no end product Moi starting too.

If going tomorrow wasn’t already a chore.

I really hope I’m wrong with the line up, but doesn’t look encouraging. 

 

 

[badgerx16]

1 minute ago, saintjimbo83 said:

If you couldn’t hate the manager anymore, just take a look at the B team Line up.

DCC is our most experienced CB and should be starting for us. I would suggest this means either Lyanco or Bednarek starting in a back 4 or even worse both in a 3.

Get ready for the hardworking and no end product Moi starting too.

If going tomorrow wasn’t already a chore.

I really hope I’m wrong with the line up, but doesn’t look encouraging. 

 

 

Back 3 tomorrow: Lyanco, Janny B, and Perraud 😉

[Give it to Ron]

4 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Back 3 tomorrow: Lyanco, Janny B, and Perraud 😉

No it will be Bree

[LGTL]

He clearly already has his favourites. Unfortunately for us, his favourites are mostly fucking shit. Clown of a bloke, he really is. 

We’re going to go into tomorrow with a back 5 of Bree, Lyanco, Bednarek, Salisu and KWP aren’t we. Absolutely mind blowing. 

Edited 3 February, 2023 by LGTL

[Fan The Flames]

2 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

This debate reminded me of when Poch came in as manager. We got rid of a well liked guy in Adkins and brought in someone who didn't speak English, there was talk of protests and chants in his first home game etc, which kind of didn't materialise but the point i'm trying to make is that his football/results turned around the feeling, almost immediately. The first game against Everton was a total change up, you could see what we were trying to do even though it was just a draw. The inevitable upturn came after that.

With Jones, he had similar opinions before he started here. No one wanted him, people against him before he'd started etc. But rather than turn that view around by managing, he has managed to solidify that view by losing games, not having any identify and critising the fan base. That's why he's making it toxic.

Also the initial anti-Poch feeling was as much about being loyal to Adkins, who took us up, as it was being anti-Poch. And as you say it soon dissipated once people saw what we had got.

[Osvaldorama]

Wtf is going on? Why is Orsic and our best CBS playing for the u23s? 

[Pilchards]

2 hours ago, Huffton said:

Face it, he isn't going anywhere. IF Semmens/Ankersen/SR honestly think we won't be too badly financially effected if we go down then they have played a blinder. If he keeps us up (lol) then all well and good, if (when) we go down they already have an experienced Championship manager in place for a promotion push. The board have played a (cheap) blinder🙄

Oh Jones is not going anywhere that’s for sure.

I do honestly think they are going to review things end of the season. 

[hypochondriac]

25 minutes ago, LGTL said:

He clearly already has his favourites. Unfortunately for us, his favourites are mostly fucking shit. Clown of a bloke, he really is. 

We’re going to go into tomorrow with a back 5 of Bree, Lyanco, Bednarek, Salisu and KWP aren’t we. Absolutely mind blowing. 

I think is nailed on to play now if fit. I'm not even saying he's a bad player but a blind person can see that KWP is our best RB at the club and shoving him out of position on the left just deprives us of a proper LB. 

[badgerx16]

6 minutes ago, Pilchards said:

Oh Jones is not going anywhere that’s for sure.

I do honestly think they are going to review things end of the season. 

Unless he fairly soon falls on his head and gets some common sense knocked in, it will be too late.

[Super_Uwe]

This season is all about staying up, whether that's 14th, 16th or 17th place it doesn't matters in the slightest.

If we stay up I think NJ will be given time to build something (and in all fairness he will deserve that).

If we get relegated I think the relationship with the fans will be so toxic that he'll have to go. Doesn't matter how good his record has been in the Championship. It's already bad enough because there is a real disconnect and almost lack of trust from the fan base. That's not normal for a manager who's been in charge for two months.

[Dman]

2 minutes ago, Super_Uwe said:

This season is all about staying up, whether that's 14th, 16th or 17th place it doesn't matters in the slightest.

If we stay up I think NJ will be given time to build something (and in all fairness he will deserve that).

If we get relegated I think the relationship with the fans will be so toxic that he'll have to go. Doesn't matter how good his record has been in the Championship. It's already bad enough because there is a real disconnect and almost lack of trust from the fan base. That's not normal for a manager who's been in charge for two months.

NJ has been given more time to build something than any manager who come in mid season has ever had. 

If you could see what his attempted tactics were, then you’d give him more sympathy. The issue is, we have no tactics, no style.

Just kick and run shit. It’s championship football being played by a championship manager. 

[Super_Uwe]

2 minutes ago, Dman said:

NJ has been given more time to build something than any manager who come in mid season has ever had. 

If you could see what his attempted tactics were, then you’d give him more sympathy. The issue is, we have no tactics, no style.

Just kick and run shit. It’s championship football being played by a championship manager. 

He hasn't really had time. A couple of months is nowhere near long enough for any manager. And he's now been given some new players to work with. 

However he's done absolutely nothing to build bridges with the fans since he joined. Which will ultimately be his downfall in my view.

[OldNick]

1 minute ago, Super_Uwe said:

He hasn't really had time. A couple of months is nowhere near long enough for any manager. And he's now been given some new players to work with. 

However he's done absolutely nothing to build bridges with the fans since he joined. Which will ultimately be his downfall in my view.

Point is, do they want to build bridges. Once they have decided it is hard to turn them back. Well the ones on here, to be fair the fans in the main are fair and only want to see us improve and give us hope. 

[S-Clarke]

1 hour ago, Osvaldorama said:

Wtf is going on? Why is Orsic and our best CBS playing for the u23s? 

I think as a fan base we all think this is nuts, but I think this confirms that he see's Lyanco as one of his starting 11 players every week. What a truly depressing thought.

[OldNick]

1 hour ago, Osvaldorama said:

Wtf is going on? Why is Orsic and our best CBS playing for the u23s? 

Having watched Orsic play, I dont think as yet he has made himself a must pick

[S-Clarke]

Just now, OldNick said:

Having watched Orsic play, I dont think as yet he has made himself a must pick

Having watched Lyanco play I don't think he's a footballer, yet he still starts.

[SaintJakko]

We are going down with Nathan Jones in charge. He’s gone in and started a fire on an already sinking ship. So not only are we sinking now, we are engulfed in flames. Thanks nathe. 

[AlexLaw76]

Listened to the Totally football show and the panel (inc Carl Anka) touch on Saints Jones a few times.

Away at Newcastle, they commented that it was clear some of our players had little idea what they were supposed to be doing, with jones jumping around furiously in the first 20 mins (the press box is very close to the dugouts apparently).  At one point, Alcaraz come over and could be heard suggesting he did not know what the manager wanted him to do.

Also, the panel have been perplexed with our attacking intent.  Lumping the ball into the box, with Dan Burn easily repelling the ball many times

[OldNick]

9 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Having watched Lyanco play I don't think he's a footballer, yet he still starts.

He's hot and cold for me. I agree DCC seems calmer, but Lyanco does give us an edge. Be interesting how he deals with Toney. Personally I dont see any of then really up to it. DCC was skinned by the Newcastle player who crossed for Lintons goal as SMS, they may have counted against him. 

My head is in a mix knowing what is best, the next 2 games are the acid test whether the groundswell becomes an avalanche

[stevegrant]

I think there are occasions where you want the desire to be proactive like Lyanco does, he's largely pretty good at stepping out and intercepting those balls in the channels that cause us so many problems. However, he has absolutely no "chill" mode at all, which must rub off on people around him and make everyone a bit skittish.

DCC hasn't been perfect by any means since he's come into the team, but I think he looks like the guy who's got the most balanced defensive attributes. He's decent in the air, he's fairly calm under pressure (Lyanco absolutely would have - justifiably, obviously  - lumped Jacob Murphy after the red card last week) and isn't completely terrifying when the ball is at his feet. He is also the most experienced and has the greatest pedigree, so feels like the most natural fit as the defensive leader we've lacked for ages.

[revolution saint]

2 minutes ago, stevegrant said:

I think there are occasions where you want the desire to be proactive like Lyanco does, he's largely pretty good at stepping out and intercepting those balls in the channels that cause us so many problems. However, he has absolutely no "chill" mode at all, which must rub off on people around him and make everyone a bit skittish.

DCC hasn't been perfect by any means since he's come into the team, but I think he looks like the guy who's got the most balanced defensive attributes. He's decent in the air, he's fairly calm under pressure (Lyanco absolutely would have - justifiably, obviously  - lumped Jacob Murphy after the red card last week) and isn't completely terrifying when the ball is at his feet. He is also the most experienced and has the greatest pedigree, so feels like the most natural fit as the defensive leader we've lacked for ages.

You talking about Jones or Lyanco?

[stevegrant]

Just now, revolution saint said:

You talking about Jones or Lyanco?

[OldNick]

6 minutes ago, stevegrant said:

I think there are occasions where you want the desire to be proactive like Lyanco does, he's largely pretty good at stepping out and intercepting those balls in the channels that cause us so many problems. However, he has absolutely no "chill" mode at all, which must rub off on people around him and make everyone a bit skittish.

DCC hasn't been perfect by any means since he's come into the team, but I think he looks like the guy who's got the most balanced defensive attributes. He's decent in the air, he's fairly calm under pressure (Lyanco absolutely would have - justifiably, obviously  - lumped Jacob Murphy after the red card last week) and isn't completely terrifying when the ball is at his feet. He is also the most experienced and has the greatest pedigree, so feels like the most natural fit as the defensive leader we've lacked for ages.

A very measured and fair assessment. This whole defence reminds me when we went down under Harry, when we bought Jacobson in and we never had any commanding centre back. oh for a Killer

[Lee On Solent Saint]

24 minutes ago, OldNick said:

He's hot and cold for me. I agree DCC seems calmer, but Lyanco does give us an edge. Be interesting how he deals with Toney. Personally I dont see any of then really up to it. DCC was skinned by the Newcastle player who crossed for Lintons goal as SMS, they may have counted against him. 

My head is in a mix knowing what is best, the next 2 games are the acid test whether the groundswell becomes an avalanche

Even Ralph realised he was more cold than hot. Lyanco does not give us an edge, he puts us all on edge.

[Miltonaggro]

2 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

Also the initial anti-Poch feeling was as much about being loyal to Adkins, who took us up, as it was being anti-Poch. And as you say it soon dissipated once people saw what we had got.

Spot on, my perception at the time too.

[AlexLaw76]

The man just talks filth

 

[ally_uk]

9 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

The man just talks filth

 

How is this 🤡 still manager of Southampton FC can somebody with some common sense explain why? 

Systems don't win games? Did I honestly just read that..... 

🤣🤣🤣🤣

 

We are in big trouble boys with this buffoon at the helm.... 

[stevegrant]

1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said:

The man just talks filth

 

Yeah, just an out-and-out lie

FACT CHECK: All of our games and goals since Nathan Jones' appointment

Liverpool (A) - Adams. WITH A BACK 5 But Jones claims that this game doesn't count towards his win ratio, so do we credit him with a goal while we're playing a back 5? 🤔
Lincoln (H) - Adams x2. ONE GOAL WITH A BACK 5. Substitutions made at half-time to switch to a back 4.
Brighton (H) - JWP. Back 4. Which surprised me looking back, as I could have sworn we'd gone with 5 in that one.
Fulham (A) - JWP. Back 4. Started with a back 5, changed to a 4 at half-time.
Nottingham Forest (H) - no goals. Back 5.
Palace (A) - JWP, A Armstrong. Back 4
Man City (H) - Mara, Djenepo. Back 4
Everton (A) - JWP x2. Back 4. Switched to a back 5 very late on to hang on.
Aston Villa (H) - no goals. Back 4.
Newcastle (H) - no goals. Back 4.
Blackpool (H) - Perraud x2. Back 4.
Newcastle (A) - Adams. Back 4. Started with a 5 with dreadful consequences, switched to a back 4 during a prolonged injury break to Joelinton, goal came a minute later.

So we've scored 14 goals in 12 games, of which two have been scored while we have had a back 5 in operation.

[madge]

If I was the owner I’d be really concerned about his press conferences.. it’s like he’s constantly confusing himself and I’ve no idea what the players must think.  If he goes to a back 5 tomorrow and we lose it should be game over for him, lose against wolves and it’s pretty much game over for us. Minimum of 4 points required over next 2 games.

[OldNick]

9 minutes ago, stevegrant said:

Yeah, just an out-and-out lie

FACT CHECK: All of our games and goals since Nathan Jones' appointment

Liverpool (A) - Adams. WITH A BACK 5 But Jones claims that this game doesn't count towards his win ratio, so do we credit him with a goal while we're playing a back 5? 🤔
Lincoln (H) - Adams x2. ONE GOAL WITH A BACK 5. Substitutions made at half-time to switch to a back 4.
Brighton (H) - JWP. Back 4. Which surprised me looking back, as I could have sworn we'd gone with 5 in that one.
Fulham (A) - JWP. Back 4. Started with a back 5, changed to a 4 at half-time.
Nottingham Forest (H) - no goals. Back 5.
Palace (A) - JWP, A Armstrong. Back 4
Man City (H) - Mara, Djenepo. Back 4
Everton (A) - JWP x2. Back 4. Switched to a back 5 very late on to hang on.
Aston Villa (H) - no goals. Back 4.
Newcastle (H) - no goals. Back 4.
Blackpool (H) - Perraud x2. Back 4.
Newcastle (A) - Adams. Back 4. Started with a 5 with dreadful consequences, switched to a back 4 during a prolonged injury break to Joelinton, goal came a minute later.

So we've scored 14 goals in 12 games, of which two have been scored while we have had a back 5 in operation.

I do wonder why the clubs PR people are not giving him advice or recommendations how this is making his and the clubs situation harder.

[Toadhall Saint]

3 minutes ago, OldNick said:

I do wonder why the clubs PR people are not giving him advice or recommendations how this is making his and the clubs situation harder.

Mate stop banging the drum for him. Fact is if we lose tomorrow and against wolves it will be nigh on impossible to recover (CB Fry will do the maths). My only hope is that we win tomorrow and those above us lose (not win or draw) as there games on paper look to be tougher.

[Weston Super Saint]

18 minutes ago, stevegrant said:

Yeah, just an out-and-out lie

FACT CHECK: All of our games and goals since Nathan Jones' appointment

Liverpool (A) - Adams. WITH A BACK 5 But Jones claims that this game doesn't count towards his win ratio, so do we credit him with a goal while we're playing a back 5? 🤔
Lincoln (H) - Adams x2. ONE GOAL WITH A BACK 5. Substitutions made at half-time to switch to a back 4.
Brighton (H) - JWP. Back 4. Which surprised me looking back, as I could have sworn we'd gone with 5 in that one.
Fulham (A) - JWP. Back 4. Started with a back 5, changed to a 4 at half-time.
Nottingham Forest (H) - no goals. Back 5.
Palace (A) - JWP, A Armstrong. Back 4
Man City (H) - Mara, Djenepo. Back 4
Everton (A) - JWP x2. Back 4. Switched to a back 5 very late on to hang on.
Aston Villa (H) - no goals. Back 4.
Newcastle (H) - no goals. Back 4.
Blackpool (H) - Perraud x2. Back 4.
Newcastle (A) - Adams. Back 4. Started with a 5 with dreadful consequences, switched to a back 4 during a prolonged injury break to Joelinton, goal came a minute later.

So we've scored 14 goals in 12 games, of which two have been scored while we have had a back 5 in operation.

But, but, but... He's still learning. He needs to be given time!

[S-Clarke]

He doesn't help himself does he. This is playing out exactly as it did in Stoke, some of their concerns at the time are as follows:

- Never wrong, blaming everyone else. It was the management before him and the malaise of relegation holing him back

- Alienated the fan base.

- Chopping and changing the team, keeping underperforming players in the 11 but always changing the better ones.

- Obsession over a diamond formation when they didn't have the players suited to it.

Those were direct views from the Stoke forum when he was there, how scary is that? (I was a bit bored and scoured their ‘JONES OUT’ thread. It's exactly the same.

[Miltonaggro]

20 minutes ago, OldNick said:

I do wonder why the clubs PR people are not giving him advice or recommendations how this is making his and the clubs situation harder.

Maybe they are and he's not listening, or not capable of taking advice. 

[S-Clarke]

Just now, Miltonaggro said:

Maybe they are and he's not listening, or not capable of taking advice. 

I'd imagine he will happily ignore anyone and everyones advice. He seemingly always knows best.

[OldNick]

Just now, Miltonaggro said:

Maybe they are and he's not listening, or not capable of taking advice. 

Did I readsomewhere that ANkerson had told him that he wanted NJ to play a 5 at the back?? In the back of mind I thought I read that early days

[Wurzel]

9 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

But, but, but... He's still learning. He needs to be given time!

Heard about Will Still this morning. Took over at Reims in Ligue 1 in October initially as caretaker. They decided to keep him on, so far his record is P13 W7 D6 L0.  He's in his 30s, learnt his trade playing Football Manager (yes really) and Reims are currently paying a £24000 fine every game as he don't have a Pro-coaching licence. 
It seems not everybody needs time.

[OldNick]

14 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

Mate stop banging the drum for him. Fact is if we lose tomorrow and against wolves it will be nigh on impossible to recover (CB Fry will do the maths). My only hope is that we win tomorrow and those above us lose (not win or draw) as there games on paper look to be tougher.

If he is not going to try and help himself then he is indefensible, he isnt my choice, just wnt to give him the chance. No idea who could come in anyway

[SaintJakko]

5 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

He doesn't help himself does he. This is playing out exactly as it did in Stoke, some of their concerns at the time are as follows:

- Never wrong, blaming everyone else. It was the management before him and the malaise of relegation holing him back

- Alienated the fan base.

- Chopping and changing the team, keeping underperforming players in the 11 but always changing the better ones.

- Obsession over a diamond formation when they didn't have the players suited to it.

Those were direct views from the Stoke forum when he was there, how scary is that? (I was a bit bored and scoured their ‘JONES OUT’ thread. It's exactly the same.

As the famous quote goes "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it." -George Santayana

[AlexLaw76]

 

[once_bitterne]

1 hour ago, Super_Uwe said:

He hasn't really had time. A couple of months is nowhere near long enough for any manager. And he's now been given some new players to work with. 

However he's done absolutely nothing to build bridges with the fans since he joined. Which will ultimately be his downfall in my view.

Well indeed.  That and losing just about every PL game he manages in.  

[saintant]

Is he totally unaware of how he contradicts himself? In the presser he talks about Brentford under Franks and says they started with a back four and lost 8 out of 9 then changed to 343 and were brilliant. How does that equate with his earlier comment that systems don't win matches? He makes himself look foolish and I get the feeling everything he says is off the cuff without real substance or belief. He just answers a question and is blissfully oblivious when he totally contradicts himself on a later question.

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, saintant said:

Is he totally unaware of how he contradicts himself? In the presser he talks about Brentford under Franks and says they started with a back four and lost 8 out of 9 then changed to 343 and were brilliant. How does that equate with his earlier comment that systems don't win matches? He makes himself look foolish and I get the feeling everything he says is off the cuff without real substance or belief. He just answers a question and is blissfully oblivious when he totally contradicts himself on a later question.

This is a consistent tactic with him, he'll try and defend himself in any way by saying look at the past or look at x y z, they struggled as well etc - but usually at odds with what he said earlier. He never addresses his own problems head in, or admits to problems, he just looks at everyone else. The most defensive person I've ever come across.

[CB Fry]

1 hour ago, Toadhall Saint said:

Mate stop banging the drum for him. Fact is if we lose tomorrow and against wolves it will be nigh on impossible to recover (CB Fry will do the maths). My only hope is that we win tomorrow and those above us lose (not win or draw) as there games on paper look to be tougher.

I certainly will, but only when I get really fed up with the "look, we're only two wins from safety" stuff when we're 6 points adrift.

Edited 3 February, 2023 by CB Fry

[CB Fry]

2 hours ago, Super_Uwe said:

He hasn't really had time. A couple of months is nowhere near long enough for any manager. And he's now been given some new players to work with. 

However he's done absolutely nothing to build bridges with the fans since he joined. Which will ultimately be his downfall in my view.

But within a couple of months Ralph had turned things in the right direction, Koeman had and (the most accurate equivalent to Jones unpopular appointment) Pochettino had.

The new players need to click, quick.

Edited 3 February, 2023 by CB Fry

[LGTL]

59 minutes ago, Wurzel said:

Heard about Will Still this morning. Took over at Reims in Ligue 1 in October initially as caretaker. They decided to keep him on, so far his record is P13 W7 D6 L0.  He's in his 30s, learnt his trade playing Football Manager (yes really) and Reims are currently paying a £24000 fine every game as he don't have a Pro-coaching licence. 
It seems not everybody needs time.

I would rather have MLG in charge over Nathan Jones. Genuinely. 

[Toadhall Saint]

20 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

I certainly will, but only when I get really fed up with the "look, we're only two wins from safety" stuff when we're 6 points adrift.

Bugger I always look forward to your matter of fact posts at this time of year. Only problem is that it’s normally about another team ☹️