Nathan Jones

[a1ex2001]

12 hours ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

Not so much celebrating losing games by one, but it is a valid point. We have been close and competitive in most games. But when you have no clinical striker,and bazunu who lets most shots in even if they are are streight at him .. im sure you acknowledge we are at a disadvantage in 50/50 games where chances are few and far between, hate to think what would happen if jones took a 9-0 spanking like Ralph 😆 burn him at the stake 

Re formation, yeah like said above I think 433 is the best for us by far at the moment. But the 532 also allows us the 3 in midfield whilst also having two up top.. it’s possible to keep che in  the line up or even play sulemana off onuachu 

personally I’m a bit sick of 442 and having no protection in midfield after years of Ralphball so maybe I’m just happy it’s a change 

Close and competitive?  Have you been watching different games? Loosing by one goal doesn't mean the game was close we've hardly had a sniff in most of our defeats and even our cup victories against lower league dross have been unconvincing, Jones makes Mark Hughes look like a footballing genius and that takes some serious effort!

[Gingeletiss]

8 minutes ago, egg said:

Who's being played out of position?

If you mean KWP, he is just as happy and just as good at left back. We need height in a back 4 to have any chance at defending set pieces. It's obvious why we play a CB at full back if we have an short full back on the other side. You've only got to watch Newcastle to see how it can work. 2 decent CB's, Tripper on the right side, and to give more defensive height, and Burn (a CB) at LB to give height. Man City often do it with Stones, Ake or Akanji. 

If you mean JWP, he's been played on arguably his best position after being played out of position is a DM for ages.

Who else do you mean? 

Lyanco….Edozie……Alcatraz……Orsic, all have been played out of position. You can add Salisu, and let’s be fair, Diablo is not a DM.

[egg]

4 minutes ago, Gingeletiss said:

Lyanco….Edozie……Alcatraz……Orsic, all have been played out of position. You can add Salisu, and let’s be fair, Diablo is not a DM.

I've address CB (Salisu and Lyanco).

Edozie and Alcaraz have both been played on their positions.

Diallo has been played in position. He might not be good there, but he's not been out of position.

I think Jones is woeful, but CB's aside (but with good reason imo - Newcastle/Dan Burn are exhibit A), he's played players where they should be, and found a way to play JWP in his best position. 

 

[Gingeletiss]

20 minutes ago, egg said:

I've address CB (Salisu and Lyanco).

Edozie and Alcaraz have both been played on their positions.

Diallo has been played in position. He might not be good there, but he's not been out of position.

I think Jones is woeful, but CB's aside (but with good reason imo - Newcastle/Dan Burn are exhibit A), he's played players where they should be, and found a way to play JWP in his best position. 

 

Sorry, I disagree. The only thing I do agree with is JWP, he should of been playing there from the getgo.

[OldNick]

7 hours ago, austsaint said:

I'm confident in saying that if things do turn round, and we do stay up - it will be despite Jones efforts, not because of them.   The best 11-14 players we have now are capable of pulling SFC out of this hole.    It will be up to the players, Maybe Selles will step up to the plate; but Jones won't be the one "turning things around".

Ok Ralph, if you say so.

[grezz]

3 hours ago, Gingeletiss said:

I have been willing to give this bloke a chance, but he is a sub par Ralph imo. Players being played out of position, 5 at the back ffs, the best players left on the bench, or subbed off. Sorry boys and girls, he is a big nope from me.

I’ve been very disappointed with his tactics and selections thus far but I’m still giving him a chance, and actually I’m wiping his slate clean, but now there are no excuses to be had from him. I want to see what he does over the next 3 or 4 games before I jump on the Jones Out wagon. 

Edited 2 February, 2023 by grezz

[austsaint]

4 minutes ago, OldNick said:

Ok Ralph, if you say so.

You can do better than that Nick.    You've had a lot to say on this topic, but not really presented a case for why Jones should stay except for the need for positive support for the Manager.     I'm no supporter of Ralph - he should have been shown the door long before he was; yet for a couple of seasons he set the team up with an energy, press, quick movement and passing which we will never see from Jones.    Jones has a better squad of players now than Ralph ever had, yet we see baffling formations, changed team selections and an incoherent style of play.

Like I said - if we stay up; it won't have a great deal to do with NJ.    How about you tell the forum what he's done to earn your support apart from a belief in positivity.

[Viking Saint]

2 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Bazunu?

Post of the day, already 😆😆

[Jimbo]

17 hours ago, Golac's Cunning Stunts said:

Don't think even Jim down the pub would have started with that lineup and tactics last night

Read this down the pub last night - I can confirm you are correct.

[OldNick]

13 minutes ago, austsaint said:

You can do better than that Nick.    You've had a lot to say on this topic, but not really presented a case for why Jones should stay except for the need for positive support for the Manager.     I'm no supporter of Ralph - he should have been shown the door long before he was; yet for a couple of seasons he set the team up with an energy, press, quick movement and passing which we will never see from Jones.    Jones has a better squad of players now than Ralph ever had, yet we see baffling formations, changed team selections and an incoherent style of play.

Like I said - if we stay up; it won't have a great deal to do with NJ.    How about you tell the forum what he's done to earn your support apart from a belief in positivity.

Your first post above you stated that if we stay up NJ will have nothing to do with him. That obviously is nonsense and so my reply was a brush off to the post.

I have little evidence to say how NJ will improve or his attributes. I have seen a short period some players showing a bit of improvement, including JWP looking like his former self. The players at this moment look to be buying in, but Im not there to say for sure.

My other reasons I am backing NJ

1. I doubt SR will sack him, as they have belief in their own choice. Hence if we support him, it makes his job easier and the team can have less pressure. I doubt they look forward to playing at SMS as the fans are not giving their full support and are looking to have a go

2. If the players are having problems changing to a new style, how will they change again to another.

3. I want to see the ball in the box a bit more, with JWP etc driving into the box aka Newcastle do. 

4. I'm tired of us being pushovers and want us learning the dark arts, make us nastier, and not being the club away teams love to play.

I believe that NJ will instil a lot of this, we are where we are and so i am standing in the NJ in camp. If he fails we fail, that is the crux of it. 

All of us on here think we know best, but frankly we don't, and if you ever read the match thread you will see what a bunch of depressants are on there.

Yu read the thread and it sounds like we have not made a pass, then watch the game/highlights and we are pretty good. It really is comical.

'The idiot, Lyanco (example), he should never be allowed to wear the shirt again',

'He's stealing a living'

then 'YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS'

'Lyancoooooooooooooooo, make a statue of him'

No doubt Im exaggerating a tad but Im not far out lol

 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

25 minutes ago, austsaint said:

You can do better than that Nick.    You've had a lot to say on this topic, but not really presented a case for why Jones should stay except for the need for positive support for the Manager.     I'm no supporter of Ralph - he should have been shown the door long before he was; yet for a couple of seasons he set the team up with an energy, press, quick movement and passing which we will never see from Jones.    Jones has a better squad of players now than Ralph ever had, yet we see baffling formations, changed team selections and an incoherent style of play.

Like I said - if we stay up; it won't have a great deal to do with NJ.    How about you tell the forum what he's done to earn your support apart from a belief in positivity.

The next two games are key. Brentford not an easy place to get a result, but he needs to get something. Wolves is a must win game. No excuses on that front. If he loses both, surely his position would become untenable. 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

1 minute ago, OldNick said:

Your first post above you stated that if we stay up NJ will have nothing to do with him. That obviously is nonsense and so my reply was a brush off to the post.

I have little evidence to say how NJ will improve or his attributes. I have seen a short period some players showing a bit of improvement, including JWP looking like his former self. The players at this moment look to be buying in, but Im not there to say for sure.

My other reasons I am backing NJ

1. I doubt SR will sack him, as they have belief in their own choice. Hence if we support him, it makes his job easier and the team can have less pressure. I doubt they look forward to playing at SMS as the fans are not giving their full support and are looking to have a go

2. If the players are having problems changing to a new style, how will they change again to another.

3. I want to see the ball in the box a bit more, with JWP etc driving into the box aka Newcastle do. 

4. I'm tired of us being pushovers and want us learning the dark arts, make us nastier, and not being the club away teams love to play.

I believe that NJ will instil a lot of this, we are where we are and so i am standing in the NJ in camp. If he fails we fail, that is the crux of it. 

All of us on here think we know best, but frankly we don't, and if you ever read the match thread you will see what a bunch of depressants are on there.

Yu read the thread and it sounds like we have not made a pass, then watch the game/highlights and we are pretty good. It really is comical.

'The idiot, Lyanco (example), he should never be allowed to wear the shirt again',

'He's stealing a living'

then 'YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS'

'Lyancoooooooooooooooo, make a statue of him'

No doubt Im exaggerating a tad but Im not far out lol

 

But if results continue in the same vein, then surely SR will have little choice but to act? There is no way, absolutely no way that Jones will ever getting us playing like Newcastle. 

[OldNick]

Just now, Lee On Solent Saint said:

But if results continue in the same vein, then surely SR will have little choice but to act? There is no way, absolutely no way that Jones will ever getting us playing like Newcastle. 

If we lose the next 3-4 or 5 defo. I wouldnt be averse to change then, who to lord knows. Personally I dont think that will happen and this will calm down. Sadly, even if we win a few, there will always be those who will wait for us to lose 2 games and be back moaning that he is not good enough. He has hell of a jib turning those fans around.

I do hope he can at least get o lot back on board, we need it

[Lee On Solent Saint]

8 minutes ago, OldNick said:

If we lose the next 3-4 or 5 defo. I wouldnt be averse to change then, who to lord knows. Personally I dont think that will happen and this will calm down. Sadly, even if we win a few, there will always be those who will wait for us to lose 2 games and be back moaning that he is not good enough. He has hell of a jib turning those fans around.

I do hope he can at least get o lot back on board, we need it

Admire your positive outlook on this. To be honest,I think he has lost the majority of fans already. Not his fault really, SR should not have given him the job in the first place. 

[It's There]

Like many, I have reservations about NJ. However, he has now been given the tools and I hope we shall see goals scored BY us and points gained. As many have written, losing by one goal suggest we are in games. We all know we have lacked clinical finishers. Now we have several new options- so let's see what happens. Wins will breed confidence and the players will respond.

Obviously, it would help if we win against Brentford and I'd be delighted to see the new players involved, either from the start or from the bench.

I'd keep Adams in the team- goals breeds confidence and he's due a run of goals!

 

[CB Fry]

48 minutes ago, OldNick said:

If we lose the next 3-4 or 5 defo. I wouldnt be averse to change then, who to lord knows. Personally I dont think that will happen and this will calm down. Sadly, even if we win a few, there will always be those who will wait for us to lose 2 games and be back moaning that he is not good enough. He has hell of a jib turning those fans around.

I do hope he can at least get o lot back on board, we need it

He has lost 5 league games out of 6, from a bunch of games perfectly placed for a new manager bounce.

You're making out that the fans moaning is some unreasonable thing. He was recruited entirely to keep us up and we're worse off now than before he started.

Let's see if we can actually "win a few" in your "Sadly, some fans" scenario first, shall we, before you make up what you think people's reactions might be. 

Edited 2 February, 2023 by CB Fry

[Whitey Grandad]

23 minutes ago, OldNick said:

If we lose the next 3-4 or 5 defo. I wouldnt be averse to change then, who to lord knows. Personally I dont think that will happen and this will calm down. Sadly, even if we win a few, there will always be those who will wait for us to lose 2 games and be back moaning that he is not good enough. He has hell of a jib turning those fans around.

I do hope he can at least get o lot back on board, we need it

If we do that then we are almost certainly relegated.

[Billy the Kidd]

3 hours ago, egg said:

Who's being played out of position?

If you mean KWP, he is just as happy and just as good at left back. We need height in a back 4 to have any chance at defending set pieces. It's obvious why we play a CB at full back if we have an short full back on the other side. You've only got to watch Newcastle to see how it can work. 2 decent CB's, Tripper on the right side, and to give more defensive height, and Burn (a CB) at LB to give height. Man City often do it with Stones, Ake or Akanji. 

If you mean JWP, he's been played on arguably his best position after being played out of position is a DM for ages.

Who else do you mean? 

Agreed. 

Also, th post you quoted could literally have been written every 3 months for 4 years about Ralph. I cant believe the blindness to Ralph, one of the main things he did was play people out of position.

[Mr X]

Jones has clearly been backed now with the 5 new signings so he simply has to deliver. Problem is at the moment we don't seen to draw any Games under jones and have lost all bar one is that good enough? He should definitely be given more time but I'm not convinced even with the new signings he will play the right formation to get the best out of them... Other than playing JWP further forward he has t really implemented anything that's made any real impact and bednarek alongside lyanco is a simply a ticking time bomb a  recipe for disaster 

[OldNick]

38 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

He has lost 5 league games out of 6, from a bunch of games perfectly placed for a new manager bounce.

You're making out that the fans moaning is some unreasonable thing. He was recruited entirely to keep us up and we're worse off now than before he started.

Let's see if we can actually "win a few" in your "Sadly, some fans" scenario first, shall we, before you make up what you think people's reactions might be. 

We know what fans reaction will be. You are not that blinkered to not realise that. There is no doubt he has lost a lot of winnable games, and is not good enough, but when you have players missing absolutely gilt edged chances, it is pretty tough. I think the only game that really was poor, was the Forest defeat. 

Fans moaning is what this forum is classy at, me included. What I dont understand is how we binned him before he had a chance, how we have no faith in SR who have actually put their own money on the line, in their choice. I have been critical of SR in the past, especially earlier in the season, by the way. 

A poisonous atmosphere is only going to do one thing, we will lose more than we win, yes, it will achievewhat you want us sacking the manager but it wont keep us up

[OldNick]

46 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

If we do that then we are almost certainly relegated.

yes. 

[OldNick]

1 hour ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Admire your positive outlook on this. To be honest,I think he has lost the majority of fans already. Not his fault really, SR should not have given him the job in the first place. 

they should have sacked Ralph sooner, they should not of let Oriel leave, but it is done. I still think we only have 40% chance of staying up but not sureif we change who could do better

[Wade Garrett]

If he plays 5 at the back again, I would like 5 minutes in an empty room with him.

Seriously though, he has been massively backed by the owners.  Time to get behind the manager and see where it takes us.

[64saint]

1 hour ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

The next two games are key. 

Haven't we been saying that about every game since about October or maybe September even ? And we will probably be saying that right up to the end of season.

[CB Fry]

34 minutes ago, OldNick said:

We know what fans reaction will be. You are not that blinkered to not realise that. There is no doubt he has lost a lot of winnable games, and is not good enough, but when you have players missing absolutely gilt edged chances, it is pretty tough. I think the only game that really was poor, was the Forest defeat. 

Fans moaning is what this forum is classy at, me included. What I dont understand is how we binned him before he had a chance, how we have no faith in SR who have actually put their own money on the line, in their choice. I have been critical of SR in the past, especially earlier in the season, by the way. 

A poisonous atmosphere is only going to do one thing, we will lose more than we win, yes, it will achievewhat you want us sacking the manager but it wont keep us up

We won't get relegated because of a "poisonous atmosphere".

Just typical "blame the fans" rubbish.

[OldNick]

6 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

We won't get relegated because of a "poisonous atmosphere".

Just typical "blame the fans" rubbish.

It bleeding well wont help, of course it wont be down to that but will contribute 

[Saint Matty 76]

Interesting to see that we're holding a fans forum next week, and NJ isn't one of the people attending.

 

[wild-saint]

1 hour ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Admire your positive outlook on this. To be honest,I think he has lost the majority of fans already. Not his fault really, SR should not have given him the job in the first place. 

That's because SR are clearly supporting their manager (evidenced with the 60m layout on players this month) and will give him time now he has the type pf players he feels are needed.

Regardless of whether you agree with this decision or not the only way the fans can influence performance and ultimately whether we go down or stay up is by supporting the team and manager on match days.

You may be right in your opinion but its worthless in the short term  and only makes things more difficult. That's why I choose to support the team rather than constantly look for the negative in the managers performances.  Who know at the end of the season we might go down but even then i see the positives in the squad that we will be left with a strong competitive side to mount a challenge despite the likelihood of JWP, Lavia and KWP moving on. 

[benjii]

People are acting like he's been dumped in the shit.

He had the whole world cup to work with the squad, minus two centre backs.

He's got a squad with some proven Prem quality players and a core bunch of players who are no worse than other struggling teams - the one exception to that is probably at GK.

Then he's been backed massively in January. 

He's in a more privileged position than most Saints managers have ever been in, yet he's managed to piss off a vast swathe of the fan base in no time at all. He's terrible.

[a1ex2001]

1 minute ago, Saint Matty 76 said:

Interesting to see that we're holding a fans forum next week, and NJ isn't one of the people attending.

 

Would have taken some serious balls for him to attend, can you imagine the chorus of boo's when he quoted his latest win percentage!  The mans a bad joke and sadly despite his stay at the club being almost certainly being a short one it is likely to do significant damage!

[S-Clarke]

3 minutes ago, Saint Matty 76 said:

Interesting to see that we're holding a fans forum next week, and NJ isn't one of the people attending.

 

I think that's probably in the mind of protecting him and sheltering him from the obvious crap that will almost certainly get thrown his way. Given how defensive and spikey he is, I can imagine him squaring up to a fan if they dare say he plays shit football!

It's good to see another line of communication from this season though. The owners were conspicuous by their absence during the Summer one, so it's good that SR are part of this. A lack of communication has often been a criticism labelled at ownership groups, but they’ve started speaking a bit recently (as well as putting their money with their mouth is)

[FarehamSaintJames]

I actually feel for Ralph that he didn't get this striker and winger that he wanted and Jones did.

[Hodgey]

So yes people were underwhelmed and a fair few immediately suggested he won’t be good enough. Now to date they were spot on - his job is to keep us up / do better than Ralf. Factually he’s done neither - even with tailwinds of a full month with most of the squad and favourable fixtures. He’s now been further boosted by another 5 ‘first team ready’ players, including the height, power and pace he has gone on about. There can be no more excuses.

Should fans get behind him more in matches ? Of course, but that goes 2 ways, if Jones has any sense he needs to ensure we start fast and positively at home, the fans have had almost 2 years of utter tripe served up to them (inc under Jones) so patience is wafer thin, his sniping in post match is also completely unhelpful. 
Do I think he’ll keep us up ?, I think it’ll be close but just have a feeling we will fall short. That said the irony is I think we need to keep Jones if we go down, and replace him if we stay up - when we all know the reverse will happen.
 

[pimpin4rizeal]

6 hours ago, a1ex2001 said:

Close and competitive?  Have you been watching different games? Loosing by one goal doesn't mean the game was close we've hardly had a sniff in most of our defeats and even our cup victories against lower league dross have been unconvincing, Jones makes Mark Hughes look like a footballing genius and that takes some serious effort!

It does mean it’s close though. Actual score line is more important then whether you think we are playing some Barcelona football or if you think the other side had the better of the game.

we are usually losing matches after che missed a sitter.. and then some bazunu error at the other end.. don’t know what you expect nj to do about that. He can’t turn bazunu into Peter schmeichal and che into shearer suddenly..

we are in with a chance in most matches at least let’s see if the new additions can now do their jobs and turn these tight games into points 

[Toadhall Saint]

It’s really quite simple. Win games and NJ will be ok. Continue to lose and NJ will not.

[Osvaldorama]

3 minutes ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

It does mean it’s close though. Actual score line is more important then whether you think we are playing some Barcelona football or if you think the other side had the better of the game.

we are usually losing matches after che missed a sitter.. and then some bazunu error at the other end.. don’t know what you expect nj to do about that. He can’t turn bazunu into Peter schmeichal and che into shearer suddenly..

we are in with a chance in most matches at least let’s see if the new additions can now do their jobs and turn these tight games into points 

Unfortunately this is sheer fantasy. These excuses never came out for Ralph. The same team under Ralph beat Spurs, Chelsea etc. 
 

If you want to exonerate the manager in this way, we should never have sacked him. 
 

The truth is, we have been losing games because we lose the midfield battle… because he’s been picking the wrong team time and time again. Favouring the wrong players and making baffling decisions. 
 

Literally the only positive over Ralph so far is that he makes earlier substitutions, when Ralph was too stubborn. Problem is it’s too late as his initial 5 at the back with no DMs playing has already cost us. 

[sydney_saint]

I'd actually say our fans are generally pretty supportive of managers even if the appointment was unpopular initially. Look at how Strachan won the fanbase round despite an unpopular appointment, or Poch, or even Adkins (although it wasn't a huge amount against, some were definitely unsure). If you take the last 20 years or so, I can think of managers like Strachan, Burley, Koeman, Poch, Adkins, Ralph, Pearson, and even the likes of Pellegrino I felt most fans wanted to do well, but was so so clear how out of his depth he was. Even if some of those reigns ended up unpleasant, there were moments when the fanbase really rallied behind each of them. In fact, I can't think of too many that people haven't rallied around at some point. 

So what is NJ doing differently that so many people don't like him, cos we tend to rally behind managers. For a manager to be popular I feel they either need to

1. Deliver results quickly. Obviously. So far our league form pointswise has got worse. So no good there. 

2. If they don't hit the ground running, they need to show a clear blueprint of how they want to play. Poch and Ralph are probably two of the clearest examples of showing pretty much from their first game their blueprint. So far with Jones, the style of football seems very 'Championship'. Sliding into more tackles isn't going to win many more matches, and the fans know it.

3. Have a reputation. Will buy more time if they can point to similar success at the same level. Currently he has no reputation at EPL level either as a manager or a player.

4. If there is no results, and not a gameplan that resonates with the fans, at the very least the manager can buy himself more time by saying the right things. At the moment, he seems to want to pick fights with the fans.

People can say he's unfortunately, but he isn't really giving us any of these things. It's little wonder there is little goodwill. 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

45 minutes ago, wild-saint said:

That's because SR are clearly supporting their manager (evidenced with the 60m layout on players this month) and will give him time now he has the type pf players he feels are needed.

Regardless of whether you agree with this decision or not the only way the fans can influence performance and ultimately whether we go down or stay up is by supporting the team and manager on match days.

You may be right in your opinion but its worthless in the short term  and only makes things more difficult. That's why I choose to support the team rather than constantly look for the negative in the managers performances.  Who know at the end of the season we might go down but even then i see the positives in the squad that we will be left with a strong competitive side to mount a challenge despite the likelihood of JWP, Lavia and KWP moving on. 

There will be a fair few more leaving than those three should we go down. Its incredibly hard to support the team when the football you are watching is arguably just as tedious as when Ralph was in charge. Wasn't a huge fan of Ralph toward the end of his tenure, but I do feel he has a right to question why he wasn't supported with the striking buys that Jones has had.

[The Left Back]

Harking back to the late 80s and 90s, there came a moment in most seasons where the mood changed from moaning about why we are in the shit to getting fully on board with the reality and uniting behind a passion to help get us out.  It was hard to identify when that moment was at the time without the benefit of hindsight.  Probably the most famous one was Ruddock's penalty against Newcastle in 89.  The concept of the great escape seemed a regular feature of the 90s but how did it start each session?  When was the liminal moment? What was the catalyst?

I was hoping it was the Man City/Everton wins, but it feels like we are now back where we were before then. Perhaps it won't happen, we'll moan our way down to the championship.  I'm hoping there comes a moment when something happens and we all can click into 'great escape' mode.  It may not be enough to save us it but at least we could say tried.  

The question we seem to be debating on here is whether it's the fans jobs to do this or the team/manager's.  I don't think it works like that.  It's a sort of symbiotic thing, but it probably does need some of the toxicity to recede to allow it to be a possibility.

Right now too many people seem to be moaning, primarily about the manger, secondly about some of the players and thirdly about the ownership of the club.  On the one hand fans feel justified in raising legitimate criticism, on the other what purpose does that actually serve?  If we complain we are non-supporting bed wetters, if we don't we are deluded happy clappers.  

I've posted on this thread because I think some believe we need to get rid of Jones to survive.  Perhaps that's right and replacing him would provide that liminal moment.  But I just don't think it's going to happen.  In which case, as a supporter, I'm for setting that aside for now and putting my energy into supporting more than critiquing (in the ground, in front of the telly and on this forum).  Those who think we are doomed if we stick with him have every right to say so, and I don't blame them.  But I think it lessens our ability to galvanise support for survival.

 

[Mr X]

I guess it can all be summed up by what do you think Jones is good at? 

And how long that list of good things is, is it a long list or a very short one? 🤔

[BotleySaint]

55 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

It’s really quite simple. Win games and NJ will be ok. Continue to lose and NJ will not.

Win games and NJ will be ok and we'll stay up. Continue to lose and NJ will not be ok and we'll go down.
So, if we lose the Brentford is that his time up then? Or do we keep waiting till the next league defeat?

I actually hope we beat Brentford... even if it means he stays. Just want us to stay up.

[Weston Super Saint]

11 minutes ago, Mr X said:

I guess it can all be summed up by what do you think Jones is good at? 

And how long that list of good things is, is it a long list or a very short one? 🤔

Is the answer the short one, like him?

[Roo1976]

I think as fans we believe we can pick or see things differently to what the manager witnesses at nearly or all the training sessions.I think what we as fans get upset over is the fact we seem to be unable to commit to the starting formation before we seem rapidly over run in the midfield ,followed by headless chicken type not knowing how to be the system were supposed to play, verses the formation we as fans would like to see us play.My humble fan formation would be 4_4_2.    

 

                        Bazunu      

KWP.......DCC.....         Salisu.....Perraud.

JWP....Lavia....          Alcaraz.....Djenepo.

    Adams.......               Armstrong.......

Subs Bednarek,Bree,Diallo,Edozie,Osric,Suleman,Onuachu.           The latter being used as a sub due to playing time with squad.

[CB Fry]

2 hours ago, OldNick said:

It bleeding well wont help, of course it wont be down to that but will contribute 

No it won't contribute.

If we win matches because of good team selection, tactics, motivation, endeavour, effort then there won't be a poisonous atmosphere.

If we keep losing in the league then the atmosphere won't be great. 

But just be clear on which way round this works.

Edited 2 February, 2023 by CB Fry

[rooney]

2 hours ago, Saint Matty 76 said:

Interesting to see that we're holding a fans forum next week, and NJ isn't one of the people attending.

 

No indication if it is to be broadcast live though.

[OldNick]

1 hour ago, CB Fry said:

No it won't contribute.

If we win matches because of good team selection, tactics, motivation, endeavour, effort then there won't be a poisonous atmosphere.

If we keep losing in the league then the atmosphere won't be great. 

But just be clear on which way round this works.

well it worked from the first moment he walked in the door, so it is not the normal way of things. 

[pimpin4rizeal]

2 hours ago, Osvaldorama said:

Unfortunately this is sheer fantasy. These excuses never came out for Ralph. The same team under Ralph beat Spurs, Chelsea etc. 
 

If you want to exonerate the manager in this way, we should never have sacked him. 
 

The truth is, we have been losing games because we lose the midfield battle… because he’s been picking the wrong team time and time again. Favouring the wrong players and making baffling decisions. 
 

Literally the only positive over Ralph so far is that he makes earlier substitutions, when Ralph was too stubborn. Problem is it’s too late as his initial 5 at the back with no DMs playing has already cost us. 

I think Ralph had more then his fair share of excuses. He had four years or whatever to shape his own side. And let’s be honest by the time he left we had gone backwards 

excuse after excuse for him even losing 9-0 and taking absolute maulings the fanbase still stuck with him. Our form under him was terrible for nearly two years running.. but he’ was the one who shaped the squad into what it is now, he built a squad full of players caring only for off the ball movement and workrate, he ditched off players like gabbi and boufal etc etc in favour of workhorses like long elyounoussi  redmond etc.. by the time he left we now have zero composure or creativity in the team that he built .. he had four years of excuses whilst jones gets shit from his second game in charge.

point is jones hasn’t had four years to shape the team like Ralph did but he’s expected to just snap his fingers and change the complete bunch of crap he’s been saddled with.. 

also I’m not sure how you can suggest jones is losing the midfield battle more then Ralph did as we now are playing three in the middle instead of the two Ralph did.

 

Edited 2 February, 2023 by pimpin4rizeal

[Mr Nimbus]

1 minute ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

I think Ralph had more then his fair share of excuses. He had four years or whatever to shape his own side. And let’s be honest by the time he left we had gone backwards 

excuse after excuse for him even losing 9-0 and taking absolute maulings the fanbase still stuck with him. Our form under him was terrible for nearly two years running.. but he’ was the one who shaped the squad into what it is now, he built a squad full of players caring only for off the ball movement and workrate, he ditched off players like gabbi and boufal etc etc in favour of workhorses like long elyounoussi gabbi redmond etc.. by the time he left we now have zero composure or creativity in the team that he built .. he had four years of excuses whilst jones gets shit from his second game in charge.

point is jones hasn’t had four years to shape the team like Ralph did but he’s expected to just snap his fingers and change the complete bunch of crap he’s been saddled with.. 

also I’m not sure how you can suggest jones is losing the midfield battle more then Ralph did as we now are playing three in the middle instead of the two Ralph did.

 

We consistently lose the battle in midfield. We did against Brighton, Villa and in both games against Newcastle. 

[Saint Keef]

3 hours ago, Saint Matty 76 said:

Interesting to see that we're holding a fans forum next week, and NJ isn't one of the people attending.

 

Maybe......just maybe, he won't be around by then???? A shocking performance/result at Brentford and who knows? In saying that, nothing would give me greater pleasure than a Saints win there.

[CB Fry]

17 minutes ago, OldNick said:

well it worked from the first moment he walked in the door, so it is not the normal way of things. 

Sorry, it is normal.

The club decided to go left field and recruit someone the entire fan base would not have picked, that guy has got an uphill struggle from day one. Not entirely his fault but he should have known he was not going to get a grace period. Pochettino came in to a similar, maybe more toxic situation. 

If the club had recruited an exciting name - as we did with Koeman and Hasenhuttl - then the fanbase naturally more patient because there's a level of confidence that this guy should come good.

The main difference is all those managerial appointments starting working very very quickly and could build momentum.

What you seem to want is the fanbase to hero worship a bloke who has rocked up from Stoke like he's some Alan Ball type saviour and then when he makes a dreadful start, still treat him like some kind of hero.

He needed to win fans over, like Pochettino did. He hasn't, yet, and he has a hell of a job to do. But that's on him. Not us.

 

Edited 2 February, 2023 by CB Fry