Nathan Jones

[Miltonaggro]

19 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

With the greatest of respect this is a 50 page thread solely aimed at ridiculing and destroying one man. It's just a minor part of a narrative that consistently undermines and aims to remove him from his job that includes but is not limited to booing and chanting directly at the man. It was started just after the guys first proper game in charge.

I think I can understand why the man in question is a bit chippy and thinks fans might be against him a little bit. 

I think if Nat can tone it down a little he’ll be fine, he might even achieve a cult following, our own less empathetic version of the Wealdstone Raider, perhaps. 

[hypochondriac]

19 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

With the greatest of respect this is a 50 page thread solely aimed at ridiculing and destroying one man. It's just a minor part of a narrative that consistently undermines and aims to remove him from his job that includes but is not limited to booing and chanting directly at the man. It was started just after the guys first proper game in charge.

I think I can understand why the man in question is a bit chippy and thinks fans might be against him a little bit. 

Personally I think strength of character and a desire to win the fans round would be a much better response than being passive aggressive and nakedly angry. 

[Fabrice29]

41 minutes ago, egg said:

That's a bit harsh imo. On the whole he was good an Saturday. Cool as a cornetto on the ball, and mostly used it well. There goal was a mess and although he got beaten far too easily, others were more at fault imo. 

I don’t disagree that he was good Saturday and he’s clearly a class act. I just find the notion he’s the difference between us being good and bad a strange one. 

[Sheaf Saint]

Well I've been biding my time very carefully before offering any really strong opinion of Jones (apart from the very understandable knee-jerk reaction after that Forest performance), and I was all in favour of giving him a chance to prove himself worthy, but I have to say my patience is wearing very thin now.

Feels like that wonder-week was a long time ago now. And when you look at it, the performance against City was obviously just a freak that we're not going to see repeated anytime soon. Before that we scraped past Palace thanks to two howlers from Guaita, and afterwards we were lucky to come up against an Everton team who are seemingly imploding even more than we are. 

Since then it has been normal service resumed. We had a short spell during the Villa game where we looked like we might get a goal, but then reverted to type and conceded against the run of play due again to pathetic marking and discipline from a set-piece. That's on the coaching team I'm afraid.

Newcastle in the first leg last week was predictably dire, and then against Blackpool - a team struggling in the lower half of the Championship - we relied on two goals from a LB to get a lead and then tried our best to chuck it away with a horrendously dis-organised and panicked last half an hour.

When we appointed him, I opined that just because he hasn't proven himself in a top league yet, doesn't mean that he doesn't have it in him to do so if given the opportunity. Well now he has been given the opportunity and everything about his whole persona screams 'lower league manager with a chip on his shoulder'.

I am still of the opinion that one day he may well go on to become a moderately successful PL manager, but right now we do not have the luxury of affording him that time to learn his trade. What we needed when we sacked Ralph was for an experienced manager with decent top league pedigree who would make an instant improvement to our performances, and what we've got is the complete opposite of that.

If ever someone like Jones would have been a good appointment for us, it would be after we've been relegated and he would come in to build a promotion-winning team in the Championship. From there he would have some momentum to carry forward into the PL with the squad that he coached to get there. That could work. 

I am now completely resigned to the fact that we are going to be relegated this season. I just don't see any encouraging signs that we are going to improve enough to get the points we need to stay up now. Yes you can point the finger at our horrific lack of quality up front. But, as Puel worked out, if your forwards aren't doing the business then make sure your defenders are and make yourself hard to beat. We're not hard to beat, despite Jones' protestations otherwise. 7 defeats in our last 8 in the league and no clean sheets - mostly against bottom half teams - shows we are actually very easy to beat. That's on the manager.

[Mr X]

57 minutes ago, egg said:

He's just overseen the smashing of Blackpool 2-1, at home, and you want more!? On a serious note, if we gave the bloke a striker who can finish, a bit of height at LB and/or RB, and a left winger he has faith in, I reckon he'll do well. 

Smashing that's a first to describe a win by one goal 😂

[once_bitterne]

On 27/01/2023 at 19:43, Ted Bates Statue said:

I agree with your overall point, although it would take some doing to be as bad as we were in 2005 when we only won 6 games all season, even with a vastly superior attack. We are currently on 4 wins with half the season gone and I would be surprised if we only got two more wins.

The trouble is that we need about 10 wins in total, plus a few draws and we struggle to get either. 

6 wins but we got 14 draws that season to leave us with 32 points and I'd be shocked if we got near that this season.

[Mr X]

13 minutes ago, once_bitterne said:

6 wins but we got 14 draws that season to leave us with 32 points and I'd be shocked if we got near that this season.

So basically we are screwed and heading for the championship? 

[Killers Knee]

1 minute ago, Mr X said:

So basically we are screwed and heading for the championship? 

If we don't get a prolific striker in the next 24hrs, the season is over. 

[OldNick]

48 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Personally I think strength of character and a desire to win the fans round would be a much better response than being passive aggressive and nakedly angry. 

it is going to be impossible to bring the majority of fans across (on social media anyway) as they are determined that he is not good enough. Sadly we do have a bunch of entitled fans on here

[Lee On Solent Saint]

1 minute ago, OldNick said:

it is going to be impossible to bring the majority of fans across (on social media anyway) as they are determined that he is not good enough. Sadly we do have a bunch of entitled fans on here

Do you think he is good enough? I don't consider having a competent manager as being entitled. 

[Fan The Flames]

3 minutes ago, OldNick said:

it is going to be impossible to bring the majority of fans across (on social media anyway) as they are determined that he is not good enough. Sadly we do have a bunch of entitled fans on here

What's entitled about it.

What we do have is a lot of fans telling other fans how to be a better fan.

[hypochondriac]

11 minutes ago, OldNick said:

it is going to be impossible to bring the majority of fans across (on social media anyway) as they are determined that he is not good enough. Sadly we do have a bunch of entitled fans on here

If he does well enough and keeps us up then I would expect most fans would be on board. 

[AlexLaw76]

14 minutes ago, OldNick said:

it is going to be impossible to bring the majority of fans across (on social media anyway) as they are determined that he is not good enough. Sadly we do have a bunch of entitled fans on here

entitled about what?

[OldNick]

8 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Do you think he is good enough? I don't consider having a competent manager as being entitled. 

I dont know if he is good enough, but he is who has been selected by the club and so I support him. Personally I think for a club of our size he may turn up into a team that other clubs dont want to come up against. I'm tired of seeing a side that get bullied and wont say boo to a goose. Other clubs do the nasty things, we seem to be so needy wanting us to be liked by other teams fans that we have forgotten it is a dog eat dog world. 

Have we become so numb to recycling football, that we are happy to play tippy tappy stuff without the quality to do it

Before he was appointed in the main we all thought we were down, at this moment in time I think we have a 40% chance of staying up, a couple of wins in the next month and we may have a 60% chance etc etc

[OldNick]

3 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

entitled about what?

Entitled to believe we are some kind of footballing superpower and a draw to top managers. We cant attract a frigging unknown player from some European league

[badgerx16]

21 hours ago, Turkish said:

Sadly that’s going to be impossible now. The best he can do is 90.9%. Still I’d take that. 

I might ask if you are always so pedantic, but that would be petty. 🙂

[AlexLaw76]

4 minutes ago, OldNick said:

Entitled to believe we are some kind of footballing superpower and a draw to top managers. We cant attract a frigging unknown player from some European league

who suggests we are some kind of super power?

last time we were in this position, we hired a manager who recently finished 2nd in Germany and regarded as above our level.....

[Saint Garrett]

Just now, AlexLaw76 said:

who suggests we are some kind of super power?

last time we were in this position, we hired a manager who recently finished 2nd in Germany and regarded as above our level.....

Yup - we are a club that, in recent years, has been able to appoint Pochettino, Koeman and Hasenhuttl. Regardless of the risk, we would still have been a decent option in November. We weren't bottom until Jones took charge. 

[Saintscummer]

27 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

who suggests we are some kind of super power?

last time we were in this position, we hired a manager who recently finished 2nd in Germany and regarded as above our level.....

And look how that ended. Nothing is guaranteed.
 

Everton hired A list managers and look where they are. 
 

I just wish we would give the guy a chance 

[AlexLaw76]

2 minutes ago, Saintscummer said:

And look how that ended. Nothing is guaranteed.
 

Everton hired A list managers and look where they are. 
 

I just wish we would give the guy a chance 

Ended? He stayed too long, but generally, he was a success and was brilliant when he first came in, with the likes of Charlie Austin up top

[S-Clarke]

16 minutes ago, Saintscummer said:

And look how that ended. Nothing is guaranteed.
 

Everton hired A list managers and look where they are. 
 

I just wish we would give the guy a chance 

Ralph was a success for us, anyone suggesting otherwise is not telling the truth. He was a forward-thinking appointment at the time and somewhat of a coup, he galvanised the club when he first came in and the results took an uplift.

The total opposite has happened with Jones. A club already on a downward trajectory needed a lift, but they hired a manager which hasn’t just split the fanbase it’s brought it together in a single view.

Things with Ralph became stale when we couldn't invest in the team, ironically the summer we did we have managed to have a shit show – but I still say that the lack of investment in a striker killed us. In the time Ralph was here we were never embroiled in a relegation battle. We may have been on the periphery from time to time, but we were pretty much like Palace - just floating around in mid-table.

Edited 30 January, 2023 by S-Clarke

[once_bitterne]

2 hours ago, Mr X said:

So basically we are screwed and heading for the championship? 

Of course.  Does anyone think we're not?

We started the Summer with the weakest squad we have ever had since our PL return, signed a load of players who could never contribute anything meaningful in their first season an then appointed a manager hopelessly out of his depth.

We seem to be getting around 30% possession even at home in the PL and Blackpool managed more shots on goal than us on Saturday.

[Saint Fan CaM]

1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

Ralph was a success for us, anyone suggesting otherwise is not telling the truth. He was a forward-thinking appointment at the time and somewhat of a coup, he galvanised the club when he first came in and the results took an uplift.

The total opposite has happened with Jones. A club already on a downward trajectory needed a lift, but they hired a manager which hasn’t just split the fanbase it’s brought it together in a single view.

Things with Ralph became stale when we couldn't invest in the team, ironically the summer we did we have managed to have a shit show – but I still say that the lack of investment in a striker killed us. In the time Ralph was here we were never embroiled in a relegation battle. We may have been on the periphery from time to time, but we were pretty much like Palace - just floating around in mid-table.

Ralph was not a particular success in the sense his football was awful for a long time, he lost lots games including an unprecedented number at home and he presided over some terribly negative ‘records’ such as the 9-0 losses. Admittedly he needed to be backed with a better striker, but that’s easy to identify in hindsight.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, Saintscummer said:

And look how that ended. Nothing is guaranteed.
 

Everton hired A list managers and look where they are. 
 

I just wish we would give the guy a chance 

He's had a chance. What has he made of it?

[aintforever]

1 minute ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Ralph was not a particular success in the sense his football was awful for a long time, he lost lots games including an unprecedented number at home and he presided over some terribly negative ‘records’ such as the 9-0 losses. Admittedly he needed to be backed with a better striker, but that’s easy to identify in hindsight.

We were never seriously threatened by relegation under Ralph, we all said in the summer we needed a goalscorer.

[sydney_saint]

39 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Ralph was a success for us, anyone suggesting otherwise is not telling the truth. He was a forward-thinking appointment at the time and somewhat of a coup, he galvanised the club when he first came in and the results took an uplift.

The total opposite has happened with Jones. A club already on a downward trajectory needed a lift, but they hired a manager which hasn’t just split the fanbase it’s brought it together in a single view.

Things with Ralph became stale when we couldn't invest in the team, ironically the summer we did we have managed to have a shit show – but I still say that the lack of investment in a striker killed us. In the time Ralph was here we were never embroiled in a relegation battle. We may have been on the periphery from time to time, but we were pretty much like Palace - just floating around in mid-table.

It's probably too early for some fans, but most will be looking back in a few years time and realise the decent job he did here. The squad of players he had at his disposable was below par, yet kept us safe for years. Unlike previous managers here, he didn't have a top quality centre back like Lovren, Alderweireld, or VVD. Instead he had to work with the likes of Bednarek, Stephens and Vestergaard. Some say 'oh but he had Ings to bail him out'. Well if you look at Ings career both before he joined and after he joined, his best seasons were comfortably here. Villa didn't seem too fussed letting him go this month and it's not like they are world beaters. Surely Ralph gets credit for getting the most out of him? 

I would like to have seen what he could have done with the mid season break. He was obviously jaded and worn out when he got the sack. But then is that unexpected? There was less of a break this season due to the world cup, and lots of managers have come back looking fucked. Take a look at most of the managers that have been managing in the EPL for longer. Rodgers, Klopp, Moyes, even Pep if he didn't have the freak up front. It's probably no wonder teams have been so inconsistent and so many have been sacked. They barely would have had a second off before they needed to start prepping for the new season in what is already a really intense environment. I know for Ralph it pre-dates the summer, but I do feel that had he had a bit more time to freshen up, such as the mid-season break, that he could have found his mojo again. Certainly it wouldn't have gone any worse in the league since.

[sydney_saint]

5 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Ralph was not a particular success in the sense his football was awful for a long time, he lost lots games including an unprecedented number at home and he presided over some terribly negative ‘records’ such as the 9-0 losses. Admittedly he needed to be backed with a better striker, but that’s easy to identify in hindsight.

If you are gonna have a dig, at least don't lie. Our home form after Ralph was fine.

Last season we were 12th at home and the season before that we were 10th. The season before that was dreadful, but we also had amazing away form. It's a bit of a stretch to use home form from 3 seasons ago. 

[Saint Fan CaM]

2 minutes ago, sydney_saint said:

If you are gonna have a dig, at least don't lie. Our home form after Ralph was fine.

Last season we were 12th at home and the season before that we were 10th. The season before that was dreadful, but we also had amazing away form. It's a bit of a stretch to use home form from 3 seasons ago. 

I’m not sure where that came from - I can tell you as a paid up ST holder, I became very disappointed with the turgid football and terrible results, so much so that there was little reason to renew this season. I wanted Ralph to be a success - liked the chap - but a success he was not and ultimately left us at the foot of table.

[Saint Garrett]

5 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

I’m not sure where that came from - I can tell you as a paid up ST holder, I became very disappointed with the turgid football and terrible results, so much so that there was little reason to renew this season. I wanted Ralph to be a success - liked the chap - but a success he was not and ultimately left us at the foot of table.

I think you're being incredibly harsh...

Personally I think he was a great success here. You look at the shitshow he inherited after Pellegrino and Hughes, and he did a fantastic job. He galvanised a lost fan base and created a real bond in the club.  Ultimately, for whatever reason, it went stale at the end, but that's the same with most managers. Personally, If I look at the bigger picture, I don't think he could have done much more with the resources he had.  Yes he had a few shockers, and they were unacceptable, but he created a very brave side who defensively was a bit all over the place, but normally recovered from it.

He was let down by the board this summer, and I think we would have been fine if we'd signed a striker in the summer. I'd love to know how many of the players signed in the summer were his choice. (none probably). I also wonder how much influence the board had on him this summer, regarding systems etc.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

28 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

He's had a chance. What has he made of it?

I fully believe a more competent and able manager would get as out of this shit. Yes, the players are limited, but with a decent game plan and a more cohesive pattern to our play, we would be ok. 

[sydney_saint]

19 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

I’m not sure where that came from - I can tell you as a paid up ST holder, I became very disappointed with the turgid football and terrible results, so much so that there was little reason to renew this season. I wanted Ralph to be a success - liked the chap - but a success he was not and ultimately left us at the foot of table.

Out of interest, what would success have looked like to you? Bear in mind our budget and squad so obviously european qualification was never the target (to aspire to of course, but would have been a ridiculous achievement rather than standard success). Our home form as mentioned last season was fine, and the number of goals we scored wasn't spectacular, but not terrible either. We still scored more goals at home then the likes of Brentford, Brighton, Leeds and Wolves. 

[saintant]

3 hours ago, OldNick said:

it is going to be impossible to bring the majority of fans across (on social media anyway) as they are determined that he is not good enough. Sadly we do have a bunch of entitled fans on here

We don't. If anything our fans are too accepting of the shit going on. 

[cloggy saint]

14 minutes ago, saintant said:

We don't. If anything our fans are too accepting of the shit going on. 

I know this place represents only a tiny proportion of our fan base, but have you read the previous 50 pages?

[Fan The Flames]

11 minutes ago, cloggy saint said:

I know this place represents only a tiny proportion of our fan base, but have you read the previous 50 pages?

We have been drifting since Katherine Liebherr decided to not fund the club anymore, then the underfunded Gao years and now the cock up SR reign.

People are only moaning on a message board, they are not demonstrating or anything.

[wild-saint]

1 hour ago, Saint Garrett said:

I think you're being incredibly harsh...

Personally I think he was a great success here. You look at the shitshow he inherited after Pellegrino and Hughes, and he did a fantastic job. He galvanised a lost fan base and created a real bond in the club.  Ultimately, for whatever reason, it went stale at the end, but that's the same with most managers. Personally, If I look at the bigger picture, I don't think he could have done much more with the resources he had.  Yes he had a few shockers, and they were unacceptable, but he created a very brave side who defensively was a bit all over the place, but normally recovered from it.

He was let down by the board this summer, and I think we would have been fine if we'd signed a striker in the summer. I'd love to know how many of the players signed in the summer were his choice. (none probably). I also wonder how much influence the board had on him this summer, regarding systems etc.

harsh is judging someone after circa 6 games with a squad lacking any sort of competent striker coming off the back of he worst record in the football league over the previous calendar year . Harsh is not judging  a manager after a horrendous run resulting in the worst record in the football league over the previous calendar year. just my opinion of course but probable why im prepared to give the guy a fair crack of the whip even if it means going down. 

 

 

[Saint Fan CaM]

1 hour ago, sydney_saint said:

Out of interest, what would success have looked like to you? Bear in mind our budget and squad so obviously european qualification was never the target (to aspire to of course, but would have been a ridiculous achievement rather than standard success). Our home form as mentioned last season was fine, and the number of goals we scored wasn't spectacular, but not terrible either. We still scored more goals at home then the likes of Brentford, Brighton, Leeds and Wolves. 

I would have liked to see more dynamic play - less backwards/sideways passing - and more goals.  I would like to go to a game of football at home thinking, "we've got a chance of winning" today.  If Ralph's results were that great then why are we where we are?  Jones has not made things better admittedly, but that's no reason to swing back and suddenly declare Ralph to be successful because he wasn't.

[SotonianWill]

so we lost the race to ginger gravy tits

[sydney_saint]

4 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

I would have liked to see more dynamic play - less backwards/sideways passing - and more goals.  I would like to go to a game of football at home thinking, "we've got a chance of winning" today.  If Ralph's results were that great then why are we where we are?  Jones has not made things better admittedly, but that's no reason to swing back and suddenly declare Ralph to be successful because he wasn't.

So it's odd then that you are calling his tenure a failure, as we had all of that throughout most of it. During his time here he beat Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs, Chelsea and City all at home in the league, so if you are going into all the games thinking we don't have a chance of winning, that's more on you. We also played for good chunks a dynamic style of football. Scroll through most clubs message boards and you will see everyone complaining about backwards/sideways passing. That's alot of modern football. Defences are set up much better. Yes the last 6 months have been shit, but to call his time here a failure is baffling by your own criteria.  

There are so many reasons we are at the bottom, and alot of it stems from the top. Signing a 20 year old keeper who has never played above League One to marshal our young defence. Having zero depth in a key position in cdm and the only person who can play there is 18. Not signing a striker when its been clear for a long time that Armstrong and Adams are never going to score enough goals. Thinking that Man City's academy is good enough to keep us afloat just because we hired a guy from there to do our recruitment. Underfunding our squad for many seasons whilst those around us spent. Thinking our manager will keep overperforming with a terrible squad whilst he becomes jaded and exhausted from the lack of support. That's not to say he was faultless, he made many mistakes. But by keeping us up every season comfortably, he was overachieving with that squad. 

I've mentioned on another thread, but I would happily have replaced Ralph if we had got in a clear calibre manager. The likes of Emery, Lopetegui, Bielsa, Bosz, Benitez. Happily have done so. But I don't think any of them were realistic, and maybe the Board thought that as well which is why they didn't even try to get one. Failing getting a manager of calibre, I believe our best bet of staying up was to give Ralph some time off during the World Cup to see whether he could find his mojo again. A rejuvenated and happy Ralph is a far superior manager to Jones and many out there. He's not the very best, but he is good enough to keep us up as proven by keeping us up in every other season.

[Saint Fan CaM]

42 minutes ago, sydney_saint said:

So it's odd then that you are calling his tenure a failure, as we had all of that throughout most of it. During his time here he beat Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs, Chelsea and City all at home in the league, so if you are going into all the games thinking we don't have a chance of winning, that's more on you. We also played for good chunks a dynamic style of football. Scroll through most clubs message boards and you will see everyone complaining about backwards/sideways passing. That's alot of modern football. Defences are set up much better. Yes the last 6 months have been shit, but to call his time here a failure is baffling by your own criteria.  

There are so many reasons we are at the bottom, and alot of it stems from the top. Signing a 20 year old keeper who has never played above League One to marshal our young defence. Having zero depth in a key position in cdm and the only person who can play there is 18. Not signing a striker when its been clear for a long time that Armstrong and Adams are never going to score enough goals. Thinking that Man City's academy is good enough to keep us afloat just because we hired a guy from there to do our recruitment. Underfunding our squad for many seasons whilst those around us spent. Thinking our manager will keep overperforming with a terrible squad whilst he becomes jaded and exhausted from the lack of support. That's not to say he was faultless, he made many mistakes. But by keeping us up every season comfortably, he was overachieving with that squad. 

I've mentioned on another thread, but I would happily have replaced Ralph if we had got in a clear calibre manager. The likes of Emery, Lopetegui, Bielsa, Bosz, Benitez. Happily have done so. But I don't think any of them were realistic, and maybe the Board thought that as well which is why they didn't even try to get one. Failing getting a manager of calibre, I believe our best bet of staying up was to give Ralph some time off during the World Cup to see whether he could find his mojo again. A rejuvenated and happy Ralph is a far superior manager to Jones and many out there. He's not the very best, but he is good enough to keep us up as proven by keeping us up in every other season.

As I said, I liked Ralph and I agree he is a superior Manager than Jones, but that doesn't remove the fact that his time had run it's course which is why he was sacked.

[Green]

47 minutes ago, sydney_saint said:

I believe our best bet of staying up was to give Ralph some time off during the World Cup to see whether he could find his mojo again. A rejuvenated and happy Ralph is a far superior manager to Jones and many out there. He's not the very best, but he is good enough to keep us up as proven by keeping us up in every other season.

Given how much improved we were returning after the 2020 lockdown this would have been a much better bet - giving Ralph the equivalent time to work with the squad - than hiring the Luton Town manager.

We returned after the World Cup break playing worse than before, I struggle to believe that would have happened if we'd kept the same manager.

Alternatively, we could have aimed our sights a bit higher or employed someone who fits the model of the club, the most confusing part for me is not necessarily why we sacked Ralph but why we appointed Nathan Jones. 

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

I would have liked to see more dynamic play - less backwards/sideways passing - and more goals.  I would like to go to a game of football at home thinking, "we've got a chance of winning" today.  If Ralph's results were that great then why are we where we are?  Jones has not made things better admittedly, but that's no reason to swing back and suddenly declare Ralph to be successful because he wasn't.

Up until that West Ham Cup game it used to be like that. We had stumbled upon a way of playing that was energetic and effective. Perhaps winning that game was a curse in disguise.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

41 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

As I said, I liked Ralph and I agree he is a superior Manager than Jones, but that doesn't remove the fact that his time had run it's course which is why he was sacked.

Don't think many would argue that a change was needed. Only trouble is we downgraded giving Jones the job. 

[OldNick]

1 hour ago, sydney_saint said:

So it's odd then that you are calling his tenure a failure, as we had all of that throughout most of it. During his time here he beat Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs, Chelsea and City all at home in the league, so if you are going into all the games thinking we don't have a chance of winning, that's more on you. We also played for good chunks a dynamic style of football. Scroll through most clubs message boards and you will see everyone complaining about backwards/sideways passing. That's alot of modern football. Defences are set up much better. Yes the last 6 months have been shit, but to call his time here a failure is baffling by your own criteria.  

There are so many reasons we are at the bottom, and alot of it stems from the top. Signing a 20 year old keeper who has never played above League One to marshal our young defence. Having zero depth in a key position in cdm and the only person who can play there is 18. Not signing a striker when its been clear for a long time that Armstrong and Adams are never going to score enough goals. Thinking that Man City's academy is good enough to keep us afloat just because we hired a guy from there to do our recruitment. Underfunding our squad for many seasons whilst those around us spent. Thinking our manager will keep overperforming with a terrible squad whilst he becomes jaded and exhausted from the lack of support. That's not to say he was faultless, he made many mistakes. But by keeping us up every season comfortably, he was overachieving with that squad. 

I've mentioned on another thread, but I would happily have replaced Ralph if we had got in a clear calibre manager. The likes of Emery, Lopetegui, Bielsa, Bosz, Benitez. Happily have done so. But I don't think any of them were realistic, and maybe the Board thought that as well which is why they didn't even try to get one. Failing getting a manager of calibre, I believe our best bet of staying up was to give Ralph some time off during the World Cup to see whether he could find his mojo again. A rejuvenated and happy Ralph is a far superior manager to Jones and many out there. He's not the very best, but he is good enough to keep us up as proven by keeping us up in every other season.

He got a lot of slack. If Jones loses a game by 4 he will be seen as a goner, Ralph oversaw 2 of the most awful results i the clubs history, add to that the tepid and pathetic cup semi final performance plus countless ones this season. He has become the saviour in some peoples eyes but imo he was limited/adequat and him falling to his knees crying when he beat Liverpool lost it to me, and I suspect a lot of players

[OldNick]

2 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Don't think many would argue that a change was needed. Only trouble is we downgraded giving Jones the job. 

In your humble opinion, of course. Is NJ the recent version of Adkins

[nta786]

I'll predict that Sean Dyche will give more of a manager bounce for Everton than NJ managed for us.

 

[Killers Knee]

1 hour ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Don't think many would argue that a change was needed. Only trouble is we downgraded giving Jones the job. 

Why did we go full retard?  You never go full retard!

 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

1 hour ago, OldNick said:

In your humble opinion, of course. Is NJ the recent version of Adkins

Not really. Adkins was very likeable. Jones isn't. At least under Adkins we played as a team and looked like a cohesive unit. Performances under Jones look disjointed with no pattern. Everyone was on the bus with Nigel. He was a  limited manager, but no way would he come up with the shit that Jones spouts, particularly about the fans.

[LGTL]

1 hour ago, OldNick said:

In your humble opinion, of course. Is NJ the recent version of Adkins

😂😂 they couldn’t be more different!

[sydney_saint]

1 hour ago, OldNick said:

He got a lot of slack. If Jones loses a game by 4 he will be seen as a goner, Ralph oversaw 2 of the most awful results i the clubs history, add to that the tepid and pathetic cup semi final performance plus countless ones this season. He has become the saviour in some peoples eyes but imo he was limited/adequat and him falling to his knees crying when he beat Liverpool lost it to me, and I suspect a lot of players

So as we beat the defending champions, taking us up to 7th in the league in January, with a first team containing the likes of Stephens, Diallo, Djenepo and Walcott, that the thing that went through your mind was 'he's lost me'? 

I genuinely just feel a little sad for you in all honesty. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

7 minutes ago, sydney_saint said:

So as we beat the defending champions, taking us up to 7th in the league in January, with a first team containing the likes of Stephens, Diallo, Djenepo and Walcott, that the thing that went through your mind was 'he's lost me'? 

Everyone was beating them around that time, they were in woeful form. 
 

Within the next few weeks, they’d lost at Home to Burnley, Brighton, Everton & Fulham, as well as losing to Leicester, Chelsea & Man C. They were in a run of winning 3 out of 12. Despite all those defeats only one manager thought the achievement so great he started crying though.