Nathan Jones

[Badger]

4 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Time to start planning for the Championship - sack NJ and bring in somebody with experience who can start organising for next season.

The board probably think NJ is the man for us in the championship (in the event we go down of course).

Edited 21 January, 2023 by Badger

[badgerx16]

4 minutes ago, Badger said:

The board probably think NJ is the man for us in the championship (in the event we go down of course).

If he isn't sacked now they will get what they deserve.

[Osvaldorama]

I haven’t changed my opinion. 
 

In fact, today cemented it even more. He is clueless and will take us down. His subs and tactics are completely baffling. 
 

I wanted Ralph to leave but I think he would have more points than NJ by this point. 

Edited 21 January, 2023 by Osvaldorama

[hypochondriac]

24 minutes ago, Badger said:

Agree with this.

If we go down I expect the board will keep him as he has knowledge of the Championship. 

But if we go down without a fight then I fear the negativity surrounding the manager will carry into next season and be difficult to shake off. 

He really doesn't help himself with some of his comments and his general demeanour. I'm not being snobby but he doesn't seem particularly bright which means it's difficult to give him the benefit of the doubt. The last few performances have raised my hopes but this was back to shite again so it is difficult to know what to think. 

[bpsaint]

29 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Sack him. He would have had more than enough games to save us from relegation. He doesn't inspire any form of confidence whatsoever.

Indeed. We were well in with a shout of staying up if we had made the right appointment instead of jones, one that actually gave us a bounce, someone who quite clearly wasn’t so incredibly out of his depth.

Ive resigned myself to the sad reality that we’re stuck with him until it’s too late. In fact I fully expect him to be in charge next season before finally getting the sack after 10 games when a promotion charge is already well out of reach.

 

[Suhari]

53 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Jones interview is up on BBC.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/64272710

my favourite nuggets….

”We’re a really really difficult side to beat”. No Nath, we aren’t. We’ve lost 7 of our last 8 league games.

“If you take out counter attacks and set plays we don’t concede any goals”. Right….

”The performance levels are there, we have to turn them into productive results”. Cups aside, our performance levels have been below par.

Keep talking the good talk Jonesey. Fucking rubbish today nipper.

 

 

What. The. Actual. Fuck.

[sfc4prem]

He's lost all of the games we went into thinking we had a decent chance of three points. Nae good.

[Fabrice29]

12 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

I haven’t changed my opinion. 
 

In fact, today cemented it even more. He is clueless and will take us down. His subs and tactics a completely baffling. 
 

I wanted Ralph to leave but I think he would have more points than NJ by this point. 

All except one of our shots on target were after the subs and we scored a goal that on another day doesn't get disallowed. If people are going to criticise the guy, be smarter about it FFS.

[Miltonaggro]

1 hour ago, The Kraken said:

Jones interview is up on BBC.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/64272710

my favourite nuggets….

”We’re a really really difficult side to beat”. No Nath, we aren’t. We’ve lost 7 of our last 8 league games.

“If you take out counter attacks and set plays we don’t concede any goals”. Right….

”The performance levels are there, we have to turn them into productive results”. Cups aside, our performance levels have been below par.

Keep talking the good talk Jonesey. Fucking rubbish today nipper.

 

 

Fucking barking! 

[OttawaSaint]

Many of the other clubs put in their new players and they had an immediate impact. Why does our muppet leave ours to rot on the bench?

Edited 21 January, 2023 by OttawaSaint

[Ted Bates Statue]

Currently his win percentage in the league is 16.6%. Currently level with Pellegrino, but not quite as bad as Hughes.

Looking on the bright side however, if you disregard all the games we lost, we have a 100% win record. 

We are going to walk this relegation battle.

[Saint Keef]

If you take out Saturdays, Friday nights, Sundays, and midweek games, we don't concede any goals. 

[Osvaldorama]

58 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

All except one of our shots on target were after the subs and we scored a goal that on another day doesn't get disallowed. If people are going to criticise the guy, be smarter about it FFS.

Of course, my apologies. 
 

He is clearly a masterful tactician, with the man management skills to rival Sir Alex Ferguson and the tactical nous of Mourinho.

He was just clearly unlucky today… and against Forest.. and against Fulham…and against Brighton…and against Liverpool…. And will be again against Newcastle on Tuesday 

[sydney_saint]

I want to say this loud enough so the naughty kids at the back of the class can hear. Luck or not. If Ralph was still here, we would have more points today then we do now. Not saying we would definitely stay up. But if you believe we can still stay up with Jones in charge, but don't believe we would have stayed up with Ralph, then you are nuts. That's all. 

[SotonianWill]

1 minute ago, sydney_saint said:

I want to say this loud enough so the naughty kids at the back of the class can hear. Luck or not. If Ralph was still here, we would have more points today then we do now. Not saying we would definitely stay up. But if you believe we can still stay up with Jones in charge, but don't believe we would have stayed up with Ralph, then you are nuts. That's all. 

I thought this at first, but with no good new signings like a striker, we were always destined to go down. ralph had lost the dressing room and the performances towards the end were worse than under jones imo (bar forest). 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

6 minutes ago, SotonianWill said:

I thought this at first, but with no good new signings like a striker, we were always destined to go down. ralph had lost the dressing room and the performances towards the end were worse than under jones imo (bar forest). 

Ralph needed to go. No question. It's the complete clusterfuck of giving Jones the job that will see us relegated. Most clubs get rid of a manager to improve them, we must be the only club to hire a manager that has actually made us worse. No mean feat that.

[sydney_saint]

1 minute ago, SotonianWill said:

I thought this at first, but with no good new signings like a striker, we were always destined to go down. ralph had lost the dressing room and the performances towards the end were worse than under jones imo (bar forest). 

Maybe we were destined to go down, but that wasn't my point. You don't think Ralph would have got more points out of 

Brighton (h)

Fulham (a)

Forest (h)

Everton (a)

Villa (h)

 

Which generated us a whopping 3 points. When Ralphs last 5 games gave us 5 points was. was

Newcastle (h)

Palace (a)

Arsenal (h)

Bournemouth (a)

West Ham (h)

Neither are amazing. But my point was if you think we can stay up with jones, but would have gone down with Ralph, you are nuts

[Roger]

We were doing better under Ralph. We were decent vs Newcastle and 4-1 was a fluke result for them.

[SotonianWill]

Just now, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Ralph needed to go. No question. It's the complete clusterfuck of giving Jones the job that will see us relegated. Most clubs get rid of a manager to improve them, we must be the only club to hire a manager that has actually made us worse. No mean feat that.

Sad thing is I can’t agree, I honestly don’t think we’re worse off under jones. We have got better than the end of ralph, just not enough as we would have if we were given the opportunity villa / wolves were given with their europa league 3x winner manager etc. 

[sydney_saint]

4 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Ralph needed to go. No question. It's the complete clusterfuck of giving Jones the job that will see us relegated. Most clubs get rid of a manager to improve them, we must be the only club to hire a manager that has actually made us worse. No mean feat that.

I would argue it wasn't a mean feat. It was actually odds on. Have a glance at the manager suggestion list before we get sacked. The most common names that were suggested were two managers that effectively had been relegated in their last job. 

This was the reality that most frothing at the mouth to get rid of Ralph would not accept. It's easy to call for a manager to go and want someone better. The harder bit is to find someone. Look how long it took Wolves, with much more money and contact then us, to find someone. I absolutely agree that some managers would have got more out of this team then Ralph. But most of the names we were linked with were clear downgrades. And low and behold, we got one. So it wasn't the massive fuck up that people think. We were odds on to get a downgrade. We just managed to go especially shit and go for a big downgrade.

[SotonianWill]

5 minutes ago, sydney_saint said:

Maybe we were destined to go down, but that wasn't my point. You don't think Ralph would have got more points out of 

Brighton (h)

Fulham (a)

Forest (h)

Everton (a)

Villa (h)

 

Which generated us a whopping 3 points. When Ralphs last 5 games gave us 5 points was. was

Newcastle (h)

Palace (a)

Arsenal (h)

Bournemouth (a)

West Ham (h)

Neither are amazing. But my point was if you think we can stay up with jones, but would have gone down with Ralph, you are nuts

we go down with both. we would have done exactly the same with ralph in charge. we were absolute shit in the last games under ralph. i went to the only win of those games bournemouth and we scored with pretty much our only chance and go outplayed even then. I went to villa when we did fuck all the whole game. whilst we are still absolute shit at least from my perspective we had more chance in the game today to get a result than under a ralph 2022/23 performance. ralph was shite.

[saintant]

8 minutes ago, sydney_saint said:

Maybe we were destined to go down, but that wasn't my point. You don't think Ralph would have got more points out of 

Brighton (h)

Fulham (a)

Forest (h)

Everton (a)

Villa (h)

 

Which generated us a whopping 3 points. When Ralphs last 5 games gave us 5 points was. was

Newcastle (h)

Palace (a)

Arsenal (h)

Bournemouth (a)

West Ham (h)

Neither are amazing. But my point was if you think we can stay up with jones, but would have gone down with Ralph, you are nuts

Think Ralph might have done worse if I'm honest. Think the only games he'd have picked up points would have been Forest and Villa at home and he'd have drawn both. 

[sydney_saint]

2 minutes ago, SotonianWill said:

we go down with both. we would have done exactly the same with ralph in charge. we were absolute shit in the last games under ralph. i went to the only win of those games bournemouth and we scored with pretty much our only chance and go outplayed even then. I went to villa when we did fuck all the whole game. whilst we are still absolute shit at least from my perspective we had more chance in the game today to get a result than under a ralph 2022/23 performance. ralph was shite.

We picked up 4 points in our last 4 games under Ralph. We weren't outplayed by Bournemouth. We didn't create much, but neither did they and we held them pretty comfortable. They barely had a chance. We also got a vital point against runaway leaders Arsenal, whilst the only points we have got here are against the only team in a bigger freefall than we are.

[sydney_saint]

3 minutes ago, saintant said:

Think Ralph might have done worse if I'm honest. Think the only games he'd have picked up points would have been Forest and Villa at home and he'd have drawn both. 

Why do you think we would have got less, when we picked up 4 from the previous 4 games, one of which included Arsenal. Getting over 3 points from our easiest run of the season seems pretty realistic.

[danjosaint]

1 hour ago, Fabrice29 said:

All except one of our shots on target were after the subs and we scored a goal that on another day doesn't get disallowed. If people are going to criticise the guy, be smarter about it FFS.

Yep, deciding to change to 5atb with 25min to go when its clearly not worked before for us, or not replacing Edozie with Orsic instead of choosing a very limited slow lb, yep the guys a fucking genius 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

16 minutes ago, sydney_saint said:

I would argue it wasn't a mean feat. It was actually odds on. Have a glance at the manager suggestion list before we get sacked. The most common names that were suggested were two managers that effectively had been relegated in their last job. 

This was the reality that most frothing at the mouth to get rid of Ralph would not accept. It's easy to call for a manager to go and want someone better. The harder bit is to find someone. Look how long it took Wolves, with much more money and contact then us, to find someone. I absolutely agree that some managers would have got more out of this team then Ralph. But most of the names we were linked with were clear downgrades. And low and behold, we got one. So it wasn't the massive fuck up that people think. We were odds on to get a downgrade. We just managed to go especially shit and go for a big downgrade.

So, what's the club rationale for hiring someone worse than Ralph? They must have thought he was better equipped to keep us up. End of the day, why bother sacking him if the new bloke does an even worse job 

[Badger]

20 minutes ago, Roger said:

We were doing better under Ralph. We were decent vs Newcastle and 4-1 was a fluke result for them.

A game involving glaring misses by Elyonoussi and Adams. 
 

We’ve still to address that key issue.

[saintant]

8 minutes ago, sydney_saint said:

Why do you think we would have got less, when we picked up 4 from the previous 4 games, one of which included Arsenal. Getting over 3 points from our easiest run of the season seems pretty realistic.

But the previous games have little relevance. I looked at the fixtures you listed and made an estimate of the points Ralph would have acquired. It's only my opinion and pure guesswork of course. Ralph or Jones, doesn't really matter as we'd be in the shite whichever was in charge.

[MarkSFC]

Can't be arsed to read all this today, had a few.....do we want him out or do we want him in???

 

 

 

[StrangelyBrown]

Having called for NJ to go many times already, I'm now on the fence simply because there's the slightest glimmer of hope - I can see that the squad have a sense of togetherness and that there at least looks to be a semblance of a plan. Trouble is it's the hope that kills you....

Sadly the same problems persist - namely we have a young keeper who shouldn't really be starting in the prem yet, Che and the alternatives just aren't good enough to play up top by themselves (not enough quality) and we give the ball away far too easily. The latter is something that should come with a bit of confidence and a bit more coaching, the other 2 are in SR's hands.

NJ has bought himself a tiny bit of time, but he needs some results in the league very quickly. A bit of crowd interaction would help buy him some favour, but I think he'd rather chew his nails.

[Marsdinho]

[pimpin4rizeal]

Jeez what a fickle bunch on here.. the problem isn’t Jones the problem is we are severely lacking at both ends of the pitch, we have a striker in adams who can’t finish to save his life, and a goalkeeper at the other who hardly saves anything..

jones setting the team up well doesn’t help as when we are in fifty/fifty games such as yesterday we are at a huge disadvantage because of the above .. the changes jones made yesterday had instant impact and led to the disallowed goal..

he’s right in what he’s saying we are losing cos of small margins but this is because we don’t have a striker and a poor keeper.. this needs to be addressed but I’m losing faith sports republic will 

[wild-saint]

1 hour ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

Jeez what a fickle bunch on here.. the problem isn’t Jones the problem is we are severely lacking at both ends of the pitch, we have a striker in adams who can’t finish to save his life, and a goalkeeper at the other who hardly saves anything..

jones setting the team up well doesn’t help as when we are in fifty/fifty games such as yesterday we are at a huge disadvantage because of the above .. the changes jones made yesterday had instant impact and led to the disallowed goal..

he’s right in what he’s saying we are losing cos of small margins but this is because we don’t have a striker and a poor keeper.. this needs to be addressed but I’m losing faith sports republic will 

100%. Fans complain about poor quality signings, lack of a striker, poor GK etc in one breath and then blame the manager in the next. Which is it? Che Adams needs to take much of the blame for his terrible finishing. 
 

buy the manager a fucking centre forward and a grown up keeper And then let’s see where we are. 

[pimpin4rizeal]

1 hour ago, wild-saint said:

100%. Fans complain about poor quality signings, lack of a striker, poor GK etc in one breath and then blame the manager in the next. Which is it? Che Adams needs to take much of the blame for his terrible finishing. 
 

buy the manager a fucking centre forward and a grown up keeper And then let’s see where we are. 

Exactly, since the Brighton game we have only lost by the odd goal each time,we are competitive and in every game. But in games that come down to the odd one or two chances a match for either team we are totally fucked with adams and bazunu..

The chance adams had yesterday just before kwps disallowed goal was another example of his laughable finishing he finds a way to mess up the easiest chances like it’s a art, then you have bazunu at the other end he doesn’t look confident, hardly saves anything and has made a ton of errors costing us points this season, I can’t even really say I’ve seen a game where I thought he was decent today tbh..watching Martinez in comparison he looked a total class act perfect judgement when coming out to intercept our through balls.

any manager is gonna struggle with these huge issues either side of the pitch. Jones is showing promising signs with his tactics and flexibility to switch formations, but unless we do something about the above problems it’s gonna be difficult to get results 

just to add it’s the first season where we have relied on che as our goal scorer (no ings or broja to bail him out now) and the first with bazunu .. Ralph couldn’t get around it either it needs sorting 

Edited 22 January, 2023 by pimpin4rizeal

[IanCransonsKnees]

It really is like deja vu seeing the opposing views on this thread. 

The one thing Nathan Jones brings the fans as a manager is no middle ground. 

It's interesting to see he still sounds as deluded as ever. Fair play to him for rinsing Stoke and Southampton out of millions with his 'pashun' and chest thumping schtick. 

Is anyone asking for him to be given time as a young (49) up and coming manager yet or using xG stats to excuse his results 🙄

[FarehamSaintJames]

11 hours ago, Osvaldorama said:

I haven’t changed my opinion. 
 

In fact, today cemented it even more. He is clueless and will take us down. His subs and tactics are completely baffling. 
 

I wanted Ralph to leave but I think he would have more points than NJ by this point. 

Agree his tactics are weird.

Do the players know what formation they’re playing anymore? 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1 we should be playing, keep it simple.

We play three CB’s and our FB’s get sucked back so it ends up as a back five and not attacking WB’s.

I didn’t go today because of work but several thousand people across social media and SaintsWeb surely can’t be wrong!?

[Miltonaggro]

There was a convincing argument for replacing Ralph Hassenhutl on results and demeanour over the course of 2022. However, I’m yet to see or hear a convincing argument for replacing him with Nathan fucking Jones.

[danjosaint]

32 minutes ago, Miltonaggro said:

There was a convincing argument for replacing Ralph Hassenhutl on results and demeanour over the course of 2022. However, I’m yet to see or hear a convincing argument for replacing him with Nathan fucking Jones.

Spreadsheets and analysts my friend, 1 balls up after another with these clowns in charge of our club

[Saint Garrett]

He’s obsessed with 5 at the back, and we are appalling every time we play it. The fact he keeps trying it given it doesn’t work is enough to sack him for me. 

[Jimbo]

49 minutes ago, Miltonaggro said:

There was a convincing argument for replacing Ralph Hassenhutl on results and demeanour over the course of 2022. However, I’m yet to see or hear a convincing argument for replacing him with Nathan fucking Jones.

Spot on!

[Saint86]

We did enough to get at least a point out of villa yesterday, and arguably 3.

He has made us a lot harder to beat and we stay in games as a result. But equally we aren't creating enough for the quality of our strikers to put away... We need a better CF and a better left winger!! 

Not down yet.

[S-Clarke]

2 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

We did enough to get at least a point out of villa yesterday, and arguably 3.

He has made us a lot harder to beat and we stay in games as a result. But equally we aren't creating enough for the quality of our strikers to put away... We need a better CF and a better left winger!! 

Not down yet.

He has a World Cup third place winning, Croatian international left winger on the bench, yet seems reluctant to select him. That needs to change

Edited 22 January, 2023 by S-Clarke

[Saint86]

11 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

He has a World Cup third place winning, Croatian international left winger on the bench, yet seems reluctant to select him. That needs to change

Orsic came on yesterday and played on the right / centre from where i was sat. He did very little other than make one of the most offside runs I've seen in years. Totally invisible other than that. I wasn't really looking out for him in fairness so may have missed anything else, but If he's meant to be our saviour it was all a bit concerning tbh. 

Edited 22 January, 2023 by Saint86

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, Saint86 said:

Orsic came on yesterday and played on the right. He did very little other than make one of the most offside runs I've seen in years. A bit concerning tbh. 

That's what I mean, he's a left winger. He needs to play there, that's where he played 90% of the time for Zagreb and where he played 100% of the time for Croatia. On the left, cutting in and shooting at goal. Jones has good tools there, but the question is does he actually know how to use an international level player.

Edited 22 January, 2023 by S-Clarke

[Saint86]

 

1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

That's what I mean, he's a left winger. He needs to play there, that's where he played 90% of the time for Zagreb and where he played 100% of the time for Croatia. On the left, cutting in and shooting at goal. Jones has good tools there, but the question is does he actually know how to use an international level player.

Ah I follow. Who knows. I would like to see alcaraz and orsic playing the next game. They can't be worse than the alternatives as a minimum. Diallo did some decent tracking back but gave the ball away so many times in dangerous areas... Has to be dropped I'm afraid! Edozi and orsic behind Che, with lavia/jwp/alcaraz - the league Cup game is the opportunity to trial this. 

Edited 22 January, 2023 by Saint86

[Killers Knee]

McCarthy

Lyanco - DCC - Salisu - KWP

JWP - Lavia -Alcaraz

Djenepo - Mara - Orsic

 

i would start with this in the next game

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, Saint86 said:

1x

Ah I follow. Who knows. I would like to see alcaraz and orsic playing the next game. They can't be worse than the alternatives as a minimum. Diallo did some decent tracking back but gave the ball away so many times in dangerous areas... Has to be dropped I'm afraid! Edozi and orsic behind Che, with lavia/jwp/alcaraz - the league Cup game is the opportunity to trial this. 

You can’t use a semi final as a “trial”. 

[Saint86]

1 hour ago, Killers Knee said:

McCarthy

Lyanco - DCC - Salisu - KWP

JWP - Lavia -Alcaraz

Djenepo - Mara - Orsic

 

i would start with this in the next game

As would I.

I think that team is close to our best current 11. Arguments for edozi / djenpo, or mara/Che. 

Whats happened to Stuart Armstrong. 

[CamSaint]

46 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

He has made us a lot harder to beat and we stay in games as a result

It is interesting, because that is the impression that I got as well, but that isn't translating into defensive outcomes where it really matters - in the PL. Comparing Jones' 5 full PL results with Ralph's last 5 (omitting the Liverpool game as Ralph had gone, and Jones was really only nominally in charge):

Jones P5, W1, D0, L4, F4, A8, Pts 3

Ralph P5, W1, D2, L2, F5, A6, Pts 5

When you consider that we shipped 4 (against Newcastle) in Ralph's last match in charge, we had only conceded 2 goals in his previous 4 games. Looking at the season as a whole though, Ralph conceded just over 1.7 goals per game, while Jones is currently at 1.6 goals per game (again ignoring the Liverpool fixture). So in summary, there is no improvement in defensive outcome compared to the immediate form before Ralph's sacking, but a marginal improvement compared to Ralph over the season so far. The goals for column doesn't look any better either. Under Ralph we scored 12 in 14 (about 0.86 goals per game) and 4 in 5 under Jones (0.8 goals per game) - again excluding the Liverpool result. Even worse is the overall performance. Ralph accumulated 12 points in 14 games (about 0.86 per game) Jones has 3 in 5 (0.6 per game).

I know these are very basic stats but they further serve to reinforce the blindingly obvious need to improve at both ends of the pitch. Jones has tinkered with all sorts of different formations, which I don't necessarily have a problem with as Ralph was regularly criticised for not having a 'Plan B' or not being proactive in games, but he has used the same set of players and hasn't made any tangible progress. As others have said, it seems crazy that we have brought in 2 new players and have barely used them. Unless fitness is an issue, it is difficult to see why Jones isn't making use of them, especially with the credentials Orsic has.

[tunit]

15 hours ago, Osvaldorama said:

I haven’t changed my opinion. 
 

In fact, today cemented it even more. He is clueless and will take us down. His subs and tactics are completely baffling. 
 

I wanted Ralph to leave but I think he would have more points than NJ by this point. 

We scored about 5 mins after making a triple sub and changing formation...