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AlexLaw76

By AlexLaw76
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CamberwellSaint

CamberwellSaint

Posted
Posted
  On 14/02/2023 at 13:24, OldNick said:

I wonder why the club failed to give him no more than a 15 word send off? I know his tenure was not good but to be so blunt is a surprise

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The usual cliches "would like to thank X for his work while at the club' or "would like to wish X the best for the future" are trotted out even when things haven't ended well.

The fact that the club wouldn't even get these out through gritted teeth, speaks volumes about how divisive and unliked he made himself.

SW11_Saint

SW11_Saint

Posted
Posted

Despite having two articles that pillory him today, the Guardian’s Football Pod made the point that his own ludicrous outbursts will sadly now follow him around - possibly for the rest of his career, and possibly to the detriment of his  mental health. Hopefully he’ll take some time out to recuperate before returning to football/Luton.  

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/football-weekly/id188674007?i=1000599393530

  • Like 2
Southner

Southner

Posted
Posted
  On 14/02/2023 at 18:14, SW11_Saint said:

Despite having two articles that pillory him today, the Guardian’s Football Pod made the point that his own ludicrous outbursts will sadly now follow him around - possibly for the rest of his career, and possibly to the detriment of his  mental health. Hopefully he’ll take some time out to recuperate before returning to football/Luton.  

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/football-weekly/id188674007?i=1000599393530

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As angry as we've all been recently, and as much as we jest, he his human, and he certainly wouldn't have wanted this to end the way it has. Granted we needed the change, but hopefully he'll find somewhere to restart his career. 

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Holmes_and_Watson

Holmes_and_Watson

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 14/02/2023 at 19:00, Southner said:

As angry as we've all been recently, and as much as we jest, he his human, and he certainly wouldn't have wanted this to end the way it has. Granted we needed the change, but hopefully he'll find somewhere to restart his career. 

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It's clear from all the other forums and former players that, despite reflection, he couldn't implement any of the hard lessons learnt after his time at Stoke. He talked about being himself in glowing terms. That turned out to be the case with all the traits he would have wanted to move away from too.

As it stands, he can certainly do a job driving a L1 side. Any success they have should be together, rather than him jumping ship. That way, if he gets promoted with them, he won't struggle to impose his ideas on "better" players.

Due to the premier League platform, he will find it harder, as future players/ chairpersons will have easy access to his interviews, and less than complimentary articles. Although even a quick look at wiki and win % would not help either.

I'd be surprised if anyone wanted it to end the way it did. One of the key questions is more how it was allowed to start, rather than pointing at NJ for taking the offer.

While never wishing ill of anyone, I can't say he'll be taking up too many of my thoughts in future, outside of cautionary posts on here. A little thought is that he takes Havant and Waterlooville to glory. But that's not a level he knows about, and he may be looking to come back somewhere higher up. 🙂

  On 14/02/2023 at 19:13, Pengi said:

Not forgetting the two coaches that have lost their jobs too. 

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Yeah. They were early in my thoughts. After the sheer relief. While NJ gets a big pay off, those guys will get far less. Part of the risk going with a manager. I wonder where they were while their boss was clearly compromising his principles though.

I have more sympathy for his Saints supporting relatives. It's harder for them to move on than NJ and his staff.

Edited by Holmes_and_Watson
autocarrot
  • Like 4
Southner

Southner

Posted
Posted
  On 14/02/2023 at 20:14, Holmes_and_Watson said:

It's clear from all the other forums and former players that, despite reflection, he couldn't implement any of the hard lessons learnt after his time at Stoke. He talked about being himself in glowing terms. That turned out to be the case with all the traits he would have wanted to move away from too.

As it stands, he can certainly do a job driving a L1 side. Any success they have should be together, rather than him jumping ship. That way, if he gets promoted with them, he won't struggle to impose his ideas on "better" players.

Due to the premier League platform, he will find it harder, as future players/ chairpersons will have easy access to his interviews, and less than complimentary articles. Although even a quick look at wiki and win % would not help either.

I'd be surprised if anyone wanted it to end the way it did. One of the key questions is more how it was allowed to start, rather than pointing at NJ for taking the offer.

While never wishing ill of anyone, I can't say he'll be taking up too many of my thoughts in future, outside of cautionary posts on here. A little thought is that he takes Havant and Waterlooville to glory. But that's not a level he knows about, and he may be looking to come back somewhere higher up. 🙂

Yeah. They were early in my thoughts. After the sheer relief. While NJ gets a big pay off, those guys will get far less. Part of the risk going with a manager. I wonder where they were while their boss was clearly compromising his principles though.

I have more sympathy for his Saints supporting relatives. It's harder for them to move on than NJ and his staff.

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There's clearly an ego there that doesn't want to learn lessons from Stoke. This, as you mention, will do him no favours when looking for his next challenge. His media performances alone will have seen to that. 

OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted
  On 14/02/2023 at 20:14, Holmes_and_Watson said:

 

I have more sympathy for his Saints supporting relatives. It's harder for them to move on than NJ and his staff.

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I have thought about this many times, I suspect they now dislike Saints and the fanbase pretty much. There were a section of fans who were at him from the first moment.

Iam like it with JM but I will do my best to try and give him a little time. He grates me, but is he is our hope, I have to go with it

tdmickey3

tdmickey3

Posted
Posted
  On 15/02/2023 at 09:17, OldNick said:

I have thought about this many times, I suspect they now dislike Saints and the fanbase pretty much. There were a section of fans who were at him from the first moment.

Iam like it with JM but I will do my best to try and give him a little time. He grates me, but is he is our hope, I have to go with it

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If he grated you how in the hell did you tolerate Jones?

he was just about the most unlikeable person you could listen to and you seemed to love him

Viking Saint

Viking Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 15/02/2023 at 09:17, OldNick said:

I have thought about this many times, I suspect they now dislike Saints and the fanbase pretty much. There were a section of fans who were at him from the first moment.

Iam like it with JM but I will do my best to try and give him a little time. He grates me, but is he is our hope, I have to go with it

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I'm clinging to the hope that it's not a done deal (yet) and it's all an elaborate smokescreen for a vaguely successful replacement to be announced.....

OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted
  On 15/02/2023 at 09:33, tdmickey3 said:

If he grated you how in the hell did you tolerate Jones?

he was just about the most unlikeable person you could listen to and you seemed to love him

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I didnt love him at all, and had reservations from day one. Difference was I knew that we needed him to do well. Like JM we need it to work.

BOTH are very uninspiring and the owners are not very good IMOeither

 

CamberwellSaint

CamberwellSaint

Posted
Posted

 

I see others have already noted this.

There's nothing wrong per se about NJ doing this; I'm sure it was a laugh for all concerned at the match.

Anyone serious about being a Premiership manager would not do this after being sacked. It screams small-time, small-town, local-league-level mentality. 

Do you remember Jeremy Corbyn going to a local constituency garden party fund raiser for learning-disabled homeless single parents, the day after he won the Labour leadership vote? Exact same problem. Nothing wrong with that as far as it goes. But when you've volunteered to go into bat against the big boys, you've got to leave this stuff behind. Corbyn never did, and NJ didn't either. 

Bit of politics there. My name's Ben Elton. ;) 

Anyone wondering if the club did the right thing in jettisoning NJ [after Chelsea I'm sure there's not many], should have their minds put at rest by this.

  • Confused 1
Saint_clark

Saint_clark

Posted
Posted
  On 14/02/2023 at 20:14, Holmes_and_Watson said:

It's clear from all the other forums and former players that, despite reflection, he couldn't implement any of the hard lessons learnt after his time at Stoke. He talked about being himself in glowing terms. That turned out to be the case with all the traits he would have wanted to move away from too.

 

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It makes you wonder what the hell was said in his interview, if he even had one. 

 

Him playing non-league football continues the David Brent analogy for me - in that christmas special when he went on the speed dating show to try and cling to a little bit of fame. 

  • Like 1
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saintscottofthenortham

saintscottofthenortham

Posted
Posted (edited)

Interesting comments from Jacob Tanswell on the Total Saints Podcast…

”the last week (or post Brentford with NJ) at Staplewood was a disaster. Everyone (staff) sidelined bar NJ, Cohen and Sheehan.

Players took it upon themselves to do their own thing in first half against Wolverhampton.”

Imagine this wouldn’t have gone down well, despite us playing out of our skin, and would explain why we completely fell apart after half time. 

Edited by saintscottofthenortham
  • Like 3
Saint_clark

Saint_clark

Posted
Posted
  On 20/02/2023 at 02:44, saintscottofthenortham said:

Interesting comments from Jacob Tanswell on the Total Saints Podcast…

”the last week (or post Brentford with NJ) at Staplewood was a disaster. Everyone (staff) sidelined bar NJ, Cohen and Sheehan.

Players took it upon themselves to do their own thing in first half against Wolverhampton.”

Imagine this wouldn’t have gone down well, despite us playing out of our skin, and would explain why we completely fell apart after half time. 

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So Jones saw us playing well in the first half and ensured we played worse in the second rather than admitting he was wrong?

  • Like 1
saintscottofthenortham

saintscottofthenortham

Posted
Posted
  On 20/02/2023 at 03:38, Saint_clark said:

So Jones saw us playing well in the first half and ensured we played worse in the second rather than admitting he was wrong?

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God knows. If they've gone against what he'd asked them to do, I'm sure it wouldn't have gone down well, despite playing well. Egotistical maniac, at the end of the day. Something going amiss at HT would explain the complete meltdown, though.

  • Like 3
altoniansaints

altoniansaints

Posted
Posted
  On 20/02/2023 at 02:44, saintscottofthenortham said:

Interesting comments from Jacob Tanswell on the Total Saints Podcast…

”the last week (or post Brentford with NJ) at Staplewood was a disaster. Everyone (staff) sidelined bar NJ, Cohen and Sheehan.

Players took it upon themselves to do their own thing in first half against Wolverhampton.”

Imagine this wouldn’t have gone down well, despite us playing out of our skin, and would explain why we completely fell apart after half time. 

Expand  

This seams to back up my theory that the players had agreed to play for themselves in the first half and "work to rule" in the second to show what rubbish NJ was instructing them to do.  This would also explain JWP not taking shots with the late free kicks, it wouldn't surprise me if NJs instruction was to play it short

  • Like 4
malcolm waldron

malcolm waldron

Posted
Posted
  On 20/02/2023 at 07:46, altoniansaints said:

This seams to back up my theory that the players had agreed to play for themselves in the first half and "work to rule" in the second to show what rubbish NJ was instructing them to do.  This would also explain JWP not taking shots with the late free kicks, it wouldn't surprise me if NJs instruction was to play it short

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Anyone hear the JWP post match reaction comment on Solent after the Chelsea match?  I'm fairly sure he used the words front footed and aggressive in his opening line.  it was as if he was letting our former manager know that that's how you set up and play to win a football match.  Interested to know if others heard it or whether i was imagining it after 3 tough months.....  

saintscottofthenortham

saintscottofthenortham

Posted
Posted
  On 20/02/2023 at 09:26, malcolm waldron said:

Anyone hear the JWP post match reaction comment on Solent after the Chelsea match?  I'm fairly sure he used the words front footed and aggressive in his opening line.  it was as if he was letting our former manager know that that's how you set up and play to win a football match.  Interested to know if others heard it or whether i was imagining it after 3 tough months.....  

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JWP managed to give a pretty damning verdict on NJ, without actually saying too much.

”Ruben has come in and really steadied the ship. He has given us calmness, a bit of direction, bit of structure and just… belief.” Then he refers to Ralph’s reign and returning to how they played under him (before it went wrong). Do think his reference to “front-footed and aggressive” may indeed have been intentional.

Suggests things really were as dire, if not worse, than the murmurs coming out from Staplewood. 

  • Like 1
Ted Bates Statue

Ted Bates Statue

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 20/02/2023 at 02:44, saintscottofthenortham said:

Interesting comments from Jacob Tanswell on the Total Saints Podcast…

”the last week (or post Brentford with NJ) at Staplewood was a disaster. Everyone (staff) sidelined bar NJ, Cohen and Sheehan.

Players took it upon themselves to do their own thing in first half against Wolverhampton.”

Imagine this wouldn’t have gone down well, despite us playing out of our skin, and would explain why we completely fell apart after half time. 

Expand  

Definitely interesting to hear and thanks for sharing for those who haven't listened. I do agree with the decision to sack Jones but it does feel like the easy thing to do, blaming the obvious departing scapegoat in Jones.

The players were still the ones on the pitch, they can't take all the credit when things are going well against Man City or in the first half vs Wolves, and then lay all the blame at NJ for the capitulation. It does sound plausible that Selles got sidelined for Jones' backroom staff, but if this is genuine, then we can expect a massive upturn in form and we should power out of the relegation zone before long. If only life were that simple.

I think the reality is that we don't have a lot of time to make up ground on our rivals, even if it was very encouraging in a number of ways at the weekend. It might be back to earth with a bump if, for example, we only manage a draw against Leeds.

Edited by Ted Bates Statue
  • Confused 1
coalman

coalman

Posted
Posted
  On 19/02/2023 at 20:43, revolution saint said:

1st game never counts.

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It counts if you win it. Apparently he only lasted 10 minutes before he pulled up which means his minutes per assist stats are the best in any league in any European division. Let that sink in.

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Tamesaint

Tamesaint

Posted
Posted
  On 20/02/2023 at 11:09, Ted Bates Statue said:

Definitely interesting to hear and thanks for sharing for those who haven't listened. I do agree with the decision to sack Jones but it does feel like the easy thing to do, blaming the obvious departing scapegoat in Jones.

The players were still the ones on the pitch, they can't take all the credit when things are going well against Man City or in the first half vs Wolves, and then lay all the blame at NJ for the capitulation. It does sound plausible that Selles got sidelined for Jones' backroom staff, but if this is genuine, then we can expect a massive upturn in form and we should power out of the relegation zone before long. If only life were that simple.

I think the reality is that we don't have a lot of time to make up ground on our rivals, even if it was very encouraging in a number of ways at the weekend. It might be back to earth with a bump if, for example, we only manage a draw against Leeds.

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What a strange post. 

A point at Leeds would not be a bad result and would be the continuation of the improvement under Selles. It would not be "back to earth with a bump."

 

ashnats

ashnats

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 20/02/2023 at 00:20, CamberwellSaint said:

 

I see others have already noted this.

There's nothing wrong per se about NJ doing this; I'm sure it was a laugh for all concerned at the match.

Anyone serious about being a Premiership manager would not do this after being sacked. It screams small-time, small-town, local-league-level mentality. 

Do you remember Jeremy Corbyn going to a local constituency garden party fund raiser for learning-disabled homeless single parents, the day after he won the Labour leadership vote? Exact same problem. Nothing wrong with that as far as it goes. But when you've volunteered to go into bat against the big boys, you've got to leave this stuff behind. Corbyn never did, and NJ didn't either. 

Bit of politics there. My name's Ben Elton. ;) 

Anyone wondering if the club did the right thing in jettisoning NJ [after Chelsea I'm sure there's not many], should have their minds put at rest by this.

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This. As soon as you get into a leadership role, it's time to abandon those who put you there, the needy, the disabled, the downtrodden, and just focus on more important (and lucrative) areas. Especially in politics, you don't get successful looking after the little guys. Imagine if government leaders focused on helping the bottom 10%, they'd not get elected again for a lifetime.

 

Same with Nathan Jones, he should focus on getting a job at his highest level, which has been made clear is championship max.

 

Edited by ashnats
  • Confused 1
Hodgey

Hodgey

Posted
Posted

Agree with this - the key is to stop Leeds getting 3 points. Yes ideally we win, but I think we are better off drawing this and beating Leicester rather than the other way around. A point at Leeds is a decent result, losing would be very damaging. 
We also have to solve our dreadful home form if we’ll have any chance of staying up. That Leicester match for me is crucial and could be a season maker.

Ted Bates Statue

Ted Bates Statue

Posted
Posted
  On 20/02/2023 at 12:01, Tamesaint said:

What a strange post. 

A point at Leeds would not be a bad result and would be the continuation of the improvement under Selles. It would not be "back to earth with a bump."

 

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If we intend to stay up, we need wins and particularly so against our relegation rivals. I don't need to look at the Leeds build-up to tell you that it's not a unique belief among our support. If you think that's strange, you must be surprised by a lot of things.

Whitey Grandad

Whitey Grandad

Posted
Posted
  On 20/02/2023 at 00:20, CamberwellSaint said:

 

I see others have already noted this.

There's nothing wrong per se about NJ doing this; I'm sure it was a laugh for all concerned at the match.

Anyone serious about being a Premiership manager would not do this after being sacked. It screams small-time, small-town, local-league-level mentality. 

Do you remember Jeremy Corbyn going to a local constituency garden party fund raiser for learning-disabled homeless single parents, the day after he won the Labour leadership vote? Exact same problem. Nothing wrong with that as far as it goes. But when you've volunteered to go into bat against the big boys, you've got to leave this stuff behind. Corbyn never did, and NJ didn't either. 

Bit of politics there. My name's Ben Elton. ;) 

Anyone wondering if the club did the right thing in jettisoning NJ [after Chelsea I'm sure there's not many], should have their minds put at rest by this.

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He’s gone.

Get over it 🥳

  • Like 1
Saint86

Saint86

Posted
Posted
  On 20/02/2023 at 10:01, saintscottofthenortham said:

JWP managed to give a pretty damning verdict on NJ, without actually saying too much.

”Ruben has come in and really steadied the ship. He has given us calmness, a bit of direction, bit of structure and just… belief.” Then he refers to Ralph’s reign and returning to how they played under him (before it went wrong). Do think his reference to “front-footed and aggressive” may indeed have been intentional.

Suggests things really were as dire, if not worse, than the murmurs coming out from Staplewood. 

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That can't be though. When defending his decision making, Rasmus assured us that things were dire under ralph and superb under Jones 🤣

Charlie Wayman

Charlie Wayman

Posted
Posted
  On 20/02/2023 at 12:07, ashnats said:

This. As soon as you get into a leadership role, it's time to abandon those who put you there, the needy, the disabled, the downtrodden, and just focus on more important (and lucrative) areas. Especially in politics, you don't get successful looking after the little guys. Imagine if government leaders focused on helping the bottom 10%, they'd not get elected again for a lifetime.

 

Same with Nathan Jones, he should focus on getting a job at his highest level, which has been made clear is championship max.

 

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Utter tosh! The guy obviously loves football and is still fit enough to play so why not? Good on him. We all have hobbies. 

  • Like 4
Tamesaint

Tamesaint

Posted
Posted
  On 20/02/2023 at 12:26, Ted Bates Statue said:

If we intend to stay up, we need wins and particularly so against our relegation rivals. I don't need to look at the Leeds build-up to tell you that it's not a unique belief among our support. If you think that's strange, you must be surprised by a lot of things.

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A defeat against Leeds would definitely be a setback.   We can't afford that. A draw, however would not be a bad result and not "back to earth with a bump".

Weston Super Saint

Weston Super Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 20/02/2023 at 11:10, coalman said:

It counts if you win it. Apparently he only lasted 10 minutes before he pulled up which means his minutes per assist stats are the best in any league in any European division. Let that sink in.

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Christ on a bike!

If that can happen to one of the fittest people on the planet, then what chance do us mere mortals have?

  • Like 2

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