Nathan Jones

[OldNick]

Crikey, the author of this thread certainly has got the response he wanted. There are 11 pages, most of the stuff he has ever started have only ever got 2 or 3 replies.

Well done

[derry]

14 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I agree in what you say ''stop the NJ out rubbish' as we're shooting ourselves in the foot, but you can't then say if the players are in conflict he needs to go!

As I said before, a lot of these players have been failures in whatever position we put them in. We should have the power to sack a lot of them for poor performance over a prolonged period of time, but that'll never happen as the players always manage to get their way.

In an extreme example, Man Utd players have done the same. That club have let the players dictate who they want the manager to be, or who they don't want him to be. Yet none of those players have pulled up any trees themselves.

It's not the conflict that's the problem it's the three centrebacks dogma that the players know doesn't work with them for whatever reason. We know it doesn't work with them and we don't have time for this. He has to get the best out of the existing players and get in some reinforcement. Because his three at the back worked for him at Luton doesn't mean it can work here with these players. Conflict will relegate us therefore if there is conflict he has to go. We can't change the players.

[derry]

I will say that if he got in a dominant English speaking centreback skipper/coach then he could possibly get it to work as it would supply on the field direction..

[Midfield_General]

12 hours ago, BotleySaint said:

It's down to SR's bad decision making in the summer. They've shown a total lack of understanding in what it takes to build a Premier League side. 

We have to hope they've not used the same bad decision making to appoint the new manager. But so far their record is not sacking Ralph in the summer when it was obviously needed, signing the Man City youth team and .. well, we'll see if they got NJ right or not.

You can add failure to sign a PL quality striker to that list. With that factored in I agree with you that so far SR have had four big tests and, unless Jones somehow manages to step up, they appear to have failed all four of them. 

Their approach is looking like a dangerous blend of inexperienced naivety and misplaced arrogance, and unless something drastic happens, it’s going to relegate us. 

[Forester]

At the beginning of the season I thought we would be in bottom seven along with three promoted teams, Leeds, Everton and Brentford.  Didn’t imagine Wolves and Wet Spam would be down there, but equally Brentford and Fulham are outperforming expectations.

 

If you look at the table, and we aren’t even halfway through, there really is nothing in it from Bournemouth down, seven places equates to four points, and we have a run of fixtures against teams I expect to be in bottom half at end of season.  So give the guy a chance, he has had two premier league games, and the second half of Liverpool was good in my opinion.  Added to that we won a league cup tie which Brighton couldn’t do against a league one team who had been playing games while we weren’t.

 

This media story is so predictable.  At every club (as in every large company) there are aggrieved people out of favour, want to go etc and when results are bad they leak these stories.  You never hear a peep when results are good, and that is because no one lends them credibility.

 

I couldn’t give a shit if some players don’t want to play in a certain formation.  When they retire they can try coaching, until then they are payed huge sums to play and they are bottom of the league.  Is their suggestion “more of what we were doing, please”?

 

To be clear I wanted Rafa or Dyche appointed, and was surprised at Jones appointment, but that doesn’t mean I can’t see sense in giving him an opportunity to manage through this period.  We were heading to the championship before he came, if he finishes 16th with this squad it is an achievement in my opinion.

[Mr X]

28 minutes ago, Forester said:

At the beginning of the season I thought we would be in bottom seven along with three promoted teams, Leeds, Everton and Brentford.  Didn’t imagine Wolves and Wet Spam would be down there, but equally Brentford and Fulham are outperforming expectations.

 

If you look at the table, and we aren’t even halfway through, there really is nothing in it from Bournemouth down, seven places equates to four points, and we have a run of fixtures against teams I expect to be in bottom half at end of season.  So give the guy a chance, he has had two premier league games, and the second half of Liverpool was good in my opinion.  Added to that we won a league cup tie which Brighton couldn’t do against a league one team who had been playing games while we weren’t.

 

This media story is so predictable.  At every club (as in every large company) there are aggrieved people out of favour, want to go etc and when results are bad they leak these stories.  You never hear a peep when results are good, and that is because no one lends them credibility.

 

I couldn’t give a shit if some players don’t want to play in a certain formation.  When they retire they can try coaching, until then they are payed huge sums to play and they are bottom of the league.  Is their suggestion “more of what we were doing, please”?

 

To be clear I wanted Rafa or Dyche appointed, and was surprised at Jones appointment, but that doesn’t mean I can’t see sense in giving him an opportunity to manage through this period.  We were heading to the championship before he came, if he finishes 16th with this squad it is an achievement in my opinion.

Even 17th is an achievement surely? To stay up now will be a huge huge get out of jail card 

[LaptopSaint]

1 hour ago, derry said:

It's not the conflict that's the problem it's the three centrebacks dogma that the players know doesn't work with them for whatever reason. We know it doesn't work with them and we don't have time for this. He has to get the best out of the existing players and get in some reinforcement. Because his three at the back worked for him at Luton doesn't mean it can work here with these players. Conflict will relegate us therefore if there is conflict he has to go. We can't change the players.

Why won’t three at the back work with Sali ABK and DCC? And KWP and a returning Tino at wing back? And Lavia patrolling in front of them?

If it’s because the players have already decided it won’t work without trying out the ideas of a new manager they can fit in or fuck off IMO. 

[derry]

Just now, LaptopSaint said:

Why won’t three at the back work with Sali ABK and DCC? And KWP and a returning Tino at wing back? And Lavia patrolling in front of them?

If it’s because the players have already decided it won’t work without trying out the ideas of a new manager they can fit in or fuck off IMO. 

Probably Ralph spending the pre season training for it but ended up a clusterfuck and was immediately ditched.

[LaptopSaint]

7 minutes ago, derry said:

Probably Ralph spending the pre season training for it but ended up a clusterfuck and was immediately ditched.

Also true that in the first few weeks Jones had to implement his ideas Sali and ABK were at the World Cup and Tino, Lavia and KWP were all injured. So that was just DCC available. 
 

 

[wild-saint]

35 minutes ago, Mr X said:

Even 17th is an achievement surely? To stay up now will be a huge huge get out of jail card 

Dry your eyes, mate. I know it's hard to take but her mind has been made up !

3 points off safety with 20+ games to go. 

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, LaptopSaint said:

Also true that in the first few weeks Jones had to implement his ideas Sali and ABK were at the World Cup and Tino, Lavia and KWP were all injured. So that was just DCC available. 
 

 

what about everyone else then? Did they have a day off against Brighton?

[Saintscummer]

24 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

what about everyone else then? Did they have a day off against Brighton?

Yeah, players have off days. Especially with a new Manager having his first proper league game. 
 

I couldn’t care less about NJ and he might be the wrong guy but as far as I see it he deserves a chance. The appointment is made so I think we should get behind him. 
 

I see it as a step towards the way Brentford play. Direct and fast with athletic players. 
 

the exact opposite to RH sideways and backward passing of the last few seasons. There will be a challenging period of change. This is it. 

[Tamesaint]

45 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

what about everyone else then? Did they have a day off against Brighton?

So sack the manager because they lost a match???

[the saint in winchester]

Leeds may have lost against City but I noted the commentator remarking how supportive the Leeds fans were, right to the end.

How about we all support our team and manager until the end of January, then see if that support helped or had no effect. I'm as frustrated as everyone, feel let down by players not performing to their capacity, have doubts about Jones, question whether it's worth spending money in January. The one thing we CAN do is to see if support helps.

[Chez]

1 hour ago, derry said:

Probably Ralph spending the pre season training for it but ended up a clusterfuck and was immediately ditched.

Clusterfuck is the perfect word. 

[SotonianWill]

1 hour ago, the saint in winchester said:

Leeds may have lost against City but I noted the commentator remarking how supportive the Leeds fans were, right to the end.

How about we all support our team and manager until the end of January, then see if that support helped or had no effect. I'm as frustrated as everyone, feel let down by players not performing to their capacity, have doubts about Jones, question whether it's worth spending money in January. The one thing we CAN do is to see if support helps.

we did at the start but nothing changed, the players just aren’t very good and fans are sick of it. Even the Itchen is hilariously toxic. I get supporting till the end losing 3-1 to Man City, but when it’s against Brighton, Newcastle or sheffield wednesday (we won but they were better) and you’re still getting dicked at home it’s a bit different. 

[egg]

2 hours ago, LaptopSaint said:

Why won’t three at the back work with Sali ABK and DCC? And KWP and a returning Tino at wing back? And Lavia patrolling in front of them?

If it’s because the players have already decided it won’t work without trying out the ideas of a new manager they can fit in or fuck off IMO. 

Why it's not working is weird. Sali, ABK and DCC should make a cracking CB trio. All good defenders, all read the game well enough, and all are ok on the ball. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 hours ago, LaptopSaint said:

Why won’t three at the back work with Sali ABK and DCC? And KWP and a returning Tino at wing back? And Lavia patrolling in front of them?

 

Exactly.

 

Maybe this “3 at the back won’t work” pony comes about because the previous management didn’t drill it properly and didn’t implement it properly. From my point of view Salisu, ABK & DCC are 3 of our better players, in some respects I’d even say they were our best 3 players. I’d want them all  in the team. We’re just not good enough for one of these 3 to be on the bench. It’s the managers job to get a system where our best 11 are on the pitch, we’re just not good enough beyond that. 

The problem is teams have been able to pick us apart because our midfield is fucking woeful at getting near them. Give premier league players time on the ball and they’ll kill you. Personally, I’d play a back 5 with the fullbacks playing as full backs, not wing backs as the issue is our centre halves getting exposed down the flanks as a back 3. I’d then play a diamond in midfield, with Lavia and Prowse as the tips and Adams up top alone. 

[Crab Lungs]

16 minutes ago, egg said:

Why it's not working is weird. Sali, ABK and DCC should make a cracking CB trio. All good defenders, all read the game well enough, and all are ok on the ball. 

It’s utterly baffling isn’t it. I find myself wanting us to persist with it, but then after seeing it for about 20 mins, I want it over with. 
 

I’m not sure entirely it’s the wrong system, but I think the players they have in front of them in midfield could be the issue.

[SambaMaverick]

I think our midfield in any system is the problem.

There's no room for powder puff any more, as Liverpool are finding out to a certain extent. They need some horrible, hard-running fuckers in there asap or they'll miss out on CL this season.

[LGTL]

Have DCC ABK and Salisu played together in a 3 yet? My mind is so made up on that formation because it usually contains the shambles of Lyanco. 

[egg]

4 minutes ago, Crab Lungs said:

It’s utterly baffling isn’t it. I find myself wanting us to persist with it, but then after seeing it for about 20 mins, I want it over with. 
 

I’m not sure entirely it’s the wrong system, but I think the players they have in front of them in midfield could be the issue.

I think midfield is the problem. They get overrun and the defence are then facing strikers and midfield runners. 4 at the back gives scope for 1 more in midfield which, in theory, should stem the tide. 

Personally, if Jones likes a back 3, he should persist with it and build a team in front of it that complements it. And like Duckie says, DCC, Sali and ABK are 3 of our better players. We shouldn't have one (or two) of them on the bench and the likes of Maitland Niles starting. Play your preferred system and your best players. 

[Chez]

21 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Personally, I’d play a back 5 with the fullbacks playing as full backs, not wing backs as the issue is our centre halves getting exposed down the flanks as a back 3. I’d then play a diamond in midfield, with Lavia and Prowse as the tips and Adams up top alone. 

OK. That means we will have 7 players stopping goals and four to score them, one of those JWP who has been a deep lying midfielder most of his career and a single striker, Adams, who has tended to play as part of a two striker attack. With so few forward players there will be no chance of pressing high up the pitch and getting cheap ball in dangerous areas, which is where a lot of our goals have come from over the last four years. Are you not worried that we might struggle (even more) to score goals? 

[Smirking_Saint]

Never been a fan of 3/5 back formations, there is quite a misconception that you can employ them and be defensively sound but realistically they are harder to implement then most orthodox 4 back tactics

You really need to be disciplined in your roles and who you’re expected to mark, who is taking responsibility or else you run the risk of players just not taking charge of situations (exactly what we saw early season) 

Its also hugely susceptible to counters, especially wide and generally causes problems in central midfield who are expected to deal with not only the midfield battle but also cover wide areas vacated by the wing men

Frankly Ive never been a fan, and Im almost certain its not something we can implement overnight

 

Thid is a really interesting piece on 3 back formations if anybody is interested- https://breakingthelines.com/tactical-analysis/the-strengths-and-weaknesses-of-a-man-oriented-back-three/

Edited 30 December, 2022 by Smirking_Saint

[aintforever]

19 minutes ago, Chez said:

OK. That means we will have 7 players stopping goals and four to score them, one of those JWP who has been a deep lying midfielder most of his career and a single striker, Adams, who has tended to play as part of a two striker attack. With so few forward players there will be no chance of pressing high up the pitch and getting cheap ball in dangerous areas, which is where a lot of our goals have come from over the last four years. Are you not worried that we might struggle (even more) to score goals? 

That’s how I see it, you don’t need three centre backs if you have two defensive centre midfielders, you end up too passive.

[Baird of the land]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Why it's not working is weird. Sali, ABK and DCC should make a cracking CB trio. All good defenders, all read the game well enough, and all are ok on the ball. 

I think part of the problem is the lack of pace in the team, which affects the ability to transition quickly forward and defensively. Perraud is no wingback. The midfield is slow, the strikers lack pace too. Hopefully we can sign/recall from loan some players that are better suited to it so we make the most of our depth at CB.

[Mr X]

3 hours ago, wild-saint said:

Dry your eyes, mate. I know it's hard to take but her mind has been made up !

3 points off safety with 20+ games to go. 

I know there's plenty of games left that much is obvious but the point is our form has been horrific pretty much all of this season and the second half of last season we have an ingrained losing mentality how is that suddenly going to change? Especially with a manager who seems no better than Ralph at motivating players or choosing the right system.

[InvictaSaint]

3 hours ago, Smirking_Saint said:

Never been a fan of 3/5 back formations, there is quite a misconception that you can employ them and be defensively sound but realistically they are harder to implement then most orthodox 4 back tactics

You really need to be disciplined in your roles and who you’re expected to mark, who is taking responsibility or else you run the risk of players just not taking charge of situations (exactly what we saw early season) 

Its also hugely susceptible to counters, especially wide and generally causes problems in central midfield who are expected to deal with not only the midfield battle but also cover wide areas vacated by the wing men

Frankly Ive never been a fan, and Im almost certain its not something we can implement overnight

 

Thid is a really interesting piece on 3 back formations if anybody is interested- https://breakingthelines.com/tactical-analysis/the-strengths-and-weaknesses-of-a-man-oriented-back-three/

Good article S-S. The rewards of a man-oriented defensive 3 are clear - if - and it’s a big if! - you have the defenders to do it. Likewise the pitfalls are clear as daylight: lose a defensive duel or get sucked in by an attacker dropping deep and allowing another play to push into vacated space and you can get totally punished. The stat for Atlanta (who use the system) having suffered one of the lowest numbers of shots on their goal but one of the highest number of goals against is because of all the above. Like you, I’m not sure we have the players to carry out such a system anywhere near effectively enough. 

Edited 30 December, 2022 by InvictaSaint

[Smirking_Saint]

23 minutes ago, InvictaSaint said:

Gods article S-S. The rewards of a man-oriented defensive 3 are clear - if - and it’s a big if! - you have the defenders to do it. Likewise the pitfalls are clear as daylight: lose a defensive duel or get sucked in by an attacker dropping deep and allowing another play to push into vacated space and you can get totally punished. The stat for Atlanta (who use the system) having suffered one of the lowest numbers of shots on their goal but one of the highest number of goals against is because of all the above. Like you, I’m not sure we have the players to carry out such a system anywhere near effectively enough. 

100%

I think without an effective DM (which is our issue now tbh without Lavia) and with two good but relatively inexperienced CBs (Salisu/ABK) its a risk

Potentially its why Jones wants to being in Bednarek and Stephens… but the issue their is the former has burnt his bridges and the latter just isn’t/has never been a proactive defender

[Saint Garrett]

3 hours ago, egg said:

Why it's not working is weird. Sali, ABK and DCC should make a cracking CB trio. All good defenders, all read the game well enough, and all are ok on the ball. 

Because none of them want to play left or right, they all want to play in the middle. Salisu IMO, looks all over the place when he plays left of a 3. 

A decent coach should be able to get this side working with 3 at the back, but I’m not sure Jones is. 

Also, IMO, it’s more that we already struggle to create and score goals with 433, with one less attacking player on the pitch, and one more CB, I’m not sure that gives us a better chance of scoring goals!? 

[Fan The Flames]

6 hours ago, Saintscummer said:

Yeah, players have off days. Especially with a new Manager having his first proper league game. 
 

I couldn’t care less about NJ and he might be the wrong guy but as far as I see it he deserves a chance. The appointment is made so I think we should get behind him. 
 

I see it as a step towards the way Brentford play. Direct and fast with athletic players. 
 

the exact opposite to RH sideways and backward passing of the last few seasons. There will be a challenging period of change. This is it. 

Every other club has a new manager bounce, we have the opposite, not a great endorsement of NJ.

[The Cat]

44 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

Every other club has a new manager bounce, we have the opposite, not a great endorsement of NJ.

What if this is actually a bounce and we would have been even worse if he hadn't become manager?

[Lighthouse]

46 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

Every other club has a new manager bounce, we have the opposite, not a great endorsement of NJ.

There have been plenty of other examples of new managers being a complete flop from the get go. In fact I’d say they were more frequent than the success stories.

[Viking Saint]

9 hours ago, saint1977 said:

Yes, I ‘loved’ being in the away end in 2007 when we lost 5-1 up there as a total shambles http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_div_1/7019679.stm

I also ‘loved’ when PNE scored an injury time winner in the return game at Christmas in front of our ‘proper support’. Did laugh when someone in the Kingsland North shouted ‘Merry Christmas Saints’ as the goal went in. 

I was at the 5-1 pumping as well, as I lived and worked about half an hour from Deepdale and sat there in the home end with my Preston-supporting mates - bloody awful night!

To me, the whole thing reeks of us trying to be too clever by half and thinking that we know something that no other club does.

 

Edited 30 December, 2022 by Viking Saint

[64saint]

11 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

There have been plenty of other examples of new managers being a complete flop from the get go. In fact I’d say they were more frequent than the success stories.

Funnily enough I've just been watching the Arsenal documentary All or Nothing on Amazon and how at the start of last season they were bottom of the Premiership after a few games and the supporters were calling for Arteta's head, saying he was clueless and how he had to go.  I've been trying in my own head to sort of transfer that situation to Nathan Jones being clueless right now and a year later us being top of the Premiership.  Unfortunately my head exploded at the thought !!!!!!

Edited 30 December, 2022 by 64saint

[Dark Munster]

10 hours ago, Crab Lungs said:

Never, ever let the tail wag the dog.

Fkkk those players if it’s true. 

 

Depends. If the manager is competent, like Claude was, I agree, fkkk the players. But if he's clearly out of his depth, like Nathan Wigley appears to be, then who can blame them?

Of course that requires the board to know the difference, and all signs are they haven't got a clue.

[Pengi]

Anyone know what influence Selles has now?

[CB Fry]

22 minutes ago, Pengi said:

Anyone know what influence Selles has now?

Depends whether we win or not.

[Miltonaggro]

1 hour ago, Pengi said:

Anyone know what influence Selles has now?

Not enough. 

[Kermitzasaint]

On 29/12/2022 at 03:25, Smirking_Saint said:

I believe so yeah… and part of me understands it.. Ralph is a good manager but we didn’t get the striker he needed AND things eventually fell apart for him, im not sure it was mutually exclusive

Unfortunately we’re being told NJ needs time.. and we don’t have it, certainly Ive not seen any impact from his coaching over the last 6-8 weeks and arguably if we needed to give a new manager time the it needed to happen sooner

I see it claimed that Ralph was a good manager but there is never any evidence to back it up. 

[Fitzhugh Fella]

18 hours ago, the saint in winchester said:

Leeds may have lost against City but I noted the commentator remarking how supportive the Leeds fans were, right to the end.

How about we all support our team and manager until the end of January, then see if that support helped or had no effect. I'm as frustrated as everyone, feel let down by players not performing to their capacity, have doubts about Jones, question whether it's worth spending money in January. The one thing we CAN do is to see if support helps.

Leeds play good to watch never say die football. Spot the difference

Edited 31 December, 2022 by Fitzhugh Fella
Missed out a word

[CB Fry]

19 hours ago, the saint in winchester said:

Leeds may have lost against City but I noted the commentator remarking how supportive the Leeds fans were, right to the end.

How about we all support our team and manager until the end of January, then see if that support helped or had no effect. I'm as frustrated as everyone, feel let down by players not performing to their capacity, have doubts about Jones, question whether it's worth spending money in January. The one thing we CAN do is to see if support helps.

No one expects to beat Man City any more so fans aren’t going to go into those games in anything other than supportive mode. 

If Leeds got dicked 1-3 at home to Brighton then their fan base would not jolly it all along clapping and cheering their heroes like loyal little soldiers. They'd be fuming and booing and leaving early. 

I think it is already getting tiresome this idea that all other fans are mega supportive and don't complain and just obediently clap and cheer their teams in all circumstances. But horrid Saints fans uniquely get annoyed when the team are perpetually awful. 

Personally I think stop going on about the fans and let's see if this manager who was recruited specifically to keep us in the Premier League can actually do that.

Edited 31 December, 2022 by CB Fry

[Nordic Saint]

3 hours ago, Kermitzasaint said:

I see it claimed that Ralph was a good manager but there is never any evidence to back it up. 

He took RB Leipzig to runners-up in the Bundesliga and he also turned Saints around after our decline under Pellegrino and Hughes. You don't last 4 years at a Premier League club without being a good manager.  His mistake was not to leave us after two years when his stock was high. I'm sure plenty of clubs wanted him then. If he'd left at the end of the 2019/20 season. he'd have been hailed as a good manager by everyone in the football world. He made the mistake of remaining loyal to an unambitious club which was not prepared to back him financially. Under those circumstances he did well to get us to 11th, 15th and 15th the last 3 seasons. He was clearly disillusioned this season and it was time for him to go but I'll always remember him for putting the heart back in the club and taking us to the top of the Premier League for the first time in our history.  I wish him well in the future. 

[Charlie Wayman]

6 minutes ago, Nordic Saint said:

He took RB Leipzig to runners-up in the Bundesliga and he also turned Saints around after our decline under Pellegrino and Hughes. You don't last 4 years at a Premier League club without believing that  being a good manager.  His mistake was not to leave us after two years when his stock was high. I'm sure plenty of clubs wanted him then. If he'd left at the end of the 2019/20 season. he'd have been hailed as a good manager by everyone in the football world. He made the mistake of remaining loyal to an unambitious club which was not prepared to back him financially. Under those circumstances he did well to get us to 11th, 15th and 15th the last 3 seasons. He was clearly disillusioned this season and it was time for him to go but I'll always remember him for putting the heart back in the club and taking us to the top of the Premier League for the first time in our history.  I wish him well in the future. 

Too many people were hoodwinked into believing that the intelligence and bonhomie evident at press conferences was confirmation of the bloke being a good manager. Bull$ht has always baffled brains and always will.

Edited 31 December, 2022 by Charlie Wayman

[imadirtyurchin]

15 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Too many people were hoodwinked into believing that the intelligence and bonhomie evident at press conferences was confirmation of the bloke being a good manager. Bull$ht has always baffled brains and always will.

Sure, just ignore the facts and tangible achievements listed. You didn’t like him we get it.

personally - I think he needed to go it had gone sour. But there was a period when we were playing very well, looked like the club had a plan and I enjoyed watching us play. Started to get results and also played some good football. To say we didn’t is revisionist. Yes we had some very very poor results and the last year has been dire.  But after the boring footy of Puel, the disappointment of hughes and utter clusterfuck of pellegrino - Ralph was a breath of fresh air and he bought a feel good factor back -  all too briefly. I don’t think he was backed enough and I’ll remember his time far more fondly than others. I wonder if NJ will get us to the top of the league?? (This one!) 

Edited 31 December, 2022 by imadirtyurchin

[Turkish]

21 minutes ago, Nordic Saint said:

He took RB Leipzig to runners-up in the Bundesliga and he also turned Saints around after our decline under Pellegrino and Hughes. You don't last 4 years at a Premier League club without being a good manager.  His mistake was not to leave us after two years when his stock was high. I'm sure plenty of clubs wanted him then. If he'd left at the end of the 2019/20 season. he'd have been hailed as a good manager by everyone in the football world. He made the mistake of remaining loyal to an unambitious club which was not prepared to back him financially. Under those circumstances he did well to get us to 11th, 15th and 15th the last 3 seasons. He was clearly disillusioned this season and it was time for him to go but I'll always remember him for putting the heart back in the club and taking us to the top of the Premier League for the first time in our history.  I wish him well in the future. 

Classic Dirk, how many times over the years have you done this act? When a player or manager leaves they become a legend. 

[aintforever]

26 minutes ago, Nordic Saint said:

He took RB Leipzig to runners-up in the Bundesliga and he also turned Saints around after our decline under Pellegrino and Hughes. You don't last 4 years at a Premier League club without being a good manager.  His mistake was not to leave us after two years when his stock was high. I'm sure plenty of clubs wanted him then. If he'd left at the end of the 2019/20 season. he'd have been hailed as a good manager by everyone in the football world. He made the mistake of remaining loyal to an unambitious club which was not prepared to back him financially. Under those circumstances he did well to get us to 11th, 15th and 15th the last 3 seasons. He was clearly disillusioned this season and it was time for him to go but I'll always remember him for putting the heart back in the club and taking us to the top of the Premier League for the first time in our history.  I wish him well in the future. 

I agree. If the club had signed a decent striker in the summer I think we would be 7-8 points better off and he would still be here.

Replacing Broja and Shane Long with a French kid basically fucked the whole team. Ralph was far from perfect but that is the reason we will go down. IMO.

[Whitey Grandad]

10 minutes ago, imadirtyurchin said:

Sure, just ignore the facts and tangible achievements listed. You didn’t like him we get it.

personally - I think he needed to go it had gone sour. But there was a period when we were playing very well, looked like the club had a plan and I enjoyed watching us play. Started to get results and also played some good football. To say we didn’t is revisionist. Yes we had some very very poor results and the last year has been dire.  But after the boring footy of Puel, the disappointment of hughes and utter clusterfuck of pellegrino - Ralph was a breath of fresh air and he bought a feel good factor back -  all too briefly. I don’t think he was backed enough and I’ll remember his time far more fondly than others. I wonder if NJ will get us to the top of the league?? (This one!) 

I agree, at least for the first couple of years, but there came a point where it went wrong and he suddenly seemed to overbelieve in himself. He started to tinker and we lost the ethos of the way that we played. I think it went wrong after that Cup match against West Ham. Sure, we won, but we never seemed to be the same team again.

[imadirtyurchin]

1 minute ago, Whitey Grandad said:

I agree, at least for the first couple of years, but there came a point where it went wrong and he suddenly seemed to overbelieve in himself. He started to tinker and we lost the ethos of the way that we played. I think it went wrong after that Cup match against West Ham. Sure, we won, but we never seemed to be the same team again.

Yeah I agree with this too. 
 

 

[SotonianWill]

37 minutes ago, Nordic Saint said:

He took RB Leipzig to runners-up in the Bundesliga and he also turned Saints around after our decline under Pellegrino and Hughes. You don't last 4 years at a Premier League club without being a good manager.  His mistake was not to leave us after two years when his stock was high. I'm sure plenty of clubs wanted him then. If he'd left at the end of the 2019/20 season. he'd have been hailed as a good manager by everyone in the football world. He made the mistake of remaining loyal to an unambitious club which was not prepared to back him financially. Under those circumstances he did well to get us to 11th, 15th and 15th the last 3 seasons. He was clearly disillusioned this season and it was time for him to go but I'll always remember him for putting the heart back in the club and taking us to the top of the Premier League for the first time in our history.  I wish him well in the future. 

I agree with a lot of this, but this part has got to be a wind up