Nathan Jones

[Fan The Flames]

If we consider Jones as a massive gamble, so when the board made this decision, what were the list of pros that outweighed the cons.

I can't think of many, certainly not enough to outweigh the cons. What did they see in him, what was their plan?

Edited 5 January, 2023 by Fan The Flames

[The Cat]

  On 05/01/2023 at 06:29, AlexLaw76 said:

When Everton and West Ham dispense with their respective managers, will they go for Gary Rowett or Ryan Lowe, both from the Championship?

nope.  Why do we have to be so whacky and different?

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I can think of 2 times that Everton have already dispensed with a manager and employed someone from the Championship.

Moyes from Preston. Worked pretty well. Lampard from Derby, not so much.

Appointing a manager from the Championship isn't necessarily a bad decision. Appointing the wrong one is.

[CB Fry]

  On 05/01/2023 at 07:46, The Cat said:

I can think of 2 times that Everton have already dispensed with a manager and employed someone from the Championship.

Moyes from Preston. Worked pretty well. Lampard from Derby, not so much.

Appointing a manager from the Championship isn't necessarily a bad decision. Appointing the wrong one is.

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They did not recruit Lampard "from Derby" or from the Championship. His last job was in the Premier League, at Chelsea.

Moyes was 20 years ago but yeah.

[CB Fry]

And yes you can pretend that Chelsea employing one if their greatest ever players/figureheads as manager from his previous role at Derby is just the same as us employing Nathan Jones. Fill your boots.

[egg]

  On 05/01/2023 at 07:46, The Cat said:

I can think of 2 times that Everton have already dispensed with a manager and employed someone from the Championship.

Moyes from Preston. Worked pretty well. Lampard from Derby, not so much.

Appointing a manager from the Championship isn't necessarily a bad decision. Appointing the wrong one is.

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Yep. No issue with hiring from the championship at all. But signing kids, some schooled in Pep's style, then hiring a manager who makes Allardyce's football look like it's from the future, is mental. 

[The Cat]

  On 05/01/2023 at 07:48, CB Fry said:

They did not recruit Lampard "from Derby" or from the Championship. His last job was in the Premier League, at Chelsea.

Moyes was 20 years ago but yeah.

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Fair point. 

In that case Chelsea recruited a manager from the Championship. He was crap there and Everton still have him a job. Probably would have been better with a Championship manager, haha.

[stknowle]

One thing I will say in his defence - He IS a miracle worker. He's made us much worse than we were and that is a miracle.

[Morse]

When Jones name came up as someone we were talking to the collective response of nearly everyone was 'WHY'? 

There is nothing in his CV that makes him stand out from any lower league manager. On the contrary, he failed miserably at Stoke. 

It's as if SR put the names of every lower league manager in a hat, and pulled out Jones. 

Unfathomable. Makes you wonder what lunacy they are capable of next.

[The Cat]

  On 05/01/2023 at 07:52, CB Fry said:

And yes you can pretend that Chelsea employing one if their greatest ever players/figureheads as manager from his previous role at Derby is just the same as us employing Nathan Jones. Fill your boots.

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It's obviously not the same. Still a shit appointment though.

[Weston Super Saint]

  On 05/01/2023 at 07:53, The Cat said:

Fair point. 

In that case Chelsea recruited a manager from the Championship. He was crap there and Everton still have him a job. Probably would have been better with a Championship manager, haha.

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Well, the good news is that Lampard's future rests on Everton's result against us which means he ain't going anywhere!

[CB Fry]

  On 05/01/2023 at 07:53, The Cat said:

Fair point. 

In that case Chelsea recruited a manager from the Championship. He was crap there and Everton still have him a job. Probably would have been better with a Championship manager, haha.

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Honestly I think these days managers need to be promoted into the Premier League like Frank or Brendan Rodgers.

I think the days of recruiting from a Championship club into the Premier League (outside of sexy names like Lampard) are probably over.

[CB Fry]

If nothing else Nathan Jones has probably fucked it for an entire generation of Championship managers. No one is going to be risking that for a while.

[egg]

  On 05/01/2023 at 07:57, CB Fry said:

Honestly I think these days managers need to be promoted into the Premier League like Frank or Brendan Rodgers.

I think the days of recruiting from a Championship club into the Premier League (outside of sexy names like Lampard) are probably over.

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I get your point, and I think a lot has to do with the dressing room respecting the manager, ie his name, track record and reputation. Big egos want and need a bit of gravitas to manage them. Frank gained that respect and bought it with him to the premier league. There'll always be an exception though - Vincent Kompany could walk into a premier league club tomorrow and have the respect of the dressing room from the start. 

[Pamplemousse]

  On 05/01/2023 at 07:53, Morse said:

When Jones name came up as someone we were talking to the collective response of nearly everyone was 'WHY'? 

There is nothing in his CV that makes him stand out from any lower league manager. On the contrary, he failed miserably at Stoke. 

It's as if SR put the names of every lower league manager in a hat, and pulled out Jones. 

Unfathomable. Makes you wonder what lunacy they are capable of next.

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Cowley brothers to come in next

[coalman]

Still can't believe Jones gave the players two weeks off during the world cup.

Chopping and changing players while retaining Moi and Lyanco is never going to result in a cutting edge or defensive stability.

And don't even get me started on 5 at the back.

Knowing us we'll fire Jones just after Everton have replaced Lampard with Potter.

Edited 5 January, 2023 by coalman

[Harry_SFC]

I personally think if we don't sack him before the Villa game we are down. We always lose at Everton anyway so that's a write off regardless.

Most likely relegated anyway but it would at least give us a chance. 

[Mr X]

  On 04/01/2023 at 22:30, gammon cheeks said:

Brink back Koeman

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It needs something like this it's needs a name that will create a bit of excitement it's the only thing that's going to save us a manager that has the skills to keeps us up and will give us that bounce and get some kind of identity back into the team...  And yes are crook of shit players have to take responsibility too but we can't sack all of them unfortunately so Jones has to go now, But to have any chance we need to act now and I just can't see our shambolic team of decision makers at the club admitting they fooked up big time, they were obviously preparing for the championship when they appointed him in the first place 

 

What skillset has he actually bought to the club? He hasn't motivated them, hasn't a clue which players should start, doesn't know how we should play or what tactics we should deploy..... Does all this sound familiar??? All he does is shout wave his arms and look scared 

[Saint NL]

I genuinely can't believe I woke up and he's not been sacked overnight. 

[egg]

  On 05/01/2023 at 08:09, Harry_SFC said:

I personally think if we don't sack him before the Villa game we are down. We always lose at Everton anyway so that's a write off regardless.

Most likely relegated anyway but it would at least give us a chance. 

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It'll be money and ego holding them back. Would they admit their mistake? Would they be willing to pay the compensation to get rid on top of the compo they paid to hire him in?

As much as I don't subscribe to the crazy "they want relegation" idea, I think that if they stick with him, they're accepting that it's a reality and won't throw money at trying to stay up. 

[egg]

  On 05/01/2023 at 08:06, Pamplemousse said:

Cowley brothers to come in next

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Genuinely, that wouldn't be any worse, and Jones is on their level. Scary. 

[Mr X]

  On 05/01/2023 at 08:13, Saint NL said:

I genuinely can't believe I woke up and he's not been sacked overnight. 

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Really you honestly thought a team with a history of not acting soon enough were going to See sense? 

[AlexLaw76]

  On 05/01/2023 at 07:46, The Cat said:

I can think of 2 times that Everton have already dispensed with a manager and employed someone from the Championship.

Moyes from Preston. Worked pretty well. Lampard from Derby, not so much.

Appointing a manager from the Championship isn't necessarily a bad decision. Appointing the wrong one is.

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Lampard was the Chelsea manager, right?

[saints-cris]

He should have been given his P45 after last night just on that performance alone, and that's disregarding the abomination that were the last couple of performances. whilst getting rid of Ralph was the correct one, I'd have backed him to get 4 pts from Brighton, Fulham and Forest. He tended to get just about enough to get by. That, last night, was one of the worst PL performances I've seen us put out. 

The team selections, playing 5-3-2 which doesn't suit us what so ever, lumping it up to 5'8 Adams whilst moaning we arent a big team. The player selections, Mara suddenly comes in from nowhere, Lyanco being allowed near the first 11 despite the glaring warning signs that he's a walking catastrophe, Moi still playing every minute, not playing Edozie, Stu or Aribo (basically any creative player) whilst we cant score from open play; all of this tell me he hasn't the faintest f*cking clue what he is doing, what his best team is or how to get us out of it. 

Didn't want him in the first place, don't want him to manage a second longer. Please, SR, put your ego/arrogance aside, admit you got this horribly wrong and get someone in who has the ability to get us a clean sheet for once, before it really is too late. We are almost at that point now.

[Saint NL]

  On 05/01/2023 at 08:20, Mr X said:

Really you honestly thought a team with a history of not acting soon enough were going to See sense? 

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Maybe it was a dream 😥

 

[Pamplemousse]

Being realistic, when do you think the club will sack him?

I think they'll wait until we've done our business in January and if there's no improvement then they'll get rid. If we keep on losing surely something has to give

[kwsaint]

Think that they should sack Jones ASAP - but they won't.  Then get rid of whoever's stupid idea it was to bring him in.

[Saint NL]

I was just saying to my missus that the new series of the Apprentice starts tonight on BBC.

She said why'd you want to watch 12 morons running around aimlessly while getting shouted at by a manager with no clue. Then at the end they point fingers and say "you're fired"?  

Then I remembered, I watched it last night 😥

[Give it to Ron]

  On 05/01/2023 at 08:23, Pamplemousse said:

Being realistic, when do you think the club will sack him?

I think they'll wait until we've done our business in January and if there's no improvement then they'll get rid. If we keep on losing surely something has to give

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After City put 10 past us next week?

[Mr Nimbus]

I am beginning to think, despite having no evidence to prove it, that SR have ran some data analytics and come to the conclusion that 3/5 ATB results in more points per game over the long haul.

I don't know if the stats back that up or if this is just someone clutching at straws to understand the decisions going on right now.

Ralph planned 3/5 ATB all summer and dumped it. NJ is appointed and seems to prefer it at least. There have been mutterings of thats the formation SR want (again I dont know the truth on that)

In terms of Jones, as much as we ay it nonsense etc, you do need a leader people can get behind. He was on a sticky wicket the minute we performed the way we did against Lincoln.

He's out of his depth and needs to go. He won't of course as the powers that be seemingly know best.

Im so so sad about the whole situation. 

[Saint_clark]

  On 04/01/2023 at 23:15, Lord Duckhunter said:

He’s half right. They have been shit all season. There’s a lot of hate for Jones which is understandable, but don’t give the players a free pass. They’re a bunch of fucking tossers. There’s a few hiding, bottling tackles and mincing about. There’s not being good enough, and then there’s not fucking stepping up. I ended up hating the bottle jobs that disgraced the club when Twitchy returned to Fratton that day, and I’m starting to hate some of these cunts. 
 

It is his fault, the buck stops with him. He was handed a bunch of fucking mincers, and they’re still mincing about. He needed to kick a few arses and chuck a few out. Do people think Fat Sam or Dyche would put up with it. No they fucking wouldn’t, but Ralph let them get away with it and now this bloke is too. 

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Yes, but he's been publicly outing the players from day one of stepping through the door. No wonder they aren't playing for him. It's sh*t man management.

 

There's also the fact that he's referring to the team as separate from himself. I bet if we won he would say "we" instead of "they played great, they managed to keep a clean sheet and they scored some great goals".

Edited 5 January, 2023 by Saint_clark

[Chewy]

  On 05/01/2023 at 08:23, Pamplemousse said:

Being realistic, when do you think the club will sack him?

I think they'll wait until we've done our business in January and if there's no improvement then they'll get rid. If we keep on losing surely something has to give

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I think you might be right, but if we lose heavily in the two cup games (a very real possibility) things could happen sooner.

Rasmus won’t want to admit he’s f•cked up but the owners aren’t entirely stupid. Stubborn and unduly hopeful, yes. Completely stupid, no.

I do think any chants at the next games (like when City’s b team score their 4th before half an hour) should be aimed at the board, though. They didn’t sort Ralph sooner, they failed to sign the one player we needed, and they chose Jones. Jones can’t help being sun-standard - everyone has a level. This is entirely on the board.

[Pamplemousse]

  On 05/01/2023 at 08:44, Saint_clark said:

Yes, but he's been publicly outing the players from day one of stepping through the door. No wonder they aren't playing for him. It's sh*t man management.

 

There's also the fact that he's referring to the team as separate from himself. I bet if we won he would say "we" instead of "they played great, they managed to keep a clean sheet and they scored some great goals".

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Last manager I remember doing the 'they' thing was Redknapp

[Bad Wolf]

  On 05/01/2023 at 08:49, Pamplemousse said:

Last manager I remember doing the 'they' thing was Redknapp

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Pardew used to do it a fair amount.

[Tamesaint]

In his interview last night Jones referred to some players " coming back". I guess he is referring to Bednarek (OMG -NO!!!) and Tella. 

If he likes I will drive up to Burnley today and bring Tella back. Anybody to show a spark of pace who knows where the goal is. 

[Pilchards]

  On 05/01/2023 at 09:03, Tamesaint said:

In his interview last night Jones referred to some players " coming back". I guess he is referring to Bednarek (OMG -NO!!!) and Tella. 

If he likes I will drive up to Burnley today and bring Tella back. Anybody to show a spark of pace who knows where the goal is. 

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While your up there pop into B&Q and get him a step ladder as that’s the only way he will touch the ball.

[Bad Wolf]

  On 05/01/2023 at 09:03, Tamesaint said:

In his interview last night Jones referred to some players " coming back". I guess he is referring to Bednarek (OMG -NO!!!) and Tella. 

If he likes I will drive up to Burnley today and bring Tella back. Anybody to show a spark of pace who knows where the goal is. 

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Tella has scored one goal for us and his Championship record isn't as good as Adams and Armstrong. Baffled as to why anyone thinks recalling Tella is the answer. On the bright side, we have a squad of very good Championship players so we should score some goals next season.

[Give it to Ron]

  On 05/01/2023 at 09:07, Bad Wolf said:

Tella has scored one goal for us and his Championship record isn't as good as Adams and Armstrong. Baffled as to why anyone thinks recalling Tella is the answer. On the bright side, we have a squad of very good Championship players so we should score some goals next season.

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I’m baffled as to how anyone thinks he will touch the ball. Hoof chase that as Lyanco smashes it in touch for 10th time!

Edited 5 January, 2023 by Give it to Ron

[hypochondriac]

For me it's not poor results from this squad that mean he should go as he hasn't had long, it's the fact that we look a lot worse than we did under Ralph which I didn't think was even possible. 

[Bad Wolf]

  On 05/01/2023 at 09:14, hypochondriac said:

For me it's not poor results from this squad that mean he should go as he hasn't had long, it's the fact that we look a lot worse than we did under Ralph which I didn't think was even possible. 

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There's every chance that if he gets sacked, we'll be sat there in a month saying "We look worse than we did under Jones"

[Lee On Solent Saint]

  On 05/01/2023 at 09:14, hypochondriac said:

For me it's not poor results from this squad that mean he should go as he hasn't had long, it's the fact that we look a lot worse than we did under Ralph which I didn't think was even possible. 

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Absolutely this. I sat there watching last night completely stunned by the lack of proper tactics. Forest were utterly shit too, neither team should have won that game. To think it was decided by a mistake from one of the worst central defenders ever to play for the club says it all. Watching Jones try to be a manager from the touchline was just embarrassing. 

[ant]

  On 05/01/2023 at 07:53, stknowle said:

One thing I will say in his defence - He IS a miracle worker. He's made us much worse than we were and that is a miracle.

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And he's united the fanbase!

Unanimously against him, sure. But a win's a win at this point.

[Miltonaggro]

  On 05/01/2023 at 09:16, Bad Wolf said:

There's every chance that if he gets sacked, we'll be sat there in a month saying "We look worse than we did under Jones"

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From what I’ve seen there’s very little chance of that. Jones is appalling at every level. I would prefer the seemingly rational and organised Selles over Jones all day long. Selles in and then look to bring in an experienced manager to train this squad, and go down with some fight and dignity would probably be the best we can hope for now. 

[hypochondriac]

  On 05/01/2023 at 09:16, Bad Wolf said:

There's every chance that if he gets sacked, we'll be sat there in a month saying "We look worse than we did under Jones"

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Genuinely not sure how a team of limited professional players with some talent could look worse than they currently are. I think it would be a challenge to make it any worse short of playing them all out of position. 

[Whitey Grandad]

  On 05/01/2023 at 08:22, saints-cris said:

He should have been given his P45 after last night just on that performance alone, and that's disregarding the abomination that were the last couple of performances. whilst getting rid of Ralph was the correct one, I'd have backed him to get 4 pts from Brighton, Fulham and Forest. He tended to get just about enough to get by. That, last night, was one of the worst PL performances I've seen us put out. 

The team selections, playing 5-3-2 which doesn't suit us what so ever, lumping it up to 5'8 Adams whilst moaning we arent a big team. The player selections, Mara suddenly comes in from nowhere, Lyanco being allowed near the first 11 despite the glaring warning signs that he's a walking catastrophe, Moi still playing every minute, not playing Edozie, Stu or Aribo (basically any creative player) whilst we cant score from open play; all of this tell me he hasn't the faintest f*cking clue what he is doing, what his best team is or how to get us out of it. 

Didn't want him in the first place, don't want him to manage a second longer. Please, SR, put your ego/arrogance aside, admit you got this horribly wrong and get someone in who has the ability to get us a clean sheet for once, before it really is too late. We are almost at that point now.

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Nutshell 

[disconnect]

What happened to Selles? Very highly rated progressive coach, who now seems to have taken a bit of a backseat to Jones and his team. Is Selles still quite heavily involved? 

[saintant]

  On 05/01/2023 at 00:51, Dragon_man said:

I don't think he'll be fired.

SR's stubbornness will see them give him well into next season to get results.

Trouble is, I, and I suspect most of the fans, don't see him as a Championship winning manager. I don't have the confidence he'll get us promoted next season. It's not just his football style, its his presence, image, the way he talks, how comes across etc. None of it cries 'winner or premiership level'.

Another manager now won't save us this year, but they could get half a season to get ready for next season's promotion push.

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They will be forced to sack him for two reasons, 1) if results and performances continue their credibility will be zero and Dragan will either sack them and Jones or insist they sort their shit out and 2) the fans and players will not tolerate it - imagine how many wouldn't renew season tickets with this clown still in charge.

[Whitey Grandad]

  On 05/01/2023 at 09:16, Bad Wolf said:

There's every chance that if he gets sacked, we'll be sat there in a month saying "We look worse than we did under Jones"

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Not possible 

[badgerx16]

By the time we play Everton his record will almost certainly be played 7, lost 6, won 1( scabbily against Lincoln ).Losing at Goodison look a certainty, but there would still be half a season to play- sack him now, find a caretaker for the 2 cup games ( which we will lose if he is in charge so makes no difference ), new competent and experienced PL manager in for Everton. Even Dyche would do, given the alternative is keeping NJ.

[Bad Wolf]

  On 05/01/2023 at 09:24, disconnect said:

What happened to Selles? Very highly rated progressive coach, who now seems to have taken a bit of a backseat to Jones and his team. Is Selles still quite heavily involved? 

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He was sat on his tablet on the occasion I saw him last night. Presumably looking at tactics but he could have easily been playing Tetris or catching up with Corrie. Speaking of which, I noticed the other day that Spider's racist mate Griff looks a bit like NJ. Fun times.

[Bad Wolf]

  On 05/01/2023 at 09:27, Whitey Grandad said:

Not possible 

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Course it is. We could have lost 9-0 again last night with 5 own goals and no corners, shots and only 1% possession.