Nathan Jones tactics

[stevy777_x]

From what I have seen so far, it seems work over the last 5 weeks has resolved around:

- Setting up with 3 at the back. This was a NJ trait at Luton so no surprise he has tried it here, to try and make us defensively more secure

—>I hope we haven’t done just this, with him basically making the same mistake as Ralph during this summer’s pre season. Let s see how we align against but it doesn’t bode well for next few games.

- Being way more direct which resolves around center backs pumping long balls to the forwards and getting the midfielders close so we can win the second balls.

You could see us training for it in the training clips we saw and we used it a lot during the Lincoln game.

—> this is unattractive as fuck and will soon get the fans moaning and getting on the team’s back. Time will tell if it is efficient in matches but pumping the ball to Adam Armstrong who is the smallest guy on the pitch isn’t exactly a smart tactic so we will probably bring in a tall forward to do this on top of Che Adams.
 

Overall it doesn’t bode well, its early doors so hard to make a judgement but i’m not feeling at all going into our most important run of games this season.

Anyone seeing positives things coming from tactics we have seen thus far?

 

[Lord Duckhunter]

Fuck me, 2 games, one of which came a couple of days after he started and the other in a cup that nobody takes seriously until later rounds. 

[Miltonaggro]

I doubt that Jones knows what his tactics will be to honest, he's got to see these players in competitive games at this level.  He should see what we all have seen over several seasons relatively quickly.  Can't see three at the back enduring as we don't have the midfield to exploit that and unless we sign a Pelle quality target man the long ball won't work with an apathetic midget on the end of it.  Not great that he will be learning and adapting on the hoof but that's on Sports Republic, along with much else.

[woodsaint1]

2 hours ago, stevy777_x said:

From what I have seen so far, it seems work over the last 5 weeks has resolved around:

- Setting up with 3 at the back. This was a NJ trait at Luton so no surprise he has tried it here, to try and make us defensively more secure

—>I hope we haven’t done just this, with him basically making the same mistake as Ralph during this summer’s pre season. Let s see how we align against but it doesn’t bode well for next few games.

- Being way more direct which resolves around center backs pumping long balls to the forwards and getting the midfielders close so we can win the second balls.

You could see us training for it in the training clips we saw and we used it a lot during the Lincoln game.

—> this is unattractive as fuck and will soon get the fans moaning and getting on the team’s back. Time will tell if it is efficient in matches but pumping the ball to Adam Armstrong who is the smallest guy on the pitch isn’t exactly a smart tactic so we will probably bring in a tall forward to do this on top of Che Adams.
 

Overall it doesn’t bode well, its early doors so hard to make a judgement but i’m not feeling at all going into our most important run of games this season.

Anyone seeing positives things coming from tactics we have seen thus far?

 

You're right, so I'll reserve judgement until we've played 5/6 more games

[FarehamSaintJames]

A lot on here judged him before his appointment, a lot judged him during the World Cup prior to a ball being kicked, and the same numpties since the Lincoln game are crying “I TOLD YOU SO”.

I’ll judge him after a run of games and after he’s made some squad changes. But judging by some of his subs he’s probably already Sussex out that Djenepo, Mara etc are not up to it.

[captainchris]

58 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

A lot on here judged him before his appointment, a lot judged him during the World Cup prior to a ball being kicked, and the same numpties since the Lincoln game are crying “I TOLD YOU SO”.

I’ll judge him after a run of games and after he’s made some squad changes. But judging by some of his subs he’s probably already Sussex out that Djenepo, Mara etc are not up to it.

Thought Djenepo did well when he came in actually….Plus Mara cannot be  as bad as AA that would be impossible  - Wouldn’t it …..?

[Charlie Wayman]

Should that have read Nathan Jones's Tic Tacs?

[Saint86]

14 hours ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

A lot on here judged him before his appointment, a lot judged him during the World Cup prior to a ball being kicked, and the same numpties since the Lincoln game are crying “I TOLD YOU SO”.

Pendant alarm - Nathan Jones took control of the team before the world Cup and managed the side vs Liverpool. Therefore a ball had been kicked... 

Regardless, I can certainly see the points Steve (OP) has made above, and there are some concerning signs early doors. 

The reality is Ralph was failed on the recruitment front but would likely have kept us up if backed with a good striker/CAM in Jan. I'd go so far as to say that if we had signed a quality striker in the summer (and not had the injuries), that we'd have been pushing top 10 comfortably - even with this young side needing to gel. But alas, we have Che Adams, Adam Armstrong, Walcott and Moi as our main attacking outlets. We all know that without reinforcements, Jones is likely doomed to take us down - hopefully he was insistent on additions as part of taking the job. 

But Ralph is gone and Jones is here now - and he is clearly SR's man. That he's come in and we've gone straight back to the same (I would say doomed) 5-3-2 long ball (bollocks) that Ralph mysteriously started playing in pre season is interesting to me. Could be coincidence, maybe it's the state of the game tactically right now, or maybe it's how SR want us to focus our style and recruitment approach. 

Whatever the reasons, its a style of football that this squad has shown is is deeply unsuited for previously, I have my doubts it will work at this level (or indeed even vs Lincoln), and that the fans surely won't tolerate unless we start winning every game.

I want to say there are mitigations for why we changed our typical style and started with 5 at the back and long ball football at home vs a league 1 side... But there are perilously few legitimate reasons I can come up with for that... And from a manager who said he wouldn't change things too quick as well. So when Steve voices concerns about it - he is not going to be alone... 

Credit to Jones though, he did change it up eventually, and here is to hoping that whatever formation Jones actually settles on is effective at anyrate. I think he's probably a decent manager in the making, but he's going to be up against it at saints - due to the situation we're in, the poor quality attacking options, and the fact that fans will expect a certain style of play from him. 

Looking forward to seeing us against Brighton at anyrate (have missed saints playing regularly even if we have been pretty dire 😂), and I'm curious to see how we set up and how effective we are. 

Edited 23 December, 2022 by Saint86

[ally_uk]

Bunch of melts on here least give the man 10 games 🎮 

[stevy777_x]

27 minutes ago, ally_uk said:

Bunch of melts on here least give the man 10 games 🎮 

Isn t that the main message, we re going to see after a run of games but initial impressions don t bode well.

[StrangelyBrown]

My hope is he's being pragmatic while he's working out how to get the best out of the players at his disposal plus whomever we manage to sign in the window and we'll see something better at the end of January. 

Worst case is the Lincoln performance is as good as it gets, but again my hope is that SR have seen enough to suggest this won't be the case.

He certainly deserves some time to implement his ideas.

[Saint Fan CaM]

I see the situation pretty much exactly the same as the OP, but frankly with less of an impression that anything has changed much. We play a league one side at home and still setup defensively, with build up play that equals watching paint dry as a fast paced sport.  I see other new managers making an immediate impact, bringing in new vigour and dynamic play. My fear that NJ is here to enact the same old ‘Southampton way’ certainly appears to be bearing fruit, but let’s see…he’s got 2-3 games to get it right and not much longer or we’ll be dead certs for relegation by the end of February.

Edited 23 December, 2022 by Saint Fan CaM

[Convict Colony]

tempo and speed of passing forward

[MarkSFC]

Basically the next 7 games;

 

Brighton, Fulham, Forest, Everton, Villa, Brentford, and Wolves will have a huge say in whether we survive or not. 

 

He needs to hit the ground running whilst also strengthening the front line. We probably need 13/14 points at least from those. 

 

So right now I don't give a flying **** how we play, just that we are effective. 

 

🤞🤞🤞🤞

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 23 December, 2022 by MarkSFC

[wild-saint]

My view is that if we continue to push the 3 at the back tactics then we are as good as relegated with the current squad. if he goes with a 4 then i hold out hope that he has enough to get us out of trouble. 

I guarantee if he persists with a 3 and we lose our next 2 home games the supporters will turn on him and the team really quickly. 

[SotonianWill]

1 hour ago, wild-saint said:

My view is that if we continue to push the 3 at the back tactics then we are as good as relegated with the current squad. if he goes with a 4 then i hold out hope that he has enough to get us out of trouble. 

I guarantee if he persists with a 3 and we lose our next 2 home games the supporters will turn on him and the team really quickly. 

5 atb has not suited our teams for years. Think back to a period even under Koeman in which it was tried at Watford away to no avail. Most recognisably it was tried towards the start of 2019/20 leading to the dreaded leicester result. It took us a good few games of being rubbish to realise it did not suit us this season, yet having watched every game this season in the WC break, he goes with this formation against a league one team? Makes no sense, but when he goes to 4 atb we will be all good. Hopefully.

[manji]

23 hours ago, stevy777_x said:

From what I have seen so far, it seems work over the last 5 weeks has resolved around:

- Setting up with 3 at the back. This was a NJ trait at Luton so no surprise he has tried it here, to try and make us defensively more secure

—>I hope we haven’t done just this, with him basically making the same mistake as Ralph during this summer’s pre season. Let s see how we align against but it doesn’t bode well for next few games.

- Being way more direct which resolves around center backs pumping long balls to the forwards and getting the midfielders close so we can win the second balls.

You could see us training for it in the training clips we saw and we used it a lot during the Lincoln game.

—> this is unattractive as fuck and will soon get the fans moaning and getting on the team’s back. Time will tell if it is efficient in matches but pumping the ball to Adam Armstrong who is the smallest guy on the pitch isn’t exactly a smart tactic so we will probably bring in a tall forward to do this on top of Che Adams.
 

Overall it doesn’t bode well, its early doors so hard to make a judgement but i’m not feeling at all going into our most important run of games this season.

Anyone seeing positives things coming from tactics we have seen thus far?

 

“soon get the fans moaning and getting on the team’s back.” Soon ? All I see on here is moaning.

[derry]

Firstly let me say against Lincoln The 69% possession came at a cost with the defenders and midfield indulging themselves in absolute garbage sideway and backwards putting up the percentage figures but often eventually giving the ball away and causing us problems caught on the break. If people are looking for a passing game this garbage isn't it. Lavia showed the way, win the ball and make incisive forward passes to attacking players breaking quickly and attacking the space behind defenders. The long ball wasn't a first reaction it was mostly because we were going backwards being pressed and eventually hitting it long.

I have Adam Armstrong hiding whilst low on confidence. He needs taking out of the line and given a few games in the B team to try and rebuild his confidence, better still if he's that fragile try and swop him for Brereton with Blackburn. AMN was hopeless in possession and lethargic, better at fullback. I'm not a fan of Lyanco, I find him erratic and gives away too many fouls together with being caught in possession. Better he hits it long than being caught and giving goals away. I see KWP, BC, MS and Perrault as our best four. I don't like the way we play with three centre backs but if they do then CC rather than Lyanco. 

If Lavia isn't available maybe we should forget playing a holding midfelder unless maybe CC could sit in front of the back four or just play three midfielders, maybe JWP between Stuart Armstrong and Aribo with Edozie behind Adams and Mara. I'm wondering if Lyanco could play alongside Adams as another physical presence pending a proper striker touch wood. I'm not a fan of Djenepo, Diallo or Elyounoussi either.

We have to get back to basics and make results all important. Playing Kamikaze in front of our own goal is a nightmare waiting to happen. If that means early long balls into a pushed up defence then so be it.

[woodsaint1]

Hopefully after the next 8-10 games we'll be seeing plenty of the 'happy to be proved wrong' posts from the usual suspects saving face. The window is critical. We arent staying up with Che Adams and AA as our striking options regardless who is charge

[fanimal]

Could we really play Lyanco as a Micky Evans number 9??

[Andrew Watson]

Unfortunately Dave D you talk far too much sense for many on here. As for the clowns running the club. Saddens me greatly to see that we are heading for total disaster under this clueless regime and untried top flight management.

[Dark Munster]

4 hours ago, fanimal said:

Could we really play Lyanco as a Micky Evans number 9??

He'd be more like a Guido Carrillo number 9.

[pimpin4rizeal]

I think we should give Jones a chance with the 3412 if that’s what he wants to use. It’s a formation he used a lot at Luton so I’m up for letting him play this if it’s his way ..

I actually think this formation is absolutely tailor made for Stuart Armstrong as a central playmaker/10 like absolutely ideal for him.. he good carrying the ball forward pretty intelligent And can also make late runs into the box and has a shot on him… 

so if we gonna roll with this formation Armstrong could really benefit 

[david in sweden]

On 24/12/2022 at 22:44, fanimal said:

Could we really play Lyanco as a Micky Evans number 9??

I might see Lyanco as ...the new Romeu. 

[aintforever]

On 25/12/2022 at 02:15, pimpin4rizeal said:

I think we should give Jones a chance with the 3412 if that’s what he wants to use. It’s a formation he used a lot at Luton so I’m up for letting him play this if it’s his way ..

I actually think this formation is absolutely tailor made for Stuart Armstrong as a central playmaker/10 like absolutely ideal for him.. he good carrying the ball forward pretty intelligent And can also make late runs into the box and has a shot on him… 

so if we gonna roll with this formation Armstrong could really benefit 

Agree. He is the one player we have who could give us the creativity we need.