Summary from a Luton fan

[Bad Wolf]

Here's a summary of our new manager from a Luton supporter that I found on Reddit. I thought it deserved it's own thread since this must have taken him ages to write up and the effort he's put in here is incredible...

 

Hi guys. On another thread I mentioned writing a post about what Nathan Jones has done to Luton Town since he first came in early 2016, including his tactics, recruitment policies, and player development strategies. While I can't say NJ is the perfect manager, he is certainly a capable tactician, and is well aware of his own shortcomings as well as being able to stick to a tight budget. This is a much longer post than I anticipated so the last section acts as a TL:DR so just scroll to that if you're short of time or can't be bothered to read the rest.

His Time at Luton

I think it's important to talk about his whole, albeit relatively short, managerial career in order to understand more about him both as a coach and as a person. In a nutshell, NJ took a team floundering in mid-table of League Two, to a Championship Play-off semi-final, whilst working with the smallest budget in the second tier. That's the real headline, but what's more impressive is the long-term culture transformation he instilled along the way.

NJ took over with the club in 15th in League Two, and slowly but surely slipping back to non-league where we'd been just two seasons prior. His only managerial experience to date was a brief stint as a caretaker at then-Championship Brighton & Hove Albion, so some questions were understandably asked of the board as to why we've recruited a manager with no experience at this level to steer us from danger - not a dissimilar situation to what you guys find yourself in. The less old-fashioned of us, however, saw an extremely ambitious man who lives and breathes football.

The squad at the time was full of lower-league unambitious journeymen with a few very overpaid luxury players such as Craig Mackail-Smith, Josh McQuoid, and Danny Green. NJ solidified us in the last half of the season, finishing a respectable 11th place finish. The following summer, we said goodbye to the majority of the players that lifted the club from non-league obscurity, as NJ brutally cleared the squad of the old heads that were not fit for a club that he said "will be back in the Championship in a few years". Our fans were upset and confused by some, as fan favourites Alex Lawless, Paul Benson, Matt Robinson (now grime artist Kamakaze), and Jake Howells were released. Doubters were soon silenced when NJ brought in, among others, three excellent additions in Glen Rea (still with us), Alan Sheehan (now a first team coach), and club hero Danny Hylton. We finished 4th, ending the season with a heart-breaking play-off loss to Blackpool.

It was clear now, after 18 months what NJ was doing. The team was now playing a high-pressing, intense style of football, with lots of goals while being relatively solid too. Our young players were also playing very well, handing James Justin his debut, with ex-Hammers Pelly-Ruddock Mpanzu and Dan Potts, who are both first-team players for us 5 years later, improving game-by-game. He further enhanced the squad with some extremely shrewd Moneyball-esque signings in future top-scorer James Collins and marauding fullback Jack Stacey, who we'd sell to Bournemouth a few years later for many millions.

Nothing so far is TOO remarkable, and you might be wondering why I'm telling you all this, but stick with me as it will all tie in. Our first season in League One went on to be our last, with the club achieving back-to-back promotion by absolutely walking the league. Why? A combination of more outstanding recruitment and tactics from NJ. He'd sign five players, who all played a crucial part, and prove to be some of the most important players, in our modern history: Matty Pearson and Sonny Bradley forged the best centre back partnership I've ever seen us have with the latter still our captain, Andy Shinnie, a Championship-level number 10 dubbed "Shinniesta" (enough said), George Moncur, who scored an incredible late free kick to beat Portsmouth (I know how you feel about them) 3-2 in what turned out to be our turning-point game, and Kazenga LuaLua whose importance will be mentioned later.

It is worth mentioning that NJ left for Stoke about halfway through this season, but his philosophy was so ingrained in the players that our caretaker manager and club icon Mick Harford had very little actual management to do - his words not mine - as the team walked to the League One title at the first time of asking, scoring 90 goals and not losing a single home game. But what were these tactics and philosophies? Now this is where it becomes relevant to Southampton, and I'll talk more about his second stint with us later. Also, hopefully now you've learned that NJ's eye for talent, both in terms of recruitment and getting the most out of a player, is exceptional.

Jones' Beloved Diamond

NJ's favourite tactic at his first stint with us was a 4-4-2 diamond, which relied very heavily on capable fullbacks, as James Justin and Jack Stacey's future price tags would prove. First, I'll show you how we lined up and how I imagine he'd line you up with it moving forward, but bear in mind that I am not 100% sure he'll play this as it didn't work at Stoke and he hasn't played it much with us in the Championship (he says our budget forces us to play a back 3). We played:

Shea

Stacey - Pearson - Bradley - Justin

Rea

Mpanzu - Berry

Lee

Cornick - Collins

If I had to translate that with your players, entirely like-for-like purely in terms of position, profile, and play-style, it would be:

Bazunu

Livramento - Bella-Kotchap - Salisu - Larios

Maitland-Niles

Lavia - Ward-Prowse

Aribo

A. Amrstrong - Adams

The tactic really lies with the ability of the single defensive midfielder to sit deep and help the centre backs out as much as possible while the full backs push forward, essentially creating a sort of 3-5-2. Larios and Livramento would be perfect for NJ, and he'd relish the chance to develop them further. I also wouldn't be surprised to see Djenepo on the left-hand side as he likes an inverted wing back occasionally. Walker-Peters would also be absolutely fine either side of that back four. Maitland-Niles, while not flashy, would do a fine job sweeping up loose midfield balls and dropping between centre backs.

In terms of advanced midfielders, the key in distribution. Diagonal balls, internal triangles, arriving late into the area... these are all things NJ would require from the three in front of the defensive midfielder. In my opinion, Ward-Prowse and Lavia are two standouts in your team, and would be absolutely perfectly suited to this system. An attacking midfielder with luxury traits and flair, who can arrive well for chances in the box, is what is needed too, and Aribo ticks those boxes well.

Strikers are going to be your most difficult spot to fill, in my opinion. In this particular formation, NJ would need a pure poacher (your version of Collins), but I don't think you have anyone. For now, Adams or maybe Mara could do a job but long term he'll look to buy a taller striker. Otherwise, he'll play a greyhound-like player to press defenders and make runs in the channels - enter Adam Armstrong. He isn't the best goal scorer at Premier League level, but neither is Cornick for us but he was very important.

Jones will need time to implement anything close to the success we had with this tactic, but the basic idea is very simple, and with the players you have in your squad, he's bound to make something work whether it's this or another tactic I'll go through soon.

The Elephant in the Room

NJ had two seasons (well, technically 1.5) of success with his diamond, achieving automatic promotion both times. However, he couldn't get it to work at Stoke City, which he know blames on the attitude of the players he had at his disposal and the general atmosphere at the club. He clearly didn't have time to bring in the players he wanted. It's hard to defend his time at Stoke, but I truly believe his time there is misunderstood, and the failure overstated.

NJ left us in a promotion spot in January 2019 for Stoke, who offered him a huge financial package that he'd have been stupid to turn down. At the time, our board were very angry with the way both Stoke and NJ went about the deal, something that they've praised about the Saints' approach thus far. NJ said he regrets the decision and has grown as a person as a result, vowing to never repeat the same mistake. This suggests two things which I think are valuable to you lot: 1) he will only leave for a convincing and ambitious project, reinforced by his post-match interview last night; and 2) his professionalism and cooperation with the club hierarchy has grown on a personal level, which is something any Luton fan can anecdotally attest to as well. He clearly thinks the board at Southampton have a clear vision in mind and will give him the time that Stoke didn't, otherwise he wouldn't be entertaining the proposition.

At Stoke, NJ's team struggled for goals, and they drew most of their games. They weren't as bad as people make out, and even if they were, it was hardly NJ's fault, evident by the failures of their managers since. The Stoke job is a poisoned chalice right now, and has been since their relegation from the Premier League. I implore you guys to not get too hung up on that blip in his career, for your own sake and his.

The Great Escape and the Dawn of the Back Five

Our first season back in the Championship was a disaster, replacing Nathan Jones with Graeme Jones, but he was nothing like his namesake. He was stubborn and moody, tactically over-ambitious, awful with both the players, fans, and the media, terrible with recruitment, and was on course to drag us right back down again. He, unlike his predecessor, couldn't translate his coaching skills into a managerial role.

When Covid-19 struck, so did we, sacking Graeme Jones and bringing back NJ to the dismay of many of our fans. Luckily for NJ, the lockdown meant the fans couldn't get on his back as we completed what we call the "Great Escape". NJ had nine games to keep us up, with us sitting five points adrift on his return. Not only did he do so, losing just one game in this time, we actually finished a respectable 19th. NJ reinstated his remaining League One favourites who Graeme Jones had frozen out, including Elliot Lee, Luke Berry, and Kazenga LuaLua who I mentioned earlier and who scored a screamer against Hull which essentially kept us in the league. In fact, only one of the 12 goals we scored in the escape was by a player NJ DIDN'T sign (Callum McManaman).

NJ had come back and relit the fire that he himself put out. The fans were back on his side, while the board the players never even left his side. This is something you'll learn, he has a knack of getting the players to die for him. He says it all the time in his interviews - our squad will do whatever is necessary to win, whether it's playing whilst unfit or playing out of position, it's just the atmosphere he creates within the squad. It's so evident because we still have some of the League Two signings in our squad today, playing way beyond their natural level through sheer effort and determination. Fans of other clubs in the league refer to us as "passion merchants" all the time.

This isn't the only reason we punch above out weight, though. A lot of it is down to NJ's new favourite tactic which is well-suited to underdogs where raw talent won't suffice - a similar situation to what you guys find yourselves in this season. Brace yourselves... it's a route one back five. Yep, a total departure from the free-flowing diamond mentioned earlier. But it's a testament to NJ's versatility and willingness to try whatever it takes to get results. In truth, it's what I imagine he'll initially set up with while you're in a relegation scrap in order to pick up the odd point against the bigger sides. It works for us, trust me. Here's what we played last season, at its peak:

Steer

Burke - Bradley - Naismith

Bree - Mpanzu - Lansbury - Campbell - Bell

Cornick - Adebayo

Seems simple, but it isn't really. It's lopsided, with the right-hand side pushing a lot further forward than the left. The left centre back is required to have excellent long ball-playing ability, something we've lacked since we lost Naismith. The right wing back and right centre back will both step forward while the left wing back supports the defenders. The middle central midfielder will typically sit deep whilst the other two essentially free-roam, collecting loose balls and playing them forward for Adebayo to knock down. Simple on paper, but require insane levels of fitness in practice, which I don't think will be a problem for you as your squad seems fit enough for sure. Here's how I think it translates:

Bazunu

Bella-Kotchap - Caleta-Car - Salisu

Livramento - Lavia - Ward-Prowse - Aribo - Perraud

Adams - *new striker*

NJ will buy a tall striker in the next available opportunity. He really needs someone 6'2"+ to knock it down in this system, and frankly I'm not sure you've got anyone cut out for it currently. I've put Perraud in as he is more physical than Larios. I've also got Ward-Prowse sitting deep, essentially playing like a deep-lying playmaker. Kiernan Dewsbury-Hall played that role for us two season ago, so think how he plays at Leicester for comparison.

You may have noticed a lack of wingers in both formations, and you'd be correct to have done. He doesn't like them, frankly. Any winger you have will be converted to either a striker, a midfielder, or a fullback, else they'll be gone. I can see him playing Elyounoussi, S. Armstrong, and Edozie as attacking midfielders to some capacity, while Djenepo would make a good wing back under NJ, but he'll have no use for Walcott or Tella when he returns.

In All, This is What to Expect (TL:DR)

Right, so that's his tactics done and why he came to play them, so here is some more quickfire what to expect:

Positives:

Will get the most out of players already at the club as long as they are humble enough to be played in unconventional roles

Will relish the opportunity to work with and improve raw talents like Small, Larios, Mara, Livramento, and Smallbone in particular (as these guys' profiles resemble what he'll want in his ideal diamond tactic)

Will relay as much passion as the fans give him, unequivocally

Will adapt tactics both in game and long-term if it isn't working - something he's learned from his notoriously stubborn tenure at Stoke

Will recruit outstandingly if given leeway and freedom in the market - signings that seem unusual tend to turn out the best.

Will improve the ambition of the squad if they buy into his vision.

Negatives:

Media-handling; the rest of the league's fans will loathe him, but you'll love him for it as it creates a great us-against-the-world mentality which ultimately wins game

Has his favourites; rewarding loyalty is often a double-edged sword and is sometimes hesitant to acknowledge when a good servant is in bad form. He's also very data driven so will continue to play players who aren't meeting the eye-test or pleasing fans if their data is okay

He'll sell your wingers if they can't prove to be adaptable to his full back-based systems

Youth development is something he doesn't really consider that much, though this might be because our academy is years behind the first team. He considers 23 and 24 year olds as "youngsters" and will often only give them odd minutes.

Doesn't take the domestic cups seriously, though he might at a club that actually has a chance of progressing past the early rounds like Southampton have.

Sorry for the long post guys but I hope it gives you a good understanding as to why he's absolutely worshipped at Luton Town. He's brought great success to us while galvanising the fan base and making us believe we can be a serious club again. He also fixed us financially and instilled a permanent transfer policy of developing under-utilised raw talent and developing them. Please give him a chance, he's a difficult character but the guy bleeds passion and will die for Southampton to do well, no matter the adversity. Thanks for reading and good luck for the season, we'll all be rooting for you from Bedfordshire.

EDIT: How could I forget his PowerPoints?! When he wants a player, he invited them to the training ground and shows them a PowerPoint presentation about where the club will be in x amount of years, and a detailed plan for their individual development. It's often joked about, but it really works and many of our signings have credited his presentations as the main reason they signed!

EDIT 2: Cheers for the comments guys, I'm glad I've reassured some of you that the appointment is better than it may seem. Please take this post with a pinch of salt though, he might surprise us and change it up completely. He may also fail miserably, I'm not a mystic just a fan. Also, please stop awarding this post, it's appreciated but really not necessary. I'm not even sure what they mean but apparently they cost money so please don't do that!

[Toadhall Saint]

Excellent- thanks for posting 

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Thanks for taking the time to give so much info. Good Luck 

[Saint Billy]

Thank you. 

[Sheaf Saint]

Cheers for this. Makes me a little more optimistic that this could be a masterstroke.

There does appear to be a glaring contradiction in his post though. One one hand he says NJ will relish the chance to develop raw talents, but then further down he says that he's really not big on youth development. So which is it? I'm sure this will have been discussed with SR because a manager who will work with and develop the youngsters would surely have been a pre-requisite in their search to replace Ralph.

Edited 10 November, 2022 by Sheaf Saint

[Saint86]

Very interesting post, tallies up well with other analyses of his tactical set up and management style. I think he'll prove a good appointment - but not without good attacking additions.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

Most interesting point for me is that although he played hoofball with Luton in the Championship, that wasn't always the case 

[revolution saint]

Yep, good post and thanks for sharing.  I think my biggest worry is that he tends to be quite direct and we don't have the players to do that, and I don't think it's that effective at premier league level either.  

Have to say that pressing in and of itself isn't really enough.  Pretty much all teams do it to an extent but there needs to be something else and can't just be a case of hoping to force an error.

Least he's got the WC break to get a pretty good idea of what he's dealing with and, with any luck, SR will back him in January. 

[waterlooville saint]

Read the original post of this on Reddit via Facebook earlier today and thought it was very insightful.

[Saint Garrett]

Very insightful post, cheers for posting.

We don't really have "wingers" apart from maybe Edozie, so that's not a problem. 3 at the back long ball will be interesting though, and it's not what the fans will want to see, so if he does employ those tactics, I can see a lot of unhappy fans unless it gets us results. 

28 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

 I think my biggest worry is that he tends to be quite direct and we don't have the players to do that, and I don't think it's that effective at premier league level either.  

To this point, Newcastle went from being a soft passing team, to a physical long ball team with only a few additions so maybe we'll see that. The majority of their success is getting the ball into the other half and then winning it back up there, maybe we'll see similar tactics from Jones.

Regardless of manager and tactics though, we are going to struggle to stay in this league if we cannot score goals and keep clean sheets. It's basic maths !

[Bad Wolf]

Does anyone actually genuine prioritise attractive football over results? Genuine question; It's not wrong because if you pay your money to go and support the team, you can prioritise what you like, it's entirely your purgative, I'm just curious if anyone would actually be unhappy should we play his alleged hoofball, win a trophy and have a European run and would prefer to play beautiful, high press football and be relegated?

 

[Saint Fan CaM]

Good useful summary, although it’s strange to read that he’s not interested in playing youth under 23 years - can’t believe Saints Board went for that with reliance we place on players 19-22y!

[Wade Garrett]

I would welcome us being a bit more direct.

Our possession based game does little to put the opposition on the back foot.  It’s too slow, and most of the time, too negative.  I also think it allows some of our players to ‘cheat’ - often taking the easy option of a sideways/backwards pass instead of playing on the half-turn and trying to drive us forward.

I hope he gets inside JWP’s head and gets him a more attacking mindset.

 

[Bad Wolf]

Just now, Wade Garrett said:

I would welcome us being a bit more direct.

Our possession based game does little to put the opposition on the back foot.  It’s too slow, and most of the time, too negative.  I also think it allows some of our players to ‘cheat’ - often taking the easy option of a sideways/backwards pass instead of playing on the half-turn and trying to drive us forward.

I hope he gets inside JWP’s head and gets him a more attacking mindset.

 

All about stats these days so that everyone can marvel at how so and so completed more passes than anyone in the league at the weekend, even though they were all to someone right next to him.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

16 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

Does anyone actually genuine prioritise attractive football over results? Genuine question; It's not wrong because if you pay your money to go and support the team, you can prioritise what you like, it's entirely your purgative, I'm just curious if anyone would actually be unhappy should we play his alleged hoofball, win a trophy and have a European run and would prefer to play beautiful, high press football and be relegated?

 

I'd rather we stick to a specific set of principles of playing an attractive blend of attacking football that unites us as fans. It's obvious we are a million miles away from that at present, so I guess this season is now all about staying up, now matter how this is achieved. 

[Ex Lion Tamer]

30 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

Does anyone actually genuine prioritise attractive football over results? Genuine question; It's not wrong because if you pay your money to go and support the team, you can prioritise what you like, it's entirely your purgative, I'm just curious if anyone would actually be unhappy should we play his alleged hoofball, win a trophy and have a European run and would prefer to play beautiful, high press football and be relegated?

 

It's not so much about whether I want to watch it as whether it will work in the Premier League. If it is done in a sophisticated way then fine by me. To be fair, it sounds like he knows how to set up a press so he's not just a Barry Fry type

[Saint Garrett]

1 hour ago, Bad Wolf said:

Does anyone actually genuine prioritise attractive football over results? Genuine question; It's not wrong because if you pay your money to go and support the team, you can prioritise what you like, it's entirely your purgative, I'm just curious if anyone would actually be unhappy should we play his alleged hoofball, win a trophy and have a European run and would prefer to play beautiful, high press football and be relegated?

 

No, but if we play long ball, and it doesnt work, fans will turn on him very quickly IMO. If you can see what he's trying to build long term, fans will have a bit more patience. Of course at the end of the day if the team is winning regularly, then no-one cares about the style short term. 

[skintsaint]

eh? Stopped reading after this to be fair. 

[Colinjb]

Extremely grateful for the insight. Actually quite reassuring.

[DT]

3 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

Here's a summary of our new manager from a Luton supporter that I found on Reddit. I thought it deserved it's own thread since this must have taken him ages to write up and the effort he's put in here is incredible...

 

Hi guys. On another thread I mentioned writing a post about what Nathan Jones has done to Luton Town since he first came in early 2016, including his tactics, recruitment policies, and player development strategies. While I can't say NJ is the perfect manager, he is certainly a capable tactician, and is well aware of his own shortcomings as well as being able to stick to a tight budget. This is a much longer post than I anticipated so the last section acts as a TL:DR so just scroll to that if you're short of time or can't be bothered to read the rest.

His Time at Luton

I think it's important to talk about his whole, albeit relatively short, managerial career in order to understand more about him both as a coach and as a person. In a nutshell, NJ took a team floundering in mid-table of League Two, to a Championship Play-off semi-final, whilst working with the smallest budget in the second tier. That's the real headline, but what's more impressive is the long-term culture transformation he instilled along the way.

NJ took over with the club in 15th in League Two, and slowly but surely slipping back to non-league where we'd been just two seasons prior. His only managerial experience to date was a brief stint as a caretaker at then-Championship Brighton & Hove Albion, so some questions were understandably asked of the board as to why we've recruited a manager with no experience at this level to steer us from danger - not a dissimilar situation to what you guys find yourself in. The less old-fashioned of us, however, saw an extremely ambitious man who lives and breathes football.

The squad at the time was full of lower-league unambitious journeymen with a few very overpaid luxury players such as Craig Mackail-Smith, Josh McQuoid, and Danny Green. NJ solidified us in the last half of the season, finishing a respectable 11th place finish. The following summer, we said goodbye to the majority of the players that lifted the club from non-league obscurity, as NJ brutally cleared the squad of the old heads that were not fit for a club that he said "will be back in the Championship in a few years". Our fans were upset and confused by some, as fan favourites Alex Lawless, Paul Benson, Matt Robinson (now grime artist Kamakaze), and Jake Howells were released. Doubters were soon silenced when NJ brought in, among others, three excellent additions in Glen Rea (still with us), Alan Sheehan (now a first team coach), and club hero Danny Hylton. We finished 4th, ending the season with a heart-breaking play-off loss to Blackpool.

It was clear now, after 18 months what NJ was doing. The team was now playing a high-pressing, intense style of football, with lots of goals while being relatively solid too. Our young players were also playing very well, handing James Justin his debut, with ex-Hammers Pelly-Ruddock Mpanzu and Dan Potts, who are both first-team players for us 5 years later, improving game-by-game. He further enhanced the squad with some extremely shrewd Moneyball-esque signings in future top-scorer James Collins and marauding fullback Jack Stacey, who we'd sell to Bournemouth a few years later for many millions.

Nothing so far is TOO remarkable, and you might be wondering why I'm telling you all this, but stick with me as it will all tie in. Our first season in League One went on to be our last, with the club achieving back-to-back promotion by absolutely walking the league. Why? A combination of more outstanding recruitment and tactics from NJ. He'd sign five players, who all played a crucial part, and prove to be some of the most important players, in our modern history: Matty Pearson and Sonny Bradley forged the best centre back partnership I've ever seen us have with the latter still our captain, Andy Shinnie, a Championship-level number 10 dubbed "Shinniesta" (enough said), George Moncur, who scored an incredible late free kick to beat Portsmouth (I know how you feel about them) 3-2 in what turned out to be our turning-point game, and Kazenga LuaLua whose importance will be mentioned later.

It is worth mentioning that NJ left for Stoke about halfway through this season, but his philosophy was so ingrained in the players that our caretaker manager and club icon Mick Harford had very little actual management to do - his words not mine - as the team walked to the League One title at the first time of asking, scoring 90 goals and not losing a single home game. But what were these tactics and philosophies? Now this is where it becomes relevant to Southampton, and I'll talk more about his second stint with us later. Also, hopefully now you've learned that NJ's eye for talent, both in terms of recruitment and getting the most out of a player, is exceptional.

Jones' Beloved Diamond

NJ's favourite tactic at his first stint with us was a 4-4-2 diamond, which relied very heavily on capable fullbacks, as James Justin and Jack Stacey's future price tags would prove. First, I'll show you how we lined up and how I imagine he'd line you up with it moving forward, but bear in mind that I am not 100% sure he'll play this as it didn't work at Stoke and he hasn't played it much with us in the Championship (he says our budget forces us to play a back 3). We played:

Shea

Stacey - Pearson - Bradley - Justin

Rea

Mpanzu - Berry

Lee

Cornick - Collins

If I had to translate that with your players, entirely like-for-like purely in terms of position, profile, and play-style, it would be:

Bazunu

Livramento - Bella-Kotchap - Salisu - Larios

Maitland-Niles

Lavia - Ward-Prowse

Aribo

A. Amrstrong - Adams

The tactic really lies with the ability of the single defensive midfielder to sit deep and help the centre backs out as much as possible while the full backs push forward, essentially creating a sort of 3-5-2. Larios and Livramento would be perfect for NJ, and he'd relish the chance to develop them further. I also wouldn't be surprised to see Djenepo on the left-hand side as he likes an inverted wing back occasionally. Walker-Peters would also be absolutely fine either side of that back four. Maitland-Niles, while not flashy, would do a fine job sweeping up loose midfield balls and dropping between centre backs.

In terms of advanced midfielders, the key in distribution. Diagonal balls, internal triangles, arriving late into the area... these are all things NJ would require from the three in front of the defensive midfielder. In my opinion, Ward-Prowse and Lavia are two standouts in your team, and would be absolutely perfectly suited to this system. An attacking midfielder with luxury traits and flair, who can arrive well for chances in the box, is what is needed too, and Aribo ticks those boxes well.

Strikers are going to be your most difficult spot to fill, in my opinion. In this particular formation, NJ would need a pure poacher (your version of Collins), but I don't think you have anyone. For now, Adams or maybe Mara could do a job but long term he'll look to buy a taller striker. Otherwise, he'll play a greyhound-like player to press defenders and make runs in the channels - enter Adam Armstrong. He isn't the best goal scorer at Premier League level, but neither is Cornick for us but he was very important.

Jones will need time to implement anything close to the success we had with this tactic, but the basic idea is very simple, and with the players you have in your squad, he's bound to make something work whether it's this or another tactic I'll go through soon.

The Elephant in the Room

NJ had two seasons (well, technically 1.5) of success with his diamond, achieving automatic promotion both times. However, he couldn't get it to work at Stoke City, which he know blames on the attitude of the players he had at his disposal and the general atmosphere at the club. He clearly didn't have time to bring in the players he wanted. It's hard to defend his time at Stoke, but I truly believe his time there is misunderstood, and the failure overstated.

NJ left us in a promotion spot in January 2019 for Stoke, who offered him a huge financial package that he'd have been stupid to turn down. At the time, our board were very angry with the way both Stoke and NJ went about the deal, something that they've praised about the Saints' approach thus far. NJ said he regrets the decision and has grown as a person as a result, vowing to never repeat the same mistake. This suggests two things which I think are valuable to you lot: 1) he will only leave for a convincing and ambitious project, reinforced by his post-match interview last night; and 2) his professionalism and cooperation with the club hierarchy has grown on a personal level, which is something any Luton fan can anecdotally attest to as well. He clearly thinks the board at Southampton have a clear vision in mind and will give him the time that Stoke didn't, otherwise he wouldn't be entertaining the proposition.

At Stoke, NJ's team struggled for goals, and they drew most of their games. They weren't as bad as people make out, and even if they were, it was hardly NJ's fault, evident by the failures of their managers since. The Stoke job is a poisoned chalice right now, and has been since their relegation from the Premier League. I implore you guys to not get too hung up on that blip in his career, for your own sake and his.

The Great Escape and the Dawn of the Back Five

Our first season back in the Championship was a disaster, replacing Nathan Jones with Graeme Jones, but he was nothing like his namesake. He was stubborn and moody, tactically over-ambitious, awful with both the players, fans, and the media, terrible with recruitment, and was on course to drag us right back down again. He, unlike his predecessor, couldn't translate his coaching skills into a managerial role.

When Covid-19 struck, so did we, sacking Graeme Jones and bringing back NJ to the dismay of many of our fans. Luckily for NJ, the lockdown meant the fans couldn't get on his back as we completed what we call the "Great Escape". NJ had nine games to keep us up, with us sitting five points adrift on his return. Not only did he do so, losing just one game in this time, we actually finished a respectable 19th. NJ reinstated his remaining League One favourites who Graeme Jones had frozen out, including Elliot Lee, Luke Berry, and Kazenga LuaLua who I mentioned earlier and who scored a screamer against Hull which essentially kept us in the league. In fact, only one of the 12 goals we scored in the escape was by a player NJ DIDN'T sign (Callum McManaman).

NJ had come back and relit the fire that he himself put out. The fans were back on his side, while the board the players never even left his side. This is something you'll learn, he has a knack of getting the players to die for him. He says it all the time in his interviews - our squad will do whatever is necessary to win, whether it's playing whilst unfit or playing out of position, it's just the atmosphere he creates within the squad. It's so evident because we still have some of the League Two signings in our squad today, playing way beyond their natural level through sheer effort and determination. Fans of other clubs in the league refer to us as "passion merchants" all the time.

This isn't the only reason we punch above out weight, though. A lot of it is down to NJ's new favourite tactic which is well-suited to underdogs where raw talent won't suffice - a similar situation to what you guys find yourselves in this season. Brace yourselves... it's a route one back five. Yep, a total departure from the free-flowing diamond mentioned earlier. But it's a testament to NJ's versatility and willingness to try whatever it takes to get results. In truth, it's what I imagine he'll initially set up with while you're in a relegation scrap in order to pick up the odd point against the bigger sides. It works for us, trust me. Here's what we played last season, at its peak:

Steer

Burke - Bradley - Naismith

Bree - Mpanzu - Lansbury - Campbell - Bell

Cornick - Adebayo

Seems simple, but it isn't really. It's lopsided, with the right-hand side pushing a lot further forward than the left. The left centre back is required to have excellent long ball-playing ability, something we've lacked since we lost Naismith. The right wing back and right centre back will both step forward while the left wing back supports the defenders. The middle central midfielder will typically sit deep whilst the other two essentially free-roam, collecting loose balls and playing them forward for Adebayo to knock down. Simple on paper, but require insane levels of fitness in practice, which I don't think will be a problem for you as your squad seems fit enough for sure. Here's how I think it translates:

Bazunu

Bella-Kotchap - Caleta-Car - Salisu

Livramento - Lavia - Ward-Prowse - Aribo - Perraud

Adams - *new striker*

NJ will buy a tall striker in the next available opportunity. He really needs someone 6'2"+ to knock it down in this system, and frankly I'm not sure you've got anyone cut out for it currently. I've put Perraud in as he is more physical than Larios. I've also got Ward-Prowse sitting deep, essentially playing like a deep-lying playmaker. Kiernan Dewsbury-Hall played that role for us two season ago, so think how he plays at Leicester for comparison.

You may have noticed a lack of wingers in both formations, and you'd be correct to have done. He doesn't like them, frankly. Any winger you have will be converted to either a striker, a midfielder, or a fullback, else they'll be gone. I can see him playing Elyounoussi, S. Armstrong, and Edozie as attacking midfielders to some capacity, while Djenepo would make a good wing back under NJ, but he'll have no use for Walcott or Tella when he returns.

In All, This is What to Expect (TL:DR)

Right, so that's his tactics done and why he came to play them, so here is some more quickfire what to expect:

Positives:

Will get the most out of players already at the club as long as they are humble enough to be played in unconventional roles

Will relish the opportunity to work with and improve raw talents like Small, Larios, Mara, Livramento, and Smallbone in particular (as these guys' profiles resemble what he'll want in his ideal diamond tactic)

Will relay as much passion as the fans give him, unequivocally

Will adapt tactics both in game and long-term if it isn't working - something he's learned from his notoriously stubborn tenure at Stoke

Will recruit outstandingly if given leeway and freedom in the market - signings that seem unusual tend to turn out the best.

Will improve the ambition of the squad if they buy into his vision.

Negatives:

Media-handling; the rest of the league's fans will loathe him, but you'll love him for it as it creates a great us-against-the-world mentality which ultimately wins game

Has his favourites; rewarding loyalty is often a double-edged sword and is sometimes hesitant to acknowledge when a good servant is in bad form. He's also very data driven so will continue to play players who aren't meeting the eye-test or pleasing fans if their data is okay

He'll sell your wingers if they can't prove to be adaptable to his full back-based systems

Youth development is something he doesn't really consider that much, though this might be because our academy is years behind the first team. He considers 23 and 24 year olds as "youngsters" and will often only give them odd minutes.

Doesn't take the domestic cups seriously, though he might at a club that actually has a chance of progressing past the early rounds like Southampton have.

Sorry for the long post guys but I hope it gives you a good understanding as to why he's absolutely worshipped at Luton Town. He's brought great success to us while galvanising the fan base and making us believe we can be a serious club again. He also fixed us financially and instilled a permanent transfer policy of developing under-utilised raw talent and developing them. Please give him a chance, he's a difficult character but the guy bleeds passion and will die for Southampton to do well, no matter the adversity. Thanks for reading and good luck for the season, we'll all be rooting for you from Bedfordshire.

EDIT: How could I forget his PowerPoints?! When he wants a player, he invited them to the training ground and shows them a PowerPoint presentation about where the club will be in x amount of years, and a detailed plan for their individual development. It's often joked about, but it really works and many of our signings have credited his presentations as the main reason they signed!

EDIT 2: Cheers for the comments guys, I'm glad I've reassured some of you that the appointment is better than it may seem. Please take this post with a pinch of salt though, he might surprise us and change it up completely. He may also fail miserably, I'm not a mystic just a fan. Also, please stop awarding this post, it's appreciated but really not necessary. I'm not even sure what they mean but apparently they cost money so please don't do that!

superb post. thanks!

[John D]

1 hour ago, Bad Wolf said:

All about stats these days so that everyone can marvel at how so and so completed more passes than anyone in the league at the weekend, even though they were all to someone right next to him.

Certainly is although it is changing - there were players a few years back who identified the data used and manipulated it as you say by playing 5 yard passes or doing random sprints to get their stats up.

Data analytics has improved since then with weighting on effectiveness coming into play.  Still all a load of numbers though which are useless without context  (the headline xGs for Saints and Newcastle last week being prime example)

[Wurzel]

That's a great read. If he doesn't already that guy should be writing for The Athletic.  Assuming it's accurate I can see 2 possible outcomes for us this season, rock bottom or top 10, it's either going to work and work quickly (only a couple of more games before the transfer window to get through) or not at all (and as an eternal optimist I'm going with the top ten).

All that assumes NJ didn't write the article himself of course 🤣

[saintant]

2 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

Does anyone actually genuine prioritise attractive football over results? Genuine question; It's not wrong because if you pay your money to go and support the team, you can prioritise what you like, it's entirely your purgative, I'm just curious if anyone would actually be unhappy should we play his alleged hoofball, win a trophy and have a European run and would prefer to play beautiful, high press football and be relegated?

 

You won't win enough games let alone European runs and trophies by relying on hoofball alone.  Nothing wrong with going long when it suits but it has to be mixed up with other elements at this level. Obviously he will need the club to sanction the signing of a big centre forward who suits this game because we don't have one.  If Jones can do that then I don't think the football will be unattractive and he'll get the fans onside. He has a hard job ahead of him and I think he realises this but he does come across as somebody who is single-minded, passionate, determined and believes in what he's doing. Let's see.

[waylander]

Interesting thoughts, though he seems to have forgotten about KWP

[richardc]

bloody hell this guy picked a better side for us than Ralph and he doesnt even follow saints 

[spyinthesky]

Great read.
One thing that stuck in my mind is the expectation that NJ will look to source a big target man, similar to Pelle perhaps.
I think the side has been crying out for height and physicality upfront for some time.

[Baird of the land]

Very interesting read.

Think our wingers are extremely weak so not overly concerned about that. I would hope he’s wrong about tella as I still think he has would be better than Armstrong as pressing greyhound.

Slight concern would be the comment about view of using youth, but then surely Stacey/Justin were 20ish when he had them.

[Convict Colony]

8 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

Here's a summary of our new manager from a Luton supporter that I found on Reddit. I thought it deserved it's own thread since this must have taken him ages to write up and the effort he's put in here is incredible...

 

Hi guys. On another thread I mentioned writing a post about what Nathan Jones has done to Luton Town since he first came in early 2016, including his tactics, recruitment policies, and player development strategies. While I can't say NJ is the perfect manager, he is certainly a capable tactician, and is well aware of his own shortcomings as well as being able to stick to a tight budget. This is a much longer post than I anticipated so the last section acts as a TL:DR so just scroll to that if you're short of time or can't be bothered to read the rest.

His Time at Luton

I think it's important to talk about his whole, albeit relatively short, managerial career in order to understand more about him both as a coach and as a person. In a nutshell, NJ took a team floundering in mid-table of League Two, to a Championship Play-off semi-final, whilst working with the smallest budget in the second tier. That's the real headline, but what's more impressive is the long-term culture transformation he instilled along the way.

NJ took over with the club in 15th in League Two, and slowly but surely slipping back to non-league where we'd been just two seasons prior. His only managerial experience to date was a brief stint as a caretaker at then-Championship Brighton & Hove Albion, so some questions were understandably asked of the board as to why we've recruited a manager with no experience at this level to steer us from danger - not a dissimilar situation to what you guys find yourself in. The less old-fashioned of us, however, saw an extremely ambitious man who lives and breathes football.

The squad at the time was full of lower-league unambitious journeymen with a few very overpaid luxury players such as Craig Mackail-Smith, Josh McQuoid, and Danny Green. NJ solidified us in the last half of the season, finishing a respectable 11th place finish. The following summer, we said goodbye to the majority of the players that lifted the club from non-league obscurity, as NJ brutally cleared the squad of the old heads that were not fit for a club that he said "will be back in the Championship in a few years". Our fans were upset and confused by some, as fan favourites Alex Lawless, Paul Benson, Matt Robinson (now grime artist Kamakaze), and Jake Howells were released. Doubters were soon silenced when NJ brought in, among others, three excellent additions in Glen Rea (still with us), Alan Sheehan (now a first team coach), and club hero Danny Hylton. We finished 4th, ending the season with a heart-breaking play-off loss to Blackpool.

It was clear now, after 18 months what NJ was doing. The team was now playing a high-pressing, intense style of football, with lots of goals while being relatively solid too. Our young players were also playing very well, handing James Justin his debut, with ex-Hammers Pelly-Ruddock Mpanzu and Dan Potts, who are both first-team players for us 5 years later, improving game-by-game. He further enhanced the squad with some extremely shrewd Moneyball-esque signings in future top-scorer James Collins and marauding fullback Jack Stacey, who we'd sell to Bournemouth a few years later for many millions.

Nothing so far is TOO remarkable, and you might be wondering why I'm telling you all this, but stick with me as it will all tie in. Our first season in League One went on to be our last, with the club achieving back-to-back promotion by absolutely walking the league. Why? A combination of more outstanding recruitment and tactics from NJ. He'd sign five players, who all played a crucial part, and prove to be some of the most important players, in our modern history: Matty Pearson and Sonny Bradley forged the best centre back partnership I've ever seen us have with the latter still our captain, Andy Shinnie, a Championship-level number 10 dubbed "Shinniesta" (enough said), George Moncur, who scored an incredible late free kick to beat Portsmouth (I know how you feel about them) 3-2 in what turned out to be our turning-point game, and Kazenga LuaLua whose importance will be mentioned later.

It is worth mentioning that NJ left for Stoke about halfway through this season, but his philosophy was so ingrained in the players that our caretaker manager and club icon Mick Harford had very little actual management to do - his words not mine - as the team walked to the League One title at the first time of asking, scoring 90 goals and not losing a single home game. But what were these tactics and philosophies? Now this is where it becomes relevant to Southampton, and I'll talk more about his second stint with us later. Also, hopefully now you've learned that NJ's eye for talent, both in terms of recruitment and getting the most out of a player, is exceptional.

Jones' Beloved Diamond

NJ's favourite tactic at his first stint with us was a 4-4-2 diamond, which relied very heavily on capable fullbacks, as James Justin and Jack Stacey's future price tags would prove. First, I'll show you how we lined up and how I imagine he'd line you up with it moving forward, but bear in mind that I am not 100% sure he'll play this as it didn't work at Stoke and he hasn't played it much with us in the Championship (he says our budget forces us to play a back 3). We played:

Shea

Stacey - Pearson - Bradley - Justin

Rea

Mpanzu - Berry

Lee

Cornick - Collins

If I had to translate that with your players, entirely like-for-like purely in terms of position, profile, and play-style, it would be:

Bazunu

Livramento - Bella-Kotchap - Salisu - Larios

Maitland-Niles

Lavia - Ward-Prowse

Aribo

A. Amrstrong - Adams

The tactic really lies with the ability of the single defensive midfielder to sit deep and help the centre backs out as much as possible while the full backs push forward, essentially creating a sort of 3-5-2. Larios and Livramento would be perfect for NJ, and he'd relish the chance to develop them further. I also wouldn't be surprised to see Djenepo on the left-hand side as he likes an inverted wing back occasionally. Walker-Peters would also be absolutely fine either side of that back four. Maitland-Niles, while not flashy, would do a fine job sweeping up loose midfield balls and dropping between centre backs.

In terms of advanced midfielders, the key in distribution. Diagonal balls, internal triangles, arriving late into the area... these are all things NJ would require from the three in front of the defensive midfielder. In my opinion, Ward-Prowse and Lavia are two standouts in your team, and would be absolutely perfectly suited to this system. An attacking midfielder with luxury traits and flair, who can arrive well for chances in the box, is what is needed too, and Aribo ticks those boxes well.

Strikers are going to be your most difficult spot to fill, in my opinion. In this particular formation, NJ would need a pure poacher (your version of Collins), but I don't think you have anyone. For now, Adams or maybe Mara could do a job but long term he'll look to buy a taller striker. Otherwise, he'll play a greyhound-like player to press defenders and make runs in the channels - enter Adam Armstrong. He isn't the best goal scorer at Premier League level, but neither is Cornick for us but he was very important.

Jones will need time to implement anything close to the success we had with this tactic, but the basic idea is very simple, and with the players you have in your squad, he's bound to make something work whether it's this or another tactic I'll go through soon.

The Elephant in the Room

NJ had two seasons (well, technically 1.5) of success with his diamond, achieving automatic promotion both times. However, he couldn't get it to work at Stoke City, which he know blames on the attitude of the players he had at his disposal and the general atmosphere at the club. He clearly didn't have time to bring in the players he wanted. It's hard to defend his time at Stoke, but I truly believe his time there is misunderstood, and the failure overstated.

NJ left us in a promotion spot in January 2019 for Stoke, who offered him a huge financial package that he'd have been stupid to turn down. At the time, our board were very angry with the way both Stoke and NJ went about the deal, something that they've praised about the Saints' approach thus far. NJ said he regrets the decision and has grown as a person as a result, vowing to never repeat the same mistake. This suggests two things which I think are valuable to you lot: 1) he will only leave for a convincing and ambitious project, reinforced by his post-match interview last night; and 2) his professionalism and cooperation with the club hierarchy has grown on a personal level, which is something any Luton fan can anecdotally attest to as well. He clearly thinks the board at Southampton have a clear vision in mind and will give him the time that Stoke didn't, otherwise he wouldn't be entertaining the proposition.

At Stoke, NJ's team struggled for goals, and they drew most of their games. They weren't as bad as people make out, and even if they were, it was hardly NJ's fault, evident by the failures of their managers since. The Stoke job is a poisoned chalice right now, and has been since their relegation from the Premier League. I implore you guys to not get too hung up on that blip in his career, for your own sake and his.

The Great Escape and the Dawn of the Back Five

Our first season back in the Championship was a disaster, replacing Nathan Jones with Graeme Jones, but he was nothing like his namesake. He was stubborn and moody, tactically over-ambitious, awful with both the players, fans, and the media, terrible with recruitment, and was on course to drag us right back down again. He, unlike his predecessor, couldn't translate his coaching skills into a managerial role.

When Covid-19 struck, so did we, sacking Graeme Jones and bringing back NJ to the dismay of many of our fans. Luckily for NJ, the lockdown meant the fans couldn't get on his back as we completed what we call the "Great Escape". NJ had nine games to keep us up, with us sitting five points adrift on his return. Not only did he do so, losing just one game in this time, we actually finished a respectable 19th. NJ reinstated his remaining League One favourites who Graeme Jones had frozen out, including Elliot Lee, Luke Berry, and Kazenga LuaLua who I mentioned earlier and who scored a screamer against Hull which essentially kept us in the league. In fact, only one of the 12 goals we scored in the escape was by a player NJ DIDN'T sign (Callum McManaman).

NJ had come back and relit the fire that he himself put out. The fans were back on his side, while the board the players never even left his side. This is something you'll learn, he has a knack of getting the players to die for him. He says it all the time in his interviews - our squad will do whatever is necessary to win, whether it's playing whilst unfit or playing out of position, it's just the atmosphere he creates within the squad. It's so evident because we still have some of the League Two signings in our squad today, playing way beyond their natural level through sheer effort and determination. Fans of other clubs in the league refer to us as "passion merchants" all the time.

This isn't the only reason we punch above out weight, though. A lot of it is down to NJ's new favourite tactic which is well-suited to underdogs where raw talent won't suffice - a similar situation to what you guys find yourselves in this season. Brace yourselves... it's a route one back five. Yep, a total departure from the free-flowing diamond mentioned earlier. But it's a testament to NJ's versatility and willingness to try whatever it takes to get results. In truth, it's what I imagine he'll initially set up with while you're in a relegation scrap in order to pick up the odd point against the bigger sides. It works for us, trust me. Here's what we played last season, at its peak:

Steer

Burke - Bradley - Naismith

Bree - Mpanzu - Lansbury - Campbell - Bell

Cornick - Adebayo

Seems simple, but it isn't really. It's lopsided, with the right-hand side pushing a lot further forward than the left. The left centre back is required to have excellent long ball-playing ability, something we've lacked since we lost Naismith. The right wing back and right centre back will both step forward while the left wing back supports the defenders. The middle central midfielder will typically sit deep whilst the other two essentially free-roam, collecting loose balls and playing them forward for Adebayo to knock down. Simple on paper, but require insane levels of fitness in practice, which I don't think will be a problem for you as your squad seems fit enough for sure. Here's how I think it translates:

Bazunu

Bella-Kotchap - Caleta-Car - Salisu

Livramento - Lavia - Ward-Prowse - Aribo - Perraud

Adams - *new striker*

NJ will buy a tall striker in the next available opportunity. He really needs someone 6'2"+ to knock it down in this system, and frankly I'm not sure you've got anyone cut out for it currently. I've put Perraud in as he is more physical than Larios. I've also got Ward-Prowse sitting deep, essentially playing like a deep-lying playmaker. Kiernan Dewsbury-Hall played that role for us two season ago, so think how he plays at Leicester for comparison.

You may have noticed a lack of wingers in both formations, and you'd be correct to have done. He doesn't like them, frankly. Any winger you have will be converted to either a striker, a midfielder, or a fullback, else they'll be gone. I can see him playing Elyounoussi, S. Armstrong, and Edozie as attacking midfielders to some capacity, while Djenepo would make a good wing back under NJ, but he'll have no use for Walcott or Tella when he returns.

In All, This is What to Expect (TL:DR)

Right, so that's his tactics done and why he came to play them, so here is some more quickfire what to expect:

Positives:

Will get the most out of players already at the club as long as they are humble enough to be played in unconventional roles

Will relish the opportunity to work with and improve raw talents like Small, Larios, Mara, Livramento, and Smallbone in particular (as these guys' profiles resemble what he'll want in his ideal diamond tactic)

Will relay as much passion as the fans give him, unequivocally

Will adapt tactics both in game and long-term if it isn't working - something he's learned from his notoriously stubborn tenure at Stoke

Will recruit outstandingly if given leeway and freedom in the market - signings that seem unusual tend to turn out the best.

Will improve the ambition of the squad if they buy into his vision.

Negatives:

Media-handling; the rest of the league's fans will loathe him, but you'll love him for it as it creates a great us-against-the-world mentality which ultimately wins game

Has his favourites; rewarding loyalty is often a double-edged sword and is sometimes hesitant to acknowledge when a good servant is in bad form. He's also very data driven so will continue to play players who aren't meeting the eye-test or pleasing fans if their data is okay

He'll sell your wingers if they can't prove to be adaptable to his full back-based systems

Youth development is something he doesn't really consider that much, though this might be because our academy is years behind the first team. He considers 23 and 24 year olds as "youngsters" and will often only give them odd minutes.

Doesn't take the domestic cups seriously, though he might at a club that actually has a chance of progressing past the early rounds like Southampton have.

Sorry for the long post guys but I hope it gives you a good understanding as to why he's absolutely worshipped at Luton Town. He's brought great success to us while galvanising the fan base and making us believe we can be a serious club again. He also fixed us financially and instilled a permanent transfer policy of developing under-utilised raw talent and developing them. Please give him a chance, he's a difficult character but the guy bleeds passion and will die for Southampton to do well, no matter the adversity. Thanks for reading and good luck for the season, we'll all be rooting for you from Bedfordshire.

EDIT: How could I forget his PowerPoints?! When he wants a player, he invited them to the training ground and shows them a PowerPoint presentation about where the club will be in x amount of years, and a detailed plan for their individual development. It's often joked about, but it really works and many of our signings have credited his presentations as the main reason they signed!

EDIT 2: Cheers for the comments guys, I'm glad I've reassured some of you that the appointment is better than it may seem. Please take this post with a pinch of salt though, he might surprise us and change it up completely. He may also fail miserably, I'm not a mystic just a fan. Also, please stop awarding this post, it's appreciated but really not necessary. I'm not even sure what they mean but apparently they cost money so please don't do that!

This has got to be a record 46 likes at the time of writing this

[adrian lord]

Great article/post. Thanks. 

 

[Badger]

Good piece, thanks for sharing it.

I can vouch for what he says about other fans though, having already a Reading , and Forest fan giving me their unfavourable views having seen him on the touchline. Forest  fan thinks we'll be nailed on for the drop, so hope NJ disappoints him on that.

Best not to mention the Stoke fan's opinion though.

[CanadaSaint]

Firstly, if Jones was able to outline to our “Board” what he would do here, as Reddit-dude did, I can understand why they didn’t look much further - even though they must have known they’d get hammered for lack of ambition.

Secondly, if we actually have a decent squad of players (which some of us believe - caveat on missing striker), Jones’s philosophy will liberate them - and probably pretty quickly. Same players, much better tune, far more enjoyable to watch.

Thirdly, what a joy it was to read something so thoughtful, balanced and positive. He may not be a typical fan, but it was heartwarming to read something that didn’t have the sneering negativity and self entitlement that are commonplace on forums. Just reading that, from a Luton fan, explains why some folks think footy is much more enjoyable outside the PL. Thanks to him and good luck to them.

[CeeBee]

Great article. Thanks for taking the time to appraise us of the tactics and demeanour of our new manager. Very insightful.

[Chez]

11 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

At Stoke, NJ's team struggled for goals, and they drew most of their games. They weren't as bad as people make out, and even if they were, it was hardly NJ's fault, evident by the failures of their managers since. The Stoke job is a poisoned chalice right now, and has been since their relegation from the Premier League. I implore you guys to not get too hung up on that blip in his career, for your own sake and his.

Thanks for post. Some great insights. 

I don't think his time at Stoke should be completely ignored. Sure, Stoke was a nightmare job, but ours isn't a bed of roses too. We have been on the slide for some time. His failure to turn that oil liner around is a concern. Like them, scoring goals is an issue for us. The question I have, is how is he going to change that? Buying a big target man and hitting diagonal balls seems to be the answer. That big lad is gonna have to be bloody good. 

[Wade Garrett]

10 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

All about stats these days so that everyone can marvel at how so and so completed more passes than anyone in the league at the weekend, even though they were all to someone right next to him.

I know.  It gets on your tits doesn’t it.

[JRM]

14 hours ago, spyinthesky said:

Great read.
One thing that stuck in my mind is the expectation that NJ will look to source a big target man, similar to Pelle perhaps.
I think the side has been crying out for height and physicality upfront for some time.

Wood from Newcastle would be good for us I think 

[kwsaint]

The real shame is that he wasnt put in place in the summer.  Then if it didnt work out there would be time to change.  Feels more of a gamble three months into the season.  A bit like Lawrie's appointment back in the seventies.  He had loads of potential but we ended up getting relegated first before it came good

[Baird of the land]

11 hours ago, Chez said:

Thanks for post. Some great insights. 

I don't think his time at Stoke should be completely ignored. Sure, Stoke was a nightmare job, but ours isn't a bed of roses too. We have been on the slide for some time. His failure to turn that oil liner around is a concern. Like them, scoring goals is an issue for us. The question I have, is how is he going to change that? Buying a big target man and hitting diagonal balls seems to be the answer. That big lad is gonna have to be bloody good. 

I'd argue we're not quite yet at the Sunderland/Stoke point yet.

Also hopefully as he's argued he's learned lessons from mistakes of trying to be too ambitious too early there that we will benefit from.

Buying sensibly for the short/medium term in January rather than for long-term sell on value was going to be key for any manager that came in. Gotta hope Sports Republic agree.

[macca155]

We aren't 't Stoke ((yet) and I still believe there is a lot of quality in the squad for NJ to use.. Certainly enough to avoid relegation if used correctly.

I couldn't give toss what tactics are used at this stage. It's all about survival at the moment. If it's route one so be it. Be Good to see Adams playing with 6 foot+ power house.

Be interesting to see Lyanco and Adams up front with JWP firing passes at them at every opportunity.

[StrangelyBrown]

22 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

Does anyone actually genuine prioritise attractive football over results? Genuine question; It's not wrong because if you pay your money to go and support the team, you can prioritise what you like, it's entirely your purgative, I'm just curious if anyone would actually be unhappy should we play his alleged hoofball, win a trophy and have a European run and would prefer to play beautiful, high press football and be relegated?

 

I don't mind poor football if it is used to get a occasional result, but watching dire hoofball week in week out when we lose more than we win is depressing as hell.

For me good football is a joy to watch even if we lose as long as we're competitive and I feel like we have a chance - I long ago got over losing more than we win.

[LuckyNumber7]

Props to that Luton fan for doing something so many on here fail at - spelling Bazunu's name correctly.

[tajjuk]

12 hours ago, Chez said:

Thanks for post. Some great insights. 

I don't think his time at Stoke should be completely ignored. Sure, Stoke was a nightmare job, but ours isn't a bed of roses too. We have been on the slide for some time. His failure to turn that oil liner around is a concern. Like them, scoring goals is an issue for us. The question I have, is how is he going to change that? Buying a big target man and hitting diagonal balls seems to be the answer. That big lad is gonna have to be bloody good. 

I think the comment about the Stoke thing is the club being a mess from top to bottom, we are nowhere near that IMO. We are well run club, with good people about, owners who have a clear idea about what they want to do, a good academy, some very good young players, clearly no real financial issues if we were going to whack £30 million plus on an attacker etc. 

I mean really if we had managed to say get Gakpo over the line in the summer then I think we would probably be sitting 10-12th and Ralph would still probably have his job.

From what I have read about his time at Stoke and from comments about from the man himself, I think he basically didn't look before he leapt. He was a young league 1 level manager, in his first job and a much bigger Championship club, that had very recently been in the PL, came knocking and he jumped at the chance, probably thinking he'd take the club back in the PL within a year or two. But when he got there he found a disorganised club, with no real identity or plan, loads of player turnover before he got there and the following summer and when he tried to do what had worked at Luton it just didn't work because the whole club was set up wrongly for it and he didn't get the support to do the change needed. 

He said in his interviews that hes had multiple approaches from clubs but wanted one with a similar ethos to Luton and the people at Luton, which is what he said attracted him to us, that the two clubs shared similar approaches. I think people under estimate how a club's atmosphere, behind the scenes etc. can really impact players and managers. Just look at Utd, huge resources as club, gone through what 5 managers now since Fergie left, all struggled to get the team to perform consistently, get signings working etc. which just indicates that what goes on behind the scenes, the staff they have, how transfers are handled, the whole direction of the club is just bad. 

Also not really worried about the style of football in the short term, doesn't sound like he's some dedicated hoofball merchant just a manager being adaptable to the players he has got, what they can do and how good they are compared to the opposition. 

 

[teamsaint]

What a great post. A terrific read.

 

those of us who were around in the 80’s will remember what a good side Luton had for a while, always seemed to give us a torrid time, and not just because of that pitch of theirs.

[Chez]

45 minutes ago, teamsaint said:

What a great post. A terrific read.

 

those of us who were around in the 80’s will remember what a good side Luton had for a while, always seemed to give us a torrid time, and not just because of that pitch of theirs.

They had some good players and a very tidy side. We never beat them once at their place in the 80s. We are often absolutely "garbage" (Chris Nicholls words I think) on the plastic. They stuffed us by 6 and 7. I think they only beat us a couple of times at the Dell though.

[Chez]

3 hours ago, tajjuk said:

I think the comment about the Stoke thing is the club being a mess from top to bottom, we are nowhere near that IMO. We are well run club, with good people about, owners who have a clear idea about what they want to do, a good academy, some very good young players, clearly no real financial issues if we were going to whack £30 million plus on an attacker etc. 

I mean really if we had managed to say get Gakpo over the line in the summer then I think we would probably be sitting 10-12th and Ralph would still probably have his job.

From what I have read about his time at Stoke and from comments about from the man himself, I think he basically didn't look before he leapt. He was a young league 1 level manager, in his first job and a much bigger Championship club, that had very recently been in the PL, came knocking and he jumped at the chance, probably thinking he'd take the club back in the PL within a year or two. But when he got there he found a disorganised club, with no real identity or plan, loads of player turnover before he got there and the following summer and when he tried to do what had worked at Luton it just didn't work because the whole club was set up wrongly for it and he didn't get the support to do the change needed. 

He said in his interviews that hes had multiple approaches from clubs but wanted one with a similar ethos to Luton and the people at Luton, which is what he said attracted him to us, that the two clubs shared similar approaches. I think people under estimate how a club's atmosphere, behind the scenes etc. can really impact players and managers. Just look at Utd, huge resources as club, gone through what 5 managers now since Fergie left, all struggled to get the team to perform consistently, get signings working etc. which just indicates that what goes on behind the scenes, the staff they have, how transfers are handled, the whole direction of the club is just bad. 

Also not really worried about the style of football in the short term, doesn't sound like he's some dedicated hoofball merchant just a manager being adaptable to the players he has got, what they can do and how good they are compared to the opposition. 

 

You make some very fair pojnts.

There are some parallels with our own situation. As is often the case when a new guy comes in, he inherits a losing side and needs to turn the ship around, which is tough task. An ability to see the problem and solve it is very important. Can he see our problem(s) - beyond the 'we need to score more goals' - and find a way of solving that? 

One thing I agree with you on is him inheriting a decent academy (assuming we continue to invest heavily in scholars) and good young players. If he is relatively successful - i.e. keeps us up - there are some players there, like Edozie, Ballard and Jimmy Jay, that could form the basis of a very exciting side. I believe that a managers success at a club can often be determined by the situation they land in.  Arriving just as an amazing batch of young talent is coming through has nothing to do with that manager and everything to do with their timing. Lets hope Jones' timing is perfect!

As I have said in other posts, I am looking forward to see how he does. I'm hoping he emulates Potter at Brighton and we are patting the board on the back for seeing his talent.

[Saintscummer]

On 10/11/2022 at 11:23, Bad Wolf said:

Does anyone actually genuine prioritise attractive football over results? Genuine question; It's not wrong because if you pay your money to go and support the team, you can prioritise what you like, it's entirely your purgative, I'm just curious if anyone would actually be unhappy should we play his alleged hoofball, win a trophy and have a European run and would prefer to play beautiful, high press football and be relegated?

 

In over 40 years of supporting saints home and away I have never been unhappy with a win. No matter how we play 

[Toadhall Saint]

21 minutes ago, Saintscummer said:

In over 40 years of supporting saints home and away I have never been unhappy with a win. No matter how we play 

True that 

[sandwichsaint]

Another Graham Taylor perchance? I don't think too many would enthuse over his style of football but it's hard to argue with his results. And it was said that he too used to buy his centre forwards 'by the yard'.

Not quite sure how this all translates into the modern PL but it's looks like we've got us a manager that's prepared to utilise what he's given to the max.

Interesting times and straight out of the SR playbook.

Still can't quite work out why they stuck with RH for so long?

 

[malcolm waldron]

I have to wonder who is the random Luton fan who wrote this piece originally?  For a start it's very long - and why would a Luton fan be bothered to go to this length of analysis having just lost their saviour to us?  Absolutely glad that he did though.  For me the interesting piece is how much they know about relatively low key players we have (or have loaned out).  I understand that many football fans live and breath it every day (and I'm the same during transfer window closing week and the Ralph situation over the last few days) - but how many Luton fans really know about Larios, Mara, Smallbone (I get the Stoke connection) and above all Thierry Small.  I'd blocked him out of my mind after Coventry and yet a Luton fan has the awareness to select him as one for the future NJ team.  I'm very impressed!   I'm a little out of touch but have now seen TS is coming back....when regrettably according to Port Vale he didnt get the game time he might have wanted?

So - very grateful for the 'Luton fan' to have given us such a huge insight into Nathans career over the last five years - and it sounds a potential good match for us.   I just wonder how much of the above text was lifted from Nathans first conversations with us back in the summer.......

 

 

[baggytrousers]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/nov/11/nathan-jones-southampton-manager-intensity-luton

[Hamilton Saint]

A very interesting read. Thanks for sharing this.