Nathan Jones

[Ex Lion Tamer]

7 hours ago, Daft Kerplunk said:

For the last 150+ years, there’s only one stat that matters when it comes to forward play. That’s goals. It’s high time people remembered that.

How you go about goals is another matter but xg is about as pointless a stat as possible when it comes to the actual point of football. 

You don't have to be a genius or a nerd to understand the point @Saint86 was making

[LaptopSaint]

1 hour ago, whiteleySaint30 said:

Hardly a 2 minute pr video as mentioned above. Makes him look like a less knowledgeable Ted Lasso. Even my 10 and 13 year olds were laughing.

 My lads Sunday league manager has more knowledge and motivation than this fella. 

Hope he proves me wrong but I reckon this is going to be rough ride. 

🤣

[The Kraken]

6 hours ago, saintscottofthenortham said:

I watched this video at the time and thought how positive it was. Then I saw a stream of pissing and moaning on this thread so assumed they'd done another one.

Nope... Just the usual, looking for a negative in anything.

This guy has no hope. Genuinely. The moment he has a bad result (which is inevitable), he'll be destroyed.

What a joke our fanbase is. And we wonder why we're a tinpot club who can't sign a decent forward?

Maybe have a calm down.  

So you liked the video. Well done. Others said they liked it less. Well done them. It’s a perception thing.

Your whole line of “people are looking for the negative in anything” that you’ve stated is, well, strange.  It just seems like a bit of a paranoid feeling. With a new manager, Saints fans will put naturally forwards all sorts of opinions. On here we have seen all manner of opinions about Nathan Jones. Some on here have seen plenty of good in the vids released, plenty have said they are indifferent, quite a few are completely negative, but overall the consensus seems to be that most want him to do alright. There is no point having a hissy fit against those who don’t match your opinion and call them a “joke”, and then say the whole fan base follows their line into negativity. It’s just a weird made-up analysis.

 

[saintscottofthenortham]

3 hours ago, The Kraken said:

Maybe have a calm down.  

So you liked the video. Well done. Others said they liked it less. Well done them. It’s a perception thing.

Your whole line of “people are looking for the negative in anything” that you’ve stated is, well, strange.  It just seems like a bit of a paranoid feeling. With a new manager, Saints fans will put naturally forwards all sorts of opinions. On here we have seen all manner of opinions about Nathan Jones. Some on here have seen plenty of good in the vids released, plenty have said they are indifferent, quite a few are completely negative, but overall the consensus seems to be that most want him to do alright. There is no point having a hissy fit against those who don’t match your opinion and call them a “joke”, and then say the whole fan base follows their line into negativity. It’s just a weird made-up analysis.

 

There is far more negative, on everything NJ related I've seen, than anything remotely indifferent, let alone positive. If your finding negative in that clip of him mic'd up, you're looking for an issue. You think the club would've posted that unless they didn't think it was a positive change? Hell, from what I heard Ralph had zero involvement in training FFS! Some of the outright dismissal towards NJ already, is alarming to say the least. One bad result, say Lincoln or Brighton (god forbid both), and the war cries will be heard.

At the volume I've seen it, I can't see how his position is going to feel anything but untenable unless he gets off to a miraculous start.

What's it based on? Stoke? A poisoned chalice.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

3 hours ago, The Kraken said:

Maybe have a calm down.  

So you liked the video. Well done. Others said they liked it less. Well done them. It’s a perception thing.

Your whole line of “people are looking for the negative in anything” that you’ve stated is, well, strange.  It just seems like a bit of a paranoid feeling. With a new manager, Saints fans will put naturally forwards all sorts of opinions. On here we have seen all manner of opinions about Nathan Jones. Some on here have seen plenty of good in the vids released, plenty have said they are indifferent, quite a few are completely negative, but overall the consensus seems to be that most want him to do alright. There is no point having a hissy fit against those who don’t match your opinion and call them a “joke”, and then say the whole fan base follows their line into negativity. It’s just a weird made-up analysis.

 

Yep well said. Surely every Saints wants him to do well but a lot, including me, just don’t think the timing is right. He could well be the next Graham Potter but to plunge a PL rookie manager into a relegation battle with an inexperienced team who lack a goalscorer is probably asking too much. 

[egg]

12 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Yep well said. Surely every Saints wants him to do well but a lot, including me, just don’t think the timing is right. He could well be the next Graham Potter but to plunge a PL rookie manager into a relegation battle with an inexperienced team who lack a goalscorer is probably asking too much. 

I've not heard many people complain about the timing. Pretty much everyone I've spoken to think the timing was spot on, although some (me included) think it should have been earlier. Saying that it's the wrong time for a rookie feels to be more of a complaint about who got the job, and the lack of a striker, is another issue. 

 

[Wade Garrett]

11 hours ago, saintscottofthenortham said:

I watched this video at the time and thought how positive it was. Then I saw a stream of pissing and moaning on this thread so assumed they'd done another one.

Nope... Just the usual, looking for a negative in anything.

This guy has no hope. Genuinely. The moment he has a bad result (which is inevitable), he'll be destroyed.

What a joke our fanbase is. And we wonder why we're a tinpot club who can't sign a decent forward?

I wouldn’t get our fanbase confused with a few idiots on here.

[saintscottofthenortham]

15 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Yep well said. Surely every Saints wants him to do well but a lot, including me, just don’t think the timing is right. He could well be the next Graham Potter but to plunge a PL rookie manager into a relegation battle with an inexperienced team who lack a goalscorer is probably asking too much. 

Nothing at all to do with timing. He has been slated by many for everything he does, doesn't do, says, doesn't say, wears and doesn't wear. A very fair chunk of our fanbase have completely written him off, already... And it has nothing to do with timing. The only issue with timing was with SR, who should've pumped Ralph far sooner than they did.

[saintscottofthenortham]

Just now, Wade Garrett said:

I wouldn’t get our fanbase confused with a few idiots on here.

I'm not going by just on here... It's everywhere, and very apparent.

[trousers]

7 hours ago, The Kraken said:

Your whole line of “people are looking for the negative in anything” that you’ve stated is, well, strange. 

Yep, this. There's definitely no-one on this forum that matches that description....

[Fitzhugh Fella]

4 hours ago, egg said:

I've not heard many people complain about the timing. Pretty much everyone I've spoken to think the timing was spot on, although some (me included) think it should have been earlier. Saying that it's the wrong time for a rookie feels to be more of a complaint about who got the job, and the lack of a striker, is another issue. 

 

It’s another issue but is relevant to the predicament we are currently in. Of course it may not be an issue come January but I’m commenting on where NJ currently finds himself. I agree re the timing. Had we appointed him in the summer it would have been better. Whichever way you argue you have to concede he is a rookie in terms of top flight managerial experience. I sincerely hope he proves my doubts to be unfounded but surely you can’t blame a lot of fans for having such doubts? Should we not be expressing them on a forum? 

[aintforever]

We all want him to do well but that shouldn't stop you having an honest opinion.

Personally I think he will be a spectacular failure. Managing a Prem side is a tough job for any manager and he's got the cards stacked against him from the off. I'm not particularly against hiring managers from the Championship in principle but just think having an experienced manager or manager with a big name/reputation would suit us at this time with the young squad we've got.

Basically if you're young player and Koeman/Strachan/Hoddle tell you you're great then you will walk out at Old Trafford with a bit more confidence than if it comes from someone who's never even played there.

Hopefully I will be proven wrong though.

Edited 19 December, 2022 by aintforever

[Weston Super Saint]

2 hours ago, aintforever said:

 

Hopefully I will be proven wrong though.

Thank god you posted. Things are definitely looking up given how often you ARE proven wrong 😉

[Bad Wolf]

The more he talks, the more I like him. We're either going to go on a mad run and finish in the top 10 or finish rock bottom with only 5 more points. I just feel like it's going to go either one extreme or the other.

[Saint86]

On 18/12/2022 at 13:09, Daft Kerplunk said:

For the last 150+ years, there’s only one stat that matters when it comes to forward play. That’s goals. It’s high time people remembered that.

How you go about goals is another matter but xg is about as pointless a stat as possible when it comes to the actual point of football. 

This is wrong though isn't it... Some people have a good eye for when someone should have scored etc. Some people are less fortunate, and are afflicted with similar judging abilities to your Jenas's or dixon's... But xGs vs actual goals is an incredibly simple way to statistically contextualise the finishing ability of our strikers. Unless you disagree and think they're finishing is acceptable for the chances generated? 🤣

Edited 19 December, 2022 by Saint86

[Turkish]

4 hours ago, aintforever said:

We all want him to do well but that shouldn't stop you having an honest opinion.

Personally I think he will be a spectacular failure. Managing a Prem side is a tough job for any manager and he's got the cards stacked against him from the off. I'm not particularly against hiring managers from the Championship in principle but just think having an experienced manager or manager with a big name/reputation would suit us at this time with the young squad we've got.

Basically if you're young player and Koeman/Strachan/Hoddle tell you you're great then you will walk out at Old Trafford with a bit more confidence than if it comes from someone who's never even played there.

Hopefully I will be proven wrong though.

You usually are.

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Thank god you posted. Things are definitely looking up given how often you ARE proven wrong 😉

Damn you beat me to it 

[Daft Kerplunk]

15 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

This is wrong though isn't it... Some people have a good eye for when someone should have scored etc. Some people are less fortunate, and are afflicted with similar judging abilities to your Jenas's or dixon's... But xGs vs actual goals is an incredibly simple way to statistically contextualise the finishing ability of our strikers. Unless you disagree and think they're finishing is acceptable for the chances generated? 🤣

Mbappe’s goal last night. Expected goal or finish that 99 out of 100 would have messed up? But ultimately, still the same, I know what you’re getting at with the use of the stat but it isn’t needed to confirm we are crap at scoring goals. I could be on the pitch and miss loads of chances. It wouldn’t take xg to tell anyone I was shit in front of goal. It’d be obvious 😎

[Miltonaggro]

2 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

The more he talks, the more I like him. We're either going to go on a mad run and finish in the top 10 or finish rock bottom with only 5 more points. I just feel like it's going to go either one extreme or the other.

Agree. Can see no grey. 

[Saint86]

9 hours ago, saintscottofthenortham said:

Nothing at all to do with timing. He has been slated by many for everything he does, doesn't do, says, doesn't say, wears and doesn't wear. A very fair chunk of our fanbase have completely written him off, already... And it has nothing to do with timing. The only issue with timing was with SR, who should've pumped Ralph far sooner than they did.

I think very few people have actually written him off... so as @The Kraken said above, calm down somewhat. You're going to cause yourself a lot of aggravation if you deem right from the start that no one can raise a word of caution... How are you going to handle a potential cup upset vs Lincoln - they do happen...

Jones is an unknown manager at this level, but he and the club knew that when he was given the job of trying to gel a young relegation threatened team... the pressure is going to be on him to prove himself and to ultimately succeed. That is natural and it is to be expected that people will take an interest in how he manages the team, his methods, what he says etc. Frankly it would be downright weird if that wasn't the case - Not least because all our fans are rightly concerned about where the club is right now. And within all of that, fans will see traits/signs in Jones to be positive about, and some things to be wary or concerned about. No manager is going to be perfect.
 

[Saint86]

7 minutes ago, Daft Kerplunk said:

Mbappe’s goal last night. Expected goal or finish that 99 out of 100 would have messed up? But ultimately, still the same, I know what you’re getting at with the use of the stat but it isn’t needed to confirm we are crap at scoring goals. I could be on the pitch and miss loads of chances. It wouldn’t take xg to tell anyone I was shit in front of goal. It’d be obvious 😎

On this we agree, but it does highlight how bad we are 🤣

Edited 19 December, 2022 by Saint86

[Daft Kerplunk]

18 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

On this we agree, but it does highlight how bad we are 🤣

Ain’t that the truth 😁

[Scallysaint]

Some people still think that to be a good manager you have to have been a great player! That’s why Lampard and Gerard are doin* so well in management. Klopp didn’t have much of a career as a player. There really are some whoppers that follow football.

 

Truth is none of us know how this will play out. I wasn’t happy when we sacked Nigel for Poch. I was wrong. I was excited about Koeman. Undecided about Puel or Ralph. Had an instant bad feeling about Hughes and Pellegrino. 
 

I could go further back to the horror of Wigley and Grey.

All I know is I’ll support the new manager and the team as always and I’d put my reaction to Jones as similar to Ralph and Puel. Read some good things and can see how it might work.

[SotonianWill]

14 hours ago, Scallysaint said:

Some people still think that to be a good manager you have to have been a great player! That’s why Lampard and Gerard are doin* so well in management. Klopp didn’t have much of a career as a player. There really are some whoppers that follow football.

 

Truth is none of us know how this will play out. I wasn’t happy when we sacked Nigel for Poch. I was wrong. I was excited about Koeman. Undecided about Puel or Ralph. Had an instant bad feeling about Hughes and Pellegrino. 
 

I could go further back to the horror of Wigley and Grey.

All I know is I’ll support the new manager and the team as always and I’d put my reaction to Jones as similar to Ralph and Puel. Read some good things and can see how it might work.

People would rather a manger they know next to nothing of as per the two at the bottom you listed, rather than someone they have heard of from their mates mate who’s a stoke fan. 

 

*was going to edit this but as it’s christmas the manger instead of manager comment is fitting 

Edited 20 December, 2022 by SotonianWill

[Killers Knee]

On 19/12/2022 at 20:39, Scallysaint said:

Some people still think that to be a good manager you have to have been a great player!                              

Saints managers of the modern era who got close to or above a 40% win rate had similar profile:

1.  They all played football at international level.

2.  They moved to Saints after gaining managerial experience in or promotion to the top tier of their respective leagues.

3.  Those above 40% win rates had also qualified for finals of respective domestic tournaments prior to Saints.

Im not doubting the success of Mourinho/Klopp or others who have achieved great successes by other routes, but our organisational and hiring constraints produce a certain managerial profile.  

As Mourinho/Klopp can purchase players we can only dream of, we must coach brilliance into rough diamonds, a job Mourinho/Klopp cannot do but hire strong 2nds for and have the budgets to support.

With our current setup, who is going to coach our players to attain peak performance at an individual or team level?  Where did they gain this experience?  Looking to the coaches, there is nobody of merit.  
 

Anything they have learned is from a book, course or playing with low level dross; no practical implementation within the top tier.

Is Nate a tactical genius or a chancer trying to shortcut his way to the top table?  We will find out over the next 6 matches.

 

[BARCELONASAINT]

Ive always been one for getting behind a new manager and not writing them off too early. However i was very underwhelmed when we appointed Jones and after watching last nights horrendous team performance i am even more so gutted by the appointment we have made, I honestly believe this appointment will go down in Saints history as another cluster fuck on the same scale as appointing that idiot Rednapp who had zero interest in us.

I so hope i'm wrong and Jones proves to be a masterstroke but on the evidence of last night against a poor Lincoln side i'm so concerned we have made an utter abysmal appointment.

[It's There]

2 hours ago, BARCELONASAINT said:

Ive always been one for getting behind a new manager and not writing them off too early. However i was very underwhelmed when we appointed Jones and after watching last nights horrendous team performance i am even more so gutted by the appointment we have made, I honestly believe this appointment will go down in Saints history as another cluster fuck on the same scale as appointing that idiot Rednapp who had zero interest in us.

I so hope i'm wrong and Jones proves to be a masterstroke but on the evidence of last night against a poor Lincoln side i'm so concerned we have made an utter abysmal appointment.

I think you need to give him time and the transfer window. We are not cut adrift, someh players were rusty and clearly some should be replaced. It’s only 10 days to January 1st… let’s hope things are ready to happen!

[Saint Matty 76]

My guess is the team that started last night is the one he wants to start vs Brighton, with Lavia in for the terrible AMN if he passes fit. However, I'd hope he realises we looked far better in the 433 and that Adam Armstrong is absolutely garbage.

Bazunu
KWP - ABK - Salisu - Perraud
JWP - Lavia - Armstrong
Aribo - Che - Elyounoussi

Never been a fan of Elyounoussi but I think he was our best player yesterday. Lyanco was decent enough defensively but I don't think I could spend another 90 minutes watching him spray crossfield passes 10 yards away from his target. Edozie to come on with 30 minutes~ to go and look like our only attacker capable of getting the crowd excited as per usual.

I think it's an important early sign for the fans that he shows a willingness to change when things didn't look right. The team and set-up we started with yesterday was not a good look.

Edited 21 December, 2022 by Saint Matty 76

[captainchris]

I do wonder who on earth is deciding to pick Adam Armstrong despite his obvious dreadful lack of ability at this level. There will be youngsters and others who would fill that position far more skilfully. 
Even just one recognised forward would perhaps suit us better as we are so often outnumbered in midfield anyway. 
Let’s also hope that the strategy of allowing Lyanco to spearhead our tactical master stroke of endless long balls which were totally aimless and at best hopeful is not employed again because that was pub football standard tactics.

Jones must learn the obvious quickly and employ some urgent critical thinking for we do have enough in this squad to get some results if Management do their job well, however that was a very poor initial effort Nathan.

[goodymatt]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CmdxrTxhjW8/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Seems quite vocal on the sidelines… looked about as happy as I was watching Tuesday’s performance. Is this a good thing or does it show his messages aren’t getting across so far?

[Charlie Wayman]

5 minutes ago, goodymatt said:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CmdxrTxhjW8/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Seems quite vocal on the sidelines… looked about as happy as I was watching Tuesday’s performance. Is this a good thing or does it show his messages aren’t getting across so far?

Always thought the best coaches did their instruction on the training ground and let the players get on with it during the match. There is always time at HT to correct things in the privacy of the dressing room. Shouting at players endlessly from the touchline during play serves only to confuse and disrupt. 

[skintsaint]

19 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Always thought the best coaches did their instruction on the training ground and let the players get on with it during the match. There is always time at HT to correct things in the privacy of the dressing room. Shouting at players endlessly from the touchline during play serves only to confuse and 

😅

[Chez]

17 hours ago, Saint Matty 76 said:

My guess is the team that started last night is the one he wants to start vs Brighton, with Lavia in for the terrible AMN if he passes fit. However, I'd hope he realises we looked far better in the 433 and that Adam Armstrong is absolutely garbage.

Bazunu
KWP - ABK - Salisu - Perraud
JWP - Lavia - Armstrong
Aribo - Che - Elyounoussi

 

I have no idea why people keep putting Aribo in their starting eleven. He was a complete passenger in the games before the World Cup. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

23 hours ago, Killers Knee said:

Saints managers of the modern era who got close to or above a 40% win rate had similar profile:

1.  They all played football at international level.

 

 

Who did Alan Pardew & Nigel Adkins play international level for? 
 

 

[Killers Knee]

9 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Who did Alan Pardew & Nigel Adkins play international level for? 
 

 

I should have qualified that for you with "40 points in the Premier League".  I thought it was inferred.

[Lord Duckhunter]

3 minutes ago, Killers Knee said:

I should have qualified that for you with "40 points in the Premier League".  I thought it was inferred.

Who did Claude play international football for? 

[Killers Knee]

32 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Who did Claude play international football for? 

He didn’t, probably why his % win rate whilst good, was not good enough 

[Lord Duckhunter]

21 minutes ago, Killers Knee said:

He didn’t, probably why his % win rate whilst good, was not good enough 

Ok, I get it. 
 

Saints managers of the modern era who got close to or above a 40% win rate had similar profile:

1. They’ve all played internationals

2. They’ve all had ginger hair.

3. They’ve all had a brother called Erwin

 

Jones out! 

[Killers Knee]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Ok, I get it. 
 

Saints managers of the modern era who got close to or above a 40% win rate had similar profile:

1. They’ve all played internationals

2. They’ve all had ginger hair.

3. They’ve all had a brother called Erwin

 

Jones out! 

Close, but sadly, no cigar!

[stevy777_x]

On 18/12/2022 at 15:34, AlexLaw76 said:

Ralph was completely spent almost entirely in 2022.  Some of the football was as bad as we have seen for a very long time, and the start of the season was just bizarre.

Jones will (hopefully) add a short-term bounce, at least.

Nice bounce!

[Saint Matty 76]

7 hours ago, Chez said:

I have no idea why people keep putting Aribo in their starting eleven. He was a complete passenger in the games before the World Cup. 

That's fair enough. It's more a reflection on the lack of options rather than anything else. He at least has the capability to beat a player and has actually scored a couple of goals.

I'd rather start Edozie given what he's shown, but I also understand his impact off the bench is maybe more appealing than 90 minutes just yet.

[Saint86]

No real surprises here - we are where we are basically because of our finishing, that and key injuries across the back and midfield.

Without attacking additions, its hard to see how we get out of this mess - regardless of who the manager is.

[Roo1976]

On 22/12/2022 at 10:14, Charlie Wayman said:

Always thought the best coaches did their instruction on the training ground and let the players get on with it during the match. There is always time at HT to correct things in the privacy of the dressing room. Shouting at players endlessly from the touchline during play serves only to confuse and disrupt. 

so what about us fans? should we just shut up aswell?(i know we have very little to shout about ATM).

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, Saint86 said:

No real surprises here - we are where we are basically because of our finishing, that and key injuries across the back and midfield.

Without attacking additions, its hard to see how we get out of this mess - regardless of who the manager is.

Have you ever seen a more meaningless graph?

[Dusic]

7 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Have you ever seen a more meaningless graph?

Why? It shows what most of us think, we can defend in a manner that is similar to a lot of teams but in attack are poor at creating clear chances.

[Turkish]

8 minutes ago, Dusic said:

Why? It shows what most of us think, we can defend in a manner that is similar to a lot of teams but in attack are poor at creating clear chances.

You answered your own question 

[Saint86]

28 minutes ago, Turkish said:

You answered your own question 

So you're saying that what most people think is meaningless? You're not pulling any punches there😅

[GDog07]

On 21/12/2022 at 16:50, It's There said:

I think you need to give him time and the transfer window. We are not cut adrift, someh players were rusty and clearly some should be replaced. It’s only 10 days to January 1st… let’s hope things are ready to happen!

This is Southampton.

We all know that we need reinforcements in the attacking department desperately. I’m not holding my breath that we’ll have anyone through the door within the first couple of days like we SHOULD and NEED to have incoming, it’s suicide if it doesn’t happen.

If we don’t act fast, we might not be cut adrift now, but we will be after our run of winnable games during this festive period and early January if we aren’t scoring goals.

[Lighthouse]

4 minutes ago, GDog07 said:

This is Southampton.

We all know that we need reinforcements in the attacking department desperately. I’m not holding my breath that we’ll have anyone through the door within the first couple of days like we SHOULD and NEED to have incoming, it’s suicide if it doesn’t happen.

If we don’t act fast, we might not be cut adrift now, but we will be after our run of winnable games during this festive period and early January if we aren’t scoring goals.

A third of the clubs in the football league are at moderate risk of relegation. Another third are chasing promotion, the league title or entry into Europe. Most of the fans of these clubs (some sixty-odd out of ninety two) will be demanding transfers in January to ensure they achieve their targets this season. Zero will be demanding their club sells decent players as soon as possible.

 

Hardly any business will be done by anyone in the first week of the window and not much will be done at all. It’s January, it’s like this for everyone.

[verlaine1979]

2 hours ago, Dusic said:

Why? It shows what most of us think, we can defend in a manner that is similar to a lot of teams but in attack are poor at creating clear chances.

Doesn't it actually suggest that we concede a lot more goals than we should?

The chart isn't very clear, but looks like our expected goals for is about 1 per game and our expected goals against is about 1.35. That would equate to 15 for and about 20 against, when the reality is we've scored 13 but let in 27.