What Is Happening To Our Country?

[hypochondriac]

What is happening to our country? I'd say this is a particular low point on certain metrics. I'm not a death penalty supporter but this sort of thing makes me reconsider:

 

 

[egg]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

What is happening to our country? I'd say this is a particular low point on certain metrics. I'm not a death penalty supporter but this sort of thing makes me reconsider:

 

 

What possessed you to post that? Old and very unpleasant news, and targeting a familiar target for you. Alas, horrendous stuff like that happens the world over, and isn't unique to our country. 

[hypochondriac]

8 minutes ago, egg said:

What possessed you to post that? Old and very unpleasant news, and targeting a familiar target for you. Alas, horrendous stuff like that happens the world over, and isn't unique to our country. 

I posted it because I had not seen these sentencing remarks before and am utterly appaled by it. It is not until you are confronted with graphic detail like that you even begin to comprehend the depravity of people engaged in this sort of thing. This is a thread about what is happening to the country. I would suggest that child rapists like this are a terrible part of the problem. 

Edited 31 December, 2024 by hypochondriac

[egg]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

I posted it because I had not seen these sentencing remarks before and am utterly appaled by it. It is not until you are confronted with graphic detail like that you even begin to comprehend the depravity of people engaged in this sort of thing. This is a thread about what is happening to the country. I would suggest that child rapists like this are a terrible part of the problem. 

If it was Dave from Derby you wouldn't have bothered. 

Regardless, child and gang rape sadly happens and always has. These perpetrators being caught, convicted and sentenced is surely a positive, not a negative. 

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, egg said:

If it was Dave from Derby you wouldn't have bothered. 

Regardless, child and gang rape sadly happens and always has. These perpetrators being caught, convicted and sentenced is surely a positive, not a negative. 

Eh? I absolutely would if confronted with the graphic details of child rape like that. I was equally scathing of the likes of huw Edwards for supporting this sort of industry even though what he did was not the end of the world. I'm sure you're aware of the scandal involved with many of these cases and the amount of time and effort it took for something to be done to allow these convictions to take place. I listened to a podcast from one of the victims recently it was a real scandal. 

[Mixedkebab]

8 hours ago, egg said:

What possessed you to post that? Old and very unpleasant news, and targeting a familiar target for you. Alas, horrendous stuff like that happens the world over, and isn't unique to our country. 

This is our country, and this disgusting shit was covered up for a long time by officials. It should never be forgotten. As this is a thread called what is happening to our country, it’s relevant, and maybe it will remind people if they have a daughter or granddaughter to be as vigilant as possible for their safety, as there are more depraved predators out there than people think.

Edited 31 December, 2024 by Mixedkebab

[egg]

1 hour ago, Mixedkebab said:

This is our country, and this disgusting shit was covered up for a long time by officials. It should never be forgotten. As this is a thread called what is happening to our country, it’s relevant, and maybe it will remind people if they have a daughter or granddaughter to be as vigilant as possible for their safety, as there are more depraved predators out there than people think.

It won't be forgotten, but it's a tad random to just bring it up. Any of us could dredge up the moors murders, or any other hideous act. Graphic detail of what these sick people did just isn't needed. 

[hypochondriac]

20 hours ago, egg said:

It won't be forgotten, but it's a tad random to just bring it up. Any of us could dredge up the moors murders, or any other hideous act. Graphic detail of what these sick people did just isn't needed. 

It was all over twitter - not sure why- and I was shocked and appaled by the details as I hadn't seen it before. I would say it very much is important to read about. 

Edit: now being remarked upon by MPs so clearly of relevance to this thread. 

Edited January 1 by hypochondriac

[whelk]

Fucking hell the state of that Glaswegian paedo gang? Mutated fuckers. Genuinely didn’t think you could get that ugly 

[hypochondriac]

5 minutes ago, whelk said:

Fucking hell the state of that Glaswegian paedo gang? Mutated fuckers. Genuinely didn’t think you could get that ugly 

Retty standard for Scotland! All seriousness yet more evil people in the world. We're getting a couple of instant stream of terrible acts committed against children which is terribly upsetting. The only slight positive is at least they are being subjected to some sort of justice now. 

[Gloucester Saint]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

Fucking hell the state of that Glaswegian paedo gang? Mutated fuckers. Genuinely didn’t think you could get that ugly 

Here’s what - or who - Whelk is referring to https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2ld7enjj9eo

Heroin junkies one and all, perverted ones which is even worse.

[Gloucester Saint]

I think she got confused between celebrity and notoriety https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg9qpp5zpro

[whelk]

58 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Here’s what - or who - Whelk is referring to https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2ld7enjj9eo

Heroin junkies one and all, perverted ones which is even worse.

How do smackheads get so fat?

[Gloucester Saint]

I’m glad my dinner is a while ago. Man Utd get everywhere don’t they?

[Turkish]

15 year old boy stabbed to death at school in Sheffield. I don’t know what the answer is but this is seemingly an everyday occurrence now. Surely it’s time to start treating those carrying knives the same as carrying guns 

[ecuk268]

Just listened to a bit of a talk given by Suella Braverman to the Heritage Foundation, the right-wing US think tank.

She proposed that, in 20 years, the UK could be a nuclear-armed Islamic state and be a greater threat to the US than either Russia or China.

Considering that Muslims make up 7% of the population and many of those are not Islamist, it would take a pretty dramatic electoral swing to bring them to power. 

This woman was the Home Secretary and is still an MP. The fact that she feels the need to spout this bollox suggests that she's becoming a bit desperate for attention or is she just deluded? 

[Weston Super Saint]

Lucy Letby.

Baby killer, murderer, psychopath, wrong 'un, misunderstood or an enormous miscarriage of justice?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce8y28ny1n0o

Quote

Convicted serial killer Lucy Letby is back in the news after a panel of medical experts working with her defence team said they believe the 35-year-old did not commit the murders.

Fourteen senior clinicians from around the world have analysed the medical evidence against Letby, including British doctor Neena Modi, a former president of the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health.

No smoke without fire or a complete non story?

[hypochondriac]

45 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Lucy Letby.

Baby killer, murderer, psychopath, wrong 'un, misunderstood or an enormous miscarriage of justice?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce8y28ny1n0o

No smoke without fire or a complete non story?

Either option is horrifying. The fact it may have got this far and there's even a chance she is innocent is terrible. You have experts on both sides saying completely opposing things it's very difficult to know the truth. 

[benjii]

Lucy Letby case is a good example of why we don't have the death penalty.

[Mustang Saint]

On 03/02/2025 at 19:18, Turkish said:

15 year old boy stabbed to death at school in Sheffield. I don’t know what the answer is but this is seemingly an everyday occurrence now. Surely it’s time to start treating those carrying knives the same as carrying guns 

And unfortunately it will only get worse, my wife left education in October, she taught for 7 years and it absolutely broke her mentally and physically.

She had a hammer pulled on her by a year 8, verbal abuse, threatened to be punched by a pupil whilst stood with my stepdaughter and told to watch her fucking lip. I ended up having to put CCTV up as kids knew where we lived as they knew what car my wife drove.

 

System is fucking broken and it won't get any better, kids are fucking feral and it's the parents to blame a lot of the time!

[egg]

2 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Lucy Letby.

Baby killer, murderer, psychopath, wrong 'un, misunderstood or an enormous miscarriage of justice?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce8y28ny1n0o

No smoke without fire or a complete non story?

It's interesting for sure. The case against her never looked particularly strong, lots of it was circumstantial. The fact that she researched the families of the deceased though, and kept records of the deaths, was plain bizarre and must have played a part in removing any meaningful doubt from the jurors minds. Horrible case. 

[egg]

On 03/02/2025 at 19:18, Turkish said:

15 year old boy stabbed to death at school in Sheffield. I don’t know what the answer is but this is seemingly an everyday occurrence now. Surely it’s time to start treating those carrying knives the same as carrying guns 

Yep. We'll never stop the supply of knives (anyone can pay £3 for a drywall knife from Screwfix, for example) so sentences need to be tough on this, with zero tolerance. That said, there is nobody to pull the kids up and search them. Society is shot. 

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, benjii said:

Lucy Letby case is a good example of why we don't have the death penalty.

I personally would never advocate for the death penalty for someone like Letby where there was always an element of doubt. If it were ever introduced it should only ever be for the worst criminals and where there is zero doubt. She wouldn't qualify in that scenario. 

[whelk]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Yep. We'll never stop the supply of knives (anyone can pay £3 for a drywall knife from Screwfix, for example) so sentences need to be tough on this, with zero tolerance. That said, there is nobody to pull the kids up and search them. Society is shot. 

You got to try and sort the societal issues not harsher punishing. These kids in gangs will slay anyone they think is ‘disrespecting’ them regardless that they are throwing their lives away. Just culture is fucked as their aspirations are just to impress their mates not make something of their lives- but then what can be a realistic goal for them? This is why I generally loathe Tories as all the cuts to youth services just make problem worse. It won’t solve it of course but if some are drawn to more positive pastimes then others will follow. These kids aren’t all bad from the start just have no role models and go down the only route they think they have.

The gang culture is even more prevalent when they get locked up as well so most aren’t coming out reformed in any way.

To have a decent society it costs money but many don’t want to accept that. More policing, better prison conditions and staffing and a probation system not driven by profit on contracts would help.

 

[benjii]

58 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I personally would never advocate for the death penalty for someone like Letby where there was always an element of doubt. If it were ever introduced it should only ever be for the worst criminals and where there is zero doubt. She wouldn't qualify in that scenario. 

Who decides "zero doubt"?

[hypochondriac]

Just now, benjii said:

Who decides "zero doubt"?

I would say that numerous witnesses, camera and video footage and the defendent pleading guilty would be a good example. 

[egg]

2 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

I personally would never advocate for the death penalty for someone like Letby where there was always an element of doubt. If it were ever introduced it should only ever be for the worst criminals and where there is zero doubt. She wouldn't qualify in that scenario. 

There have been multiple cases down the years where it was felt that there was zero doubt, only to be proven otherwise years after the event. Miscarriages of justice happen, and thankfully we're more civilised than to reintroduce the death penalty. 

[egg]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

You got to try and sort the societal issues not harsher punishing. These kids in gangs will slay anyone they think is ‘disrespecting’ them regardless that they are throwing their lives away. Just culture is fucked as their aspirations are just to impress their mates not make something of their lives- but then what can be a realistic goal for them? This is why I generally loathe Tories as all the cuts to youth services just make problem worse. It won’t solve it of course but if some are drawn to more positive pastimes then others will follow. These kids aren’t all bad from the start just have no role models and go down the only route they think they have.

The gang culture is even more prevalent when they get locked up as well so most aren’t coming out reformed in any way.

To have a decent society it costs money but many don’t want to accept that. More policing, better prison conditions and staffing and a probation system not driven by profit on contracts would help.

 

I get that, but there's a conflation of issues in there. Society needs fixing, I agree, but solving societal issues to reduce possession and use of knives, at best, will take time. If not punishment, what do you suggest as a deterrent in the interim? 

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

it were ever introduced it should only ever be for the worst criminals and where there is zero doubt. She wouldn't qualify in that scenario. 

Surely if there’s doubt, the accused should be acquitted. 

[aintforever]

11 minutes ago, egg said:

There have been multiple cases down the years where it was felt that there was zero doubt, only to be proven otherwise years after the event. Miscarriages of justice happen, and thankfully we're more civilised than to reintroduce the death penalty. 

Isn't the threshold for conviction 'beyond reasonable doubt'? There could easily be a higher level for death penalty cases.

[egg]

5 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Isn't the threshold for conviction 'beyond reasonable doubt'? There could easily be a higher level for death penalty cases.

Easily?! No, and how does that address doubt appearing after the event such as has happened with miscarriages of justice? Say it's discovered that witnesses lied or fabricated evidence that was so compelling that there was no doubt? What then if the accused is dead? 

Anyway, it's a non point as there's zero prospect of the death penalty even being discussed at a serious level. 

[aintforever]

2 minutes ago, egg said:

Easily?! No, and how does that address doubt appearing after the event such as has happened with miscarriages of justice? Say it's discovered that witnesses lied or fabricated evidence that was so compelling that there was no doubt? What then if the accused is dead? 

Anyway, it's a non point as there's zero prospect of the death penalty even being discussed at a serious level. 

If a person's guilt relies on what someone said then it is nowhere near 'no doubt'. 

The level of doubt in the Southport case is massively different to the Letby case. That's the only type of situation I would ever favour it. You are right though it won't happen.

 

[badgerx16]

3 hours ago, Mustang Saint said:

And unfortunately it will only get worse, my wife left education in October, she taught for 7 years and it absolutely broke her mentally and physically.

She had a hammer pulled on her by a year 8, verbal abuse, threatened to be punched by a pupil whilst stood with my stepdaughter and told to watch her fucking lip. I ended up having to put CCTV up as kids knew where we lived as they knew what car my wife drove.

 

System is fucking broken and it won't get any better, kids are fucking feral and it's the parents to blame a lot of the time!

My wife taught reception / years 1&2, and she was spat at, kicked, and bitten.

[sadoldgit]

For me there are three very strong arguments against bringing back capital punishment.

1. There is no way back from an unsafe conviction once the accused has been executed.

2. Capital punishment has never been a failsafe deterrent.

3. If we believe that it is wrong to take a life, it is also wrong for the state to take a life.

As for knife crime, it needs to be treated now as an emergency. More stop on search on youths (not just black youths). Stronger measures taken for those found to be in possession. Tougher measures taken in schools against disruptive children. Greater resources put into out of school activities for youths. Better policing over access to social media amongst the young. So many areas that need to be addressed but it needs to be done now and it needs to take on a much higher level of urgency. 

 

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Surely if there’s doubt, the accused should be acquitted. 

No that's resonable doubt. I'm talking about where there is no possible way they couldn't have done it. Like the Rudakubana case for example. 

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, egg said:

There have been multiple cases down the years where it was felt that there was zero doubt, only to be proven otherwise years after the event. Miscarriages of justice happen, and thankfully we're more civilised than to reintroduce the death penalty. 

What cases? The cases I'm thinking of it would be impossible for that to be the case. 

[hypochondriac]

25 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

For me there are three very strong arguments against bringing back capital punishment.

1. There is no way back from an unsafe conviction once the accused has been executed.

2. Capital punishment has never been a failsafe deterrent.

3. If we believe that it is wrong to take a life, it is also wrong for the state to take a life.

As for knife crime, it needs to be treated now as an emergency. More stop on search on youths (not just black youths). Stronger measures taken for those found to be in possession. Tougher measures taken in schools against disruptive children. Greater resources put into out of school activities for youths. Better policing over access to social media amongst the young. So many areas that need to be addressed but it needs to be done now and it needs to take on a much higher level of urgency. 

 

An interesting argument given how staunchly you were in favour of assisted suicide. 

[egg]

3 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

What cases? The cases I'm thinking of it would be impossible for that to be the case. 

Google "miscarriages of justice". 

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

My wife taught reception / years 1&2, and she was spat at, kicked, and bitten.

What did the kids do?

[Weston Super Saint]

4 hours ago, whelk said:

, better prison conditions and staffing and a probation system not driven by profit on contracts would help.

 

For the Southport killer as well?

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Google "miscarriages of justice". 

As usual with you no specifics and you talk in generalities. Go and ask chatgpt for any examples of terrible crimes where the crime itself is indisputable. Not hard to think of a few. 

You can oppose the death penalty for many reasons but in the case of Rudakubana for instance, you can't oppose it because there may be a miscarriage of justice in that case. The idea is absurd and there's no dispute that he carried it out. 

Edited February 5 by hypochondriac

[benjii]

3 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

I would say that numerous witnesses, camera and video footage and the defendent pleading guilty would be a good example. 

So, is that what the law will say? 

Penalty shall be death where there are witnesses, camera and video footage and the defendant pleads guilty?

[hypochondriac]

12 minutes ago, benjii said:

So, is that what the law will say? 

Penalty shall be death where there are witnesses, camera and video footage and the defendant pleads guilty?

No. The death penalty can be on the table where the crime is sufficiently egregious, where no remorse is shown, where there are no mitigating factors and where the totality of evidence is such that there is certainty that the crime was committed by the individual in question. 

All I'm saying is that under those circumstances I would not be opposed to the death penalty. 

Edited February 5 by hypochondriac

[Mixedkebab]

Prison is like a badge of honour to a lot of these little dickheads. Public humiliation would be a better deterrent- Making them walk round their estate, with an old fashioned bobbys helmet on and dressed like Madonna on her vogue tour, carrying a placard saying “I ❤️ the Royal Family” would be more effective.

[hypochondriac]

6 minutes ago, Mixedkebab said:

Prison is like a badge of honour to a lot of these little dickheads. Public humiliation would be a better deterrent- Making them walk round their estate, with an old fashioned bobbys helmet on and dressed like Madonna on her vogue tour, carrying a placard saying “I ❤️ the Royal Family” would be more effective.

I would also support this. Force extinction rebellion protestors to drive round a track in a jeep for five hours, make some of the vegan protestors eat a steak. All good ideas. 

[whelk]

34 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I would also support this. Force extinction rebellion protestors to drive round a track in a jeep for five hours, make some of the vegan protestors eat a steak. All good ideas. 

Would you make far right protestors be showered with love?

[hypochondriac]

4 minutes ago, whelk said:

Would you make far right protestors be showered with love?

Interracial bukkake party. 

[Gloucester Saint]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

I would also support this. Force extinction rebellion protestors to drive round a track in a jeep for five hours, make some of the vegan protestors eat a steak. All good ideas. 

On that basis, John Westwood should have been made to wear the shirt of pain (SFC) after urinating on his seat in the SMS away end.

Of course, the shirt would have to be processed as carefully as nuclear processing waste at Sellafield afterwards. 

[hypochondriac]

30 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

On that basis, John Westwood should have been made to wear the shirt of pain (SFC) after urinating on his seat in the SMS away end.

Of course, the shirt would have to be processed as carefully as nuclear processing waste at Sellafield afterwards. 

I wouldn't want to subject the shirt to that hideous ordeal. Maybe a MLT picture tattooed on his forehead. 

[Gloucester Saint]

This really did my head in https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cg7zexzndvko

A paranoid schizophrenic not taking his anti-psychotic meds because he doesn’t like needles? Take your meds or you are incarcerated and formally sectioned until you do so regularly so as to be less of a risk. If that’s for 50 years, fine.

No ifs, no buts, no excuses. And it should have been ruthlessly enforced, if it had, those people in Nottingham would be here today and others wouldn’t be left with life-changing injuries.

Edited February 5 by Gloucester Saint