The World Cup Thread

[SotonianWill]

32 minutes ago, aintforever said:

The pressure obviously got to him. To be fair it was a bit of a freak situation being the second penalty and against his club team mate but fact is he fluffed it. There are players out there who would stayed cool and just waited for the keeper to move and rolled it in the other side.

The top players hold their nerve even with a second penalty, as with Messi the other night similar penalty to Kane for the first and the second in the shootout was so calm.  

[whelk]

23 minutes ago, SotonianWill said:

The top players hold their nerve even with a second penalty, as with Messi the other night similar penalty to Kane for the first and the second in the shootout was so calm.  

Messi has missed shedloads of pens

[whelk]

So many seem to have outcome bias. Reason bookies offer odds on every game as the outcome can vary dependent on often random factors. When I played I could score a hat trick one weak and be poor the next. Happens everywhere and whilst no  fan of Kane he hasn’t let us down before from penalties. 

[East Kent Saint]

But Messi has ‘missed’ several penalties recently , Kane has missed the odd one in the prem as well , it’s what happens .

[S-Clarke]

3 minutes ago, whelk said:

Messi has missed shedloads of pens

Exactly, I remember Mbappe missing a crucial pen at the Euro's as well.

Ditto Lewandowski in a game this tournament, but he had a chance to re-take. Pens are a lottery, no one is immune to missing. There's more to it than just technical ability. 90% is in the head. I don't hold anything against Kane, nor should any sane football fan.

[saintant]

58 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

The contrast between his two penalty kicks was remarkable. The first was firm and confident and just what everybody expected but the second was a result of overthinking it. You don’t normally see penalty kicks get ballooned over the bar. That usually only happens in an extreme situation.

I agree with people who say Kane should have made absolutely certain his penalty was on target so that the keeper had to save it. Having said that, none of us have been in his shoes. Taking a crucial penalty with the whole nation depending on you must produce a tremendous cocktail of adrenaline, stress, pressure and responsibility. It is easy to understand why so many are missed and Kane will be feeling worse than any single one of us who, so desperately, wanted him to score. 

[whelk]

1 hour ago, SotonianWill said:

The top players hold their nerve even with a second penalty, as with Messi the other night similar penalty to Kane for the first and the second in the shootout was so calm.  

 

[whelk]

1 hour ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Least of all you.

I see my role here is primarily to toughen folk up and talk shit

[Turkish]

Some strange decisions and incompetent refereeing in both the England v France game and Holland v Argentina, decisions favouring France and Argentina mainly. This would set up a final of of Mbappe v Messi who both play for PSG who by coincidence are owned by Qatar Sport Investments 🤔🤔🤔🤔

[fanimal]

Spot on (excuse the pun!) Turkish!

His run up was all wrong though standing foot too far forward and it gave way a bit…

Oh for Rickie Lambert at Millwall!!!

[saintant]

27 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Some strange decisions and incompetent refereeing in both the England v France game and Holland v Argentina, decisions favouring France and Argentina mainly. This would set up a final of of Mbappe v Messi who both play for PSG who by coincidence are owned by Qatar Sport Investments 🤔🤔🤔🤔

Very interesting point. Is it a conspiracy?  I will watch the two semi-finals and in particular the refereeing with added interest 🙂

Edited 11 December, 2022 by saintant

[Turkish]

10 minutes ago, saintant said:

Very interesting point. Is it a conspiracy?  I will watch the two semi-finals and in particular the refereeing with added interest 🙂

I’m sure a competition run by a corrupt organisation hosted in a corrupt country would run it with honesty and integrity 😇

[Kingsland Codger]

1 hour ago, East Kent Saint said:

But Messi has ‘missed’ several penalties recently , Kane has missed the odd one in the prem as well , it’s what happens .

Including one he skied high-and-handsome at St Mary's. Oh how we laughed!

Spookily, earlier this autumn Kane scored a penalty against Frankfurt but failed to score a second in the same match.

[Window Cleaner]

So France-Morocco. Genial, nigh on two hours of whistling and then some street riots to follow. Morocco ar a couple of players down I think, unless the red card they got doesn't count for the semi/ Don't think that their CB will be fit though.

 

On the England front, Southgate needs to step down, he's not going to win a major tournament anyway with his team selections and we might as well start with a new bloke for the euros.

Edited 11 December, 2022 by Window Cleaner

[Hawkswood]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2022/dec/11/france-overcame-england-because-champion-teams-win-the-big-moments?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Good article here

[Whitey Grandad]

8 minutes ago, Hawkswood said:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2022/dec/11/france-overcame-england-because-champion-teams-win-the-big-moments?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Good article here

Yes it is. It’s a bit obvious though that if a team doesn’t win the big moments then they are unlikely to be champions.

[saintant]

12 minutes ago, Hawkswood said:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2022/dec/11/france-overcame-england-because-champion-teams-win-the-big-moments?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Good article here

Just read it and it struck me as a load of pretentious froth and nonsense. Easy to support his points after the game. It would have had more clout if he wrote this article ahead of the match and predicted what would transpire including the result. 

[cloggy saint]

22 minutes ago, Window Cleaner said:

On the England front, Southgate needs to step down, he's not going to win a major tournament anyway with his team selections and we might as well start with a new bloke for the euros.

And just who might this new bloke be? 

[Turkish]

34 minutes ago, Window Cleaner said:

So France-Morocco. Genial, nigh on two hours of whistling and then some street riots to follow. Morocco ar a couple of players down I think, unless the red card they got doesn't count for the semi/ Don't think that their CB will be fit though.

 

On the England front, Southgate needs to step down, he's not going to win a major tournament anyway with his team selections and we might as well start with a new bloke for the euros.

Get Pep or Klopp in, yes?

Edited 11 December, 2022 by Turkish

[adrian lord]

1 hour ago, saintant said:

Very interesting point. Is it a conspiracy?  I will watch the two semi-finals and in particular the refereeing with added interest 🙂

https://www.ft.com/content/1023d8aa-1fa4-4e6f-abbb-68ef101ccb72
 

Yet more corruption… the rulers clearly have a mindset that they can simply buy anything they want. 

[Saint Billy]

We didn’t start playing progressive and attacking football until after the french scored. Sometimes too much caution is a dangerous thing. We gave the ball away too much and in dangerous positions when attempting to play safe passes.

Yes the ref was crap, but the french were always dangerous when attacking whereas we were tentative and hopeful.

I like Southgate but I think he instills too much caution in our game which stifles our play. I’d prefer we played right from the word go like we started to after the french scored.

[Window Cleaner]

10 minutes ago, cloggy saint said:

And just who might this new bloke be? 

Klopp would be my choice yes, doubt that he wants the job though.  I might ask Arteta to consider the role. 

I think English football needs to broaden it's horizons, don't all but one of the English players play in the Premier League ?  Only one of the French side regulars plays in France, the rest are dotted about the European Championships. Might make them more flexible perhaps. Just a thought.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

Some strange decisions and incompetent refereeing in both the England v France game and Holland v Argentina, decisions favouring France and Argentina mainly. This would set up a final of of Mbappe v Messi who both play for PSG who by coincidence are owned by Qatar Sport Investments 🤔🤔🤔🤔

I find this highly believable. Something was not right with that ref (and VAR!)

[Daft Kerplunk]

30 minutes ago, saintant said:

Just read it and it struck me as a load of pretentious froth and nonsense. Easy to support his points after the game. It would have had more clout if he wrote this article ahead of the match and predicted what would transpire including the result. 

Not sure it’s pretentious. Almost the opposite in that all the details are what get pretentiously obsessed over these days (xg, final third receptions - so what on this pointless stat, forced turnovers aka tackles), but when it comes down to it, the best teams find a way because of their footballing quality and inner belief. That’s all the journalist is saying here. Think of Ralph with his winning duals chat, taking an age for players to learn our way etc. It’s football speak in an era of mass middle managers who love a spreadsheet or PowerPoint more than the actual game.

Bellingham is fantastic but he was letting the ref get to him yesterday. His time will come, and hopefully it will happen for England at some point. Unlike Sancho, let’s hope he doesn’t waste his talent by leaving Dortmund for Man Utd. Players like Kane probably need to play in teams where the expectation is realistic too. Tottenham are consistent also rans even though they believe they’re contenders. 

Southgate is very good and in many ways, the example of leadership that would be useful across the country right now but he lacks that one thing that takes you to the next step. A little risk taking that leads to confidence in being able to find a way. 
 

 

[BERMUDASAINT]

 

3 hours ago, cloggy saint said:

 

And yet literally thousands have done it.

 

And they all know they bottled it, choked, brain fart, fluffed their kick, cracked under the pressure. 

 

A penalty takers worst night mare is their brain. The pressure become too great and you miss a huge goal from close range with a dead ball. No respected footballer, especially a pro paid millions will miss a penalty and say it was to hard to do? They will know they messed up and it should not have happened if the nerves did not get the better of them. 

 

Harry knows he choked. But it's understandable.........we have seen thousands do it.............So thousands have choked, and wish they could have it back BECAUSE THEY KNOW THEY SHOULD AT LEAST HIT THIER TARGET.......

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 11 December, 2022 by BERMUDASAINT

[East Kent Saint]

26 minutes ago, Saint Billy said:

We didn’t start playing progressive and attacking football until after the french scored. Sometimes too much caution is a dangerous thing. We gave the ball away too much and in dangerous positions when attempting to play safe passes.

Yes the ref was crap, but the french were always dangerous when attacking whereas we were tentative and hopeful.

I like Southgate but I think he instills too much caution in our game which stifles our play. I’d prefer we played right from the word go like we started to after the french scored.

England had 8 shots on target from 16 attempts and France 5 from 8 . 

France’s first was a result of England not being cautious , having too many men too far forward when the counter came . Their second was headed at close quarters onto Maguire’s shoulder which put it out of reach for Pickford . 

[Wade Garrett]

The Sun are looking pretty fucking stupid today.

[BERMUDASAINT]

2 hours ago, Turkish said:

Some strange decisions and incompetent refereeing in both the England v France game and Holland v Argentina, decisions favouring France and Argentina mainly. This would set up a final of of Mbappe v Messi who both play for PSG who by coincidence are owned by Qatar Sport Investments 🤔🤔🤔🤔

Very interesting,  love a good conspiracy theory,  and by the looks of that ref it could be true. I was appalled by that refs lack of calls, letting var make the call on the Kane tackle near the box,  shove on mount....... this was ineptitude at the highest level, the tackle on saka that lead to the first goal by France ....he was soooo weak that the only reason a card was shown for mounts blatant shove was because England players called for it.... he was a pupet that should be no where near this tournament.  Unless he was there to make a certain outcome happen......

Edited 11 December, 2022 by BERMUDASAINT

[cloggy saint]

3 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

The Sun are looking pretty fucking stupid today.

Are there any days they don't look pretty fucking stupid?

[cloggy saint]

42 minutes ago, Window Cleaner said:

Klopp would be my choice yes, doubt that he wants the job though.  I might ask Arteta to consider the role. 

I think English football needs to broaden it's horizons, don't all but one of the English players play in the Premier League ?  Only one of the French side regulars plays in France, the rest are dotted about the European Championships. Might make them more flexible perhaps. Just a thought.

How exactly do you implement this? Force foreign clubs to buy English players?  

[Turkish]

46 minutes ago, Window Cleaner said:

Klopp would be my choice yes, doubt that he wants the job though.  I might ask Arteta to consider the role. 

I think English football needs to broaden it's horizons, don't all but one of the English players play in the Premier League ?  Only one of the French side regulars plays in France, the rest are dotted about the European Championships. Might make them more flexible perhaps. Just a thought.

Why would Arteta leave Arsenal to manage England? Managing your country isn’t the pinnacle of a managers career anymore. Most international managers are younger guys who aren’t that great or old managers past their best. You’re having a laugh if you think any top premier league manager would take the job.

as for English players playing around Europe that’s because of the premier league, where the money and top players want to be. It’s nothing to do with the league they play in, a lot of the best players in the world play in the English league and the standard is higher than international football. We’ve got players playing in the Italian and German league but only one of them made the squad, there is a reason for that.

[FarehamSaintJames]

2 hours ago, fanimal said:

Spot on (excuse the pun!) Turkish!

His run up was all wrong though standing foot too far forward and it gave way a bit…

Oh for Rickie Lambert at Millwall!!!

I remember Rickie talking about that penalty at Millwall. He said it was the most nervous he’d ever felt taking a penalty because it was to win the game and he ended up kicking it with the inside of his heel and it just kissed the keepers foot as it went straight down the middle. 😅

[FarehamSaintJames]

17 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

The Sun are looking pretty fucking stupid today.

Well this seems a largely unneeded statement that everyone already knew 🤣

[Whitey Grandad]

31 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

England had 8 shots on target from 16 attempts and France 5 from 8 . 

France’s first was a result of England not being cautious , having too many men too far forward when the counter came . Their second was headed at close quarters onto Maguire’s shoulder which put it out of reach for Pickford . 

The cross for their second should have been blocked at the source. Which of our players was it who waved a leg at it half-heartedly after it had been kicked? Griezmann had too much time to be able to look up and pick his spot.

[AlexLaw76]

On reflection, the subs (again) were the part that probably let us down (again).

Ralph-esque with the substitutions for a while now

[sadoldgit]

1 hour ago, Daft Kerplunk said:

Not sure it’s pretentious. Almost the opposite in that all the details are what get pretentiously obsessed over these days (xg, final third receptions - so what on this pointless stat, forced turnovers aka tackles), but when it comes down to it, the best teams find a way because of their footballing quality and inner belief. That’s all the journalist is saying here. Think of Ralph with his winning duals chat, taking an age for players to learn our way etc. It’s football speak in an era of mass middle managers who love a spreadsheet or PowerPoint more than the actual game.

Bellingham is fantastic but he was letting the ref get to him yesterday. His time will come, and hopefully it will happen for England at some point. Unlike Sancho, let’s hope he doesn’t waste his talent by leaving Dortmund for Man Utd. Players like Kane probably need to play in teams where the expectation is realistic too. Tottenham are consistent also rans even though they believe they’re contenders. 

Southgate is very good and in many ways, the example of leadership that would be useful across the country right now but he lacks that one thing that takes you to the next step. A little risk taking that leads to confidence in being able to find a way. 
 

 

Southgate ticks many boxes but the one he doesn’t tick is “winner.” He is a typical Brit, the plucky loser, gracious in defeat because that is what we do. Lose well. I expect they will keep him on until the end of his contract (the end of the Euros) but if we are serious about winning it we should probably try someone new. Pochettino would be an obvious candidate but it is a moot point as I can’t see him resigning or the FA sacking him.

Two well matched teams last night. France better in the first half with us finally putting a performance in the second. I’m not convinced that we would have gone on to win if Kane had scored his second penalty. The French seem to find a bit of extra quality when needed whereas we, as we pretty much nearly always do, choke. I am pretty sanguine about the result today. Although it grates to lose a match full of poor decisions, having watched England and Saints for 56 years I have learned not to expect too much from either!
 

 

 

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, sadoldgit said:

Southgate ticks many boxes but the one he doesn’t tick is “winner.” He is a typical Brit, the plucky loser, gracious in defeat because that is what we do. Lose well. I expect they will keep him on until the end of his contract (the end of the Euros) but if we are serious about winning it we should probably try someone new. Pochettino would be an obvious candidate but it is a moot point as I can’t see him resigning or the FA sacking him.

Two well matched teams last night. France better in the first half with us finally putting a performance in the second. I’m not convinced that we would have gone on to win if Kane had scored his second penalty. The French seem to find a bit of extra quality when needed whereas we, as we pretty much nearly always do, choke. I am pretty sanguine about the result today. Although it grates to lose a match full of poor decisions, having watched England and Saints for 56 years I have learned not to expect too much from either!
 

 

 

I agree with you.  When Southgate leaves, what good teams will be all over him?  Few at best in the Premier League, certainly none of the top 6/8/10

[Charlie Wayman]

The only question that concerns Gareth Southgate's future as England manager comes from an assessment of the further potential of the squad under his tutelage. Is it a work still in progress or has the process peaked?

If we set aside a slight uptick in our performances in this World Cup, you'd have to say that results between the Euros and the WC have been generally disappointing suggesting that the process has indeed peaked. If so, it can be argued that rather than endure more of the same for the next two years it is time for a change now. Wasn't this the basis of the argument that led to Ralph's exit from here?

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

I agree with you.  When Southgate leaves, what good teams will be all over him?  Few at best in the Premier League, certainly none of the top 6/8/10

Likes working with young players ✅

loves a good bit of virtue signalling ✅

wont ruffle the feathers of the board ✅

most other premier league clubs won’t be interested ✅

I can think of one current premier league club……

[Sunglasses Ron]

4 hours ago, Saint Billy said:

We didn’t start playing progressive and attacking football until after the french scored. Sometimes too much caution is a dangerous thing. We gave the ball away too much and in dangerous positions when attempting to play safe passes.

Yes the ref was crap, but the french were always dangerous when attacking whereas we were tentative and hopeful.

I like Southgate but I think he instills too much caution in our game which stifles our play. I’d prefer we played right from the word go like we started to after the french scored.

Agreed.

At the end of the day, France were never behind and didn’t have to toil too much to score twice when they needed to.

We can talk all we want about how we were the better team but that’s because we were trailing for the majority of the game and had to do something about it.

I don’t think this was the close / unjust defeat that many are making out. At the end of the day, they stepped up to the mark and we didn’t.

Edited 11 December, 2022 by Sunglasses Ron

[Winnersaint]

England certainly stepped up to the challenge. The French didn't have to. It was as if England were aspirational while the French already knew. Sign of a very, very good team.

[Badger]

21 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Likes working with young players ✅

loves a good bit of virtue signalling ✅

wont ruffle the feathers of the board ✅

most other premier league clubs won’t be interested ✅

I can think of one current premier league club……

for all the above reasons I hope Southgate continues with England. 

On top of which, for those saying he's taken England as far as he can, no one else of any note would want the England job and do better.

[Turkish]

5 minutes ago, Badger said:

for all the above reasons I hope Southgate continues with England. 

On top of which, for those saying he's taken England as far as he can, no one else of any note would want the England job and do better.

I completely agree. 

[AlexLaw76]

6 minutes ago, Badger said:

for all the above reasons I hope Southgate continues with England. 

On top of which, for those saying he's taken England as far as he can, no one else of any note would want the England job and do better.

how do you know?

[Turkish]

Just now, AlexLaw76 said:

how do you know?

It still Sam Allerdyces squad 

Edited 11 December, 2022 by Turkish

[badgerx16]

 

[Disco Stu]

42 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

 

It's like a prophecy.

[Whitey Grandad]

45 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

It's like a prophecy.

He planted the seeds of doubt.

[Dark Munster]

6 hours ago, cloggy saint said:

Are there any days they don't look pretty fucking stupid?

 

[Lighthouse]

I reckon we should have five potential penalty takers lined up on the edge of the box. Once the ref is happy and the 'keeper has finished all of his time wasting b*llocks, then the captain picks someone at random from those five to step forward and take it, immediately. Having less time to overthink things and with the keeper not knowing who to psyche out might give us an advantage.