The World Cup Thread

[SNSUN]

30 minutes ago, harvey said:

Southgate is 'ok' and 'safe' for an England manager but will never win anything.

I'm not a Southgate fan but I won't blame him for this one. I said pre-match if he fucks about with the starting line up and goes 3 at the back then a loss would be on his shoulders. He didn't. He went ballsy and played the starting line up from the Senegal game. Those players deserved their spots. Will he win us anything? Depends if he learns from his mistakes.  He could be this generation's Joachim Löw.

 

It's a tough defeat to take and you could argue (MLT school of penalty taking) Kane bottled it and should have at least tested the keeper but for me, on paper, our defence isn't good enough. We need 2 CBs and a LB of quality to emerge and we have a chance. 

 

Euros maybe... 

[Andrew Watson]

Just to think Southgate alegedly declined to speak  or let the players speaK to MLT about the psycology of penalty taking.

In the last 3 tournaments we have lost to the first decent side we played in all 3. Croatia in 2018, Italy in 2021 and today. Southgate has wasted the best squads we have had for years.

Never mind, its all about opinions.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

If Southgate was a club manager, it would be like sacking a manager who got a decent place in a top league and who had also got to a final. So, no one is going to...oh... 🙂

The tournaments of my youth seemed more exciting. But I watched lots of highlights while back, and England struggled quite often. Arguably when gaps between nations were larger.

No doubt a lot of us see the attacking talent England have, and want to see that on the pitch. It might even work and we blitz a couple of teams. But it would be found out soon enough and England would get countered and knocked out, if they even got there.

Southgate has a track record at major tournaments. It can be cagey and risk based possession. Sometimes it's hard to transition from that into something more dynamic. But it's a solid foundation that can be used to bring in the flair at key times. He deserves a lot of credit for patiently fielding hacks questions demanding a line of attacking players call make the side. It was a near thing tonight, and I'd like to see how the squad evolves under him for the next tournament.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

2 hours ago, Pilchards said:

I actually disagree with this comment.

Got the strongest bench in world football and he never even put on fresh legs to continue putting pressure on the French.

Dabbled for so long that they go and scored before Southgate changed it.

As for taking off Saka is laughable. Grealish for Bellingham as he was having a stinker plus Rashford on for Henderson who was blowing out his arse.

We'd have got destroyed with those subs, you're basically asking to put on five forwards against the world champions

[Ex Lion Tamer]

2 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

Because I’m not awe-inspired by a manager who managed to beat Iran, Wales and Senegal (without Mané) and was down to the bare bones of only having Kane, Saka, Foden, Rashford, Grealish, Maddison, Bellingham, Rice, Phillips, TAA, and Walker to build a team around?

He’s done the same as the last two tournaments, win the bog standard games when we’re clear favourites and lose to a team of comparable talent which played better.

We missed a penalty and should have had another. It's fine margins at this level and we didn't get the rub off the green. You can't put that at Southgate's door

[Dark Munster]

1 hour ago, harvey said:

Today was going to be a completely different game than getting out of the group stages. We got lucky against the USA, played very well against Senegal, but today's game played out as I expected.

I'm not disappointed, I just think we're an 'ok' team...nothing particularly exciting and no way world champions.

One could argue that's also true of the four remaining teams. But one will be.

(France? Not the team of 4 years ago, and England more than matched them.)

[cloggy saint]

Unfortunately in sport the best team doesn't always win, and this was the case tonight. We shaded it overall and I'm pretty sure if Kane had buried the penalty we'd have won in extra time, being pegged back twice would've been pretty deflating imo. I'd like to see Southgate stay on, apart from his tournament record the players clearly like him and that can't be underrated. 

[skintsaint]

Frustrating loss, France were there for the taking but didn't start until we went 1 down. For all our good work tonight we didn't create many good chances and lucky France were clumsy enough to gift us pens. Shocking 2nd penalty by Kane. This squad will only get stronger for it and will be going well into the Euros and WC 26.

[rooney]

FRance scored two goals in open play and we could not score any it is simple as that. Le Bleues, therefore, were worthy winners.

[CB Fry]

7 hours ago, Andrew Watson said:

Just to think Southgate alegedly declined to speak  or let the players speaK to MLT about the psycology of penalty taking.

In the last 3 tournaments we have lost to the first decent side we played in all 3. Croatia in 2018, Italy in 2021 and today. Southgate has wasted the best squads we have had for years.

Never mind, its all about opinions.

The same MLT who did nothing for a single second at any major tournament in his entire life? I don't think he has anything to offer Harry Kane who I believe has scored a few penalties in his life. 

I don't think Gareth Southgate is remotely interested in the shit MLT comes out with on Nigel Farage's TV show. He's got an actual real job.

Southgate has been by some distance the best England manager since colour television come in so I can't see he has "wasted" anything.

 

Edited 11 December, 2022 by CB Fry

[whelk]

58 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

The same MLT who did nothing for a single second at any major tournament in his entire life? I don't think he has anything to offer Harry Kane who I believe has scored a few penalties in his life. 

I don't think Gareth Southgate is remotely interested in the shit MLT comes out with on Nigel Farage's TV show. He's got an actual real job.

Southgate has been by some distance the best England manager since colour television come in so I can't see he has "wasted" anything.

 

It was all about wokeness. MLT is fighting a system that hates people telling the truth.#MakesYouThink

[Barsiem]

15 minutes ago, whelk said:

It was all about wokeness. MLT is fighting a system that hates people telling the truth.#MakesYouThink

Tbf I do hate people reminding me how sh*t England are at penalties 

[Chewy]

13 minutes ago, whelk said:

It was all about wokeness. MLT is fighting a system that hates people telling the truth.#MakesYouThink

Southgate didn’t seek MLTs (not even remotely qualified) psychological help due to wokeness?  Are you still drunk??

Honestly, reading this thread reminds me of why I don’t come on here after saints defeats. Utter morons publicly proving their complete lack of footballing - or pretty much any - intelligence.

We lost to the world champions in a tight game, largely due to Kane missing a penalty and the officials missing another, plus a blatant foul in the build up to France’s first. We outplayed them for most of the second half, kept the worlds best current player quiet, all while playing with an utterly inept ref.

But none of that matters - Rice passed it sideways twice in 45 mins, we didn’t swap on 5 strikers and Southgate is a worse manager than any we had in the 70s, 80s and 90s (Graham Taylor anyone). We haven’t won any of the last 3 tournaments so Southgate is incompetent (there are some other fairly decent sides trying as well, you know).

Of course, yet to see any mention of who might realistically take over and do better (I mean, I guess it’s possible Guardiola wants the gig …).

I know we all indulge in naval gazing after every major tournament to an extent but some if you are absolute fucking idiots.

[CB Fry]

2 minutes ago, Chewy said:

Southgate didn’t seek MLTs (not even remotely qualified) psychological help due to wokeness?  Are you still drunk??

I think it is what us Earthlings call a "joke". 

[Ex Lion Tamer]

2 hours ago, rooney said:

FRance scored two goals in open play and we could not score any it is simple as that. Le Bleues, therefore, were worthy winners.

France prevented us from scoring in open play by fouling us at every opportunity. And the referee didn't reward us for that

[egg]

16 minutes ago, Chewy said:

Southgate didn’t seek MLTs (not even remotely qualified) psychological help due to wokeness?  Are you still drunk??

Honestly, reading this thread reminds me of why I don’t come on here after saints defeats. Utter morons publicly proving their complete lack of footballing - or pretty much any - intelligence.

We lost to the world champions in a tight game, largely due to Kane missing a penalty and the officials missing another, plus a blatant foul in the build up to France’s first. We outplayed them for most of the second half, kept the worlds best current player quiet, all while playing with an utterly inept ref.

But none of that matters - Rice passed it sideways twice in 45 mins, we didn’t swap on 5 strikers and Southgate is a worse manager than any we had in the 70s, 80s and 90s (Graham Taylor anyone). We haven’t won any of the last 3 tournaments so Southgate is incompetent (there are some other fairly decent sides trying as well, you know).

Of course, yet to see any mention of who might realistically take over and do better (I mean, I guess it’s possible Guardiola wants the gig …).

I know we all indulge in naval gazing after every major tournament to an extent but some if you are absolute fucking idiots.

Decent post apart from the unnecessary rant calling people morons, thick, fucking idiots and accusing them of being drunk. I'm not in a position to preach, but I think your style needs a tweak. 

[The Cat]

Interesting difference in how England's best player who made a mistake which probably cost us the match is being treated now as opposed to how Beckham was when he got sent off against Argentina.

Always found it weird how some people really hated Beckham, didn't someone create a dummy of him and hang it off a lampost or something after that match? 

Must be the new wokeness of the fans. Was much better in the old days when people wanted players dead and the media waged war on them. If people don't start burning effigies of Kane and boo him every time he plays for Spurs now they aren't proper fans.

[aintforever]

2 hours ago, rooney said:

FRance scored two goals in open play and we could not score any it is simple as that. Le Bleues, therefore, were worthy winners.

This. It was a close game but you can’t argue with the result.

[saint lard]

11 hours ago, Jonnyboy said:

You're sounding a bit like that guy on here who always slags off Nigel Adkins. 

And we are both correct. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[aintforever]

8 hours ago, Andrew Watson said:

Just to think Southgate alegedly declined to speak  or let the players speaK to MLT about the psycology of penalty taking.

In the last 3 tournaments we have lost to the first decent side we played in all 3. Croatia in 2018, Italy in 2021 and today. Southgate has wasted the best squads we have had for years.

Never mind, its all about opinions.

I’ve often wondered why players don’t just study MLT and copy his method, his record is so good it seems like the obvious thing to do.

But when you think about it, he was probably the most naturally gifted player the Premier League has ever seen. I expect many have tried to copy him and failed, he could just do things other players (even Harry Kane) couldn’t, it’s as simple as that. It’s just not teachable.

[adrian lord]

Age is a fascinating thing. The last tournament I was utterly gutted about us getting knocked out was France 98, succumbing to Batistuta and Co in that epic game. Since then the response has gradually attenuated to a resigned shrug of the shoulders. 
 

 

[AlexLaw76]

I think Southgate will (and should) move on - with his head held very high

However, continuing to not get past a top team is not a good show. Not so much last night, but previously he has been extremely average when it counts, taking into account the fortunate fixture list / location of games

We are also watching Kane turn into Wayne Rooney, the 2022 version. He has become incredibly immobile, and is now dropping into CM far too much 

Edited 11 December, 2022 by AlexLaw76

[Lighthouse]

5 minutes ago, aintforever said:

This. It was a close game but you can’t argue with the result.

No, you can’t. For all the complaints about the ref and VAR, we did get two penalties and couldn’t find the net any other way. France scored two decent goals which we failed to keep out, they deserved to win.

[Chewy]

11 minutes ago, egg said:

Decent post apart from the unnecessary rant calling people morons, thick, fucking idiots and accusing them of being drunk. I'm not in a position to preach, but I think your style needs a tweak. 

It needs a tweak but I can still comment? Thanks.

Unlike the poster you earlier told not to comment? Are  you the forum dictator? It’s a question, not an accusation, BTW. Like my question about still being drunk.

Plus I didn’t call anyone thick.

Moron.

Anyway, forgot to rant about my favourite criticism from all the above - a lack of JWP for that late free kick. Like the 2022 JWP should be anywhere near the England squad. 

F•cling idiots.

 

[whelk]

I demand an apology for being called drunk. No one thinks of fucking feelings these days

[whelk]

6 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

No, you can’t. For all the complaints about the ref and VAR, we did get two penalties and couldn’t find the net any other way. France scored two decent goals which we failed to keep out, they deserved to win.

They didn’t deserve to win but it was 50/50 and these things go either way on small margins. Football has always been the same. 

[egg]

5 minutes ago, Chewy said:

It needs a tweak but I can still comment? Thanks.

Unlike the poster you earlier told not to comment? Are  you the forum dictator? It’s a question, not an accusation, BTW. Like my question about still being drunk.

Plus I didn’t call anyone thick.

Moron.

Anyway, forgot to rant about my favourite criticism from all the above - a lack of JWP for that late free kick. Like the 2022 JWP should be anywhere near the England squad. 

F•cling idiots.

 

Blimey! We'd be at it all day if i started to reply to that bollox, so I'll pass. 

I'm with you on JWP though. 

[adrian lord]

Morocco- Croatia final anyone? 

[tdmickey3]

Back in the days of our miserable exits from major competitions we were competing with far better national sides then we are now and out classed but now we have a squad that is actually decent bar a couple of duds. We are now competing against countries that are far weaker than they were, Germany being a good example. 

This was one of the best opportunities we will likely ever get and ultimately failed again as we always seem to do when coming up against a better side

Its a shame but its the reality of the situation 

 

 

[egg]

1 minute ago, adrian lord said:

Morocco- Croatia final anyone? 

I'd like to see it. Croatia possibly twice in a row would be some achievement, and Morocco getting this far is unreal. 

[egg]

8 minutes ago, whelk said:

I demand an apology for being called drunk. No one thinks of fucking feelings these days

I'll drink to that.

[niceandfriendly]

51 minutes ago, Chewy said:

Honestly, reading this thread reminds me of why I don’t come on here after saints defeats.

Now just slightly adjust that habit to not coming on here after Saints draws, Saints wins and England games and we'll all be much better off. 

[Whitey Grandad]

14 minutes ago, adrian lord said:

Morocco- Croatia final anyone? 

I’d pay to miss that.

[david in sweden]

38 minutes ago, Barsiem said:

Tbf I do hate people reminding me how sh*t England are at penalties 

Maybe we'll have to live with that, especially as Southgate was the scapegoat himself in one tournament. 

For all the plaudits he's had in recent years -  JWP has never been in a Southgate squad for big games.

A player of his quality who runs the midfield and covers more ground than any other Prem. player every season, and is

an acknowledged dead-ball  specialist, he drew the short straw once again, in favour of some of the  "younger, promising talents "

who don't even get regular game time at club level, but go along " to make up the numbers"  yet never got to take their tracksuits off.

 

 I'm not just talking about penalties, for which JWP has a pretty impressive record, and would have been an great asset in the Euros

but just in the French game yesterday, we had 3 free-kick opportunities that were clearly in  " Prowsey-territory " and I can't believe

he might not have scored from at least one of them, and that last gasp Rashford effort was the best chance of all.

 

For those who say we just can't pick a player just for his dead-ball prowess should take note of the number of games where corners and

free-kicks (not to mention penalties) actually do make the difference in games at the highest level. 

England's record of dead-ball opportunities in this tournament has been atrocious, and although Luke Shaw took most of the corners

he clearly is nowhere near Prowsey's standard, let alone with free kicks.  

I do think Southgate should stay as manager, if only because there are few other viable alternatives), but as we are two years away

to the next Euros and four years to the next World Cup, perhaps both Southgate and Prowsey will be pretty pi**ed off with the

prospect of waiting around for those games.

[cloggy saint]

10 minutes ago, david in sweden said:

Maybe we'll have to live with that, especially as Southgate was the scapegoat himself in one tournament. 

For all the plaudits he's had in recent years -  JWP has never been in a Southgate squad for big games.

A player of his quality who runs the midfield and covers more ground than any other Prem. player every season, and is

an acknowledged dead-ball  specialist, he drew the short straw once again, in favour of some of the  "younger, promising talents "

who don't even get regular game time at club level, but go along " to make up the numbers"  yet never got to take their tracksuits off.

 

 I'm not just talking about penalties, for which JWP has a pretty impressive record, and would have been an great asset in the Euros

but just in the French game yesterday, we had 3 free-kick opportunities that were clearly in  " Prowsey-territory " and I can't believe

he might not have scored from at least one of them, and that last gasp Rashford effort was the best chance of all.

 

For those who say we just can't pick a player just for his dead-ball prowess should take note of the number of games where corners and

free-kicks (not to mention penalties) actually do make the difference in games at the highest level. 

England's record of dead-ball opportunities in this tournament has been atrocious, and although Luke Shaw took most of the corners

he clearly is nowhere near Prowsey's standard, let alone with free kicks.  

I do think Southgate should stay as manager, if only because there are few other viable alternatives), but as we are two years away

to the next Euros and four years to the next World Cup, perhaps both Southgate and Prowsey will be pretty pi**ed off with the

prospect of waiting around for those games.

You need to take off your Saints-tinted glasses mate. How many free kicks has JWP buried this season? How many times on a Saturday do we moan about how his corners are all the same and we need to change it up? 

'England's record of dead-ball opportunities in this tournament has been atrocious'  Really? atrocious?? I can think of 2 decent free kick chances, one scored and one missed, both from Rashford, hardly atrocious.

[Andrew Watson]

Chewy and CB Fry as  I said in my post it is all about opinions. Ours differ greatly, which is absolutely fine in debate. However yours and others vitriol is the reason  I came off this site for years, it is totally and completely unnecessary.  I hope your mum has your bags ready for school in the morning by the way, 

[aintforever]

39 minutes ago, whelk said:

They didn’t deserve to win but it was 50/50 and these things go either way on small margins. Football has always been the same. 

Small margins but blasting a pen over the bar isn’t luck, it’s lack of talent or bottle, and that was just to get level with France.

We had France on the rack in the second half and didn’t have the ability to make it count.

[whelk]

3 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Small margins but blasting a pen over the bar isn’t luck, it’s lack of talent or bottle, and that was just to get level with France.

We had France on the rack in the second half and didn’t have the ability to make it count.

Do you think Kane doesn’t have the talent to hit the target from 12 yards? 

[Whitey Grandad]

1 minute ago, whelk said:

Do you think Kane doesn’t have the talent to hit the target from 12 yards? 

He missed with his second opportunity. 
 

I was surprised to be honest but not disappointed because overall we were just not good enough. Unimaginative football played without flair or passion.

[Paulwantsapint81]

The player England missed was in the stand David Beckham on free kicks & corners gave belief

Luke Shaw has scored 6 goals in his entire career & doesn’t strike fear into keepers, the problem is who in the starting 11 are set play takers?

[aintforever]

7 minutes ago, whelk said:

Do you think Kane doesn’t have the talent to hit the target from 12 yards? 

The pressure obviously got to him. To be fair it was a bit of a freak situation being the second penalty and against his club team mate but fact is he fluffed it. There are players out there who would stayed cool and just waited for the keeper to move and rolled it in the other side.

Edited 11 December, 2022 by aintforever

[adrian lord]

Kane pen:

Can't get angry with him but it was disappointing, ballooned over the bar, it should have been on target as a minimum requirement. 

Edited 11 December, 2022 by adrian lord

[stknowle]

1 minute ago, aintforever said:

The pressure obviously got to him. To be fair it was a bit of a freak situation being the second penalty and against his club team mate but fact is he fluffed it. There are players out there who would stayed cool and just waited for the keeper to move and roll it in the other side.

If he'd scored it we would have still found a way to lose. In my lifetime we have beaten ONE top tier nation in the knock out stages of World Cups and Euros finals. Morocco have done it twice in the last week. It's a pathetic record, but as someone said above, I no longer let it bother me. Just shrug at the expected outcome and move on. 

[Convict Colony]

Am still on the Boufal express for this tournament, if they lose france burns, if they win france burns.

[Convict Colony]

This is the least i have been bothered by a penalty miss.

Not sure if its cos we are so conditioned from the greats of walker and waddle or the fact that this just doesnt feel like a world cup so cant get into it as much.

 

[Charlie Wayman]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

I demand an apology for being called drunk. No one thinks of fucking feelings these days

Least of all you.

[egg]

16 minutes ago, whelk said:

Do you think Kane doesn’t have the talent to hit the target from 12 yards? 

To he fair, he said lack of talent, or bottle. There's no lack of talent for sure, and the only explanation for me is that he couldn't handle the occasion and hoofed it Jonny Wilkinson style. No decent professional footballer has an excuse to not even hit the target from 12 yards. 

[cloggy saint]

1 minute ago, egg said:

No decent professional footballer has an excuse to not even hit the target from 12 yards. 

And yet literally thousands have done it.

[egg]

2 minutes ago, cloggy saint said:

And yet literally thousands have done it.

So? He's captain of a leading national team, and a top club side. Getting the ball on target is a minimum requirement - I couldn't give a monkeys if other players have missed previously. 

[Whitey Grandad]

8 minutes ago, egg said:

To he fair, he said lack of talent, or bottle. There's no lack of talent for sure, and the only explanation for me is that he couldn't handle the occasion and hoofed it Jonny Wilkinson style. No decent professional footballer has an excuse to not even hit the target from 12 yards. 

The contrast between his two penalty kicks was remarkable. The first was firm and confident and just what everybody expected but the second was a result of overthinking it. You don’t normally see penalty kicks get ballooned over the bar. That usually only happens in an extreme situation.