The World Cup Thread

[The Left Back]

Watched Cameroon beat Brazil with my 22 year old son (born one month before they last won at the WC).  Trying to explain to him how, when I was growing up, African teams used to be, well let's say, eccentric.  Don't think I landed the point very well.

Then up popped the Cameroon captain, Aboubakar, with an extraordinary moment.  Scores the winner, get's sent of for taking his shirt off, leaving his team to defend their lead for the last five minutes, knowing he'd miss the next round should they go through.  Smiles and shares a joke with the referee as he leaves the pitch.  My son now understands the point I was making.  

Can't quite get my head round it.  Imagine that was Harry Kane.  There'd be Daily Mail headlines and effigies hanging from lamp posts.

[cloggy saint]

So no team managed to win all 3 group games. Has that happened before?

[Turkish]

Not seen anything for England to fear. No outstanding team this time. Got through the group stages unbeaten with the best goal difference, 2 wins and 2 clean sheets, can’t ask for any more than that. 

[Tamesaint]

Has there ever been a worse TV commentator than Matterface? He spent all the match with Partridgesque cliches on the wonderfulness of Brazil. Eg No team has scored against them in the World Cup since 2018 ( they had only played 2  games in the World Cup since 2018).

Apparently the semi final between them and Argentina is going to be a fantastic game ( why bother with the last 16 and quarter finals) . He has an endless source of naff  unremarkable statistics which are instantly forgettable 

His crowning moment was when he announced that Cameroon no longer had any chance in the match - 5 seconds before they scored.

And he is a skate cunt.

 

 

[whelk]

34 minutes ago, Turkish said:

 2 wins and 2 clean sheets, can’t ask for any more than that. 

3 wins?

[John Boy Saint]

I watched the Swiss v Serbia game and the there was a camera shot of Gianni Infantino in the crowd - just finished watching something else and exited - the re run of Brazil v Cameroon was on, and there was a shot of Infantino at that game - either TV is editing in “Super Gianni” to make him look good or at half time he’s popped of to the other game to make himself look good: that’s why they chose Qatar all the grounds are 20 mins apart. 
He’s going to be buggered trying to pull that PR stunt at the next WC. 

[Chewy]

7 hours ago, Turkish said:

Not seen anything for England to fear. No outstanding team this time. Got through the group stages unbeaten with the best goal difference, 2 wins and 2 clean sheets, can’t ask for any more than that. 

Have to agree; France have the best player in mbappe but are not world class elsewhere. Very good but not world class. I think our attacking options are the best in the tournament. Kane’s not scored yet but already making an impact (top of the assist charts).  Portugal and Argentina are being carried by people past their (admittedly exceptional) best; Netherlands aren’t a patch on some of their past teams and Brazil are being hyped but honestly man for man I’d not swap any of our front five with theirs.

My two concerns are a) the defence (cb and gk) and b) the fact we’re England and always f*** up somehow. I do think this is our best chance since 2006, possibly better given the weakness of the opposition sides, but years of experience tell me to not get my hopes up.

[whelk]

58 minutes ago, Chewy said:

Have to agree; France have the best player in mbappe but are not world class elsewhere. Very good but not world class. I think our attacking options are the best in the tournament. Kane’s not scored yet but already making an impact (top of the assist charts).  Portugal and Argentina are being carried by people past their (admittedly exceptional) best; Netherlands aren’t a patch on some of their past teams and Brazil are being hyped but honestly man for man I’d not swap any of our front five with theirs.

My two concerns are a) the defence (cb and gk) and b) the fact we’re England and always f*** up somehow. I do think this is our best chance since 2006, possibly better given the weakness of the opposition sides, but years of experience tell me to not get my hopes up.

I should know better after all these years but genuinely believe we can win it.. Obviously Brazil or Argentina might improve further and beat us in final.

I don’t fear Spain (might be Portugal of course) in semis as much as Souness and as you say France ( in Qtr Final) are not as strong as previously. Mbappe obviously massive threat.

For any criticism of Southgate he has got this squad spirit and togetherness spot on and that counts for huge amount. just hope he doesn’t bottle it and realises our attacking talent is as good as any other team in this tournament.

 

 

Edited 3 December, 2022 by whelk

[CB Fry]

If the Aussies can beat France then I'll start believing but right now I just cannot bring myself to think we will do anything other than a noble defeat to France in the quarters.

At least we all agree we are beating Senegal.

[Chewy]

6 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

If the Aussies can beat France then I'll start believing but right now I just cannot bring myself to think we will do anything other than a noble defeat to France in the quarters.

At least we all agree we are beating Senegal.

France play Poland??

in a World Cup full of upsets the only second round game I can’t envisage a shock in any circumstance is Argentina v Australia. I think USA and Switzerland in particular have chances.

I actually think Senegal will be tough. Took extra time and 2 penalties v Cameroon in 1990; imagine it could be equally tense tomorrow 

[CB Fry]

10 minutes ago, Chewy said:

France play Poland??

in a World Cup full of upsets the only second round game I can’t envisage a shock in any circumstance is Argentina v Australia. I think USA and Switzerland in particular have chances.

I actually think Senegal will be tough. Took extra time and 2 penalties v Cameroon in 1990; imagine it could be equally tense tomorrow 

Sorry I've only just woken up.

Come on Bednarek, if anyone can come off the bench and inspire a team to victory then etc etc etc

[egg]

21 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

If the Aussies can beat France then I'll start believing but right now I just cannot bring myself to think we will do anything other than a noble defeat to France in the quarters.

At least we all agree we are beating Senegal.

I tend to agree. Senegal will be tough, but I think we'll just about get past them. If we can then beat France, I  believe that we could win it. 

[Kenilworthy]

13 minutes ago, egg said:

I tend to agree. Senegal will be tough, but I think we'll just about get past them. If we can then beat France, I  believe that we could win it. 

It is fortunate that Mane is injured otherwise Senegal would give us real problems. It is not going to be easy but I think we will just get through.

[Turkish]

6 minutes ago, egg said:

I tend to agree. Senegal will be tough, but I think we'll just about get past them. If we can then beat France, I  believe that we could win it. 

Agree the winners of that must be the favourites. I really don’t see any outstanding team this year, in the past there’s been Spain, Germany, Brazil who had an edge over the others. Even the Italy team of 2006 which weren’t outstanding but had a world class keeper and defence and with Pirlo and Totti players who could unlock any defence. Don’t see any team like that in this tournament. the fact that Richialison is brazils main threat sums up the level they’re at.
 

Squad depth we’re as good as anyone and seems to be a decent spirit in the camp which we never had with the so called golden generation. However every country is only a controversial VAR decision away from going out in a tight game.

does make me laugh though that on he one hand a lot of people are claiming our defence and keeper are suspect against the better teams whilst also critical of Southgate being too cautious against the better sides. 🤣

[FarehamSaintJames]

I don’t think in this knockout stage they’ll be any surprises. I think the likes of France, Netherlands, England, Spain etc will all win.

[egg]

2 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Agree the winners of that must be the favourites. I really don’t see any outstanding team this year, in the past there’s been Spain, Germany, Brazil who had an edge over the others. Even the Italy team of 2006 which weren’t outstanding but had a world class keeper and defence and with Pirlo and Totti players who could unlock any defence. Don’t see any team like that in this tournament. the fact that Richialison is brazils main threat sums up the level they’re at.
 

Squad depth we’re as good as anyone and seems to be a decent spirit in the camp which we never had with the so called golden generation. However every country is only a controversial VAR decision away from going out in a tight game.

does make me laugh though that on he one hand a lot of people are claiming our defence and keeper are suspect against the better teams whilst also critical of Southgate being too cautious against the better sides. 🤣

I'm with you on that. The Argies and Brazil aren't what they were for me. Alex Mccallister in the middle of the park for Argentina, Fred for Brazil. O don't look at their teams and worry. It's tactics, or moments of individual genius, where the difference could be made. Get past Senegal and France, and I'm buying an it's coming home scarf. 

[egg]

6 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

I don’t think in this knockout stage they’ll be any surprises. I think the likes of France, Netherlands, England, Spain etc will all win.

Although Spain will likely edge out Morocco, a shock there wouldn't be a big shock for me. I think Japan will sneak past Croatia too - they look ridiculously organised. 

[The Cat]

The overall standard of the top nations is definitely poorer, although this has meant the less traditionally strong teams have managed to pull off some good results.

If France didn't have so many injuries I think they would have won the tournament at a canter because they would have been the most complete team. 

[The Left Back]

42 minutes ago, Turkish said:

does make me laugh though that on he one hand a lot of people are claiming our defence and keeper are suspect against the better teams whilst also critical of Southgate being too cautious against the better sides. 🤣

You may have answered your own point there. It was something I raised before (probably unclearly), citing Chris Nicholl.

It is the very reason that our defence is weak that we shouldn’t be cautious. I think our best chance is high risk, high press, attacked based football. We don’t have the personnel to grind out 1-0s against better quality opposition.

Nicholl freely admitted he’d rather we controlled a game and won 1-0 than a wild 4-3, but our attackers were better than our defenders so he went against his instincts. My view is it’s a similar scenario now.

i agree with your broader points about the tournament. Someone has to go and win the thing and no-one looks more likely than us.

 

[Roo1976]

On 02/12/2022 at 01:29, CB Fry said:

I think the fact that the next World Cup is 48 nations is how FIFA is trying to shoehorn more teams in.

oh OK, but  its not broken, so again for the sake of money it dont need fixing . So why dont we have a world cup where everyone can play?................yeah i know ridiculous isn't it .

[Wurzel]

15 hours ago, East Kent Saint said:

Not so much a stitch up but if 99.9 % of the ball was out then it’s out in this context allowing for accuracy of white lines imo . I would have thought it would be given out in most matches. This is the madness of var really , not settling argument just moving the point of contention . 

Not really thought that through have you. By the logic of your argument if the ball is definitely out but only by a margin of .1% of the ball's width it should then be considered it in to allow for the accuracy of the white lines.  In and out is black and white, it's not open to opinion. I didn't see it live, but every VAR photo I've seen since conclusively shows it was in. Argument settled, no point of contention moved .

[Charlie Wayman]

2 hours ago, egg said:

I'm with you on that. The Argies and Brazil aren't what they were for me. Alex Mccallister in the middle of the park for Argentina, Fred for Brazil. O don't look at their teams and worry. It's tactics, or moments of individual genius, where the difference could be made. Get past Senegal and France, and I'm buying an it's coming home scarf. 

Getting past France as you put it will be nigh on impossible for a Southgate side.

[egg]

Just now, Charlie Wayman said:

Getting past France as you put it will be nigh on impossible for a Southgate side.

Oh ye of little faith Charlie. If Southgate sets us up primarily to not concede, I think we will concede. If he plays to our strengths, we've got a hell of chance. Beat the French, and it'll get very interesting. 

[AlexLaw76]

8 minutes ago, egg said:

Oh ye of little faith Charlie. If Southgate sets us up primarily to not concede, I think we will concede. If he plays to our strengths, we've got a hell of chance. Beat the French, and it'll get very interesting. 

I agree. If we beat the French, then it is on!

 

[egg]

1 hour ago, Roo1976 said:

oh OK, but  its not broken, so again for the sake of money it dont need fixing . So why dont we have a world cup where everyone can play?................yeah i know ridiculous isn't it .

Personally I'd like to see it go bigger. 48 teams. 8 groups of 6. Group games thick and fast for squad rotation. Top 4 from each group going through, giving loads of teams something to play for. Then a round of 32 with some of the  minnows inevitably involved. Then the usual format. It's a world cup, like the Olympics, the more the merrier imo. 

[East Kent Saint]

1 hour ago, Wurzel said:

Not really thought that through have you. By the logic of your argument if the ball is definitely out but only by a margin of .1% of the ball's width it should then be considered it in to allow for the accuracy of the white lines.  In and out is black and white, it's not open to opinion. I didn't see it live, but every VAR photo I've seen since conclusively shows it was in. Argument settled, no point of contention moved .

I have , If you accept that the computer generated image is 100% accurate then it’s a correct decision but the process at the time was poor . If , like in tennis , they showed the graphic with the ball ‘overlapping’ the line then it would be more readily accepted . In tennis it has become accepted and uncontested. Live it looked out but with a timely graphic lt would improve the var process greatly . 🙂

[Turkish]

2 hours ago, The Left Back said:

You may have answered your own point there. It was something I raised before (probably unclearly), citing Chris Nicholl.

It is the very reason that our defence is weak that we shouldn’t be cautious. I think our best chance is high risk, high press, attacked based football. We don’t have the personnel to grind out 1-0s against better quality opposition.

Nicholl freely admitted he’d rather we controlled a game and won 1-0 than a wild 4-3, but our attackers were better than our defenders so he went against his instincts. My view is it’s a similar scenario now.

i agree with your broader points about the tournament. Someone has to go and win the thing and no-one looks more likely than us.

 

If we played high risk football against France Mbappe would absolutely destroy us. For all the moaning about Southgates caution we’re top scorers. You don’t win tournaments by being gung ho, it might be better to watch but rarely gets silverware 

[egg]

3 minutes ago, Turkish said:

If we played high risk football against France Mbappe would absolutely destroy us. For all the moaning about Southgates caution we’re top scorers. You don’t win tournaments by being gung ho, it might be better to watch but rarely gets silverware 

I get that Del, but I think we'll get picked off if we sit back. 

[whelk]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

I agree. If we beat the French, then it is on!

 

Hardly an outrageous prediction as we will be in the semi finals.

 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

1 minute ago, whelk said:

Hardly an outrageous prediction as we will be in the semi finals.

 

If we're going to pick up the trophy after winning the final, then it's on! 🙂

[RedArmy]

Win the next 3 and then it’s on! 

[Turkish]

47 minutes ago, egg said:

I get that Del, but I think we'll get picked off if we sit back. 

I’m not saying sit back but high energy, high risk, high press football would be suicidal in a tournament. 7 games in just over 3 weeks playing that way would be too much for the players and we’d be torn apart by the better players. Keep it solid, be difficult to play through and we’ve got enough attacking talent to create chances against any team in this tournament.

[Turkish]

5 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

Win the next 3 and then it’s on! 

I think if we can go unbeaten in our next 4 matches we’ve got a chance 

[Turkish]

Gabriel Jesus out of the World Cup. Loss for Brazil 

[adrian lord]

14 hours ago, Turkish said:

Not seen anything for England to fear. No outstanding team this time. Got through the group stages unbeaten with the best goal difference, 2 wins and 2 clean sheets, can’t ask for any more than that. 

We definitely could win it. Whether we do is another matter, but definitely possible. 

[Turkish]

32 minutes ago, adrian lord said:

We definitely could win it. Whether we do is another matter, but definitely possible. 

Well quite. You need a lot to go right to win a tournament. Injuries, fitness, form, manage fatigue, decisions going your way etc. I don’t think we’ll get a much better chance. For everyone critical of Southgate he’s got us to the last 4 of both major finals we’ve been, so that suggests he’s managed all that well so far

Edited 3 December, 2022 by Turkish

[RedArmy]

49 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Well quite. You need a lot to go right to win a tournament. Injuries, fitness, form, manage fatigue, decisions going your way etc. I don’t think we’ll get a much better chance. For everyone critical of Southgate he’s got us to the last 4 of both major finals we’ve been, so that suggests he’s managed all that well so far

He’s only lost one tournament game in 90 minutes and that was against Belgium when we intentionally tried to lose. 

[FarehamSaintJames]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

Gabriel Jesus out of the World Cup. Loss for Brazil 

They’ve got Richarlison, who already has the ego of Ronaldo and the ability of Guly do Prado. 

[Whitey Grandad]

3 hours ago, East Kent Saint said:

I have , If you accept that the computer generated image is 100% accurate then it’s a correct decision but the process at the time was poor . If , like in tennis , they showed the graphic with the ball ‘overlapping’ the line then it would be more readily accepted . In tennis it has become accepted and uncontested. Live it looked out but with a timely graphic lt would improve the var process greatly . 🙂

These computer generated images that youhave become used to are a fraud. Anyone who has worked in image processing will tell you that there is a margin of inaccuracy and that any image that is shown should be blurry and the more closely that they zoom in the blurrier it should get. All this nonsense that you see on CSI and other programmes about 'enhance' is pure fantasy. You can't create image data where none exists.

In this case the images were not computer generated.

Edited 3 December, 2022 by Whitey Grandad

[East Kent Saint]

22 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

These computer generated images that youhave become used to are a fraud. Anyone who has worked in image processing will tell you that there is a margin of inaccuracy and that any image that is shown should be blurry and the more closely that they zoom in the blurrier it should get. All this nonsense that you see on CSI and other programmes about 'enhance' is pure fantasy. You can't create image data where none exists.

In this case the images were not computer generated.

I meant the computer generated images as shown with Hawkeye in tennis and the WC has been showing computer images of offside decisions . The proposition that it must be true because the computer says so is increasing shown to be wrong , take cash machines as one of the examples and more recently algorithms used for all sorts eg face recognition software etc.

Hawkeye uses 6 cameras to track the ball and produce a 3D image , it also gives an elongated image of the ball hitting the court to allow for spin etc .Not sure what var uses as only seen the goalmouth tech explained not the goalline !

Edited 3 December, 2022 by East Kent Saint

[AlexLaw76]

57 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

They’ve got Richarlison, who already has the ego of Ronaldo and the ability of Guly do Prado. 

19 goals in 40 games for Brazil. Yet ability of Guly!

[AlexLaw76]

Nice goal from Holland

[egg]

Fair to say that the Dutch are making this look easy. Lot of quality in that team. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

39 minutes ago, egg said:

Fair to say that the Dutch are making this look easy. Lot of quality in that team. 

Hopefully the manager will stifle them. 

[whelk]

Game on

[Lord Duckhunter]

The bloke who tried to flick it after Ake’s header needs fucking shooting. Hold the ball up, and they don’t score. 

[FarehamSaintJames]

That Anthony Robinson (even before his poor defending for the third goal) I’ve thought has looked horrendous.

Never known a full back to be so slow, weak, and poor defending and attacking.

When we play Fulham just play our quickest player against him and we should have the game sewn up.

[cloggy saint]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Fair to say that the Dutch are making this look easy. Lot of quality in that team. 

I think they've looked bang average all tournament.

[egg]

6 minutes ago, cloggy saint said:

I think they've looked bang average all tournament.

I think they just make it look easy. Dismantled a team that we couldn't.  

[Badger]

1 hour ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

That Anthony Robinson (even before his poor defending for the third goal) I’ve thought has looked horrendous.

Never known a full back to be so slow, weak, and poor defending and attacking.

When we play Fulham just play our quickest player against him and we should have the game sewn up.

How long have you been watching Saints ?