From one mess to another

[Kaiser Soze]

Whoever believes Nathan fucking Jones is the right man for us needs their head testing. Ridiculous decision. This man failed miserably at Stoke City, has never worked at the top level and has no experience of working with an academy and bringing though youngsters.

 

just ask Stoke what they think of him, Mark Hughes had more fans

 

this Club is fucked. Hang your head in shame sfc

Edited 7 November, 2022 by Kaiser Soze

[The Cat]

I never realised that was his middle name. Quite surprised really as it seems slightly out of kilter with his religious upbringing.

[Sunglasses Ron]

It’s not entirely clear in your post, but are you not happy with this potential appointment?

[Saint_clark]

Can I be the first to say Nathan Jones out, please. 

[woodsaint1]

Do you have to create a new thread every time you get angry, which seems to be every couple of hours?

[Miltonaggro]

Reflecting over the evening cocoa and if they go ahead with Jones it does seem a very odd appointment - not sure whether naive or reckless. If this is the Ankersen choice you could understand it at Brentford when they were knocking around the lower reaches of the championship but to gamble premier league status like this would be bizarre. To me it really does feel like the Sturrock appointment, penny pinching and trying to be too clever, followed by a terminal blow up. Ultimately sturrock led to us panic in trying Wigley then throw the dice on Saggy in a desparate attempt to stay up. Different timescales here but if Jones doesn’t gel very quickly and have the support of senior players he will be toast, as will SFC. 
 

Never easy with Saints is it! 

[Le Timmier]

41 minutes ago, Kaiser Soze said:

Whoever believes Nathan fucking Jones is the right man for us needs their head testing. Ridiculous decision. This man failed miserably at Stoke City, has never worked at the top level and has no experience of working with an academy and bringing though youngsters.

 

just ask Stoke what they think of him, Mark Hughes had more fans

 

this Club is fucked. Hang your head in shame sfc

Hope someone changes your nappy for you soon

[Killers Knee]

"Mad Nate" said it best himself (at least he has a fitting Nickname):

 

[FarehamSaintJames]

1 hour ago, Kaiser Soze said:

Whoever believes Nathan fucking Jones is the right man for us needs their head testing. Ridiculous decision. This man failed miserably at Stoke City, has never worked at the top level and has no experience of working with an academy and bringing though youngsters.

 

just ask Stoke what they think of him, Mark Hughes had more fans

 

this Club is fucked. Hang your head in shame sfc

Prat. 🤣

[SotonianWill]

1 hour ago, Kaiser Soze said:

Whoever believes Nathan fucking Jones is the right man for us needs their head testing. Ridiculous decision. This man failed miserably at Stoke City, has never worked at the top level and has no experience of working with an academy and bringing though youngsters.

 

just ask Stoke what they think of him, Mark Hughes had more fans

 

this Club is fucked. Hang your head in shame sfc

This is hilarious.

 

And totally untrue. Jones has a good track record with making players even better and perform to a better ability. He worked in an academy system with Charlton so has worked with young players. I also think he was involved in an England youth set up once. To base everything off a 9 month period with a toxic Stoke club as a whole whilst being blind to the perfect record in every other job is ridiculous. 

 

 

[Kaiser Soze]

You’re fucking blind if you think this is a good appointment.

 

Jones out

[S-Clarke]

16 minutes ago, Kaiser Soze said:

You’re fucking blind if you think this is a good appointment.

 

Jones out

Who had ''before he's even joined'' on the ''When will fans want him out?'' sweepstake.

Good effort if so.

[Verbal]

2 hours ago, The Cat said:

I never realised that was his middle name. Quite surprised really as it seems slightly out of kilter with his religious upbringing.

It's a cross he's had to bear.

[trousers]

2 hours ago, Kaiser Soze said:

Whoever believes Nathan fucking Jones is the right man for us needs their head testing. Ridiculous decision. This man failed miserably at Stoke City, has never worked at the top level and has no experience of working with an academy and bringing though youngsters.

 

just ask Stoke what they think of him, Mark Hughes had more fans

 

this Club is fucked. Hang your head in shame sfc

[stevy777_x]

I agree it is a very underwhelming appointment.

it seems like we have appointed the Nigel Adkins equivalent of League 2 to Championship whereas Nigel was League 1 to Premier League.

I m disapointed with the Sports Republic hierarchy, I though they would be more progressive than this.

Add this to the fact that Jones style of play is not possession based, and more counter attacking. Do we actually have the players with the pace to do this?

[GarrettIvo]

Whenever I need a pick me up in life I can rely on this website to provide it.

[Singapore Saint]

6 hours ago, SotonianWill said:

This is hilarious.

And totally untrue. Jones has a good track record with making players even better and perform to a better ability. He worked in an academy system with Charlton so has worked with young players. I also think he was involved in an England youth set up once. To base everything off a 9 month period with a toxic Stoke club as a whole whilst being blind to the perfect record in every other job is ridiculous.

I remember when Wee Ginger (Gordon Strachan) was appointed. His detractors said oh wasn't he dismissed at Coventry? Turned out to be one of our best managers in recent history.

[Gingeletiss]

9 hours ago, Kaiser Soze said:

Whoever believes Nathan fucking Jones is the right man for us needs their head testing. Ridiculous decision. This man failed miserably at Stoke City, has never worked at the top level and has no experience of working with an academy and bringing though youngsters.

 

just ask Stoke what they think of him, Mark Hughes had more fans

 

this Club is fucked. Hang your head in shame sfc

Neither had Laurie McMenemy, but he was fantastic for us, Chris Nichol!

[AlexLaw76]

And we sold him...

 

 

[CB Fry]

26 minutes ago, Singapore Saint said:

I remember when Wee Ginger (Gordon Strachan) was appointed. His detractors said oh wasn't he dismissed at Coventry? Turned out to be one of our best managers in recent history.

The same Gordon Strachan who had five years previously managing in the top flight and finishing above us most years? That one? Jones has got that Premier League experience has he?

Its disappointing that we are employing a manager with such a weak pedigree that the only "positive" response people on this forum have is the classic "if everyone is writing him off then that means he'll definitely be brilliant and prove you wrong" argument.

No one needed that bloody argument when Hasenhuttl was appointed because he'd recently finished 2nd in the Bundesliga. 

[skintsaint]

15 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

And we sold him...

 

 

Well we had to as he wanted to leave. Still waiting for JWP to perform this season as well.

Who is leaking all this by the way?

[Alan Sugarfree]

7 hours ago, trousers said:

Do you have any other gifs in your repertoire?

[Dorchester Saint]

8 hours ago, SotonianWill said:

This is hilarious.

 

And totally untrue. Jones has a good track record with making players even better and perform to a better ability. He worked in an academy system with Charlton so has worked with young players. I also think he was involved in an England youth set up once. To base everything off a 9 month period with a toxic Stoke club as a whole whilst being blind to the perfect record in every other job is ridiculous. 

 

 

Claiming he’s had a ‘perfect record’ in every other job is equally ridiculous….unbeaten he is not. 

[Morse]

If it happens, this will be one of the biggest throws of a dice the club has made. Totally unfathomable.  There are dozens of managers with better records than Jones in the lower leagues, just look at the comparable stats, so why this fella other than he'll be really, really cheap? 

[Morse]

1 hour ago, Gingeletiss said:

Neither had Laurie McMenemy, but he was fantastic for us, Chris Nichol!

The game has moved on ever so slightly in the 49 years since Laurie McMenemy was appointed.  

[Toussaint]

is he still here? 

[Miltonaggro]

4 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

is he still here? 

Currently at Victoria station changing coaches on the National Express down from Luton.  ETA for talks with Ankers 1700.  Has packed two scotch eggs and a packet of elastoplast for energy and control.  

[manji]

On 07/11/2022 at 21:03, Miltonaggro said:

Reflecting over the evening cocoa and if they go ahead with Jones it does seem a very odd appointment - not sure whether naive or reckless. If this is the Ankersen choice you could understand it at Brentford when they were knocking around the lower reaches of the championship but to gamble premier league status like this would be bizarre. To me it really does feel like the Sturrock appointment, penny pinching and trying to be too clever, followed by a terminal blow up. Ultimately sturrock led to us panic in trying Wigley then throw the dice on Saggy in a desparate attempt to stay up. Different timescales here but if Jones doesn’t gel very quickly and have the support of senior players he will be toast, as will SFC. 
 

Never easy with Saints is it! 

Sturrock was as an alcoholic Jones is teetotal so a poor comparison. Incidentally Sturrock ended up in rehab and coaches a minnow club in Cornwall. Seems very happy.

[Miltonaggro]

2 minutes ago, manji said:

Sturrock was as an alcoholic Jones is teetotal so a poor comparison. Incidentally Sturrock ended up in rehab and coaches a minnow club in Cornwall. Seems very happy.

I think it's a relevant comparison to current circumstances, perhaps more relevant than comparisons to Lawrie McMenemy or David Moyes for instance.  Then again it's all about opinions and perceptions.  I wasn't aware that he was an alcoholic and thought that he had a good deal of success in the lower leagues after Saints (Sheff Weds, Swindon, Plymouth, Southend), until his Parkinson's disease got too bad.   

[manji]

Has Southampton said anything about Jones joining us ? All the hype is coming from Luton.

[Miltonaggro]

10 minutes ago, manji said:

Has Southampton said anything about Jones joining us ? All the hype is coming from Luton.

No idea, but there has to be something in it.  If rumours are true that he's in the stand tonight it's a done deal. 

[manji]

Eddie Howe started watching Saints when there was talk of Ralph getting the sack a few months ago and he made sure the press knew.

[manji]

If true Luton have been fucking unprofessional. It’s not how we operate.

The story is dying down in the press even the hysterical Daily Echo are playing it down.

Edited 9 November, 2022 by manji

[Ted Bates Statue]

25 minutes ago, manji said:

The story is dying down in the press even the hysterical Daily Echo are playing it down.

So it's not a done deal after all. Guessing there are still others in the frame, which might include Gallardo.

Although Rasmus seems to know and prefer Jones, I take it the club structure still prevents a Carrillo-style repeat of one person overruling everyone else. Apart from Semmens who else on the board gets a say?

Edit: In fairness just because Luton have leaked it, there is still the aspect of us supposedly having kept tabs on him for months (as suggested by both you and Pilchards). So it's not exactly like Luton are touting him, maybe just being realistic that he's off?

Edited 9 November, 2022 by Ted Bates Statue

[manji]

8 minutes ago, Ted Bates Statue said:

So it's not a done deal after all. Guessing there are still others in the frame, which might include Gallardo.

Although Rasmus seems to know and prefer Jones, I take it the club structure still prevents a Carrillo-style repeat of one person overruling everyone else. Apart from Semmens who else on the board gets a say?

Rasmus compiled a shortlist a couple of months ago Jones was on it. Within an hour of Ralph being sacked you couldn’t move for Jones stories. 
It feels like a concerted plan to get him in the Public eye. Like I’ve already mentioned even if true Luton have been really unprofessional.

[LiberalCommunist]

Nate is in the stands.

I feel safer already. 

 

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, manji said:

If true Luton have been fucking unprofessional. It’s not how we operate.

The story is dying down in the press even the hysterical Daily Echo are playing it down.

If dying down is all over media saying it’s a done deal then you’re right 

[manji]

Wishful thinking on my part. He’s there and has been entertained by Saints all day.

[Dr Who?]

Get your mortgage on it. 1/50 on sky bet. 

[Miltonaggro]

11 hours ago, manji said:

Wishful thinking on my part. He’s there and has been entertained by Saints all day.

I reckon the rider for Nath and the entourage would have been unlimited Monster energy drink, Haribo Starmix and Wotsits, plus a family box of eslastoplast waterproof plasters. No own brands. 

[John B]

I feel that the mess that the club now finds itself is because the strategy of buying young players so they will thrive in the PL is far from sound and the post elsewhere regarding Small returning from Port Vale exemplifies this

 

Also our Academy is currently unable to produce PL players.

 

The situation feels similar to 2004 when we were on the way to relegation.

 

In recent years the standard of other teams in the PL has increased significantly for instance Brighton and Crystal Palace overall seem to have better players and better results 

 

So without significant investment we  in good quality players we are going to stuggle and eventually get relegated

 

I am not sure SR are good owners for us as their priority does not seem to be Southampton and all the PR/Bullshit about the advantages of  being in a group of other clubs has not  materialise d

 

To continue to prosper in the PL we need  an owner like Markus Liebbier his death was so sad on so many levels

 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

1 hour ago, John B said:

I feel that the mess that the club now finds itself is because the strategy of buying young players so they will thrive in the PL is far from sound and the post elsewhere regarding Small returning from Port Vale exemplifies this

 

Also our Academy is currently unable to produce PL players.

 

The situation feels similar to 2004 when we were on the way to relegation.

 

In recent years the standard of other teams in the PL has increased significantly for instance Brighton and Crystal Palace overall seem to have better players and better results 

 

So without significant investment we  in good quality players we are going to stuggle and eventually get relegated

 

I am not sure SR are good owners for us as their priority does not seem to be Southampton and all the PR/Bullshit about the advantages of  being in a group of other clubs has not  materialise d

 

To continue to prosper in the PL we need  an owner like Markus Liebbier his death was so sad on so many levels

 

Lots of points to think about there in your post.

As young as they are, ABK has been a significant upgrade. Lavia has also made a real difference.

The club were wrong in getting shot of Romeu, just when we finally had a chance of having quality and depth in that position.

I rated Forster, but Bazunu hasn't been terrible. Not as good, but not a disaster.

So some definite improvements.

The likes of Edozie, Larios, Mara and I'd add Small there have improvements to make. But there's talent in all of them. I see them as being bought in to replace that absence of academy graduates pushing the first team. We've Doyle, Dibling, Edwards and Ballard coming up behind. Hopefully that's going to close that issue of not producing first team players.

Elsewhere DCC, Aribo and AMN are decent squad additions. Their age means we're not only focussing on kids.

It's the missing attacking midfielder and striker that turned a very good transfer window sour. From posts here, that was more Semmens than SR.

Brighton, Brentford etc improved over seasons by employing a number of transfer strategies, keeping costs low. We've had a few years of stagnation before this one. We've clearly been addressing a number of areas, but had a howler at the one we all,including the manager and club, knew we needed to fix most.

I agree that the standard of teams has gone up. While we were paying for Man City kids, decent experienced players were being bought elsewhere. A number of players I liked moved for decent money. But nothing wrong with picking ABK or Lavia over them.

We are going to need quality attacking signings. They are going to have to hit the ground running. Hopefully the new manager will be working during the break to get ones fitting his tactics in as early as possible. I imagine there will be a lot more oversight on Semmens this time round, if the posts were accurate.

Without mega bucks, we're going to be in that bottom pack, trying to outsmart our competitors to get some success. Further up the chain, even Liverpool are looking for new owners to sustain their aspirations.  Brighton, Brentford are already well down their paths so it is a challenge.

The new manager is more of a Potter signing than a Emery one. Could we have got a higher profile manager in, who could show the players what to aspire towards, with the risk they can't get there? Or is it better to have someone develop a long term ethos of the club (and across others), building from where they are, but at the risk of setting the sights too low, or on short term sell ons? We've sent with the second option, in keeping with Ankersen's views.  We know Jones has been on the radar for some time, so can only hope it works.

[th42uk]

I still believe they could’ve got someone a lot better. Saints are (probably not for much longer) a Premier Club that has a great track records. It smells like a Mark Hughes, Claude Puel appointment……..Desperation

[kelkel31]

9 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

Lots of points to think about there in your post.

As young as they are, ABK has been a significant upgrade. Lavia has also made a real difference.

The club were wrong in getting shot of Romeu, just when we finally had a chance of having quality and depth in that position.

I rated Forster, but Bazunu hasn't been terrible. Not as good, but not a disaster.

So some definite improvements.

The likes of Edozie, Larios, Mara and I'd add Small there have improvements to make. But there's talent in all of them. I see them as being bought in to replace that absence of academy graduates pushing the first team. We've Doyle, Dibling, Edwards and Ballard coming up behind. Hopefully that's going to close that issue of not producing first team players.

Elsewhere DCC, Aribo and AMN are decent squad additions. Their age means we're not only focussing on kids.

It's the missing attacking midfielder and striker that turned a very good transfer window sour. From posts here, that was more Semmens than SR.

Brighton, Brentford etc improved over seasons by employing a number of transfer strategies, keeping costs low. We've had a few years of stagnation before this one. We've clearly been addressing a number of areas, but had a howler at the one we all,including the manager and club, knew we needed to fix most.

I agree that the standard of teams has gone up. While we were paying for Man City kids, decent experienced players were being bought elsewhere. A number of players I liked moved for decent money. But nothing wrong with picking ABK or Lavia over them.

We are going to need quality attacking signings. They are going to have to hit the ground running. Hopefully the new manager will be working during the break to get ones fitting his tactics in as early as possible. I imagine there will be a lot more oversight on Semmens this time round, if the posts were accurate.

Without mega bucks, we're going to be in that bottom pack, trying to outsmart our competitors to get some success. Further up the chain, even Liverpool are looking for new owners to sustain their aspirations.  Brighton, Brentford are already well down their paths so it is a challenge.

The new manager is more of a Potter signing than a Emery one. Could we have got a higher profile manager in, who could show the players what to aspire towards, with the risk they can't get there? Or is it better to have someone develop a long term ethos of the club (and across others), building from where they are, but at the risk of setting the sights too low, or on short term sell ons? We've sent with the second option, in keeping with Ankersen's views.  We know Jones has been on the radar for some time, so can only hope it works.

Just to work with the last paragraph, my thoughts are that this appointment shows that the biggest mistake was made in July. I think we can take from comments made before on this site and in the media we have had a target in mind for a while. The time taken to announce Jones suggests its been him all a long.

My thought are that if Jones was brought in in July, 'We thank Ralph for all his hard work blah blah blah, time for a new direction blah blah blah' it would have been more of a palatable and understandable appointment.  The youthful signings and a new manager, fresh start etc. To do it now, when we are clearly in trouble shows a distinct level of ignorance.  This combined with the inexplicable 'Grateful to be in the PL' garbage spouted by Semmens in the fans forum suggest serious issues lie in the management structure of the club.

What we don't know is if these event are from the direction of SR or if Semmens and co are fully in control and just pulling SR's chain.  If it is the later, SR can yank them out and make fundamental changes that give us hope going forward. If it is the former i seriously fear for the medium term prospects of our club.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

55 minutes ago, kelkel31 said:

Just to work with the last paragraph, my thoughts are that this appointment shows that the biggest mistake was made in July. I think we can take from comments made before on this site and in the media we have had a target in mind for a while. The time taken to announce Jones suggests its been him all a long.

My thought are that if Jones was brought in in July, 'We thank Ralph for all his hard work blah blah blah, time for a new direction blah blah blah' it would have been more of a palatable and understandable appointment.  The youthful signings and a new manager, fresh start etc. To do it now, when we are clearly in trouble shows a distinct level of ignorance.  This combined with the inexplicable 'Grateful to be in the PL' garbage spouted by Semmens in the fans forum suggest serious issues lie in the management structure of the club.

What we don't know is if these event are from the direction of SR or if Semmens and co are fully in control and just pulling SR's chain.  If it is the later, SR can yank them out and make fundamental changes that give us hope going forward. If it is the former i seriously fear for the medium term prospects of our club.

Oh heck, Don't work with the last paragraph! I was seriously out of puff by that point. 🙂

You could see, at least as early as the Norwich game in Feb, that Ralph's tactic had been found out. The following shocker against Villa left no doubt. It was disappointing that, for all the automatisms and playbooks, there was no effective transition planned. No way of changing in a match, and no slightly successful back up plan.

Anything after the West Ham game on was dire. I could understand that brand new owners might not want to sack the manager with no succession plan in place. Perhaps they didn't know how bad it was, and based on the good spells mixed with bad under him before, thought it would turn round. The data trends must have looked decent for a while. But they could have made a change that early. I'd have been disappointed, but I would have understood.

By Chelsea, if the club had decided to part with Ralph, it would have been understandable, with a lot less disappointment.

Perhaps the same reason for sticking with him, is the reason we went for Jones. They'd analysed the data on what Ralph could do with little resources. We played some cracking stuff. Imagine what we'd do with investment in both the squad and in youth.

In the summer it looked as though they cracked the numbers and developed a strategy to keep us tight at the back.

They could easily have moved to a new manager. They chose to make improvements to what they had, which I can understand. Had they brought Jones in then, I'd have been pointing out that Ralph could finally be given a go with some proper backing though. If the new signings could be used to overcome the tactical mess of the last dozen plus matches.

They let Ralph down badly over a striker. We did look tougher to break down, and the data (and anyone with a brain) have shown up front as a massive weakness. Just like Potter at Brighton, they would have thought it could be fixed, while keeping the manager. They hoped to limp into the next window, so they could give him the chance to do it properly.

But it's become untenable now, possibly for all parties. The untested at this level manager is absolutely riskier now than it was in the summer. But it does seem Jones was next in line at whatever point. By doing it now, he gets to coach them ahead of a tough opponent and then gets a break with most of them. Better now than...   any point after now, I guess.

They could have pulled the plug at any point in the last month or so. And that's giving Ralph the benefit of losing Lavia, with the club selling Romeu and KWP injury.

It's turned out that doing it in the summer might have been best. But we don't know what would have happened if we'd got those/that last attacking signing. A signing we smugly left to the last, which was nothing to do with Ralph. So I get why we stuck with him.

As for Semmens saying we're poor little waifs, lucky to be allowed scraps from the big table:

Incredibly thin skinned about fans reaction to watching dire football.

Deflecting that it was his screw up that helped a good way towards those results.

The latest data now has enough rubbish results, that they can now see what we've been watching, and it's predicting the drop, hence the manager change.

SR thought they were buying successful RalphBall v1, and now realise it's more than they can handle/ invest in.

In the end, if 20 state funds buy into this league, then there's no real hope for us to stay in it, short of mismanagement on their part and getting a season up from the Championship.

But that's not where things are, so agree it's counterproductive for everyone, to be making such ambition lowering statements.

Whew. Out of typing puff again. 🙂

[niceandfriendly]

On 08/11/2022 at 14:04, AlexLaw76 said:

And we sold him...

When a good, honest man and quality servant to the club sits in front of Martin Semmens and literally cries when explaining how he and his family want to go home, were we really supposed to ignore that and force him to stay? We never wanted to let Oriol go, the club exercised compassion in this case. Oriol is a good man and the club respects him.