James Ward-Prowse

[saintant]

3 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

He was still mincing about when Lavia did play. Lavia came off Weds and again today, Jonesy didn’t change Prowse role. I know you’re the President of the Cult, but Ralph was clearly holding him back this season. 

Agree. Whatever the issues with Lavia getting injured and Romeu having been sold you don't solve them by playing JWP in a deep lying role he is just not suited to.

[Saint86]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I’ll tell you what… I bet Prowse wishes Jonesy had arrived in the club in the summer instead of Ralph letting him mince around in Aug/Sept/Oct. This new aggressive forward thinking Prowse would have been in Qatar . The Ralph cult should think on that…

Our form has picked up since Lavia has been fit and can play in CDM, which allows JWP to play further forward - which isn't new. For months fans have been bemoaning the lack of CDM cover and slamming JWP for being off form when he's had to cover the defensive duties and play deeper. I don't know what rock you have been living under to not realise that. 

Edited 15 January, 2023 by Saint86

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

Our form has picked up since Lavia has been fit and can play in CDM, which allows JWP to play further forward - which isn't new. For months fans have been bemoaning the lack of CDM cover and slamming JWP for being off form when he's had to cover the defensive duties. I don't know what rock you have been living under to not realise that. 

Jones came in and immediately told The board we need more experience, maybe during the summer we’d have got that where we needed it rather than spunking £8m on a third choice 18 year old left back

Edited 15 January, 2023 by Turkish

[Saint86]

4 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

Our form has picked up since Lavia has been fit and can play in CDM, which allows JWP to play further forward - which isn't new. For months fans have been bemoaning the lack of CDM cover and slamming JWP for being off form when he's had to cover the defensive duties. I don't know what rock you have been living under to not realise that. 

Transpires we've had this debate before, and you didn't grasp it then either...

On 27/12/2022 at 11:37, Lord Duckhunter said:

He’s the club captain, he’s an experienced pro, he’s the one who is meant to be driving this young players on, helping them a la Jimmy Case. Instead of that we get excuses from some posters, he’d be better with better players, it’s the crap players fault he’s poor. He basically sums the club up. Nice boy, good pro, tactically and emotionally intelligent, educated speaks properly, probably nice to his parents, but fucking soft, one paced & not nasty enough to play the role we need. Get rid asap and get a pirate in instead. 

You think JWP is "Pony", fair enough... You won't get many people to agree with you, but fair enough.

Edited 15 January, 2023 by Saint86

[pimpin4rizeal]

In the 90s we had le tiss now we have prowsey.. might not be on matts level but his free kicks are goat and he’s starting to put himself into legend territory

[Lord Duckhunter]

38 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

Transpires we've had this debate before, and you didn't grasp it then either...

You think JWP is "Pony", fair enough... You won't get many people to agree with you, but fair enough.

He was pony for months, fucking pony. He’s played a couple of decent games under Jones this week. You know Jones ? the bloke you wanted sacked….

[Lord Duckhunter]

And while we’re on the subject. Saint 86 was the bloke who couldn’t understand how Jonesy (who he wanted sacked) played Che Adams today. You know, the Che Adams that had an assist for the first goal & won the free kick for the second goal. 

[rooney]

Captain Fantastic.

[Saint_clark]

8 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

He was still mincing about when Lavia did play. Lavia came off Weds and again today, Jonesy didn’t change Prowse role. I know you’re the President of the Cult, but Ralph was clearly holding him back this season. 

All last season, with Romeu playing in DM, JWP played an advanced role under Ralph and ended up with double figures for goals. 

[Saint Fan CaM]

JWP is a bit of an enigma to me. He’s definitely better in a more forward midfield role, but he’s not a natural ball carrier. His corners are not really effective (why persist…mix it up?), but of course he’s one of the best dead ball free kick specialists in the Prem. Under Jones I think he’s becoming more of a leader, but sometimes still comes across as an educated son-in-law (which might be a good thing?). He’s definitely one of our better senior players and his loyalty to the club is commendable, but is he a ‘luxury player’?  No, not based on his goal return which we’ve desperately needed, but this season really is a defining one for the lad IMO.

Edited 15 January, 2023 by Saint Fan CaM

[Saint_clark]

6 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

JWP is a bit of an enigma to me. He’s definitely better in a more forward midfield role, but he’s not a natural ball carrier. His corners are not really effective (why persist…mix it up?), but of course he’s one of the best dead ball free kick specialists in the Prem. Under Jones I think he’s becoming more of a leader, but sometimes still comes across as an educated son-in-law (which might be a good thing?). He’s definitely one of our better senior players and his loyalty to the club is commendable, but is he a ‘luxury player’?  No, not based on his goal return which we’ve desperately needed, but this season really is a defining one for the lad IMO.

His corners are fine, we just haven't had anyone effective at getting on the end of a set piece since Van Dijk left. All our defenders now seem to sh*t themselves when heading the ball in an attacking sense and close their eyes really early, meaning it just bounces up and over. 

[Saint Fan CaM]

6 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

His corners are fine, we just haven't had anyone effective at getting on the end of a set piece since Van Dijk left. All our defenders now seem to sh*t themselves when heading the ball in an attacking sense and close their eyes really early, meaning it just bounces up and over. 

Mmm, sorry but disagree. His corners always have same trajectory - high and looping up so easy for keepers and defenders to adjust to. I do agree we’ve not got enough intelligent movement in the box though…i.e. nobody arriving late to meet the ball. Not saying take him off all corners, but mixing it up like we did when Redmond was around might not be a bad thing, particularly as it gives JWP the chance to get on 2nd balls on the edge of the box.

[Give it to Ron]

Looking at replays Everton we’re trying to get a player on line. I think it was Forest did that too we may need to mix that and look at players taking advantage and get someone close not Che he isn’t good from a yard 🙂

[Saint_clark]

Just now, Give it to Ron said:

Looking at replays Everton we’re trying to get a player on line. I think it was Forest did that too we may need to mix that and look at players taking advantage and get someone close not Che he isn’t good from a yard 🙂

If they're going to start putting players on the line then all we have to do is drop the ball in behind the defence for someone who would otherwise be in an offside position.

[Give it to Ron]

Just now, Saint_clark said:

If they're going to start putting players on the line then all we have to do is drop the ball in behind the defence for someone who would otherwise be in an offside position.

That’s what I said wasn’t it?

[Saint_clark]

5 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said:

That’s what I said wasn’t it?

That's what I was saying.

 

Edit; sorry, just messing. Didn't read your initial post properly. 

Edited 15 January, 2023 by Saint_clark

[jimmer42]

15 hours ago, egg said:

As a DM he's been shite. Where he's played the last couple of games, he's been decent. 

That said, I didn't say he was shit and unsellable. I asked which top 6 side would buy him and play him. 

Liverpool for a start.....and Chelsea

Oh sorry you said top six

[Daft Kerplunk]

JWP has been reborn. He also seems to love Jones. He was the player that pushed Jones out towards the fans yesterday to get some cheers. Happy players play better. Funny that. 

[jimmer42]

8 hours ago, Saint86 said:

Our form has picked up since Lavia has been fit and can play in CDM, which allows JWP to play further forward - which isn't new. For months fans have been bemoaning the lack of CDM cover and slamming JWP for being off form when he's had to cover the defensive duties and play deeper. I don't know what rock you have been living under to not realise that. 

Correct....thick as a plank of wood some people. He's the one bit of genuine class we have....well Lavia as well. That boy is destined for greatness

[Sheaf Saint]

Jones called him "one of the best technicians in the PL". Hard to disagree - his technical ability has never been in doubt. 

Prior to Ralph's tenure, I always thought his best position was on the right of a 4231 and he wasn't suited at all to a deeper role. When Ralph first moved him there and paired him with Romeu, he initially had some good performances there but he can't play that role without a Romeu type alongside him, and he had begun to regress badly.

Now we've got Lavia which has allowed us to play JWP in the more advanced role and he's clearly relishing it. Almost like having a new signing in AM. Hopefully when Orsic gets up to speed they can form a lethal combination.

[LiberalCommunist]

Lovely that his turn of form will coincide with him becoming top in our all time epl appearance chart.

May even break some other scoring records if things continue like this. 

(shame the official prem page has taken away the club stats)

[egg]

1 hour ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

JWP is a bit of an enigma to me. He’s definitely better in a more forward midfield role, but he’s not a natural ball carrier. His corners are not really effective (why persist…mix it up?), but of course he’s one of the best dead ball free kick specialists in the Prem. Under Jones I think he’s becoming more of a leader, but sometimes still comes across as an educated son-in-law (which might be a good thing?). He’s definitely one of our better senior players and his loyalty to the club is commendable, but is he a ‘luxury player’?  No, not based on his goal return which we’ve desperately needed, but this season really is a defining one for the lad IMO.

I'm partly with you. He's technically strong, he takes a great free kick, his corners are ok, he works hard, his engine is superb, he organises. He's not great in the tackle though, he doesn't carry the ball between the lines, and he's not the quickest in releasing the ball. It's those slight negatives that I think has meant he's not had a big move and/or been an England regular. He's a very good player, and one that I hope stays with us, but he's not quite at the top level. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

10 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

He was still mincing about when Lavia did play. Lavia came off Weds and again today, Jonesy didn’t change Prowse role. I know you’re the President of the Cult, but Ralph was clearly holding him back this season. 

 

2 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

All last season, with Romeu playing in DM, JWP played an advanced role under Ralph and ended up with double figures for goals. 

So in answer to my point that Ralph was holding him back this season, you bring up last season? 🤪

 

I can’t remember too many times that Prowse, or any other midfielder, arrived like he did for the first goal. Get the ball up to the forward & run off him. Not since Koeman have we really done that regularly , if it becomes a regular tactic it’ll be another feather in jonseys cap. 

[saintant]

2 hours ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

JWP is a bit of an enigma to me. He’s definitely better in a more forward midfield role, but he’s not a natural ball carrier. His corners are not really effective (why persist…mix it up?), but of course he’s one of the best dead ball free kick specialists in the Prem. Under Jones I think he’s becoming more of a leader, but sometimes still comes across as an educated son-in-law (which might be a good thing?). He’s definitely one of our better senior players and his loyalty to the club is commendable, but is he a ‘luxury player’?  No, not based on his goal return which we’ve desperately needed, but this season really is a defining one for the lad IMO.

When Orsic becomes a regular I would expect him to be taking some of the corners particularly on the left where he can whip in in-swingers with his right foot.  I agree JWP needs to mix his corners up. We need more work done on corners on the training ground because ours seem quite easy to defend against. Not to mention we need to work on defending corners better.

[Roo1976]

1 hour ago, egg said:

I'm partly with you. He's technically strong, he takes a great free kick, his corners are ok, he works hard, his engine is superb, he organises. He's not great in the tackle though, he doesn't carry the ball between the lines, and he's not the quickest in releasing the ball. It's those slight negatives that I think has meant he's not had a big move and/or been an England regular. He's a very good player, and one that I hope stays with us, but he's not quite at the top level. 

Very nice analysis there .Nice to see him in a more advanced position than previous.Maybe hes more open to others around him being trusted to play their part and cover the gaps properly.

[Daft Kerplunk]

3 hours ago, egg said:

I'm partly with you. He's technically strong, he takes a great free kick, his corners are ok, he works hard, his engine is superb, he organises. He's not great in the tackle though, he doesn't carry the ball between the lines, and he's not the quickest in releasing the ball. It's those slight negatives that I think has meant he's not had a big move and/or been an England regular. He's a very good player, and one that I hope stays with us, but he's not quite at the top level. 

I agree. His awareness of other players around him is very good. This new position suits him though as tackling and driving forward with the ball from the defensive third to the final third is not as big a requirement, and they are his weakest areas. 

[Kingsland Codger]

One year ago today (15 January) - JWP's free-kick v Wolves

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQdEplTv0_0 

[Saint86]

5 hours ago, jimmer42 said:

Correct....thick as a plank of wood some people. He's the one bit of genuine class we have....well Lavia as well. That boy is destined for greatness

Quite. Although I'd argue kwp is also class.

Re jwp, Imagine being played in a more advanced role, contributing to attacks, arriving late, spreading forward passing and crosses... Then romeu is sold and Lavia gets injured, and so instead you have to cover the cdm role and carry one of diallo or AMN on your back in central midfield.. Bad enough right? But then you have part of a fanbase that expect you to not only perform to the same proficiency as a cdm, whilst also offering the same attacking output... 🤣😂.

Edited 15 January, 2023 by Saint86

[tajjuk]

I seriously don't get why people doubt him considering how well he has done, especially under different managers and different roles, despite us being consistently poor for about 3-4 years. (As someone above said his corners are good but we barely have anyone to attack them, none of our defenders in recent times have been excellent at heading/jumping, whilst also being aggressive). 

People also forget he's a top pro, he is intelligent, IIRC Ralph called him his manager of the pitch because he always carried out his instructions on the pitch so well and instructed others. If he's told to play a certain way, he'll play that way, probably that is often too his detriment. 

He's also added some bite to his game over recent years, bit of sh*thousery, he's definitely a bit stronger and bit harder in the tackle than he used to be, he's never going to be great at this because of his size and build but he's got enough about him as long as you are not relying on him to be the main defensive mid which he isn't now Lavia is there and we are playing a three.

Plus he works for days, barely ever seems to get injured, is able to put in a shift week in week out, playing multiple games full 90 minutes. That in itself is a unique talent, to be that fit, cover that much ground and constantly keep it up throughout a season.

Then as we have seen when he has some licence to get forward, he can make intelligent runs, he's composed, got a very good strike on him, can pass the ball well both short and long, and even has a very good cross on him.

He's got clear weaknesses, mainly physical, he's not quick, he's not tall and he's not particularly strong but I feel multiple managers have never really got the best out of him, probably because he's an intelligent and reliable player which means he can do multiple roles well and carry out instructions, almost too much of a good pro he's just fitted in and done the role ask of him. Even filling in at right back pretty damn well on several occasions.  We had a short spell under Ralph where we utilised him in the inside channel so he could put some wicked crossed into the back post, most notably against Spurs, but then barely seemed to try it again. He's had a few games in the past where he had a bit more licence to get forward in the box more and he scored a few goals only for him to quickly get shoved back again. 

It's good to see Jones recognising that this guy is our best player, let's maximise the use of his talents and get the best out of him.

I also disagree that big 6 clubs wouldn't have him, I think they would love him. He wouldn't necessarily be a guaranteed starter but he'd play a big role I think. A guy who works that hard, is extremely technically proficient, world class set piece taker, who barely gets injured and is able to play at a high tempo level in back to back games maintaining that intensity, who is also intelligent on the pitch and is able to carry out the manager's instructions to a tee and is able to play multiple positions to a good level.  Plus is English for registration stuff, a model pro, and a leader. Of course they would want such a player.  Just don't think they would want to pay the £60-70 maybe even £80 million to prize him away from us and I don't think he would make a fuss about leaving.  City paid £50 million for Phillips and JWP is better than him IMO, look how much Liverpool have valued a player like Milner and used him so much. 

Suppose we will see if we do end up getting relegated, where he ends up. 

[egg]

22 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

But then you have part of a fanbase that expect you to not only perform to the same proficiency as a cdm, whilst also offering the same attacking output... 🤣😂.

Where's that been said/posted? The criticism has been of him as a defensive midfielder, where he's not been great. If you're gonna have a pop at the critics, get it right. 

[East Kent Saint]

7 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

His corners are fine, we just haven't had anyone effective at getting on the end of a set piece since Van Dijk left. All our defenders now seem to sh*t themselves when heading the ball in an attacking sense and close their eyes really early, meaning it just bounces up and over. 

He put one corner onto Salisu’s head on the 6 yard line yesterday but header off target 

[gio1saints]

If we go down JWP deserves to play wherever he wants. He is certainly one player I say gives his utmost for the club badge, every time. He is already a legend in my eyes. In the last forty years MLT is his only rival as the overall "best" SFC player though id have to defer to MLT simply because he did not have the luxury of a dead ball to kick for many of his goals so not only did he have shooting but he had dribbling and ball control. Neither had any pace of course. 

Our speediest player of last forty years was Danny Wallace btw. Not Theo. Not Bale. Not Mane. IMO of course.   

Our best ever Centre back of last forty years was Virgil.

Our best goalie was of last forty years Shilts. 

Don't know where that came from but feel free to disagree.    

   

Edited 16 January, 2023 by gio1saints

[Totton Saint]

On 15/01/2023 at 00:17, Saint86 said:

Transpires we've had this debate before, and you didn't grasp it then either...

You think JWP is "Pony", fair enough... You won't get many people to agree with you, but fair enough.

Please read today's The Telegraphs sport section for an article giving a true perspective on JWP and what a good player he is

[Charlie Mealings]

The best free-kick taker debate is in full flow again, so I asked a mate of mine who works in football analytics if, statistically, he really is the best. I wrote about it here (spoiler: right now, he is). 

https://cmealings.substack.com/p/james-ward-prowse-is-statistically

[Weston Super Saint]

11 minutes ago, Charlie Mealings said:

The best free-kick taker debate is in full flow again, so I asked a mate of mine who works in football analytics if, statistically, he really is the best. I wrote about it here (spoiler: right now, he is). 

https://cmealings.substack.com/p/james-ward-prowse-is-statistically

Woop.  Statistical analysis using xG 

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 hours ago, gio1saints said:

If we go down JWP deserves to play wherever he wants. He is certainly one player I say gives his utmost for the club badge, every time. He is already a legend in my eyes. In the last forty years MLT is his only rival as the overall "best" SFC player though id have to defer to MLT simply because he did not have the luxury of a dead ball to kick for many of his goals 

   

He’s not the second best SFC player the past 40 years. 

[gio1saints]

21 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

He’s not the second best SFC player the past 40 years. 

By my extremely subjective and easy to argue against criteria he is. 

By objective criteria such as International caps, honours, goals, awards etc of course he's not.  Can anybody really argue he is better than the current European Player of the year Kevin Keegan for instance or respectively Worlds most expensive players Bale and Van Dyke? Or runner up African player of the year Mane? Or England heroes Mick Channon  Peter Shilton or Alan Shearer. Maybe not even young english player of the year Steve Moran! No, of course not. He's not even the nastiest or hardest. oh but yeah actually he was better than Stevie Moran tbf. 

But JWP has played away in Division one at on a wet Tuesday night. And at Wembley and everywhere in-between And worked his legs off every single game he has ever played for us. He plays to the fullest extent of his ability EVERY match. He is not the fastest the strongest most vocal inspirational cleverest or the most creative and apart from hitting a stationary ball and running further than everyone else every match his stats are otherwise (relatively- please in context) unremarkable.  And yet he represents the best of Saints to me as our Captain. He makes the best of what he's got and always tries his hardest. He is not graet but he busts a gut every time and is a brilliant role for making up with hard work what he lacks in other areas. That's why he my second best SFC player of last 40 years.      

 

[Fabrice Fernandes no.1 fan]

25 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

By my extremely subjective and easy to argue against criteria he is. 

By objective criteria such as International caps, honours, goals, awards etc of course he's not.  Can anybody really argue he is better than the current European Player of the year Kevin Keegan for instance or respectively Worlds most expensive players Bale and Van Dyke? Or runner up African player of the year Mane? Or England heroes Mick Channon  Peter Shilton or Alan Shearer. Maybe not even young english player of the year Steve Moran! No, of course not. He's not even the nastiest or hardest. oh but yeah actually he was better than Stevie Moran tbf. 

But JWP has played away in Division one at on a wet Tuesday night. And at Wembley and everywhere in-between And worked his legs off every single game he has ever played for us. He plays to the fullest extent of his ability EVERY match. He is not the fastest the strongest most vocal inspirational cleverest or the most creative and apart from hitting a stationary ball and running further than everyone else every match his stats are otherwise (relatively- please in context) unremarkable.  And yet he represents the best of Saints to me as our Captain. He makes the best of what he's got and always tries his hardest. He is not graet but he busts a gut every time and is a brilliant role for making up with hard work what he lacks in other areas. That's why he my second best SFC player of last 40 years.      

 

He was also kept out of the side for years by Steven Davis and Hojbjerg, and was our second best player behind Redmond and Ings respectively across a few years.

He represents hard work and longevity, coupled with a reasonably high level of performance, but on that basis for me he sits alongside Lundekvam, Dodd, Beattie, Lambert, Schneiderlin as players who were of good quality without necessarily being the best player and were of good service.

If he carries on at the recent level, and is what keeps us up then yes that elevates him, but not to the top two.

[The Kraken]

Nothing wrong with saying JWP (or anyone else) is one of your favourite players. He’s certainly one of my faves from the past few years. It’s a high accolade to say second best ever though. Two of my favourite saints players down the years have been Mark Dennis and Jimmy Case, they’d walk into my favourite Saints XI. Technically, perhaps not in the best Saints XI of my lifetime, but emotion rules logic in this instance.

[Osvaldorama]

We are very lucky to have him, and anyone that slates him or calls him “pony” is a moron and knows nothing about football. He could definitely play at a higher level.  
 

He never was the problem in our poor form, he always works his socks off and he always delivers when it matters. 
 

Every other opposition fan that I know loves him and it’s only a small minority of dinlo saints fans online that would moan about anything that don’t rate him. 

[Verbal]

14 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

We are very lucky to have him, and anyone that slates him or calls him “pony” is a moron and knows nothing about football. He could definitely play at a higher level.  
 

He never was the problem in our poor form, he always works his socks off and he always delivers when it matters. 
 

Every other opposition fan that I know loves him and it’s only a small minority of dinlo saints fans online that would moan about anything that don’t rate him. 

Which moron could you possibly have in mind?

[washsaint]

32 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Nothing wrong with saying JWP (or anyone else) is one of your favourite players. He’s certainly one of my faves from the past few years. It’s a high accolade to say second best ever though. Two of my favourite saints players down the years have been Mark Dennis and Jimmy Case, they’d walk into my favourite Saints XI. Technically, perhaps not in the best Saints XI of my lifetime, but emotion rules logic in this instance.

Agreed, as I was also have Benali in there!

[Saint Garrett]

Absolutely love the bloke and been a pleasure seeing him grow over the last 5 years. Wouldn’t swap him for many others in this league. He sets the tone with his professionalism and hard work, and I have so much time for that. Keep growing Prowsey! 

[Fraser Spinney]

Wrote the below article about how Ward-Prowse's new role is getting the best out of him and allowing him to be a key attacking influence. Check it out if you fancy it.

https://analyticsunited.co.uk/2023/01/16/james-ward-prowses-new-role/

[MarkSFC]

I stated on one or two threads over the summer that he needed to be used further forward. Only taken 6 months and a manager who we've all hated for 5 games to make it happen!!!

 

 

 

 

 

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 hours ago, Osvaldorama said:

We are very lucky to have him, and anyone that slates him or calls him “pony” is a moron and knows nothing about football. He could definitely play at a higher level.  
 

 

Anyone who doesn’t think he’s been pony prior to the World Cup is a moron who doesn’t know anything about football. We’re not “lucky” to have him, anymore than we were lucky to have OR, Steve Davis or Danny Ings. It’s such a noddy attitude, 
 

He’s played a couple of good games under Jonsey & all of a sudden he’s up there with Matt. There’s a reason Lallana, Mane, Morgan, Big Vic, Shaw, VvD moved on and he didn’t, and it’s nothing to do with loyalty. 

At the moment he wouldn’t get in our best side of the past 10 years, let alone the past 40. Talk about getting carried away. He needs to maintain this level a bit longer than 3 games before objective people will start gushing over him. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

4 hours ago, gio1saints said:

He plays to the fullest extent of his ability EVERY match. 

 

He has had some absolute stinkers the past year, so that’s pony for a start. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

If Jones had come in earlier he’d probably have made the World Cup squad. 

[SNSUN]

Technically gifted with a great engine and good passer of the ball that we all know can score goals... it was a bit of a no brainer that he'd be better further forward, our issue has been a lack of alternative midfield options otherwise. He can be a similar influence (or better) as Steven Davis was in the middle of last decade. But as for our other CM options we have Lavia of course but then have to partner him with Diallo or AMN so he's had to play deeper. We need another CM/DM. Imagine Romeu alongside Lavia with JWP ahead. Sounds great. Shame we'll never see it.

[The Kraken]

It is certainly noticeable how much more forward JWP is being asked to play, and isn’t he just revelling in it.  I’m not sure I’ve ever heard JWP described as a “number 10” before but it’s very welcome, as such he’s far and away our best goal threat right now. Often breaking beyond Adams, especially so for his goal but also various other occasions through the match too.
 

Im not sure about the first graphic you’ve used which basically suggests an intention to start with a 3 at the back and Elmo at RWB. The average positions second graphic shows how more advanced Elmo obviously was throughout the game (I assume it’s the same graphic that whoscored.com use for their average player positions, so I assume it’s as accurate as it can be). Lyanco’s inclusion allows Saints a fluid formation throughout the game but if I had to give that starting lineup a particular formation then personally I’d suggest it was a 4 at the back, with Lyanco instructed to hold position much more than KWP on the other flank.