James Ward-Prowse

[Jeremy Corbyn]

JWP leaving would be a loss, but if we sold him for £50m next season and Diallo is able to step up we would be in a stronger position for it.  The £50 would be a very decent keeper and CB.

[trousers]

40 minutes ago, adriansfc said:

Liverpool would be a great fit for him. They play 3 mids and plenty of them get chances, he could do really well with someone like Fabinho. I imagine they'd see him as a Milner replacement. Someone who people continually underrate but really helps the team. Few have better fitness or work rate, he can pass and tackle. Never going to be a stand out star player in open play but that doesn't mean he isn't a really decent player. Add in the set pieces and I'm surprised more haven't bid. 

But the new contract to me signifies a wage rise to stay this season as losing him and Ings together would be a disaster. It almost certainly includes an understanding of him leaving next summer. From his point of view, what more can he achieve here while we're broke? From ours, who else do we sell?

Yeah KWP, Livramento, maybe even Salisu could be worth a bit by then. But selling one player for a big fee and keeping most the team together seems more sensible. Given we'll need to sell again, £45-50m there won't be turned down will it. We could then buy a keeper, maybe 2 CMs and perhaps Broja. 

Agree with this. I wouldn't begrudge JWP a move to the likes of Liverpool next summer. I want him to forge a regular place in the England squad and, rightly or wrongly, the only way he'll realistically achieve that is by stepping up a level or two in the PL. And, yep, it's the best (only?) way of realising next season's wider transfer budget, given our 'self sufficiency' financial constraints.

Edited 10 September, 2021 by trousers

[Verbal Kint]

On 10/09/2021 at 19:04, TWar said:

He lead our team last season for both progressive passes and chance creation from (aside from the strikers) and was pretty highly ranked in the league too. I think confirmation bias may be at play a bit here, given every player will pass sidewards and backwards quite often but people look out for them from prowsey 

When you look average progressive passes per game I think he fell below Romeu and was nowhere near the top of the league though? Ditto chance creation?

I expected his chance creation stats to be much higher given his set piece ability.

[Maya's Dad]

On 10/09/2021 at 19:07, Mosin said:

For the position he plays, he is one of the most creative dms in the league... Name one dm who got more assists last season?....  Was 14th in the league last season in all positions.. As a DM,, let that settle and think of a reply... 

Never a DM. He is a box to box all day long. Romeu is a DM

[TWar]

2 hours ago, Verbal Kint said:

When you look average progressive passes per game I think he fell below Romeu and was nowhere near the top of the league though? Ditto chance creation?

I expected his chance creation stats to be much higher given his set piece ability.

I have his chances created last season as 60, which is best of all our players in our team and 11th best in the league. Also best of any central midfielder except KdB, Bruno, Gross and Mount (depending on CM definition).

 

Different stat websites have different definitions of chances created though.

 

Progressive passes he is best in our team by a mile and 19th best in the league

 

Again though, different websites/different metrics. 

These aren't normalised for minutes otherwise the top players have all played barely any minutes, you can filter by minimum minutes played but I haven't as it's a pain to do!

Edited 11 September, 2021 by TWar

[Mosin]

1 hour ago, Maya's Dad said:

Never a DM. He is a box to box all day long. Romeu is a DM

No, watch us play, they both play dm / cm, jwp covers rb, and OR covers for the lb when they push up, they both watch the back line too alternating who pushes forward when play allows, but mostly they both sit in front of the back 4 and very rarely push up to the final 3rd, this allows the full backs to push high up providing the width we other wise wouldnt have playing 4222. Although i agree OR is the more defensive of them both and jwp leads the press, jwp doesnt push forward enough to warrent being called a box to box as he doesnt push to get to the box OR does this as jwp stays deeper. Here have a peak at this  https://www.coachesvoice.com/james-ward-prowse-southampton-ralph-hasenhuttl/ 

[Verbal Kint]

11 hours ago, TWar said:

I have his chances created last season as 60, which is best of all our players in our team and 11th best in the league. Also best of any central midfielder except KdB, Bruno, Gross and Mount (depending on CM definition).

 

Different stat websites have different definitions of chances created though.

 

Progressive passes he is best in our team by a mile and 19th best in the league

 

Again though, different websites/different metrics. 

These aren't normalised for minutes otherwise the top players have all played barely any minutes, you can filter by minimum minutes played but I haven't as it's a pain to do!

For progressive passes, when you take out the anomalies (those who have played fewer than 10 games) JWP still doesn't even make the top 50 players in the league, and is behind Romeu. 

The chances created stats I can access show a similar story

 

[bpsaint]

As Captain JWP is going to start every game he’s fit by default, even though with a fully fit side he wouldn’t make my starting line up as free kicks aside I don’t think he actually contributes that much.

I’d have been happy to take the £50 mill and make Stuart Armstrong team captain.

[tajjuk]

22 hours ago, TWar said:

I have his chances created last season as 60, which is best of all our players in our team and 11th best in the league. Also best of any central midfielder except KdB, Bruno, Gross and Mount (depending on CM definition).

 

Different stat websites have different definitions of chances created though.

 

Progressive passes he is best in our team by a mile and 19th best in the league

 

Again though, different websites/different metrics. 

These aren't normalised for minutes otherwise the top players have all played barely any minutes, you can filter by minimum minutes played but I haven't as it's a pain to do!

Both Fernandes and Mount are attacking mids, Mount has played as one of the attacking front 3 IIRC for Chelsea quite a lot, but both will have 2 other centre mids behind them most of the time. 

JWP operates in a double pivot, which means on average he will be deeper than almost anyone in that chances created list. 

[Jeremy Corbyn]

20 hours ago, bpsaint said:

As Captain JWP is going to start every game he’s fit by default, even though with a fully fit side he wouldn’t make my starting line up as free kicks aside I don’t think he actually contributes that much.

I’d have been happy to take the £50 mill and make Stuart Armstrong team captain.

You can see that Diallo offers a lot more dynamism during open play, I find JWP's default setting to pass backwards and sideways very limiting to our play.

[Nordic Saint]

21 minutes ago, Jeremy Corbyn said:

You can see that Diallo offers a lot more dynamism during open play, I find JWP's default setting to pass backwards and sideways very limiting to our play.

I think Ward-Prowse offers much more. I understand that Diallo is a defensive midfielder but for any midfield player to fail to score a single goal and to only have one assist (none in England) in his entire career is not what you want to see in a team that already offers few goalscoring options. With Ward-Prowse, you know you are going to get goals and assists every year.

[CB Fry]

I didn't realise Diallo has played around 100 professional games at various levels and never, ever scored. Wow.

Still, more "dynamic" than boring old James Ward-Prowse (9, 5 and 7 goals from midfield in the last three seasons).

Edited 13 September, 2021 by CB Fry

[Toussaint]

On 12/09/2021 at 12:33, bpsaint said:

As Captain JWP is going to start every game he’s fit by default, even though with a fully fit side he wouldn’t make my starting line up as free kicks aside I don’t think he actually contributes that much.

I’d have been happy to take the £50 mill and make Stuart Armstrong team captain.

I think he contributes an enormous amount, it just isn't eye catching. He is the sort of players managers love, he does the grunty stuff. I find it incredible he can be joining in with an attack, then, as it often has, the attack breaks down and we are under a swift counter, who is there covering the defence? It's like there are two of him on the pitch.  

[Toussaint]

7 hours ago, Jeremy Corbyn said:

You can see that Diallo offers a lot more dynamism during open play, I find JWP's default setting to pass backwards and sideways very limiting to our play.

I haven't seen anything in Diallo so far that makes me think he will be an influential premier league player. I hope to be proven wrong. 

[SFC Forever]

personally I would let both Diallo and JWP go if sensible offers come in for them. Redmond I would let go for a pittance.

[miserableoldgit]

So unhappy that he signed a new contract! https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/james-ward-prowse-aston-villa-21554756

[S-Clarke]

25 minutes ago, miserableoldgit said:

So unhappy that he signed a new contract! https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/james-ward-prowse-aston-villa-21554756

Talk about clickbate crap.

The 'he's not supper happy about that' is derived from Ralph comments about him not going to the Euros! Bloody media.

Edited 14 September, 2021 by S-Clarke

[HarvSFC]

The fact that Ings walked straight into the England team after his move to Aston Villa only added to his misery! Oh...

[pimpin4rizeal]

On 12/09/2021 at 12:33, bpsaint said:

As Captain JWP is going to start every game he’s fit by default, even though with a fully fit side he wouldn’t make my starting line up as free kicks aside I don’t think he actually contributes that much.

I’d have been happy to take the £50 mill and make Stuart Armstrong team captain.

I kind of agree with a lot of this, one thing I’m starting to think is maybe jwp doesn’t really suit us as a player.. yes he’s a exceptional free kick taker but that aside really for me he’s just a neat and tidy player with a decent work rate, it’s very very rare he completely bosses a game that has some huge impact in our results.

for example xavi was amazing for Spain and barca with his tidy passing but he had pace and creativity all round him so it worked a treat jwp can be neat and tidy but if the players he pass to do nothing with it how does it help us?

maybe having some brick shit house midfielders who can physically dominate the opposition would be more beneficial for us as a team ?

[verlaine1979]

51 minutes ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

I kind of agree with a lot of this, one thing I’m starting to think is maybe jwp doesn’t really suit us as a player.. yes he’s a exceptional free kick taker but that aside really for me he’s just a neat and tidy player with a decent work rate, it’s very very rare he completely bosses a game that has some huge impact in our results.

for example xavi was amazing for Spain and barca with his tidy passing but he had pace and creativity all round him so it worked a treat jwp can be neat and tidy but if the players he pass to do nothing with it how does it help us?

maybe having some brick shit house midfielders who can physically dominate the opposition would be more beneficial for us as a team ?

Did you ever actually see Xavi play? 'Neat and tidy' perhaps undervalues the contribution of one of the most incisive passers of the past twenty years or so.

As someone said above, JWP is important to us and very hard working, but you never see him running a game.

Xavi didn't run games because he had better players around him - he ran games because he read the play better than anyone else, and he could keep the ball as long as he wanted until a pass opened up.

[CB Fry]

1 hour ago, verlaine1979 said:

Did you ever actually see Xavi play?

I did. He was very much the Spanish Jordy Clasie. 

[Mosin]

14 hours ago, verlaine1979 said:

Did you ever actually see Xavi play? 'Neat and tidy' perhaps undervalues the contribution of one of the most incisive passers of the past twenty years or so.

As someone said above, JWP is important to us and very hard working, but you never see him running a game.

Xavi didn't run games because he had better players around him - he ran games because he read the play better than anyone else, and he could keep the ball as long as he wanted until a pass opened up.

It wasnt just xavi controling the middle be fair... He did have iniesta next to him with busquest sat deep behind, two other world class players, its not like he wasnt in the greatest team the world has ever seen with the one of the best players ever seen in Messi with suarez and naymar uptop too like come on....  

He wouldnt control games in the epl all alone on a cold wet and windy saturday afternoon playing for stoke... 

[pimpin4rizeal]

20 hours ago, verlaine1979 said:

Did you ever actually see Xavi play? 'Neat and tidy' perhaps undervalues the contribution of one of the most incisive passers of the past twenty years or so.

As someone said above, JWP is important to us and very hard working, but you never see him running a game.

Xavi didn't run games because he had better players around him - he ran games because he read the play better than anyone else, and he could keep the ball as long as he wanted until a pass opened up.

Yeah I mean obviously that was a extreme example and I’m not directly comparing jwp to xavi, but like mosin says above a good passer like xavi who can play it also neat and tidy works a lot better if his passes go to the likes of Messi ronaldinho iniesta etc who can carry the ball . 

Probably wouldn’t work so well if your passing to other players who also play the simple pass or to Redmond djenepo etc.

i just think maybe jwp doesn’t really help us that much barring setpieces compared to say if we had a doucoure in midfield 

[John Boy Saint]

Bit on the Beeb this morning - most of it stuff we know already.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58350650

Edited 17 September, 2021 by John Boy Saint

[FarehamSaintJames]

Rated 81 on FIFA 22, allegedly, not that it has any bearing on his ability in life or in game. 🙄

[Totton Saint]

On 23/08/2021 at 09:04, S-Clarke said:

The most alarming thing in that article is the fact that he's now taken over Theo. Shouldn't he have been paid more than him already?

How much is f***ing Theo on??? The bloke isn't a footballer anymore.

As Theo was clubless he was hardly in a good bargaining position re his wages. So why pay him so much?

[thesaint sfc]

1 hour ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

Rated 81 on FIFA 22, allegedly, not that it has any bearing on his ability in life or in game. 🙄

It's really nuts how many players I've signed years ago on Fifa who turned into gems. Adam Armstrong for example - signed him a good few years ago on Fifa from Newcastle. The games shit at a lot of things but think they generally do pretty well with that bit somehow. 

[FarehamSaintJames]

23 hours ago, thesaint sfc said:

It's really nuts how many players I've signed years ago on Fifa who turned into gems. Adam Armstrong for example - signed him a good few years ago on Fifa from Newcastle. The games shit at a lot of things but think they generally do pretty well with that bit somehow. 

Yeah years back I bought the likes of “then prospects like Nathan Redmond, Nick Powell, plus the likes of Adam Armstrong etc” 🤣

Some obviously turned out better than others.

[Turkish]

On 17/09/2021 at 14:34, thesaint sfc said:

It's really nuts how many players I've signed years ago on Fifa who turned into gems. Adam Armstrong for example - signed him a good few years ago on Fifa from Newcastle. The games shit at a lot of things but think they generally do pretty well with that bit somehow. 

That’s because it’s a fictional computer game. 

[Saint_clark]

On 17/09/2021 at 14:12, Totton Saint said:

As Theo was clubless he was hardly in a good bargaining position re his wages. So why pay him so much?

Because there's no transfer fee involved. Free agents will always demand a higher weekly wage.

[Matthew Le God]

6 hours ago, Turkish said:

That’s because it’s a fictional computer game. 

A 'fictional computer game' would be a non existent game that is made up for something like a film or book.

[Turkish]

7 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

A 'fictional computer game' would be a non existent game that is made up for something like a film or book.

It may just as well be. When you can take a team from the conference to champions league winners it’s hard to take it seriously 

[Red]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

It may just as well be. When you can take a team from the conference to champions league winners it’s hard to take it seriously 

Just like some on here

[chuz]

Just been called up to England squad...

[Whitey Grandad]

2 minutes ago, chuz said:

Just been called up to England squad...

New hard man image.

[Toussaint]

27 minutes ago, chuz said:

Just been called up to England squad...

Does the suspension not apply to international matches?

[beatlesaint]

20 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

Does the suspension not apply to international matches?

No

[TWar]

1 hour ago, chuz said:

Just been called up to England squad...

Thoroughly deserved. Much better at that number 8 role than Phillips if we play a 3 man midfield

[LuckyNumber7]

Weird as I think he's been below par this season, that's Southgate for you though.

Pleased for Prowsey anyway.

[trousers]

1 hour ago, chuz said:

Just been called up to England squad...

CCTV footage just in from Lord D's office...

[HarvSFC]

Nice. Hopefully this and a well earned rest from his suspension will motivate him to get back to where he was last season. Not that I doubt his attitude, it just isn't coming off for him so far this season.

[Saint86]

To be honest this works out quite well. He gets a nice bit of motivation out of the squad and may get a goal etc. And it gives him a couple of matches to make up for the 3 he'll miss. Then get gets a bit of a break for a few games.

Also means Diallo and Armstrong should get a chance to get some minutes under their belts without having to all be rotated around the permanent JWP.

[captainchris]

In all honesty is JWP world class ? 

[Hayling Saint]

26 minutes ago, captainchris said:

In all honesty is JWP world class ? 

Is Kalvin Phillips?

[SaintSteve]

4 hours ago, TWar said:

Thoroughly deserved. Much better at that number 8 role than Phillips if we play a 3 man midfield

Phillips doesn’t play your so-called No 8 role. He’s just a far better footballer than Ward-Prowse will ever be. You should try going to our matches, he’s been poor this season which tells me you spend too much time on meaningless stats than actually watching a player to decide whether he’s performing.

[Toadhall Saint]

4 hours ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

Weird as I think he's been below par this season, that's Southgate for you though.

Pleased for Prowsey anyway.

This

[Minsk]

Just now, SaintSteve said:

Phillips doesn’t play your so-called No 8 role. He’s just a far better footballer than Ward-Prowse will ever be. You should try going to our matches, he’s been poor this season which tells me you spend too much time on meaningless stats than actually watching a player to decide whether he’s performing.

Pretty sure I watched JWP play KP off the park last season. So much so that KP was withdrawn at half-time.

[LiberalCommunist]

This isn't the worst suspension scenario for us.  With Armstrong on the way back, I'm quite looking forward to a different looking midfield. 

What we don't want to do in the next few games is lose a CB to a red. Then we are in trouble. 

[Hayling Saint]

1 minute ago, Minsk said:

Pretty sure I watched JWP play KP off the park last season. So much so that KP was withdrawn at half-time.

Correct

[davefizzy14]

Pleased for Prowsey he will use this call up as motivation to cement his place back in the squad after the summer. He will then get a good rest afterwards before being back in three games time