James Ward-Prowse

[egg]

1 hour ago, SNSUN said:

Moot anyway, he's not joining Villa.

And what's that based on? If they offer us money that tempts us, and chuck him an extra £40k + PW he'll be gone. Naive to think otherwise. 

[AlexLaw76]

Has there been any comment from the club about the Villa bid? anything from the club/Ralph that JwP is not for sale.

Anything from the player himself?

[Shroppie]

4 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Has there been any comment from the club about the Villa bid? anything from the club/Ralph that JwP is not for sale.

Anything from the player himself?

The bid was rejected out of hand with the comment that we have no interest in selling.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

1 minute ago, Shroppie said:

The bid was rejected out of hand with the comment that we have no interest in selling.

Which often translates to add an extra 10m to that figure and we'll start talking

[Shroppie]

4 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Which often translates to add an extra 10m to that figure and we'll start talking

They also described the bid as derisory, which probably my eans we'd need double.

[LiberalCommunist]

When they cash the Grealish cheque I'll be more worried, but we know they will have to dig deep. 

He'd be a massive gamble at anything north of 45M for them. Could see the pressure making it a nightmare move for a fee like that. 

Any that's not a dig at James, its just we know and recognise his limitations. They just see the highlights and look at the stats. 

Edited 31 July, 2021 by LiberalCommunist

[Lee On Solent Saint]

9 minutes ago, Shroppie said:

The bid was rejected out of hand with the comment that we have no interest in selling.

Can anyone remember the last time we turned down a bid for a "star player" and him actually staying? 

[Shroppie]

If they really only value him at 25-30M, we won't let him go. I'd guess they're trying to tempt him with big wages in the hope he'll then press to go, hoping to get away with a low fee.

I think he's very committed to Saints, but will be interesting.

[egg]

9 minutes ago, LiberalCommunist said:

When they cash the Grealish cheque I'll be more worried, but we know they will have to dig deep. 

He's be a massive gamble at anything north of 45M for them. Could see the pressure making it a nightmare move for a fee like that. 

Any that's not a dig at James, its just we know and recognise his limitations. They just see the highlights and look at the stats. 

Grealish is as good as gone, they signed Buendia in readiness and Bailey is the confirmation for me. 

[saintwbu]

They bid a similar amount for Emile Smith-Rowe and Arsenal basically told them to fuck off, and they did. Hopefully same happens here.

[Fabrice29]

I'm intrigued to know from the conspiracy theorists what exactly the club could have done/could do to convince you they have no interest in selling JWP and the bid was rejected without even being considered other than waiting for the end of the window?

[egg]

Just now, Fabrice29 said:

I'm intrigued to know from the conspiracy theorists what exactly the club could have done/could do to convince you they have no interest in selling JWP and the bid was rejected without even being considered other than waiting for the end of the window?

Conspiracy theorists? I'm not one of them, but I think we'll sell him if the right bid comes in and/or he's tempted by a big wage increase. 

If he's still here after the transfer window has shut, then the club will have convinced me that he's not for sale. 

[Sunglasses Ron]

37 minutes ago, Shroppie said:

If they really only value him at 25-30M, we won't let him go. I'd guess they're trying to tempt him with big wages in the hope he'll then press to go, hoping to get away with a low fee.

I think he's very committed to Saints, but will be interesting.

Of all our players over the years, I’m hoping he’ll be the one who doesn’t flip like a burger...

... but then I probably thought the same about Lallana.

[Dusic]

10 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

I'm intrigued to know from the conspiracy theorists what exactly the club could have done/could do to convince you they have no interest in selling JWP and the bid was rejected without even being considered other than waiting for the end of the window?

If Villa keep bidding then they obviously feel that stance can be changed.

We will sell if JWP makes it clear he wants to go. History tells us that.

[Lighthouse]

13 minutes ago, egg said:

I think we'll sell him if the right bid comes in and/or he's tempted by a big wage increase

You say that as if it's a debatable or contentious issue but the same statement could be made about 90% of players in world football. All it really comes down to is price and whether anyone's willing to pay it.

[Chez]

9 minutes ago, Sunglasses Ron said:

Of all our players over the years, I’m hoping he’ll be the one who doesn’t flip like a burger...

... but then I probably thought the same about Lallana.

I didn't see Bridge leaving us. Broke my heart seeing the story in the paper that he was joining Chelsea. Didn't imagine Lallana would leave either. Thought he was going to take Le Tiss' mantle and be a one club man. I guess I was pretty naive on both occasions. These days I expect players to depart as soon as they have a good season. Why on earth wouldn't they? More money, more prestige, more money...I suspect the thing that helps retain players most (at a club like us) is their family life. It certainly isn't loyalty. Doesn't exist, either way.

[Sunglasses Ron]

1 minute ago, Chez said:

I didn't see Bridge leaving us. Broke my heart seeing the story in the paper that he was joining Chelsea. Didn't imagine Lallana would leave either. Thought he was going to take Le Tiss' mantle and be a one club man. I guess I was pretty naive on both occasions. These days I expect players to depart as soon as they have a good season. Why on earth wouldn't they? More money, more prestige, more money...I suspect the thing that helps retain players most (at a club like us) is their family life. It certainly isn't loyalty. Doesn't exist, either way.

Yeah, we were given a false sense of security by MLT, a true maverick and a real unicorn amongst footballers.

Definitely expect JWP to go if Villa up to ~£35m, there’s no way he’d stay due to his love of the club.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

1 minute ago, Sunglasses Ron said:

Yeah, we were given a false sense of security by MLT, a true maverick and a real unicorn amongst footballers.

Definitely expect JWP to go if Villa up to ~£35m, there’s no way he’d stay due to his love of the club.

Did Le Tiss actually stay out of selfless loyalty to the club or was it just that it suited him to be here? He's come from the Channel Islands and deep down he knew that a place like London would be too big for him. Plus he'd have to work harder in training and on the pitch.

Did Benali or Dodd stay with us out of a duty to the club or because a big offer never materialised?

Ultimately everyone makes decisions for themselves I think.

[Sunglasses Ron]

2 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

Did Le Tiss actually stay out of selfless loyalty to the club or was it just that it suited him to be here? He's come from the Channel Islands and deep down he knew that a place like London would be too big for him. Plus he'd have to work harder in training and on the pitch.

Did Benali or Dodd stay with us out of a duty to the club or because a big offer never materialised?

Ultimately everyone makes decisions for themselves I think.

Very true.

MLT could easily have left too, sounds like his ex wife intervened when a contract was practically signed. Dodd and Benali were both great for us, but probably were never given the opportunity of a meaningful step up from Saints.

I wouldn’t begrudge JWP a move to Villa to be fair (if the money was right of course). It is a step up at this time and he’s been a great servant for us. 

[egg]

20 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

You say that as if it's a debatable or contentious issue but the same statement could be made about 90% of players in world football. All it really comes down to is price and whether anyone's willing to pay it.

To many on here its not even a debatable issue. To me there's an inevitability about it. 

[Chez]

3 minutes ago, Sunglasses Ron said:

Yeah, we were given a false sense of security by MLT, a true maverick and a real unicorn amongst footballers.

Definitely expect JWP to go if Villa up to ~£35m, there’s no way he’d stay due to his love of the club.

I can live with him going. I can live with all players going so long as we get lots of wedge nd we buy the right replacement. our financial model depends on it. if the recruitment can be trusted then these sales are a godsend. 

I actually see the club playing it pretty hard ball here and demanding a very decent fee. Villa will have the cash, but they will have to spend it. Villa seem to be going forward, so no reason why JWP wouldn't want to join them, but at the same time I don't see him forcing the move. Me being naive again perhaps. 

I have been critical of JWP in the past, but in the last two years he has upped his game and moving him into the middle has meant his lack of pace across the ground is not exposed. He actually impacts opponents now where before he used to just do doggies between players. there are a lot comments about his lack of forward passing, but he is a very good footballer. Not irreplaceable, but don't underestimate his ability.

[Chez]

its a good thing that teams come in for our players. When they don't, it means we have fuck all talent. Sell high, buy cheaper. A self sustaining club relies on deals like this. The question will be, can we bring in talent that is of an equal standard or maybe even better given time.

[revolution saint]

43 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

I'm intrigued to know from the conspiracy theorists what exactly the club could have done/could do to convince you they have no interest in selling JWP and the bid was rejected without even being considered other than waiting for the end of the window?

Well this really isn't in Roswell/Kennedy assassination/COVID vaccine/QANON level conspiracy theory is it?  All people are doing is speculating that JWP could be off and that missing the last two games could be linked. 

No one really knows - could be a coincidence or there might be legs in it but I think calling it a conspiracy theory is a bit OTT.  Let's be honest, when a player misses pre-season games after a bid has been made it does tend to lead to a departure at least some of the time.  The fact the club have dismissed the bid doesn't really make much difference - they've dismissed bids before only to sell.  Tell you what, give me a precedent where we've said a first team regular isn't for sale and haven't caved in and sold eventually.  Only one I can think of in recent years is Schneiderlin and even then it was only on the promise he could go the next year. 

So yeah, I wouldn't be convinced whatever the club said until the end of the transfer window SLAMS shut because there's been plenty more examples of us saying a player ISN'T for sale and then selling him than ones where they've stayed.

[SNSUN]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Conspiracy theorists? I'm not one of them, but I think we'll sell him if the right bid comes in and/or he's tempted by a big wage increase. 

If he's still here after the transfer window has shut, then the club will have convinced me that he's not for sale. 

Yeah we'll sell him if the right bid comes in... But the right bid will be way north of £50 million. We have absolutely no need to sell JWP and have already said he's not for sale. NOT FOR SALE. Yes all players have their price at a club like ours but it will be way more than Villa will be willing to pay for him. He has another 4 years on a contract he agreed to sign. We have no need to sell for at least two years. He ain't going anywhere unless the big, big bucks come in. Villa's supposed bid was an insult to us AND JWP.

 

The only way that will change is if he uncharacteristically throws his toys out the pram and hands in a transfer request. Even then we hold the cards because of the length of contract. 2 years left? Sure we'd probably sell him this summer for about £30-35 million. But he has 4, so we have no need to sell. (The other exception being relegation at the end of the season but even then we could get £25-30 million odd for him IMO.)

 

I know JWP has his knockers and always has had but he's integral to our team. In a summer where other players are expected to leave, I really don't think he's going anywhere.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Sell & move on. 

[egg]

4 minutes ago, SNSUN said:

Yeah we'll sell him if the right bid comes in... But the right bid will be way north of £50 million. We have absolutely no need to sell JWP and have already said he's not for sale. NOT FOR SALE. Yes all players have their price at a club like ours but it will be way more than Villa will be willing to pay for him. He has another 4 years on a contract he agreed to sign. We have no need to sell for at least two years. He ain't going anywhere unless the big, big bucks come in. Villa's supposed bid was an insult to us AND JWP.

 

The only way that will change is if he uncharacteristically throws his toys out the pram and hands in a transfer request. Even then we hold the cards because of the length of contract. 2 years left? Sure we'd probably sell him this summer for about £30-35 million. But he has 4, so we have no need to sell. (The other exception being relegation at the end of the season but even then we could get £25-30 million odd for him IMO.)

 

I know JWP has his knockers and always has had but he's integral to our team. In a summer where other players are expected to leave, I really don't think he's going anywhere.

Hard to disagree with much of that, but the suggestion that we'll get £50m for him is way off. He's a decent player, but he has very obvious limitations and is a million miles away from a £50m player. 

Edited 31 July, 2021 by egg

[Pilchards]

Done some digging as I know someone with close links to JWP.

Its all agent talk and James is not looking to leave for Villa.

He will never rule out a move for a champions league club if Saints accepted a bid but 100% he won’t ask for a move as he’s happy.

He certainly was looking at leaving during the Mark Hughes days as he never fitted in his plans which frustrated him.

[tajjuk]

Grealish isn't a £100 million player either, values and what clubs might sell for are completely different.

Also JWP is irreplaceable IMO, he's the best set piece taker in probably Europe's top 5 league bar maybe a waning Messi, that alone makes him very valuable. Add in the guy is a leader, has amazing work rate, consistency and has just played every minute of a shortened season, barely picking up a knock, is another hugely valuable asset for a modern footballer.  You aren't just going to find those qualities to drop into our team, his set pieces alone create like 30-40% of the chances we create and his fitness/work rate means we'd likely need to have even more cover in centre-mid as no replacement is likely to be able to keep up his levels of consistency and fitness, plus we'd need a new captain in a team that already IMO lacks leadership. 

We'd also likely be selling one of our best players, when another one of our best players in Ings is already likely to leave and the club needs to cash in on him, whereas JWP has 4 years left on his contract so there is zero pressure to sell. 

It would be dumb to sell him full stop IMO but If he goes for less than £50 million when Grealish is likely to go for a 100 and White has just gone for £50 million then the club have been very stupid IMO. 

[Fabrice29]

1 hour ago, revolution saint said:

Well this really isn't in Roswell/Kennedy assassination/COVID vaccine/QANON level conspiracy theory is it?  All people are doing is speculating that JWP could be off and that missing the last two games could be linked. 

No one really knows - could be a coincidence or there might be legs in it but I think calling it a conspiracy theory is a bit OTT.  Let's be honest, when a player misses pre-season games after a bid has been made it does tend to lead to a departure at least some of the time.  The fact the club have dismissed the bid doesn't really make much difference - they've dismissed bids before only to sell.  Tell you what, give me a precedent where we've said a first team regular isn't for sale and haven't caved in and sold eventually.  Only one I can think of in recent years is Schneiderlin and even then it was only on the promise he could go the next year. 

So yeah, I wouldn't be convinced whatever the club said until the end of the transfer window SLAMS shut because there's been plenty more examples of us saying a player ISN'T for sale and then selling him than ones where they've stayed.

I don't think it is OTT to be honest. They have told you he's got a slight niggle and they have said at every opportunity the bid was rejected without consideration and they have no intention to sell. I just find it odd that some are so bruised by history that they don't believe them and can't accept that it's possible that a) he's injured and b) we don't intend to sell him.

By the way, it's perfectly possible that he's injured, we don't intend to sell him and we still end up selling him. The situation could change, he could kick up a fuss or Villa/someone else could make a ridiculous bid that would be daft to reject, but it doesn't mean that anything they have said so far isn't true. I personally don't see either of those things happening FWIW. 

I also find it odd that if we were on the verge of selling him and were leaving him out deliberately that people think that Saints, Villa and JWP would all be perfectly okay with him still hanging around the group. It makes no sense for any party for him to be there like that, might as well be at home. 

As for examples...we both know the nature of football is there isn't many examples of that not just for us but in football as a whole. That said though, you won't find many recent examples of players we want to keep leaving for clubs that aren't a clear step up. 

Edited 31 July, 2021 by Fabrice29

[SNSUN]

35 minutes ago, egg said:

Hard to disagree with much of that, but the suggestion that we'll get £50m for him is way off. He's a decent player, but he has very obvious limitations and is a million miles away from a £50m player. 

I agree, he's not a £50 million player per se. What would I pay for him if I were Villa boss? I probably wouldn't want to pay more than £35 million for him. That'd be my final offer. But Saints wouldn't let him go for anywhere near that for an integral captain, academy product, England international and with 4 years left on his contract. Saints will want north of £50 million and that's why Villa won't get him. If they DO pay £50 million or more, it would completely rebuild this team with a couple of quality additions, and Villa will have overpaid.

 

Short of one of the big 4 making a huge bid around that £50 million sum (possibly including Arsenal and Spurs, though we know what Levy is like) I really think he stays this summer.

[Noodles34]

1 hour ago, Chez said:

its a good thing that teams come in for our players. When they don't, it means we have fuck all talent. Sell high, buy cheaper. A self sustaining club relies on deals like this. The question will be, can we bring in talent that is of an equal standard or maybe even better given time.

Think we’ve all seen the answer to that in recent times

[Chez]

fag packet maths...and I know it has little bearing on reality, but...

Grealish £100m

 

Buendia £38m

Bailey £30m

JWP £35m????

Can't see that being enough

[Chez]

Just now, Noodles34 said:

Think we’ve all seen the answer to that in recent times

No matter how good your recruitment is, you will still only get a percentage right. So the danger is always that you go backwards.

 

[SuperSAINT]

Just to add this to the valuation chat:

 

[ErwinK1961]

1 minute ago, SuperSAINT said:

Just to add this to the valuation chat:

 

Amazing what happens to valuations when clubs know you’ve got £100m ready to burn. 

They did well to get Buendia and Bailey sorted before Grealish goes.

[VectisSaint]

1 hour ago, Pilchards said:

Done some digging as I know someone with close links to JWP.

Its all agent talk and James is not looking to leave for Villa.

He will never rule out a move for a champions league club if Saints accepted a bid but 100% he won’t ask for a move as he’s happy.

He certainly was looking at leaving during the Mark Hughes days as he never fitted in his plans which frustrated him.

One of the very few sensible posts on here. 

[Jimmy_D]

3 hours ago, egg said:

Hard to disagree with much of that, but the suggestion that we'll get £50m for him is way off. He's a decent player, but he has very obvious limitations and is a million miles away from a £50m player. 

He’s worth more than 50M to Saints at the moment, with no club likely to value him as highly he’ll likely stay.

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, VectisSaint said:

One of the very few sensible posts on here. 

Sensible post because it’s what you want to hear. It’s equally sensible to say if the club got an acceptable bid and wee to offer him a 50% pay rise he’d probably go

[Saint86]

He isn't going unless we get a bid in the region of 45-50million and he decides he wants to go. 

Villa without grealish are worse than saints imo, certainly no better anyway. 

If you look at any of his interviews last season he was very happy at saints and was only thinking of his future with the club - he fits perfectly into the manager's plans here as well. 

Only way he goes this summer is for a top 5 club imo. I doubt very much that he's off to villa. 

Edited 1 August, 2021 by Saint86

[tajjuk]

3 hours ago, Saint86 said:

he fits perfectly into the manager's plans here as well. 

An important point I think, from what I can see he seemingly has a very good relationship with Ralph, a lot of trust on both sides I think.  He's playing probably his best football since Ralph arrived and is integral to the team, that is not necessarily going to be the case anywhere else. 

He also looked pretty happy in that golfing commentary vid that came out on the saints youtube.

I cannot see him agitating for a move, I am not even sure he would agree to the move to Villa anyway and I can't see us accepting anything less than silly money for him.

BUT the Mail says this morning Villa will go back in with another bid. 

 

[Chez]

44 minutes ago, tajjuk said:

 

BUT the Mail says this morning Villa will go back in with another bid. 

 

I'd be amazed if they didn't. You don't open with your `final' bid.  I guess it explains why we have apparently been enquiring/interested about Delaney.

[Dusic]

56 minutes ago, tajjuk said:

An important point I think, from what I can see he seemingly has a very good relationship with Ralph, a lot of trust on both sides I think.  He's playing probably his best football since Ralph arrived and is integral to the team, that is not necessarily going to be the case anywhere else. 

He also looked pretty happy in that golfing commentary vid that came out on the saints youtube.

I cannot see him agitating for a move, I am not even sure he would agree to the move to Villa anyway and I can't see us accepting anything less than silly money for him.

BUT the Mail says this morning Villa will go back in with another bid. 

 

Why no reference to the ultimate factor of anyone in a job: how much cash you get paid?

His agent has obviously told Villa its worth their time bidding, otherwise they wouldn't be wasting their time.

I'm sure he is happy at Saints but that doesn't mean he wouldn't move, we know that from the recent past.

 

[Sheaf Saint]

Good to read Pilchards' post saying he's not looking to leave. To my mind that means it would actually take a huge offer (£50m +) for it to happen.

If he were to go, I actually think we already have a replacement in Diallo. He was thrown in the deep end last season, played half a season covering Romeu's injury when he was a) not suited to that role and b) not really ready to be a starter in a PL side in poor form. But from what I've seen of him, I think he could fill the JWP role very well (apart from the dead ball stuff, of course). Him and Romeu as first choice in CM, with £50m in the bank to spend in other areas.. would that be so bad?

[macca155]

I suspect this is less about JWP asking for a move, than the club realising top dollar for an asset.

Villa aren't a major step up for JWP at the moment. That might change if they continue progressing. He may want to hold out for a higher profile club.

Bottom line is Saints are very financially challenged and need the cash. Not desperate, but no way will they resist a £35 million+ bid.

No one likes it, but that's where we are.

Personally I would fight to keep JWP but resolve to sell Ings and Vestergaard. Both have question marks over fitness  and consistency respectively. Plus they have cover.

If Saints can raise £50 million from those two sales then the pressure will be off for a while.

Bunker down for long hard season, and just hope the club is sold to an owner who has the funds to take things forward.

[tajjuk]

1 hour ago, Dusic said:

Why no reference to the ultimate factor of anyone in a job: how much cash you get paid?

His agent has obviously told Villa its worth their time bidding, otherwise they wouldn't be wasting their time.

I'm sure he is happy at Saints but that doesn't mean he wouldn't move, we know that from the recent past.

 

Villa don't pay much more for us anyway, Grealish is their top earner and IIRC he was on like £100k a week, which is likely to be around the amount we have offered Ings, and JWP is going to be one of our other highest earners most likely. Hardly like they are going to double his wages. 

Also IMO no money is not the ultimate factor in job choice. I could get more money doing my job elsewhere but would increase my workload, have less flexible working and less benefits. 

Le Tiss was offered more money and decided he was better off at Saints because the team was basically built around him. 

Footballers are also influenced by trophies, game time, champions league football, location, family reasons.  I would imagine a lot of those factors don't tick a lot of boxes for Villa in their favour, they are not a champions league club and likely won't be one for a long while, they haven't won anything for ages, is he going to be as integral to their game and have as good a relationship with the manager as he does here? the area is hardly of great appeal and he'd be moving away from his family as well. 

All for what? maybe £20k a week more? money isn't everything, even in modern football. 

Plus agents angling for more money, what a shock, doesn't mean the player wants it. 

 

[Turkish]

26 minutes ago, tajjuk said:

Villa don't pay much more for us anyway, Grealish is their top earner and IIRC he was on like £100k a week, which is likely to be around the amount we have offered Ings, and JWP is going to be one of our other highest earners most likely. Hardly like they are going to double his wages. 

Also IMO no money is not the ultimate factor in job choice. I could get more money doing my job elsewhere but would increase my workload, have less flexible working and less benefits. 

Le Tiss was offered more money and decided he was better off at Saints because the team was basically built around him. 

Footballers are also influenced by trophies, game time, champions league football, location, family reasons.  I would imagine a lot of those factors don't tick a lot of boxes for Villa in their favour, they are not a champions league club and likely won't be one for a long while, they haven't won anything for ages, is he going to be as integral to their game and have as good a relationship with the manager as he does here? the area is hardly of great appeal and he'd be moving away from his family as well. 

All for what? maybe £20k a week more? money isn't everything, even in modern football. 

Plus agents angling for more money, what a shock, doesn't mean the player wants it. 

 

So you’ve managed to quote one example of a player who didn’t chase money and dismissed his chances of winning anything at villa with their European cup win, 7 league titles, 7 fa cups, 5 league cups. Not won anything in ages, well yes but that was still 15 years more recently than we won anything. I’m convinced. 🤣
 

Let’s face it mate if he wants trophies he ain’t going to get them at saints. And “maybe an extra £20k a week” is 4 million sheets over a 4 year contract. Hardly The same as turning down 5 grand a year more so you can drop your kids off as school twice a week.

Edited 1 August, 2021 by Turkish

[bangkoksaint]

Money may not be as tight but this has similarities potentially to Andrew Surman’s transfer

[Dusic]

£20k a week extra is over £5m across the duration of a 5yr contract. Thats a lot to pass off as not being a factor!

I highly doubt JWP's agent is working behind his back to try and get a move that his client has zero interest in.

We will see what happens, but whilst he isnt playing friendlies and Villa keep bidding it doesn't scream to me that JWP isn't interested.

[em00jie]

13 hours ago, Pilchards said:

Done some digging as I know someone with close links to JWP.

Its all agent talk and James is not looking to leave for Villa.

He will never rule out a move for a champions league club if Saints accepted a bid but 100% he won’t ask for a move as he’s happy.

He certainly was looking at leaving during the Mark Hughes days as he never fitted in his plans which frustrated him.

I heard the same. Family links to JWP’s old man, he said he expected JWP (his son) to be a saints player next season.

[Harry_SFC]

2 minutes ago, em00jie said:

I heard the same. Family links to JWP’s old man, he said he expected JWP (his son) to be a saints player next season.

He must've changed his mind quite recently then...