James Ward-Prowse

[JustinSFC]

Not a chance Prowse leaves here, a club he captains for villa.

Top 6 yeah absolutely and he should.

Villa aren't getting in the Top 6 any time soon and he'll know that full well and he doesn't strike me as someone who would move purely and solely for money which would be the only thing left.

P.S unless it was double what we're paying which I would doubt.

Edited 22 June, 2021 by JustinSFC

[JustinSFC]

43 minutes ago, ErwinK1961 said:

If they bid and we rejected it, do you think he'd try and force it through/ hand in a transfer request to get his dream move?

"dream move" 

Aston Villa.

Really?

[ErwinK1961]

3 minutes ago, JustinSFC said:

"dream move" 

Aston Villa.

Really?

Sarcasm.

[JustinSFC]

2 minutes ago, ErwinK1961 said:

Sarcasm.

Ah 

[ErwinK1961]

36 minutes ago, Cartman said:

Yes, the same Everton that thought it was a good idea to make an average manager like Koeman one of the highest paid in the world only to sack him little more than a year later, then after having Allardyce until the end of the season paid Watford a huge amount in compensation to hire Marco Silva, only to go and sack him after 18 months when they realized he was shite. That is exactly the Everton I'm talking about, the midtable club who are without a manager again and don't seem to have much of an idea on who they should hire next.

Easy to get a manager when you pay him far more than he is worth.

Wasn't Ronald also happy to stay for his final year, but Les in his infinite wisdom wanted him out because he wouldn't sign a new deal? Then Everton came knocking and both parties were very happy with the financials being offered (compo for us, wages for RK).

[Miltonaggro]

I bet Matty Targett has been tapping him up with tales of the high life Edgbaston and evening strolls down the Bourneville Boulevard...

[Pilchards]

I know 3 seasons ago he wanted a move as he was not getting a regular game.

The situation is different now and I reckon it’s going to be a couple of things.

(1) We will let you go at the end of next season like we did with Hojberg. Give us time for a replacement.

(2) We can’t turn down that price and you can have talks if you want too as I know you are not happy with us struggling in the league.

 

[ErwinK1961]

31 minutes ago, SKD said:

What relevance does that have? 

You said our players were going to get cherry picked by the teams around us that show a bit more ambition (any by ambition, we mean throw endless amounts of cash around) - but we haven't sold a first teamer with more than a year on their contract to anyone outside the top 4. 

So JWP, with 4 years left on his contract, is surely going to have to kick up a stink to get his move to Villa?

 

 

 

[Turkish]

2 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

Because uprooting your young family is a big thing for what is only a slightly upwards move. It won't make a big difference to his career like a move to the big 6 would.

He has already finished 6th, 8th, 7th and 8th in the Premier League with Saints. Villa at best will only match that. He may as well wait and see if a really big team ever want him.

LOL. 

[OldNick]

We may think Villa are at a similar level than us but they are a much bigger club steeped in real history Champions of Europe.

To us pulling on a Saints shirt couldnt become a chore but JWP may have ambition and Villa have a vibrant team onthe up. Who of us really believe we are in that bracket at present???

JWP probably feels that the Euro snub is a nail in his coffin for England but may feel going to Villa might give him a bit more credence.

£30+ million will be tempting to the club and whilst they will say hes not for sale Im sure they will do if the money is right and gives us the chance to spend on a few other players tofreshenus up

 

[Saint_clark]

£30million would not improve us, he would have to go for £50million and noone will pay that.

[Matthew Le God]

4 minutes ago, OldNick said:

We may think Villa are at a similar level than us but they are a much bigger club steeped in real history Champions of Europe.

£30+ million will be tempting to the club and whilst they will say hes not for sale Im sure they will do if the money is right and gives us the chance to spend on a few other players tofreshenus up

 

What relevance does Villa being European Champions 39 years ago have to football in 2021?

£30m is the price of a player after a good Championship season... not a 26 year old Premier League captain with 4 years left on his contract. 

[SKD]

1 hour ago, ErwinK1961 said:

You said our players were going to get cherry picked by the teams around us that show a bit more ambition (any by ambition, we mean throw endless amounts of cash around) - but we haven't sold a first teamer with more than a year on their contract to anyone outside the top 4. 

So JWP, with 4 years left on his contract, is surely going to have to kick up a stink to get his move to Villa?

 

 

 

So if Villa offered, say, £50m (that simply won’t happen because he’s not worth that) you don’t think we’d sell? Don’t be stupid. 

We’ll have a value for ever single player in our squad, it doesn’t matter if it’s Man United or Newcastle United. Whoever meets our valuation we’d sell to. 

So no, he won’t have to kick up a stink. 

[egg]

I don't think anyone who's saying we wouldn't take £30m appreciates our financial position. We've always sold, it's our business model, and there's a greater need now more than for a long time. 

[Matthew Le God]

3 minutes ago, egg said:

I don't think anyone who's saying we wouldn't take £30m appreciates our financial position. We've always sold, it's our business model, and there's a greater need now more than for a long time. 

What about the club's financial position means we need to sell players massively under their value? The repayments for the Covid loan the club took out aren't due to start for years from now. What evidence is there that the club can only afford the loan through player sales rather than other sources of income?

[egg]

Just now, Matthew Le God said:

What about the club's financial position means we need to sell players massively under their value? The repayments for the Covid loan the club took out aren't due to start for years from now. What evidence is there that the club can only afford the loan through player sales rather than other sources of income?

I'm not talking about the loan. 

We need to sell to buy, you're bright enough to understand that. We have to sell to the highest bidder. The highest bid will bid based on market forces, not the opinion of someone on a forum. 

[Matthew Le God]

7 minutes ago, egg said:

I'm not talking about the loan. 

We need to sell to buy, you're bright enough to understand that. We have to sell to the highest bidder. The highest bid will bid based on market forces, not the opinion of someone on a forum. 

The evidence shows otherwise. We spent more than we brought in last summer (£37m+ spent), despite being 6 months into a pandemic and having Gao as an owner.

It also doesn't mean you sell you're captain when he has 4 years left on his contract. Situation was different for Hojbjerg with only a year left and his value dropped due to that.

Edited 22 June, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[SKD]

5 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

What about the club's financial position means we need to sell players massively under their value? The repayments for the Covid loan the club took out aren't due to start for years from now. What evidence is there that the club can only afford the loan through player sales rather than other sources of income?

I’m staggered people think 30m is ‘massively’ under his value. 

Buendia was only 33m and he’s a much better player in a traditionally more expensive position (attackers always seem to have more value as they’re match winners). 

[Matthew Le God]

Just now, SKD said:

I’m staggered people think 30m is ‘massively’ under his value. 

Buendia was only 33m and he’s a much better player in a traditionally more expensive position (attackers always seem to have more value as they’re match winners). 

£30m for a 26 year old, Premier League captain on the fringes of the England squad and has 269 top flight games under his belt and 4 years left on his contract is very cheap! Championship players are being sold for £30m+, a £30m bid shouldn't be remotely tempting for Saints.

[ErwinK1961]

23 minutes ago, SKD said:

So if Villa offered, say, £50m (that simply won’t happen because he’s not worth that) you don’t think we’d sell? Don’t be stupid. 

We’ll have a value for ever single player in our squad, it doesn’t matter if it’s Man United or Newcastle United. Whoever meets our valuation we’d sell to. 

So no, he won’t have to kick up a stink. 

So he’ll get his move when Villa offer an amount of money they’re never going to offer? Ok then.

[SKD]

1 minute ago, Matthew Le God said:

£30m for a 26 year old, Premier League captain on the fringes of the England squad and has 269 top flight games under his belt and 4 years left on his contract is very cheap! Championship players are being sold for £30m+, a £30m bid shouldn't be remotely tempting for Saints.

A striker scoring 20+ goals in the championship isn’t remotely similar to a CM though, captain or not (not sure that account for much tbh). As I said, attackers always traditionally are valued at more than defensive players. 
 

I do agree we shouldn’t be selling for 30m but I wouldn’t say massively below. £35-£40 and I think we’d listen. 

[egg]

11 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

The evidence shows otherwise. We spent more than we brought in last summer (£37m+ spent), despite being 6 months into a pandemic and having Gao as an owner.

It also doesn't mean you sell you're captain when he has 4 years left on his contract. Situation was different for Hojbjerg with only a year left and his value dropped due to that.

You've seen to different accounts to me mate. We cannot buy without selling. That's the reality. It shouldn't be, but it is.

As for JWP, let's see what happens. I don't want him to leave, but if he's as good or valuable as you believe him to be, buyers will be beating the door down. If he wants to go, he'll go, and the price will be the best we are offered.

[SKD]

2 minutes ago, ErwinK1961 said:

So he’ll get his move when Villa offer an amount of money they’re never going to offer? Ok then.

What are you even mumbling on about you weirdo. 

Him wanting (or at least being interested in talking to) to join villa and actually joining villa are 2 completely different things.

Will he join them? Probably not. He’s simply not worth what we’ll likely value him at. Would their ‘ambition’ excite him more than stagnating here? I’d expect it absolutely would. 

The idea that we wouldn’t sell to them as they’re some kind of ‘rival’ is nonsense. We’ll sell to anyone if the price is right. 

[TWar]

18 minutes ago, SKD said:

Buendia was only 33m and he’s a much better player

Completely disagree with this. JWP is a quality player, worth atleast £40m, we will ask for £50m atleast because of how important he is to our side. His goal contributions alone are worth that and he is a holding midfielder.

He has more goal involvements than Aubameyang, Raphinha, Mount, Zaha, Maddison and one less than Jack Grealish last season as well as having excellent defensive and ball progression stats. He also is our captain, is English, played every minute of the last two seasons, is on a four year deal, and is still only 26, and people are saying he should go for less than a championship attacking mid.

Edited 22 June, 2021 by TWar

[SKD]

5 minutes ago, TWar said:

Completely disagree with this. JWP is a quality player, worth atleast £40m, we will ask for £50m atleast because of how important he is to our side. His goal contributions alone are worth that and he is a holding midfielder.

He has more goal involvements than Aubameyang, Raphinha, Mount, Zaha, Maddison and one less than Jack Grealish last season as well as having excellent defensive and ball progression stats. He also is our captain, is English, played every minute of the last two seasons, is on a four year deal, and is still only 26, and people are saying he should go for less than a championship attacking mid.

Are you suggesting he is better than all of these? If not, absolutely pointless stat (again). Especially when you consider, as you say, he didn’t miss a minute and takes every single set piece.

But if you read my posts, I said c.£40m is what he’s realistically valued at. Bunedia comparison (much better player) was just to point out £30m wasn’t ‘massively’ below his value. 

Edited 22 June, 2021 by SKD

[Matthew Le God]

7 minutes ago, egg said:

You've seen to different accounts to me mate. We cannot buy without selling. That's the reality. It shouldn't be, but it is.

I've already pointed out to you that last summer, 6 months into a pandemic we spent more on players than we sold. So what exactly in the accounts are you basing your claim?

[TWar]

8 minutes ago, SKD said:

Are you suggesting he is better than all of these? If not, absolutely pointless stat (again). Especially when you consider, as you say, he didn’t miss a minute and takes every single set piece.

I'm suggesting his value is significantly higher than £30m when he provides 15 goal contributions for the side in a season. Then showing you similar goal contributions from other players to illustrate how much that is worth. A number of the people I listed are on set pieces too (Grealish, Mount, Raphinha, Maddison) so it's not like JWP has some sort of unfair advantage.

Also, not being funny, but if "goals and assists" are a pointless stat to you then what do you even want? Goals win games, there is literally no more important individual thing for a player to do. Do you just dislike the concept of using numbers? I get you not liking xG or whatever as it is a little confusing, but this is just listing number of goals and assists?

Edited 22 June, 2021 by TWar

[Matthew Le God]

11 minutes ago, SKD said:

Are you suggesting he is better than all of these? If not, absolutely pointless stat (again). Especially when you consider, as you say, he didn’t miss a minute and takes every single set piece.

Why are you seemingly using that as a negative? It is to his credit he is superb at them, being good at them boosts his value. A goal or an assist from a set piece can win a game just like one from open play can.

Edited 22 June, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[SKD]

2 minutes ago, TWar said:

I'm suggesting his value is significantly higher than £30m when he provides 15 goal contributions for the side in a season. Then showing you similar goal contributions from other players to illustrate how much that is worth. A number of the people I listed are on set pieces too (Grealish, Mount, Raphinha, Maddison) so it's not like JWP has some sort of unfair advantage.

Also, not being funny, but if "goals and assists" are a pointless stat to you then what do you even want? Goals win games, there is literally no more important individual thing for a player to do.

Hasn’t helped us much in 2021 has it…

JWP is fantastic at free kicks and whips in a great corner with a giant at CB (we should actually score from more corners), won’t take that away from him. Seriously up there with Beckham in that respect. Other than that, he’s very average. 
 

Take out goals / assists from set pieces then come back with your goal involvement stat. 

[SKD]

1 minute ago, Matthew Le God said:

Why are you seemingly using that as a negative or mitigating factor? It is to his credit he is superb at them, being good at them boosts his value. A goal or an assist from a set piece can win a game just like one from open play can.

Being good at free kicks doesn’t make you a £50m player though in my book. 
 

It’s an argument which will never have an outcome anyway. His value is only really relative to the club. As I’ve said many times, he won’t move because he’s not worth what the club will value him at. 

[Matthew Le God]

3 minutes ago, SKD said:

Take out goals / assists from set pieces then come back with your goal involvement stat. 

Why would you ignore them? Do those set piece goals and assists not count as goals and assists? He is exceptional at them and that is a skill that has value.

Edited 22 June, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[SKD]

Just now, Matthew Le God said:

Why would you ignore them? Do those goals and assists not count as goals and assists?

Because he is significantly better than those listed at them, so to use that as some kind of comparison to almost suggests he’s a better player than them is daft. In open play he creates nothing. 

[TWar]

3 minutes ago, SKD said:

Hasn’t helped us much in 2021 has it…

JWP is fantastic at free kicks and whips in a great corner with a giant at CB (we should actually score from more corners), won’t take that away from him. Seriously up there with Beckham in that respect. Other than that, he’s very average. 
 

Take out goals / assists from set pieces then come back with your goal involvement stat. 

He can't be blamed alone for 2021 form, that's not fair at all.

And why would you take out set pieces, do they not count to winning. They are worth exactly the same as any other goal, don't be silly, see where we are without his 15 goals and us getting the normal number of goals from set pieces rather than second best in the league, probably in a relegation scrap. 

[TWar]

3 minutes ago, SKD said:

Because he is significantly better than those listed at them, so to use that as some kind of comparison to almost suggests he’s a better player than them is daft. In open play he creates nothing. 

Of course in open play he creates less, he's a holding mid. He has great defensive numbers in open play and his elite set piece ability is worth a similar value to having a good attacking mid. What more do you want?

Also imagine using someone's skill at a key important part of the game, that yields 15 goals, as an argument for their quality and value, how daft, someone tell him setpiece goals don't count quick. 

Edited 22 June, 2021 by TWar

[Matthew Le God]

2 minutes ago, SKD said:

Because he is significantly better than those listed at them, so to use that as some kind of comparison to almost suggests he’s a better player than them is daft. In open play he creates nothing. 

Why do you appear to value open play involvements higher than set piece goal involvements? A goal is a goal regardless of it being in open play or from a set piece.

[SKD]

4 minutes ago, TWar said:

Of course in open play he creates less, he's a holding mid. He has great defensive numbers in open play and his elite set piece ability is worth a similar value to having a good attacking mid. What more do you want?

You to actually watch the game and stop banging on about stats to start with. 
 

It wasn’t long ago you were claiming he’s a better defensive midfielder than Phillips, which is of course and has since been shown to be absolute fucking nonsense. 

Edited 22 June, 2021 by SKD

[Bob76]

19 minutes ago, SKD said:

Are you suggesting he is better than all of these? If not, absolutely pointless stat (again). Especially when you consider, as you say, he didn’t miss a minute and takes every single set piece.

But if you read my posts, I said c.£40m is what he’s realistically valued at. Bunedia comparison (much better player) was just to point out £30m wasn’t ‘massively’ below his value. 

On what basis is Bunedia a better player, yet to prove it on a regular basis at a high level?

[egg]

18 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

I've already pointed out to you that last summer, 6 months into a pandemic we spent more on players than we sold. So what exactly in the accounts are you basing your claim?

Read all of them mate, not just the bits you like. Look at all outgoings against all non loaned income. Then look at the pattern since promotion. You'll see a simple trend. Our business model means that they are a selling club.

[SKD]

1 minute ago, Matthew Le God said:

Why do you appear to value open play involvements higher than set piece goal involvements? A goal is a goal regardless of it being in open play or from a set piece.

Is a a striker who scores 20 penalties worth the same as a striker who score 20 goals in open play? 
 

A free kick within 25 yards is as good as a penalty to JWP. He’s fantastic at them, that’s why his value is even anywhere near 30-40m. Other than that, he’s bang average. 

[egg]

2 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Why do you appear to value open play involvements higher than set piece goal involvements? A goal is a goal regardless of it being in open play or from a set piece.

You're hilarious Matty. A footy match in the real world is played over 90mins, not 90 secs of free kicks. Oh man. 

[SKD]

1 minute ago, Bob76 said:

On what basis is Bunedia a better player, yet to prove it on a regular basis at a high level?

Save this post for the end of the season. He’s a ‘baller’, trust me. 

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, egg said:

You're hilarious Matty. A footy match in the real world is played over 90mins, not 90 secs of free kicks. Oh man. 

#proffesionalpaidscout🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[TWar]

7 minutes ago, SKD said:

You to actually watch the game and stop banging on about stats to start with. 
 

It wasn’t long ago you were claiming he’s a better defensive midfielder than Phillips, which is of course and has been been shown to be absolute fucking nonsense. 

I do watch the game, you clearly don't, or you close your eyes when he leads to 15 goals last season. 

And he is still better than Phillips, one good game and one shit game in the euros doesn't change that. 

I think you think people can either look at stats or watch games. Therefore, because you don't understand stats it only follows that the other side don't watch games. Unfortunately that's not really the case. 

Edited 22 June, 2021 by TWar

[Bob76]

1 minute ago, SKD said:

Save this post for the end of the season. He’s a ‘baller’, trust me. 

Oh so it's just your opinion at the moment, thanks, my opinion is that JWP is underrated by a lot of saints fans and is a very good player that offers or team as lot thus his value is higher as we would miss him a lot.

[SKD]

1 minute ago, TWar said:

I do watch the game, you clearly don't, or you close your eyes when he leads to 15 goals a season. 

And he is still better than Phillips, one good game and one shit game in the euros doesn't change that. 

I think you think people can either look at stats or watch games. Therefore, because you don't understand stats it only follows that the other side don't watch games. Unfortunately that's not really the case. 

I can reassure you that absolutely no one other than deluded Saints fans will have this opinion. No one at all. 

I dread to think what you’d value someone like Armstrong at. 

[TWar]

Just now, SKD said:

I can reassure you that absolutely no one other than deluded Saints fans will have this opinion. No one at all. 

I dread to think what you’d value someone like Armstrong at. 

Well, that's not true at all, if you look at almost any pundit they rate JWP way over £30m. Either way mate, keep chatting nonsense with nothing to back it up. 

[SKD]

3 minutes ago, TWar said:

Well, that's not true at all, if you look at almost any pundit they rate JWP way over £30m. Either way mate, keep chatting nonsense with nothing to back it up. 

What’s that got to do with JWP being better than Phillips? 
 

[SKD]

The trouble with rimming stats is that you need to add context to paint a picture. 

Goal contribution is boosted by taking every single set piece, defensive stats (tackles etc.) are boosted by playing a significant amount of more minutes than others. 

TWar put JWP in the bracket of some very, very good attacking midfielders (Grealish, Mount, Raphinha, Maddison), if he’s trying to say he’s a better player or attacking midfielder than those, because his goal contribution stats are better, then clearly that shows they’re absolute nonsense. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

Is there a stat for ducking out of the way of a shot instead of taking it in the mush?
 

Shanks went to watch a highly promising player once and after 10mins said to the scout who recommended him “that’s it, I’ve seen enough”. Why was that, because the bloke rolled around like a fairy when tackled. No stat for that. 

[TWar]

9 minutes ago, SKD said:

The trouble with rimming stats is that you need to add context to paint a picture. 

Goal contribution is boosted by taking every single set piece, defensive stats (tackles etc.) are boosted by playing a significant amount of more minutes than others. 

TWar put JWP in the bracket of some very, very good attacking midfielders (Grealish, Mount, Raphinha, Maddison), if he’s trying to say he’s a better player or attacking midfielder than those, because his goal contribution stats are better, then clearly that shows they’re absolute nonsense. 

Guess the set piece goals don't matter then...