James Ward-Prowse

[Badger]

  On 05/10/2021 at 18:20, LiberalCommunist said:

This isn't the worst suspension scenario for us.  With Armstrong on the way back, I'm quite looking forward to a different looking midfield. 

What we don't want to do in the next few games is lose a CB to a red. Then we are in trouble. 

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Dave Merrington's cover on the forum revealed....

[Danbert]

  On 05/10/2021 at 14:45, Saint86 said:

To be honest this works out quite well. He gets a nice bit of motivation out of the squad and may get a goal etc. And it gives him a couple of matches to make up for the 3 he'll miss. Then get gets a bit of a break for a few games.

Also means Diallo and Armstrong should get a chance to get some minutes under their belts without having to all be rotated around the permanent JWP.

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Is he likely to actually play, do you think?

[Mosin]

  On 05/10/2021 at 18:15, SaintSteve said:

Phillips doesn’t play your so-called No 8 role. He’s just a far better footballer than Ward-Prowse will ever be. You should try going to our matches, he’s been poor this season which tells me you spend too much time on meaningless stats than actually watching a player to decide whether he’s performing.

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IF you asked Phillips to try keep JWP out of a game, he would struggle, if you asked JWP to keep Phillips out of the game, Phillips gets pulled off at half time... tells me all i need to know.

[egg]

I'm staggered that anyone seriously thinks JWP is a better player than Phillips. Sure, his dead balls are on another level, but Phillips is a better footballer. 

That said, I'm delighted JWP has been called up. 

[Mosin]

  On 05/10/2021 at 20:11, egg said:

I'm staggered that anyone seriously thinks JWP is a better player than Phillips. Sure, his dead balls are on another level, but Phillips is a better footballer. 

That said, I'm delighted JWP has been called up. 

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in what way is phillips better? im keen to see your evidence, ive got 2-0 loss to leeds when one was pulled off at half time cause JWP was in his face all half showing him up.... giving him no space and time to do any thing..... and you have?

[egg]

  On 05/10/2021 at 20:36, Mosin said:

in what way is phillips better? im keen to see your evidence, ive got 2-0 loss to leeds when one was pulled off at half time cause JWP was in his face all half showing him up.... giving him no space and time to do any thing..... and you have?

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Try watching them both play

Phillips has a better range of passing in open play, better movement, quicker speed of releasing the ball, better tackling, better aerial ability, he's faster, he reads the game better. Pretty much everything is better bar his dead ball delivery. 

I like JWP, but let's not kid ourselves he's the better player of the two, and making an assessment on one game is laughable. 

[Dman]

  On 05/10/2021 at 20:36, Mosin said:

in what way is phillips better? im keen to see your evidence, ive got 2-0 loss to leeds when one was pulled off at half time cause JWP was in his face all half showing him up.... giving him no space and time to do any thing..... and you have?

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In pretty much every single way, other than free kicks and corners. Prowse, is very average and will be nowhere near the squad when we’re needing it to be at its strongest. Rice, Bellingham, Henderson

and Phillips all ahead of him in the pecking order and rightly so. 

Edited 5 October, 2021 by Dman

[Dman]

  On 05/10/2021 at 20:45, egg said:

Try watching them both play

Phillips has a better range of passing in open play, better movement, quicker speed of releasing the ball, better tackling, better aerial ability, he's faster, he reads the game better. Pretty much everything is better bar his dead ball delivery. 

I like JWP, but let's not kid ourselves he's the better player of the two, and making an assessment on one game is laughable. 

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Agree. It was an already weak argument, but it became a lot weaker after how Phillips performed at the Euros.  

[saintquin]

  On 05/10/2021 at 20:49, Dman said:

Agree. It was an already weak argument, but it became a lot weaker after how Phillips performed at the Euros.  

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I can only remember him having one good game and, that was the one where almost no one else played very well. Did hardly a thing in the final.

[SaintSteve]

  On 05/10/2021 at 20:45, egg said:

Try watching them both play

Phillips has a better range of passing in open play, better movement, quicker speed of releasing the ball, better tackling, better aerial ability, he's faster, he reads the game better. Pretty much everything is better bar his dead ball delivery. 

I like JWP, but let's not kid ourselves he's the better player of the two, and making an assessment on one game is laughable. 

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About sums it up.. 

[Mosin]

  On 05/10/2021 at 20:45, egg said:

Try watching them both play

Phillips has a better range of passing in open play, better movement, quicker speed of releasing the ball, better tackling, better aerial ability, he's faster, he reads the game better. Pretty much everything is better bar his dead ball delivery. 

I like JWP, but let's not kid ourselves he's the better player of the two, and making an assessment on one game is laughable. 

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show me?
I see just your opinion, i cant find a single website that backs you up, so as i asked, show me....
I pointed a game out, a game they both played in, one played in a 5 man midfield with 2 other cms, while one played next to Armstrong Walcot and Djen, JWP as said by the pundits at half time, was controlling the game.......................................... phillips touched the ball just 24 times in a 5 man midfield and was rightly taken off at half time and replaced and leeds ended up winning because he was dragged off.....

 

  On 05/10/2021 at 20:49, Dman said:

Agree. It was an already weak argument, but it became a lot weaker after how Phillips performed at the Euros.  

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Wrong, he had a couple of good games against weak oppo and went completely missing against the others, England was also the most dull team at the comp and finished the worst attacking side even though most of europes top attacking players are English......... Phillips didnt even finish one of the top 10 mids at the euros but got to the final......

[egg]

  On 05/10/2021 at 20:56, Mosin said:

show me?
I see just your opinion, i cant find a single website that backs you up, so as i asked, show me....
I pointed a game out, a game they both played in, one played in a 5 man midfield with 2 other cms, while one played next to Armstrong Walcot and Djen, JWP as said by the pundits at half time, was controlling the game.......................................... phillips touched the ball just 24 times in a 5 man midfield and was rightly taken off at half time and replaced and leeds ended up winning because he was dragged off.....

 

Wrong, he had a couple of good games against weak oppo and went completely missing against the others, England was also the most dull team at the comp and finished the worst attacking side even though most of europes top attacking players are English......... Phillips didnt even finish one of the top 10 mids at the euros but got to the final......

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Are you serious?! You're expecting me to find a website to say that Phillips is a better player than JWP?! Behave. 

You stattos who don't understand the game get on my tits. 

Phillips is the better player.

[Dman]

  On 05/10/2021 at 20:56, Mosin said:

show me?
I see just your opinion, i cant find a single website that backs you up, so as i asked, show me....
I pointed a game out, a game they both played in, one played in a 5 man midfield with 2 other cms, while one played next to Armstrong Walcot and Djen, JWP as said by the pundits at half time, was controlling the game.......................................... phillips touched the ball just 24 times in a 5 man midfield and was rightly taken off at half time and replaced and leeds ended up winning because he was dragged off.....

 

Wrong, he had a couple of good games against weak oppo and went completely missing against the others, England was also the most dull team at the comp and finished the worst attacking side even though most of europes top attacking players are English......... Phillips didnt even finish one of the top 10 mids at the euros but got to the final......

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Watch and understand the game, pal. The fact you’re judging your opinion based on 1 ‘bad’ game would suggest you haven’t a clue about football, to be honest. 

It’s obviously an opinion, but it’s one that would be backed up by almost every single person (other than the weird little freaks on here, who live with red and white glasses on) including the England manager it seems. 
 

Phillips is a defence minded midfielder. England’s defence was very good. Him and rice done their job. If you’re looking for flare in the middle, JWP would be even further down the pecking order. 

Edited 5 October, 2021 by Dman

[Turkish]

  On 05/10/2021 at 20:56, Mosin said:

show me?
I see just your opinion, i cant find a single website that backs you up, so as i asked, show me....
I pointed a game out, a game they both played in, one played in a 5 man midfield with 2 other cms, while one played next to Armstrong Walcot and Djen, JWP as said by the pundits at half time, was controlling the game.......................................... phillips touched the ball just 24 times in a 5 man midfield and was rightly taken off at half time and replaced and leeds ended up winning because he was dragged off.....

 

Wrong, he had a couple of good games against weak oppo and went completely missing against the others, England was also the most dull team at the comp and finished the worst attacking side even though most of europes top attacking players are English......... Phillips didnt even finish one of the top 10 mids at the euros but got to the final......

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Or maybe not

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/16019555/leeds-kalvin-phillips-england-player-year-rice-euros/

 

[S-Clarke]

It's pretty obvious Phillips is the better player, especially after his Euro's. I was a little sceptical, but the summer proved what a complete player Philips actually is and he's a level above JWP, certainly in a physical sense.

JWP is a different type of midfielder and can do a different job for England than he does for us. If we're all honest we'd have Philips in our midfield in a heartbeat.

Edited 5 October, 2021 by S-Clarke

[Turkish]

  On 05/10/2021 at 21:00, egg said:

Are you serious?! You're expecting me to find a website to say that Phillips is a better player than JWP?! Behave. 

You stattos who don't understand the game get on my tits. 

Phillips is the better player.

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I think you summed it up very well the other day they are the type who would read a Michel Roux recipe book and think they are a Michelin chef 

Edited 5 October, 2021 by Turkish

[revolution saint]

Yeah, I’d take Phillips over JWP but I’m worried that’s just my opinion. I tried to look for the website that tells me which players are definitively better than others, you know like FACT, but couldn’t find it. Anyone got a link?

[SFC Forever]

I have always thought that JWP was a reliable player for us but did not see him as an international and I still don't.

[austsaint]

  On 05/10/2021 at 14:00, TWar said:

Thoroughly deserved. Much better at that number 8 role than Phillips if we play a 3 man midfield

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You couldn't/shouldn't possibly select JWP for England based on his form this season.

[Whitey Grandad]

  On 05/10/2021 at 21:00, egg said:

Phillips is the better player.

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Not when he’s injured he isn’t.

[Charlie Wayman]

  On 05/10/2021 at 17:46, captainchris said:

In all honesty is JWP world class ? 

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This is probably his last chance with England and he needs to seize the moment. It's not at all easy to break into the squad at the moment, they have become a formidable team and certainly amongst the best in the world if not quite world beaters. He needs to show Southgate his very best attributes and try to make a compelling case for his inclusion in the final squad for next summer. If he misses out this time chances are his time has come and gone.

This must not be an unimaginative plodding performance punctuated by arm raising, silly fouls and wasted opportunities. He must be creative and fashion chances that help the likes of Grealish, Sterling & Kane do the business at the top end.

We should all wish him well. It's now or never James and your future as an international player rests entirely in your own hands and head. Remember you are not there for your so-called 'dead-ball skills'. Get out there and do us proud!

 

Edited 6 October, 2021 by Charlie Wayman

[TWar]

  On 05/10/2021 at 18:15, SaintSteve said:

Phillips doesn’t play your so-called No 8 role. He’s just a far better footballer than Ward-Prowse will ever be. You should try going to our matches, he’s been poor this season which tells me you spend too much time on meaningless stats than actually watching a player to decide whether he’s performing.

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For England he did play a no 8 role in a number of games, we played a midfield three with Rice deep and Mount/Phillips higher up. JWP is undoubtedly better at this. Also saying Phillips is a far better footballer than JWP will ever be is just flat out nonsense. JWP is easily as good as Phillips, you have no idea what you are on about. Finally, JWP has been fine this season, he is a holding mid we don't expect him to make a bunch of goals. Defensively we have kept out some good teams and limited their number of chances, holding mid is a big part of that. You don't need to understand stats to have seen that.

[TWar]

  On 05/10/2021 at 20:45, egg said:

Try watching them both play

Phillips has a better range of passing in open play, better movement, quicker speed of releasing the ball, better tackling, better aerial ability, he's faster, he reads the game better. Pretty much everything is better bar his dead ball delivery. 

I like JWP, but let's not kid ourselves he's the better player of the two, and making an assessment on one game is laughable. 

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There is no way in hell Phillips has a better range of passing, better movement, better reading of the game. He is slightly faster and maybe tackles better although gives away a tonne of fouls. Not convinced he is much better in the air either. Surprised people are so fond of Phillips. He is an OK player but nothing special, I'd have JWP every single time.

[TWar]

  On 05/10/2021 at 20:49, Dman said:

Agree. It was an already weak argument, but it became a lot weaker after how Phillips performed at the Euros.  

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He wasn't great in the euros. The commentators bummed him but he had basically no creativity and that really cost us. JWP would have been better.

[Lord Duckhunter]

I thought the Euros had sorted this ridiculous argument, and finally shut up the forum “experts” that bang on about Ward-Noble being better than what England had. Had Southgate left Philips out of this squad for him, 99.9% of supporters, plus all the media would think he’d gone nuts. It’s only a few freaks on here that think otherwise. As Arsene Wenger once said “everyone thinks they’ve got the prettiest wife”, well Prowse is a bit of a minger & Phillips far fitter. 

[TWar]

  On 06/10/2021 at 10:50, Lord Duckhunter said:

I thought the Euros had sorted this ridiculous argument, and finally shut up the forum “experts” that bang on about Ward-Noble being better than what England had. Had Southgate left Philips out of this squad for him, 99.9% of supporters, plus all the media would think he’d gone nuts. It’s only a few freaks on here that think otherwise. As Arsene Wenger once said “everyone thinks they’ve got the prettiest wife”, well Prowse is a bit of a minger & Phillips far fitter. 

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Ward-Noble? I honestly don't know how you can call yourself a saints fan and have such a wildly negative view of someone who is pretty objectively our best player and miles ahead of Mark Noble. Must be trolling surely.

[Verbal]

  On 06/10/2021 at 10:50, Lord Duckhunter said:

I thought the Euros had sorted this ridiculous argument, and finally shut up the forum “experts” that bang on about Ward-Noble being better than what England had. Had Southgate left Philips out of this squad for him, 99.9% of supporters, plus all the media would think he’d gone nuts. It’s only a few freaks on here that think otherwise. As Arsene Wenger once said “everyone thinks they’ve got the prettiest wife”, well Prowse is a bit of a minger & Phillips far fitter. 

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Calm down dear.  And how the hell did you get through that hissy fit without uttering the only rhyming slang word you've ever learned?

[TWar]

  On 05/10/2021 at 21:11, Turkish said:

I think you summed it up very well the other day they are the type who would read a Michel Roux recipe book and think they are a Michelin chef 

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The problem with this analogy is that reading recipe books doesn't make you a Michelin chef but Michelin chefs sure as hell read a lot of recipe books in their time. We aren't arguing that we are "michelin chefs" by reading the books, we are arguing the books help and that, regardless of the books, we know more than a person who hates the books as they showcase how dense they are and couldn't make a fried egg.

[Lord Duckhunter]

  On 06/10/2021 at 10:56, TWar said:

Ward-Noble? I honestly don't know how you can call yourself a saints fan and have such a wildly negative view of someone who is pretty objectively our best player and miles ahead of Mark Noble. Must be trolling surely.

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He’s our very own Mark Noble, good club man, solid pro, but not good enough for England. The fact there’s a debate whether he’s our best player, shows how fucking poor we are. He’s got to be the worst “best” player I’ve seen us field in the top flight, by a country mile (45 years and counting) 

Edited 6 October, 2021 by Lord Duckhunter

[TWar]

  On 06/10/2021 at 11:03, Lord Duckhunter said:

He’s our very own Mark Noble, good club man, solid pro, but not good enough for England. 

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He's significantly better than Noble at almost everything and is plenty good enough for England, you just don't like him because he ducked a ball once allegedly.

[revolution saint]

  On 06/10/2021 at 10:48, TWar said:

There is no way in hell Phillips has a better range of passing, better movement, better reading of the game. He is slightly faster and maybe tackles better although gives away a tonne of fouls. Not convinced he is much better in the air either. Surprised people are so fond of Phillips. He is an OK player but nothing special, I'd have JWP every single time.

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There’s no way in hell your opinion is better than mine. Find a website to prove it.  Seriously though this kind of reply gets my goat, it’s a subjective opinion. I disagree with you, so does the England manager and so do a fair amount of people on this thread. Doesn’t make us right or wrong, it’s just an opinion. 

[Turkish]

  On 06/10/2021 at 11:00, TWar said:

The problem with this analogy is that reading recipe books doesn't make you a Michelin chef but Michelin chefs sure as hell read a lot of recipe books in their time. We aren't arguing that we are "michelin chefs" by reading the books, we are arguing the books help and that, regardless of the books, we know more than a person who hates the books as they showcase how dense they are and couldn't make a fried egg.

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And a michelin chef has also spent quite a lot of time in the kitchen cooking themselves, not just reading books or playing computer games. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

  On 06/10/2021 at 11:06, TWar said:

He's significantly better than Noble at almost everything and is plenty good enough for England, you just don't like him because he ducked a ball once allegedly.

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The England manager doesn’t think he is, unless someone else is injured. 
 

Ive watched a lot more players than you, and he’s average. There’s nothing wrong with being average, a solid professional, but that’s all he is and all he’ll ever be. I guess I’ve got higher standards than you. 

[TWar]

  On 06/10/2021 at 11:14, Turkish said:

And a michelin chef has also spent quite a lot of time in the kitchen cooking themselves, not just reading books or playing computer games. 

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You are still the only person I have seen actively mention computer games on here. Also, you are doing that thing where you assume smart people can't play football again.

[Turkish]

  On 06/10/2021 at 11:22, TWar said:

You are still the only person I have seen actively mention computer games on here. Also, you are doing that thing where you assume smart people can't play football again.

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Not at all, i know plenty of young kids who are good at football, smart and play computer games. 

[TWar]

  On 06/10/2021 at 11:15, Lord Duckhunter said:

The England manager doesn’t think he is, unless someone else is injured. 
 

Ive watched a lot more players than you, and he’s average. There’s nothing wrong with being average, a solid professional, but that’s all he is and all he’ll ever be. I guess I’ve got higher standards than you. 

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Oh if Southgate says it it must be true. I remember him picking Lingard over Grealish last year...

You have no idea how many players I've watched, and frankly even if you have watching 8000 games vs 6000 or whatever doesn't make you more knowledgeable. Especially when one of the people watching watches more for manliness than actual football ability.

[TWar]

  On 06/10/2021 at 11:29, Turkish said:

Not at all, i know plenty of young kids who are good at football, smart and play computer games. 

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Then why do you assume those who discuss stats on here don't also play football to a decent level? Also I don't know where this computer games thing comes from, who mentioned computer games?

[Turkish]

  On 06/10/2021 at 11:32, TWar said:

Then why do you assume those who discuss stats on here don't also play football to a decent level? Also I don't know where this computer games thing comes from, who mentioned computer games?

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Because all the smart, good at football, compute gamers i know are under 14. Obviously there are probably exceptions but most people i know who are obsessed with stats and others things like fantasy football dont have a frigging clue what they're on about. This forum is conclusive evidence of that

[TWar]

  On 06/10/2021 at 11:42, Turkish said:

Because all the smart, good at football, compute gamers i know are under 14. Obviously there are probably exceptions but most people i know who are obsessed with stats and others things like fantasy football dont have a frigging clue what they're on about. This forum is conclusive evidence of that

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So you don't know anyone over the age of 14 who is both smart and good at football? Also, fantasy football isn't a computer game, you just predict how well players will do in real life and get points for it, was since the early 90s through newspapers. This might be where you are confused, you don't know what a computer game is.

Edited 6 October, 2021 by TWar

[Turkish]

  On 06/10/2021 at 11:43, TWar said:

So you don't know anyone over the age of 14 who is both smart and good at football? Also, fantasy football isn't a computer game, you just predict how well players will do in real life and get points for it. This might be where you are confused, you don't know what a computer game is.

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Obviously, ridiculous response. You're starting to come across as a MLGlite. What it was is yet another example of people without a clue about football thinking they're experts. Not helped by wallys who go on about how although Saints lost at the weekend at least they had Salah in their fantasy team for example. 

[TWar]

  On 06/10/2021 at 11:47, Turkish said:

Obviously, ridiculous response. You're starting to come across as a MLGlite. What it was is yet another example of people without a clue about football thinking they're experts. Not helped by wallys who go on about how although Saints lost at the weekend at least they had Salah in their fantasy team for example. 

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Is betting via an online betting company a "computer game"? You keep talking about computer games but you don't even know what they are. You conflate computer games with stats because they are two things you don't understand so you assume they are the same thing. They are not, one is noting real life events and recording them and the other is simulations. It's amazing you can access this forum with your level of tech literacy quite honestly.

[Turkish]

  On 06/10/2021 at 11:51, TWar said:

Is betting via an online betting company a "computer game"? You keep talking about computer games but you don't even know what they are. You conflate computer games with stats because they are two things you don't understand so you assume they are the same thing. They are not, one is noting real life events and recording them and the other is simulations. It's amazing you can access this forum with your level of tech literacy quite honestly.

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You keep telling yourself i dont know what a computer game is if it makes you feel better, i'll keep watching you prove that when it comes to actually understanding what is going on during a football match you have very little clue.

[TWar]

  On 06/10/2021 at 11:55, Turkish said:

You keep telling yourself i dont know what a computer game is if it makes you feel better, i'll keep watching you prove that when it comes to actually understanding what is going on during a football match you have very little clue.

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I don't need to tell myself that, it's patently obvious. I thought you were basing the "people who use stats are computer gamers" thing off some comment someone made at some point or some other poster but it has become clear you genuinely don't understand that stats are used outside of FIFA, FM, etc.

Honestly, if you think I have very little clue that is more of an endorsement than anything else, you strike me as the sort of person who might need a relative to work their DVD player. Bit dim, but a bit old to do anything about it.

[Saint_Jonny]

For what it's worth, TWar, I have found your input very informative of late. Don't let old man Turkish put you off contributing in future, please.

 

[TWar]

  On 06/10/2021 at 12:07, Saint_Jonny said:

For what it's worth, TWar, I have found your input very informative of late. Don't let old man Turkish put you off contributing in future, please.

 

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Thanks very much, I won't. The stuff I post has always had a few detractors, some to be fair to them are genuinely clever people with good reasons to dispute and are pretty polite and well meaning with how they put themselves across, some are not.

I am arguing back more than I used to but that's mainly as I am grumpier than I used to be. Due to personal situations (all happy!) sleep is a little more scarce!

[Saint_Jonny]

  On 06/10/2021 at 12:11, TWar said:

Thanks very much, I won't. The stuff I post has always had a few detractors, some to be fair to them are genuinely clever people with good reasons to dispute and are pretty polite and well meaning with how they put themselves across, some are not.

I am arguing back more than I used to but that's mainly as I am grumpier than I used to be. Due to personal situations (all happy!) sleep is a little more scarce!

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Ah you've had a baby then. Welcome to the club. Mine is 2 now and it does get easier. Well, the sleep part does. The grumpiness / stress, not so much, but there are plenty of good moments to come. If my little one is into football (i'm not going to force it on him) - not sure how I convince him to be a Saints fan; "Are they good Daddy?" 😫

[Turkish]

  On 06/10/2021 at 11:59, TWar said:

I don't need to tell myself that, it's patently obvious. I thought you were basing the "people who use stats are computer gamers" thing off some comment someone made at some point or some other poster but it has become clear you genuinely don't understand that stats are used outside of FIFA, FM, etc.

Honestly, if you think I have very little clue that is more of an endorsement than anything else, you strike me as the sort of person who might need a relative to work their DVD player. Bit dim, but a bit old to do anything about it.

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Amazing how a comment about computer games has got you all hot under the collar   

[Saint Troy]

  On 06/10/2021 at 12:29, Turkish said:

Amazing how a comment about computer games has got you all hot under the collar   

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Can we have a Turkish vs TWar predictions league please? All prem games scores/results each week. See who wins?

[Yorkshire Saint]

Another legendry and insightful thread.

Goodluck JWP and enjoy 

[TWar]

  On 06/10/2021 at 12:18, Saint_Jonny said:

Ah you've had a baby then. Welcome to the club. Mine is 2 now and it does get easier. Well, the sleep part does. The grumpiness / stress, not so much, but there are plenty of good moments to come. If my little one is into football (i'm not going to force it on him) - not sure how I convince him to be a Saints fan; "Are they good Daddy?" 😫

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Indeed indeed! I hope it does, I hope more sleep soon. She is our first so all very new! A little off topic, sorry mods!