Palace 1-0 Saints - Match Thread

[david in sweden]

Aside from the drabbings we got v. Spurs and Chelsea, our defence looks a little better than last season .... but with 5 defeats by

a one goal margin, all results that could have been reversed for the want of just one goal.  Whatever it was Ché Adams and Adam A.

did right at their previous clubs - just ain't working  for us.  Clearly the transition to the highest level is more akin to climbing a mountain

than making a step-up from a lower league, and the Board's failure to sign " the striker of their choice"  cannot be laid at Ralph's door, and

starting the season with the same " strike-force " has become obvious, and can be summed up in one old-fashioned expression.  S.N.A.F.U. 

 

In part the midfield is to blame, as we lack players with the creativity that was apparent when Dusan Tadic drifted around creating chances

out of nothing and he ranks alongside Mane and Pelle as those who sadly have become " irreplaceable ", and Ralph's perseverance with

his chosen formation does little to improve things with players being  moved around positionally from week to week with little success. 

I'm not against experiments, (quite the opposite ) but at present  it's clear ..that ain't working  either.

 

Most of our " new boys " (and I use the word advisedly) show some real talent, but clearly it will take time for them to establish themselves 

as they are forced to begin their careers at the highest level with little, or no experience of  " men's football "  at any level. 

Survival this season could be the watermark for a much-improved squad next season - but in which league? 

[Convict Colony]

9 minutes ago, david in sweden said:

Aside from the drabbings we got v. Spurs and Chelsea, our defence looks a little better than last season .... but with 5 defeats by

a one goal margin, all results that could have been reversed for the want of just one goal.  Whatever it was Ché Adams and Adam A.

did right at their previous clubs - just ain't working  for us.  Clearly the transition to the highest level is more akin to climbing a mountain

than making a step-up from a lower league, and the Board's failure to sign " the striker of their choice"  cannot be laid at Ralph's door, and

starting the season with the same " strike-force " has become obvious, and can be summed up in one old-fashioned expression.  S.N.A.F.U. 

 

In part the midfield is to blame, as we lack players with the creativity that was apparent when Dusan Tadic drifted around creating chances

out of nothing and he ranks alongside Mane and Pelle as those who sadly have become " irreplaceable ", and Ralph's perseverance with

his chosen formation does little to improve things with players being  moved around positionally from week to week with little success. 

I'm not against experiments, (quite the opposite ) but at present  it's clear ..that ain't working  either.

 

Most of our " new boys " (and I use the word advisedly) show some real talent, but clearly it will take time for them to establish themselves 

as they are forced to begin their careers at the highest level with little, or no experience of  " men's football "  at any level. 

Survival this season could be the watermark for a much-improved squad next season - but in which league? 

[Billy the Kidd]

34 minutes ago, david in sweden said:

Aside from the drabbings we got v. Spurs and Chelsea, our defence looks a little better than last season .... but with 5 defeats by

a one goal margin, all results that could have been reversed for the want of just one goal.  Whatever it was Ché Adams and Adam A.

did right at their previous clubs - just ain't working  for us.  Clearly the transition to the highest level is more akin to climbing a mountain

than making a step-up from a lower league, and the Board's failure to sign " the striker of their choice"  cannot be laid at Ralph's door, and

starting the season with the same " strike-force " has become obvious, and can be summed up in one old-fashioned expression.  S.N.A.F.U. 

 

In part the midfield is to blame, as we lack players with the creativity that was apparent when Dusan Tadic drifted around creating chances

out of nothing and he ranks alongside Mane and Pelle as those who sadly have become " irreplaceable ", and Ralph's perseverance with

his chosen formation does little to improve things with players being  moved around positionally from week to week with little success. 

I'm not against experiments, (quite the opposite ) but at present  it's clear ..that ain't working  either.

 

Most of our " new boys " (and I use the word advisedly) show some real talent, but clearly it will take time for them to establish themselves 

as they are forced to begin their careers at the highest level with little, or no experience of  " men's football "  at any level. 

Survival this season could be the watermark for a much-improved squad next season - but in which league? 

So, not totally disagreeing here, but you are aware Ralph signed both Che and AA.

Now im sure Lighthouse or someone will point out we didnt have much money, which is correct, but there are other players out there that could have produced more goals.

So, when we say it isnt Ralphs fault we didnt sign a striker, he did sign the two already here, so his purchases, you and others (including me) have alluded to, have been failures. Brought by Ralph.

Edited 30 October, 2022 by Billy the Kidd

[InvictaSaint]

1 hour ago, Wade Garrett said:

Not really.  He’s a massive Ralph apologist.  He’ll shout from the rooftops if we don’t lose.  After yesterday, he’ll just go back in his shell and by next weekend will have totally forgotten the game.

He posted after Spurs, Wolves, Villa and Everton defeats. He does so pretty much every game. But - weirdly - not yesterday. Makes me think either he knows the end is nigh for Ralph….or even he can’t excuse that shower of shite. 

[whelk]

JWP is starting to be a problem I think

[InvictaSaint]

1 minute ago, whelk said:

JWP is starting to be a problem I think

In what way? Genuine question. 

[whelk]

Just now, InvictaSaint said:

In what way? Genuine question. 

In a no ambition sideways, backwards sort of way. Corners are generally poor too. Dropped off hugely since Romeu gone although was also backend of last season

[Lighthouse]

10 minutes ago, Billy the Kidd said:

So, not totally disagreeing here, but you are aware Ralph signed both Che and AA.

Now im sure Lighthouse or someone will point out we didnt have much money, which is correct, but there are other players out there that could have produced more goals.

Which reliable premier league scorers, available for £15m, are you referring to, just out of interest?

[Harry_SFC]

4 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Which reliable premier league scorers, available for £15m, are you referring to, just out of interest?

Edouard.. the guy who won Palace the game yesterday and seems to be scoring goals?

Edited 30 October, 2022 by Harry_SFC

[InvictaSaint]

3 minutes ago, whelk said:

In a no ambition sideways, backwards sort of way. Corners are generally poor too. Dropped off hugely since Romeu gone although was also backend of last season

Agree. He’s neither fish nor foul at present. When AMN came on you could see him push higher and start influencing our forward play more. But with Diallo next to him he can’t risk that. He has to be on the cover all the time. But notwithstanding he hasn’t the pace or the physicality to be an influence in the centre without a Romeu type alongside him. 

[saintant]

8 hours ago, Kingsbridge Saint said:

Che Adams simply has to stop adding to his catalogue of missed opportunities every week or he's going to get Ralph sacked and us relegated. Got to start scoring a few more son. It's shit or bust time.

Those blaming Adams for most of our woes and dropped points and hoping a new striker will make everything right could be in for a rude awakening because whoever it is will miss chances. Every striker misses chances. Haaland, Kane, Ings, Toney all miss chances when they should score. Mitrovitch has scored goals for Fulham yet last night he couldn't hit a cow's ass with a banjo despite getting numerous chances. All these strikers will get far more chances over a season than Adams or any other player in our team so their misses are not polarised the way Che's are. We are such a desperate, poorly coached team with little creativity and our odd chances mainly fall to Adams so we are ultra critical every time he misses. So we expect him to score every single time he has a chance and I do agree he should get a few more goals. But we're in danger of putting the cart before the horse - no striker would score many goals for this team because we just don't create anything like enough chances. That is down to the tactical ineptitude of Ralph and it is his lack of moral fibre that allows him to throw Adams under the bus rather than admitting he himself is getting it very wrong. If people think a new striker is going to cure our woes they are looking in the wrong place and I believe they will be saying the same things but just about a different player.

[Saint Fan CaM]

Let’s be clear, the improvement in defence has come about because we’ve signed better players that have gelled better than our previous misfits.  This is not because Ralph has devised some tactical master class.

Remember the confusion, panic, poor decisions etc we saw with Bednarek and Co? Well we’re now seeing a similar shit-show in midfield and up front. Losing Romeu has effectively made JWP a worse player and we’re relying on a youngster to fill the gap, but it’s exposed how weak JWP is in reality. Going back 4-5+ years I remember thinking he was a luxury player - a lad who could take a mean free kick on goal, but offered little more at CM unless he had a great player next to him. If JWP is the best player in our midfield, then it’s clear there’s a big problem that’s not been addressed.

Up front we have two good Championship level strikers in Che and Armstrong who have just not adapted to the EPL and the tragedy is this has been evident for at least 2 seasons but not rectified. We signed youngsters that have not been good enough, Tella being an example (but doing well in a lower league).

in essence we’re doing what Lowe did several years ago…thought it was sustainable to progressively dilute squad quality over successive seasons with unproven youngsters, managed by struggling managers. We all know what happened there. Could these players do any better with a different manager? Possibly, it’s difficult to determine, but after such a long extended period of underperformance something needs to change and quick.

[wadesmith]

6 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

Edouard.. the guy who won Palace the game yesterday and seems to be scoring goals?

Edouard has scored a goal evert 4.44 games for Palace in his career , Che Adams every 4.69. Both have  scored 3 league goals this year.If you take all competitions Che has scored more than Edouard this season.

 

[Lighthouse]

7 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

Edouard.. the guy who won Palace the game yesterday and seems to be scoring goals?

Well, Adams scored 7 PL goals last season and has 3 so far this season, whereas Edouard had 6 last season and 3 this, but okay.

[Tanlee]

Good managers find good goalscorers (even with a budget) and good managers also find systems and players to assist them score goals, eg Pelle, Lambert and Tadic, Mane etc. We all know that if we find a 15 /20 goal a season striker we only get there services for a couple of seasons before they move on but that's what keeps us in the league and then we reset. The issue is I have zero faith Ralph and Co can find that player... And before anybody says what about Ings, he was always a good striker at a top club, just a gamble that paid off given his injury record and moved on as soon as he could to a another bang average side, says alot. 

[Harry_SFC]

1 minute ago, wadesmith said:

Edouard has scored a goal evert 4.44 games for Palace in his career , Che Adams every 4.69. Both have  scored 3 league goals this year.If you take all competitions Che has scored more than Edouard this season.

 

He is certainly a better finisher than Che, there is no doubt about that. He's also a better player than Adam Armstrong. 

[Chez]

5 minutes ago, saintant said:

Those blaming Adams for most of our woes and dropped points and hoping a new striker will make everything right could be in for a rude awakening because whoever it is will miss chances. Every striker misses chances. Haaland, Kane, Ings, Toney all miss chances when they should score. Mitrovitch has scored goals for Fulham yet last night he couldn't hit a cow's ass with a banjo despite getting numerous chances. All these strikers will get far more chances over a season than Adams or any other player in our team so their misses are not polarised the way Che's are. We are such a desperate, poorly coached team with little creativity and our odd chances mainly fall to Adams so we are ultra critical every time he misses. So we expect him to score every single time he has a chance and I do agree he should get a few more goals. But we're in danger of putting the cart before the horse - no striker would score many goals for this team because we just don't create anything like enough chances. That is down to the tactical ineptitude of Ralph and it is his lack of moral fibre that allows him to throw Adams under the bus rather than admitting he himself is getting it very wrong. If people think a new striker is going to cure our woes they are looking in the wrong place and I believe they will be saying the same things but just about a different player.

fair points, but Ings scored goals for us and we didn't create much more back then.

 

[Saint Fan CaM]

2 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Well, Adams scored 7 PL goals last season and has 3 so far this season, whereas Edouard had 6 last season and 3 this, but okay.

True. The difference between us and Palace? They’ve a better midfield (inc. Zaha) and are coached to move the ball faster in transition.

[saintant]

3 minutes ago, Chez said:

fair points, but Ings scored goals for us and we didn't create much more back then.

 

Agree Ings was very good for us but even he missed chances. I'm just trying to highlight the fact that a new striker probably won't cure all our woes unless he manages to convert nearly every chance he's presented with.

Edited 30 October, 2022 by saintant

[Chez]

Just now, Harry_SFC said:

He is certainly a better finisher than Che, there is no doubt about that. He's also a better player than Adam Armstrong. 

He scored 6 goals last year and 3 so far this (Che 7 and 3). Wonder if he would have had more or less opportunities to score if playing for us?

[Saint Fan CaM]

3 minutes ago, Chez said:

fair points, but Ings scored goals for us and we didn't create much more back then.

 

That’s because Ings actually moved into dangerous positions and created chances for himself.

[Chez]

Just now, saintant said:

Agree Ings was very good for us but even he missed chances. I'm just trying to highlight the fact that a new striker probably won't cure all our woes unless he manages o convert nearly every chance he's presented with.

true. Although a striker that could actually create his own chances would help.

[Chez]

1 minute ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

That’s because Ings actually moved into dangerous positions and created chances for himself.

He certainly did. Sadly we have yet to find his replacement. Armstrong just hasn't cut it.

I keep reading how shit JWP corners have become, but from what I can see they are just as good, if not better, but instead of having Ings coming to the near post, beating the first man and heading into the far corner - making them look like great corners, we have players like Armstrong that simply don't do anything. 

[Harry_SFC]

Adams has missed 7 big chances this season, the same amount as Haaland and Mitrovic and less than Jesus, Toney and Watkins for example. 

All of those players have had more chances than Adams. So saintant's point does hold some weight. Clearly his finishing is poor but we also need to create more overall. 

Brighton seem to be scoring goals from all over the pitch. If Adams doesn't score then the chances are we're not going to.

Edited 30 October, 2022 by Harry_SFC

[S-Clarke]

10 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

That’s because Ings actually moved into dangerous positions and created chances for himself.

That is the difference, same with Broja. Both Ings and Broja were capable of generating chances themselves either with quick feet, good movement, good skill, good power/pace etc. Sure they wouldn't score them all, but already we had more chances to score than we do today.

We have to rely on a very poor mix of 10's to put chances on a plate for Adams/Armstrong etc and the likelihood is that they'll still miss them. It really is a miserable place to be in. 

[Lighthouse]

Just looking at last years top scorers, the only players with double figures who would have been in our price range are:

• Jamie Vardy, signed for £2m in the Championship, ten years ago and struggled to start with even at that level.
• Teemu Pukki, Norwich picked him up on a free. Fair play but 10 and 11 goals in two campaigns is hardly astonishing.
• Emmanuel Dennis, scraped ten goals thanks to a patch of six in two months around Christmas. Has three goals in 2022.

So I'm afraid I'm still none the wiser, really.

[Turkish]

4 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Just looking at last years top scorers, the only players with double figures who would have been in our price range are:

• Jamie Vardy, signed for £2m in the Championship, ten years ago and struggled to start with even at that level.
• Teemu Pukki, Norwich picked him up on a free. Fair play but 10 and 11 goals in two campaigns is hardly astonishing.
• Emmanuel Dennis, scraped ten goals thanks to a patch of six in two months around Christmas. Has three goals in 2022.

So I'm afraid I'm still none the wiser, really.

None the wiser as to what? Do you not think Adams should have scored one of his chances yesterday and also his miss against wolves was horrific? 

[Lighthouse]

2 minutes ago, Turkish said:

None the wiser as to what?

The "other players out there who have scored more goals," which were mention in Billy's post.

2 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Do you not think Adams should have scored one of his chances yesterday and also his miss against wolves was horrific? 

Yes, I agree entirely but he didn't because he's a substandard PL player, even though he's our best striker. I'm not defending Che Adams, I'm saying he's the best we've been able to afford in the last few years.

[John Sydenham]

I think successful teams have some or all of the following

high quality players

enthusiastic confidence building managers

some stunning individual talents

Players with the willingness to bust a gut for the team

brand loyalty in the entire team and all associated with it

noisy passionate fans

a clear consistent tactical strategy

a manager who knows what he wants and gets it

oh and shedloads of cash to spend…

 

How many of the 9 essentials do we have?

 

[John Sydenham]

By the way I score 9/9 for Newcastle

[Daft Kerplunk]

27 minutes ago, John Sydenham said:

I think successful teams have some or all of the following

high quality players (none)

enthusiastic confidence building managers (no)

some stunning individual talents (no)

Players with the willingness to bust a gut for the team (lyanco and Che only)

brand loyalty in the entire team and all associated with it (no)

noisy passionate fans (nope)

a clear consistent tactical strategy (no)

a manager who knows what he wants and gets it (nope)

oh and shedloads of cash to spend… (no)

 

How many of the 9 essentials do we have? (1 and the players who bust a gut aren’t good enough)

 

 

[Hodgey]

So the new whipping boys are Che and JWP. The former puts a big shift in, is decent at holding the ball up and bringing others in, but can only use his right foot, and hits it as hard as he can at the goal - but at this level that generally means it’s at the goalkeeper. The latter looks very frustrated, he’s being overran in midfield, and cannot link up with the att midfielders, the formation / partners has seen his wc dreams ends and his confidence is low. 
The problem is this - both are vastly superior to anyone else in their positions, dropping one or both will make us worse. 
So the answer has to be to try and play to their strengths - for Che that means actually having players support him, he’s a 7-8 goal a season striker and will miss more than he scored, but that’s not a problem if some of our other so called att mid step up and start scoring, find another 8-10 striker, and get JWP back to scoring 8-10 a season( but for that he needs support, and he needs free kicks in the right areas)

Finding a 15 goal a season striker is very unlikely, but we don’t need to if others contribute. And turning the criticism to two players who are clearly still putting a shift in, but are low on confidence mainly due to shocking support from team mates I think misses the mark.

[whelk]

10 minutes ago, Hodgey said:

So the new whipping boys are Che and JWP. The former puts a big shift in, is decent at holding the ball up and bringing others in, but can only use his right foot, and hits it as hard as he can at the goal - but at this level that generally means it’s at the goalkeeper. The latter looks very frustrated, he’s being overran in midfield, and cannot link up with the att midfielders, the formation / partners has seen his wc dreams ends and his confidence is low. 
The problem is this - both are vastly superior to anyone else in their positions, dropping one or both will make us worse. 
So the answer has to be to try and play to their strengths - for Che that means actually having players support him, he’s a 7-8 goal a season striker and will miss more than he scored, but that’s not a problem if some of our other so called att mid step up and start scoring, find another 8-10 striker, and get JWP back to scoring 8-10 a season( but for that he needs support, and he needs free kicks in the right areas)

Finding a 15 goal a season striker is very unlikely, but we don’t need to if others contribute. And turning the criticism to two players who are clearly still putting a shift in, but are low on confidence mainly due to shocking support from team mates I think misses the mark.

Whipping boys my arse. It is the sanctimonious who always want to polarise who get on my tits. Che has missed loads lately and cost us.  JWP has been shite.  Just because he has been better previously doesn’t make him beyond criticism.

 

[Lord Duckhunter]

What a horrendous fucking pointless day. I felt like John Candy in Planes, Trains and Automobiles. Fucking replacement bus’ left right and centre, black cab & Ubers. Horrible waste of drinking time, (the journey, not the match……although on second thoughts). 
 

As for the game, they were a lot better than us first half, and we were slightly the better side second. Again, we’re too slow moving the ball, too obsessed with possession meaning sideways, backwards, safe passes over and over. Our whole approached summed up by the captain. Soft, safe, fucking possession for the sake of it. Horrifically boring side. 
 

Che Adams excellent until it comes to finishing, but if he could finish, he’d have fucked off by now. Lyanco’s error cost us a goal, but other than that did well against decent tricky players. Our crossing was woeful, absolutely terrible. Got in decent positions down the sides, but the final ball is poor. And why do we persist in fanning around at the back, Che can hold the ball up, get it up to him and play off him. He’ll get it down, then we can play from there. I’m sick to death of watching Prowse, Salisu & Diallio give sloppy passes to them in our fucking half. Talking of Salisu, he needs to shape up imo,  Caletta carr looks the part to me, and ABK is probably our best centre half, so he could find himself Sat on the bench if he doesn’t cut out the sloppy shit. 

[whelk]

Did Ipswich take 20,000 to Charlton? The fuckers were everywhere and swamped every boozer

[S-Clarke]

1 hour ago, Hodgey said:

So the new whipping boys are Che and JWP. The former puts a big shift in, is decent at holding the ball up and bringing others in, but can only use his right foot, and hits it as hard as he can at the goal - but at this level that generally means it’s at the goalkeeper. The latter looks very frustrated, he’s being overran in midfield, and cannot link up with the att midfielders, the formation / partners has seen his wc dreams ends and his confidence is low. 
The problem is this - both are vastly superior to anyone else in their positions, dropping one or both will make us worse. 
So the answer has to be to try and play to their strengths - for Che that means actually having players support him, he’s a 7-8 goal a season striker and will miss more than he scored, but that’s not a problem if some of our other so called att mid step up and start scoring, find another 8-10 striker, and get JWP back to scoring 8-10 a season( but for that he needs support, and he needs free kicks in the right areas)

Finding a 15 goal a season striker is very unlikely, but we don’t need to if others contribute. And turning the criticism to two players who are clearly still putting a shift in, but are low on confidence mainly due to shocking support from team mates I think misses the mark.

What's whipping boys all about? Are you simply not allowed to call out anyone? Is everyone always perfect and magical?

JWP has been horrific this season, so bad. Che Adams cannot finish his dinner, as has always been the case. Their situations haven't been helped by the club hanging them out to dry by selling Romeu and not adding a proper attacking player for Adams to feed. In a team with a clinical forward Adams would be a critical component to our game and I'd still play him. It's a sign of regression when we have to rely on him for our goals.

[No-ss]

Adams is like his manager does an ok goal in a blue moon and the manager professes true love and extends his contract for 5 years at £200k pw. JWP who had one purple patch last year (only time in his career) should have been dropped this season by Ralph after a couple of games. Seems to me he's more interested in pulling his armband up than driving forward with the ball.

[OttawaSaint]

9 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

All you’re doing is cherry picking other teams better results and saying we should be like that, without ever actually explaining what, “have a go at,” actually means. What do you want us to do, commit more men forwards and leave more space in behind? You mention Leeds and Forrest against Liverpool but not Bournemouth, why’s that?  Leicester lost 6-2 at Spurs, Forrest themselves lost 6-0 at City, even Man Utd found themselves 4-0 down at HT against City.

I just want us to be more positive, get more chances on goal. We all know Che needs a few chances to score so tge current tactics of giving him 0, 1 or 2 isn't exactly going to produce much. I get that we are not that good but I feel (imo) we are too negative any that alone had cost us about 5-6 points so far.

[OttawaSaint]

7 hours ago, CB Fry said:

If only we went out there and 'had a go' just like wonderful Leeds and wonderful Forest then we'd be absolutely sitting pretty now with a grand total of zero more wins than we've got right now.

Why do you have to be like that. I'm not saying Leeds or Forest are wonderful or even saying we'd be "sitting pretty". I'm just bored of the negative tactics and if we are losing anyway have something to cheer or give me hope we can get out of this mess. 

Our current tactics have us get 1 goal or 0 goals so we have to be really good to get 3 points and often in those games we lost 1-0 both teams were poor and we (imo) squandered points.

[Dark Munster]

10 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

All you’re doing is cherry picking other teams better results and saying we should be like that, without ever actually explaining what, “have a go at,” actually means. What do you want us to do, commit more men forwards and leave more space in behind? You mention Leeds and Forrest against Liverpool but not Bournemouth, why’s that?  Leicester lost 6-2 at Spurs, Forrest themselves lost 6-0 at City, even Man Utd found themselves 4-0 down at HT against City.

Plus “having a go” would be suicidal with a squad that doesn’t have any decent strikers, as well as a light weight midfield.  And we’d be sacrificing the one one thing we’re semi decent at (defending). 

[OttawaSaint]

16 minutes ago, Dark Munster said:

Plus “having a go” would be suicidal with a squad that doesn’t have any decent strikers, as well as a light weight midfield.  And we’d be sacrificing the one one thing we’re semi decent at (defending). 

 

Depends on what "having a go" means. To me it means to stop all this getting up to the box only to pass all the way to Baz to just lump up field to the other team.  

I'd prefer a pass into the box to at least try and get a goal. If we're going to lump it long we may as well, no?

[OttawaSaint]

Because our current shape and tactics have us get either 0 or 1 goal agame. It's not easy to get 3 points that way. 

Edited 30 October, 2022 by OttawaSaint

[wild-saint]

6 hours ago, saintant said:

Those blaming Adams for most of our woes and dropped points and hoping a new striker will make everything right could be in for a rude awakening because whoever it is will miss chances. Every striker misses chances. Haaland, Kane, Ings, Toney all miss chances when they should score. Mitrovitch has scored goals for Fulham yet last night he couldn't hit a cow's ass with a banjo despite getting numerous chances. All these strikers will get far more chances over a season than Adams or any other player in our team so their misses are not polarised the way Che's are. We are such a desperate, poorly coached team with little creativity and our odd chances mainly fall to Adams so we are ultra critical every time he misses. So we expect him to score every single time he has a chance and I do agree he should get a few more goals. But we're in danger of putting the cart before the horse - no striker would score many goals for this team because we just don't create anything like enough chances. That is down to the tactical ineptitude of Ralph and it is his lack of moral fibre that allows him to throw Adams under the bus rather than admitting he himself is getting it very wrong. If people think a new striker is going to cure our woes they are looking in the wrong place and I believe they will be saying the same things but just about a different player.

If we spend £30 odd million on a new striker in January and he misses as many decent opportunities as Che has missed so far this season then we deserve to get relegated. How can anyone be as bad as Che has been this season as finishing chances? I’d sacrifice a bunch of Che’s great ball holding and strength for hitting the fucking back of the net once in a while to be honest.

[Billy the Kidd]

6 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

Which reliable premier league scorers, available for £15m, are you referring to, just out of interest?

So, why would they be premier league scorers. Why cant we go out abroad and look for others.

Im pretty sure some other countries have football leagues, and some of their players are likely to be better a sticking the ball in the net. Not my job to find them, that is the clubs, but Ralph chose to sign Che and AA, neither of which have worked out. It is up to the manager to get the players in his budget, and play to their strengths.

We knew when we signed AA for example, that his best goal scoring periods came not from playing on the wings, or by tracking back to his open 6 yard box, but Ralph has to have players with defensive qualities first and foremost, as clearly he has an issue setting us up to defend.

Talking of defence, yours of Ralph is admirable, any suggestion at what point you would change manager, and when would the actual buck stop with the man that makes the decisions on tactics, formations, training regimes, etc?

[danjosaint]

4 hours ago, No-ss said:

 JWP who had one purple patch last year (only time in his career) should have been dropped this season by Ralph after a couple of games. Seems to me he's more interested in pulling his armband up than driving forward with the ball.

This^^ 

If you watch just before the goal yesterday, yes we will generally blame lyanco, but JWP receives ball, he has 20yds of free space in front of him to carry ball forward, instead of looking forward which he doesnt at any point he passes it sideways onto Lyanco who loses it and they break and score. That stemmed from JWP being as negative as fuck just like his manager

Edited 30 October, 2022 by danjosaint

[The Kraken]

7 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

I'm not defending Che Adams, I'm saying he's the best we've been able to afford in the last few years.

Well he isn't "the best", is he?  We managed to afford Danny Ings in the same window as Adams, and I know which one was (and probably still is) better for Saints.

Previously Adams was, quite rightly, the second striker to someone better.  Now he's our primary striker and that situation just isn't good enough.

Edited 30 October, 2022 by The Kraken

[Dark Munster]

2 hours ago, OttawaSaint said:

 

Depends on what "having a go" means. To me it means to stop all this getting up to the box only to pass all the way to Baz to just lump up field to the other team.  

I'd prefer a pass into the box to at least try and get a goal. If we're going to lump it long we may as well, no?

I assume the "having a go" rant was referring to throwing men forward and making it an end to end game. Fine if we have strikers who can score. Which we don't of course.

But what we are doing now most of the time is also shit, passing around at the back, often losing possession, or if we're lucky humping it up field if we hadn't passed it to one of the other team's attackers or been dispossessed.

In the first half against Palace it was driving me mad. Palace had 5 quick players pressing high, and we were trying to tippy tap it out from the back. If we did manage to work our way to their box as you say we end up passing it back again, because the other team had all the time to get fully organised.

When the opposition has that many high up just lump it over them and try to get it directly to Adams or someone else up field, FFS, which was we end up doing anyway most of the time when the player on the ball was under pressure and didn't actually lose possession in our half.

[david in sweden]

11 hours ago, Billy the Kidd said:

So, not totally disagreeing here, but you are aware Ralph signed both Che and AA.

Now im sure Lighthouse or someone will point out we didnt have much money, which is correct, but there are other players out there that could have produced more goals.

So, when we say it isnt Ralphs fault we didnt sign a striker, he did sign the two already here, so his purchases, you and others (including me) have alluded to, have been failures. Brought by Ralph.

I think we had little choice (and little money ) at the time and both Che and Adam looked good in their big seasons so we (Ralph? ) made the obvious deal.

Maybe you were one of the people who thought we should have bought A.N.OTHER ?, but not sure who that might have been.

I think that one or two other Prem. clubs made very big deals, and those players didn't hit the ground running either.

I don't think that Ralph scouted them himself and he was probably given a choice of those in-form players that we could afford at the time. 

The fact that neither player is hitting good form at present is just another whammy that we have to live with - until they can find form, or the January window opens.

[John B]

11 hours ago, John Sydenham said:

I think successful teams have some or all of the following

high quality players

enthusiastic confidence building managers

some stunning individual talents

Players with the willingness to bust a gut for the team

brand loyalty in the entire team and all associated with it

noisy passionate fans

a clear consistent tactical strategy

a manager who knows what he wants and gets it

oh and shedloads of cash to spend…

 

How many of the 9 essentials do we have?

 

oh and shedloads of cash to spend…is the most important but it needs to be used on high quality players

 

Neither of which we have

[rooney]

Nobody would care if Che missed three easy chances each game as long as he scored one goal a game. He does not do that.