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Wade Garrett

By Wade Garrett,
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Daft Kerplunk

Daft Kerplunk

Posted
Posted
On 01/11/2022 at 10:25, Saint86 said:

I am curious as to what you expect a League 1 / administration / championship level youth intake and academy infrastructure to have achieved?

It takes circa 10years to get u18s (that often join the club as 8year olds etc) ready for first team football at 18 - otherwise why get boys on the books that young ;)

Reality is that we only really started recovering our academy in 2012 onwards, and within that there has to be a gradual progress towards higher levels of performance - we can't just immediately get back to the prem and instantly have the best youth setup. Especially with the funding issues we had post cortese.

i really don't think its rocket science to grasp that, and its fecking bizarre how our fans continue to piss and moan about it despite the obvious progress the academy sides have started to make lately - i.e. we had the best u18s in the country last year outside of city's mega bucks players... that's pretty damn good all things considered. As with the SR recruitment strategy, investment and improvements in the academy are a multiyear project 🤷‍♂️!

Also, we've now signed loads of city's all stars.... so happy days :D

If Marcus took over in 2008 and set up about the club reestablishing itself, why do you think that the academy took another 4 years to begin the recovery? 

From what I understand about the academy set up from Less onwards is that we shouldn’t expect too much from the academy until there is further work by SR to get rid of the remaining legacy of Les’ yes men appointments. Hence why we largely buy in players from other clubs now. 

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Ivan Katalinic's 'tache

Ivan Katalinic's 'tache

Posted
Posted (edited)

Couldn't find the original post - to be fair I didn't look very hard 😂 - but Goztepe are still saying they're bigger than Saints...

https://www.hampshirelive.news/sport/football/football-news/bigger-than-southampton-goztepe-director-7775307

It will be interesting to see where we eventually end up in SR's portfolio of clubs...

 

Edited by Ivan Katalinic's 'tache
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Saint86

Saint86

Posted
Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, Daft Kerplunk said:

If Marcus took over in 2008 and set up about the club reestablishing itself, why do you think that the academy took another 4 years to begin the recovery? 

From what I understand about the academy set up from Less onwards is that we shouldn’t expect too much from the academy until there is further work by SR to get rid of the remaining legacy of Les’ yes men appointments. Hence why we largely buy in players from other clubs now. 

Reasoning as follows - we got taken over (having had the academy staff and players poached by other clubs). From there, as a 3rd tier club (on - 10 points), i would expect it is very hard to attract top talent and top coaches to rapidly have an academy capable of producing Premier league starting level players? - which is the point I think you are maybe debating?

At that time (and the following seasons) we were attracting (and able to sign) such Premier league level mega stars as Barnard, waigo, hooiveld, and Danny fox etc. (to name but a few). Also, Marcus took over the club for the 2009/10 season, not in 2008 :).

The training ground's "Marcus Leibherr Pavilion" upgrades weren't completed until autumn 2014. So that's 5 years to get the ball really rolling... And that took until we were once again a Premier league club. 

Worth noting as well that none of our best players from our peak period of academy players (theo, bale, oxlade) made it as regular first teamers in the prem until they were older. So fans that moan about our current academy should (I think), be happy with any first team quality players that emerge over the next couple of seasons. In a couple of years time, players like dibling / ballard etc. may become some of the first real success stories - and they are probably some of the first proper cohort (at circa age 16), that have benefited from the training ground and academy upgrades from 8years ago. 

Anyway, you're welcome to disagree ofc, but I'm not holding my breath for any currrent 3rd or 2nd tier clubs to regularly churn out ready made prem first teamers at age 18. Academies are long term projects, and changes take years to work fully through the age groups. Fans need to be patient on that front. 🤷‍♂️. 

As for SR, they have a long term plan and modest resources. If fans want instant success then they won't be a happy i fear, especially given what have been quite disappointing years under Gao. But if we do get some good years with lavia/abk and co, and then have more academy prospects coming through in a few seasons, then it represent a good form of progression for the club - and hopefully stand us in good stead 🤗.

Just need to stay up this year.

Edited by Saint86
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notnowcato

notnowcato

Posted
Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, SaintsLoyal said:

Turkish tossers in their tinpot stadium with no fans bigger than us ? laughable bollocks.

B- 

For A grade xenophobia please consider adding something disrespectful to their players, something like Abdul Kickaball, Mehmed Onmehead

Edited by notnowcato
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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Master Bates said:

"Göztepe is a big club, bigger than Southampton.”

http://sportwitness.co.uk/club-chief-setting-joint-scout-department-southampton-wants-build-best-academy-possible/

 

3 hours ago, Pamplemousse said:

They seem to have an inferiority complex, reminds me of certain quotes from our neighbours in the east

 

Maybe Ivan Mance (Göztepe's Sporting Director, to which the above quote is attributed) has been spending too much time talking to Roberto Gagliardi....? ;)

https://blog.transferroom.com/sport-republic-steps-up-multi-club-ownership-plans-with-mance-hire

"Mance's exact role at Sport Republic is not yet known, although he will work closely with Roberto Gagliardi, the former Head of Football Operations at Portsmouth FC, who joined the group earlier this year as Head of Business Development."

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Saint Garrett

Saint Garrett

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Daft Kerplunk said:

If Marcus took over in 2008 and set up about the club reestablishing itself, why do you think that the academy took another 4 years to begin the recovery? 

From what I understand about the academy set up from Less onwards is that we shouldn’t expect too much from the academy until there is further work by SR to get rid of the remaining legacy of Les’ yes men appointments. Hence why we largely buy in players from other clubs now. 

We didnt have a chance recruiting the best youngsters in the area when we were outside of the premier league, basically. 

And Chelsea doubled down on that by recruiting all over hampshire, similar to how we got Bale from the Bristol satellite centre.

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Daft Kerplunk

Daft Kerplunk

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Saint Garrett said:

We didnt have a chance recruiting the best youngsters in the area when we were outside of the premier league, basically. 

And Chelsea doubled down on that by recruiting all over hampshire, similar to how we got Bale from the Bristol satellite centre.

There’s a grain of truth in this but if you have great coaching, parents of kids will see it and know that’s where the best future lies. 100% that Chelsea have broken rules to get the best players but we’ve done the same out west and still don’t get results any more. We just aren’t as good as we used to be because the overall coaching quality has declined where others have improved or upped their game. We should have maintained the top ‘not Chelsea but the best of the rest’ position. 

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Saint Garrett

Saint Garrett

Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, Daft Kerplunk said:

There’s a grain of truth in this but if you have great coaching, parents of kids will see it and know that’s where the best future lies. 100% that Chelsea have broken rules to get the best players but we’ve done the same out west and still don’t get results any more. We just aren’t as good as we used to be because the overall coaching quality has declined where others have improved or upped their game. We should have maintained the top ‘not Chelsea but the best of the rest’ position. 

We couldn’t when the club was in the lower leagues. 

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Daft Kerplunk

Daft Kerplunk

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, Saint Garrett said:

We couldn’t when the club was in the lower leagues. 

We still had the good coaches when we were in the lower leagues. It’s mostly about good coaching from coaches who care about coaching, not just about money. Look at the smaller or poorer clubs everywhere in Europe that still develop players. Good coaching is key. Les established a system of yes men that is the same with people like Semmens, Thomas and Greenwell on the commercial side.   From what I have heard. 

I just hope that SR see through the bullshit and make some changes at the second most important club in their portfolio. 

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FarehamSaintJames

FarehamSaintJames

Posted
Posted

Why does anyone care what this guy (whoever he is) thinks of Saints?

I’ve never heard of him. To be honest I hadn’t heard of Goztepe until the SR talk. But then why would we? To us they aren’t one of the biggest teams in Turkey, just like to them we aren’t one of the biggest teams in England.

It’s all a matter of opinion. But I won’t be losing sleep over it 😂😂

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Saint86

Saint86

Posted
Posted
15 hours ago, SotonianWill said:

I feel so stupid for biting these turkish twats bait 🤣🤣they’ve really succeeded in pissing me off 

Its ultimately irrelevant what they think... we've got access to the prem money and they never will - ergo they will be our feeder club one day.... if they ever produce anything of note. :D Its not nice for them as fans or a club though, but hopefully they get some success out of the Southampton Republic years.

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Saint86

Saint86

Posted
Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Saint Garrett said:

We couldn’t when the club was in the lower leagues. 

Yes agreed. Should be obvious i feel.

As for Daft saying we kept the academy staff etc when we dropped down the leagues. We definetly lost key staff, and i would say its just a total fallacy to imply that top coaches / players wanted to work for / stay at Saints after we got relegated from the prem as a general rule... Let alone during the Championship relegation scraps and eventual administration... or even as a League 1 club that almost went out of business in 2009.

One very prominent example. Huw Jennings (our academy director) left us in 2006 after the prem relegation - became Fulham's academy director in 2008, 10 years later they had a top quality academy turning out players like Sessegnon (who incidentally joined fulham in 2008 as an 8year old) amongst others, and obviously then went on join tottenham in 2019 (11years later)... Also worth noting that as good as he is, he also wasn't a regular first team prem level player at age 18. So again - our fans need to have patience and let the academy changes, upgrades, funding etc. work there way through the age groups.
 

Edited by Saint86
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Daft Kerplunk

Daft Kerplunk

Posted
Posted
On 03/11/2022 at 13:28, Saint86 said:As for Daft saying we kept the academy staff etc when we dropped down the leagues. We definetly lost key staff


 

We still had coaches there in previous eras whilst Les, Martin and Matt Hale were in charge. But they left or were got rid of in favour of yes men. Some top people left but lower down the ladder (the coaches who work directly with the players and influence them more than a leadership spreadsheet) coaches still carried on. 
 

I know you’re a fan of the Saints as much as I am, and I’m sure you’d agree that excuses aren’t helping something that was supposed to have improved 10-14 years+ ago. I just want it to be high quality again like it should be. 

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sfc4prem

sfc4prem

Posted
Posted

The board are essentially excusing themselves for the shite they've reigned over (Semmens in particular) with the pessimistic statements they make. 

 

They continue to claim that we're a small club, that we're lucky to be in the Premier League, that we will do well not to lose half of our games, that league positions don't matter, that we're a selling club.

 

This not only gives them a get-out-of-jail free card for ineptitude, but also sets a precedent and atmosphere that pervades the entire club. It needs to be sorted out as soon as possible.

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Mallagroth

Mallagroth

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, sfc4prem said:

The board are essentially excusing themselves for the shite they've reigned over (Semmens in particular) with the pessimistic statements they make. 

 

They continue to claim that we're a small club, that we're lucky to be in the Premier League, that we will do well not to lose half of our games, that league positions don't matter, that we're a selling club.

 

This not only gives them a get-out-of-jail free card for ineptitude, but also sets a precedent and atmosphere that pervades the entire club. It needs to be sorted out as soon as possible.

This lot behind the scenes are in the wrong industry. Elite Competitive sport is for dreamers, ambitious go getters and people who disregard expectation and limits. They write their own narratives and expect success even when it is in adversity to the realistic outcome.

What you need is a board managing the finances professionally but supporting the athletes in achieving what others say is impossible. Telling someone they aren’t good enough can sometimes spur them on to greatness.
 

But in any walk of life if you tell someone over and over again they are average, punching above their weight and don’t really deserve to be where they are. Guess what will happen to that person… sooner or later they will believe it to be true and you will get what was predicted.

The sentiment of the board over the last few seasons and the clubs ‘message’ of ‘expectations’ is more damaging than anything any Pompey fan has ever said or did to our club.

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Daft Kerplunk

Daft Kerplunk

Posted
Posted
18 hours ago, Mallagroth said:

This lot behind the scenes are in the wrong industry. Elite Competitive sport is for dreamers, ambitious go getters and people who disregard expectation and limits. They write their own narratives and expect success even when it is in adversity to the realistic outcome.

What you need is a board managing the finances professionally but supporting the athletes in achieving what others say is impossible. Telling someone they aren’t good enough can sometimes spur them on to greatness.
 

But in any walk of life if you tell someone over and over again they are average, punching above their weight and don’t really deserve to be where they are. Guess what will happen to that person… sooner or later they will believe it to be true and you will get what was predicted.

The sentiment of the board over the last few seasons and the clubs ‘message’ of ‘expectations’ is more damaging than anything any Pompey fan has ever said or did to our club.

100%

Some of the insipid chat coming from the club (including Ralph) has been so unlike what you need to be in sport that it’s almost unbelievable.

There is a rot at the club that’ starts with the leadership. From the football, to the closing of block 1. SR need to act and make some big changes, and quickly. 

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CB Fry

CB Fry

Posted
Posted (edited)

I don't know about everyone else but it feels good to leave the bad old days behind.

I mean, in the bad old days, under the penny-pinching, soul destroying Gao era, the only manger he appointed was a hugely experienced guy from the German top division with experience at Champions League level as well as experience lower down.

Now, under Sport Republic, in our bold, exciting, dynamic new dawn we are recruiting someone who, er, has some experience of working in Luton and losing 17 games in 38 at Stoke.

When Gao got Ralph in the door the fan base was enthused and excited, it felt like a genuine new dawn.

And that was because Ralph had obvious pedigree.

Put it this way - people on this forum back then did not spend the day of the announcement trotting out shit comparisons and fairy stories to desperately make out this really is a great appointment honest it is. 

No one had to do that because we'd recruited a guy who had recently finished Second in the fucking Bundesliga. It was all there.

 

I now believe Sport Republic actually do want us to be smaller than Göztepe.

Strap in.

 

Edited by CB Fry
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jayrivers

jayrivers

Posted
Posted
41 minutes ago, SuperSAINT said:

 
👀

I don't fully understand what this means, but just to note we still have that shitty covid loan that we can't pay back yet. So it could just be to refinance that loan on better terms / replace it. Also note it says we are one of a number of prem clubs, so doesn't seem that odd. We've always borrowed to offset money as it's never paid in lump sums as well. 

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Lee On Solent Saint

Lee On Solent Saint

Posted
Posted

Are these guys really any different to Gao? They came in to much herald, did a few interviews and said the right things. Fast forward a few months and they completely fucked up the summer transfer window, didn't get rid of Ralph quick enough and our now looking to hire the manager of fuckin Luton Town. Just when you think the ambition of this club can't get any worse, you cam always expect the board to deliver something.

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Wade Garrett

Wade Garrett

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  • Author
Posted (edited)

I was pleased that we spent a few quid in the Summer.  I am pleased that they got rid of the coaching staff.  I am pleased that they have got rid of Ralph (albeit much later than I would have liked).

They’ve spent time identifying who they want.  Give them a chance and the new manager a chance.  
I don’t like they speed they’ve worked at, but at least they’ve made decisions now.

Edited by Wade Garrett
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SuperSAINT

SuperSAINT

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Are these guys really any different to Gao? They came in to much herald, did a few interviews and said the right things. Fast forward a few months and they completely fucked up the summer transfer window, didn't get rid of Ralph quick enough and our now looking to hire the manager of fuckin Luton Town. Just when you think the ambition of this club can't get any worse, you cam always expect the board to deliver something.

I’m amazed they’ve never really done an interview on the official site. 

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Master Bates

Master Bates

Posted
Posted (edited)

Saints seeking investment from Wall Street firms

"Southampton have sent documents to prospective owners in the US with a proposal inviting them to set a borrowing package worth around £80m against the club's assets - instead of seeking a sell-off of shares - it claims. That is said to have included a £20 million revolving credit facility and £60 million loan."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-11402573/amp/Liverpool-joined-long-list-teams-seeking-investment-FSG-club-sale.html

Edited by Master Bates
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SuperSAINT

SuperSAINT

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, jayrivers said:

I don't fully understand what this means, but just to note we still have that shitty covid loan that we can't pay back yet. So it could just be to refinance that loan on better terms / replace it. Also note it says we are one of a number of prem clubs, so doesn't seem that odd. We've always borrowed to offset money as it's never paid in lump sums as well. 

Supposedly it is this.  Refinancing the MSD Holdings loan. 

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Saint86

Saint86

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, skintsaint said:

Timing is weird, why didn't they look for investment in the summer when optimism etc was high, now stuck in the bottom 3 who will invest now there is a greater risk of relegation?

The way i see it, we only have £30M for two attackers - they want £50M...?

Edited by Saint86
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