Man City 4-0 Saints - Match Thread

[The Kraken]

11 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

Sick according to Solent 

Sick of playing with a bunch of misfits.

[maysie]

Ralph’s time is up and I agree we need a change but that’s not based on this game but the general trend.

Weirdly for a 4-0 loss I thought both CBs and the goalie had a good game.

Our problems today were a non existent midfield and a general lack of forward passing. Also Armstrong was so high up first half particularly that KWP was horribly isolated and most of the time 2vs1 with Foden  and Cancello. Not sure if this was tactical or just laziness to track back from Armstrong.

[Toussaint]

8 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Sick of playing with a bunch of misfits.

Shoved his fingers down his throat on the coach apparently 

[Sheaf Saint]

40 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

As has been said, it’s not the score line. We were something like 22-1 before the game, we were never going to win and keeping it to 1-0 would have been very good. More obviously, it’s the manner of defeat that matters the most. Compare it to some of the better Ralph performances away against top teams under his tenure, and this is a million miles away.

This is it. Our poor results against teams around us over the last couple of years have been (almost) excused by our surprising ability to compete with the top teams. At times anyway. Look at our 0-0 at the Etihad last season. It was a superb effort with every single player putting in a fantastic shift and working hard for each other to defend as a unit from front to back.

Now compare that to today's performance. You'd never believe it was the same team. There was no belief, no cohesion, and pitifully little fight. 

I just don't see Ralph turning this around, unfortunately.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, Golac's Cunning Stunts said:

Bompey's squad is even more limited than ours, yet they are 8th? 

They lost 4-0 at Man City too.

[captainchris]

29 minutes ago, maysie said:

Ralph’s time is up and I agree we need a change but that’s not based on this game but the general trend.

Weirdly for a 4-0 loss I thought both CBs and the goalie had a good game.

Our problems today were a non existent midfield and a general lack of forward passing. Also Armstrong was so high up first half particularly that KWP was horribly isolated and most of the time 2vs1 with Foden  and Cancello. Not sure if this was tactical or just laziness to track back from Armstrong.

This is Ralph tactics to play the midfield far too advanced ! It’s classic Ralph and after four years it is still exactly the same… Coupled with two up front we have no midfield.

Ralph seems completely blind or stubborn to the tactical mess.

 

[egg]

1 hour ago, Golac's Cunning Stunts said:

Bompey's squad is even more limited than ours, yet they are 8th? 

Yep, what Bournemouth are doing shows that there's managers out there capable of stepping up and working well with average players. Potter did similar when he first went to Brighton. 

[captainchris]

It would appear that some supporters and Ralph are now judging performances on the manner of defeats as a positive to be taken from so many  poor results.

This is now what we are reduced to under Ralph. To take positives as a matter of fact from so many defeats is surely not acceptable or, have we fallen that far….

It is unbelievable that the owners are satisfied to continue with the current level of management and acceptance of poor performance throughout the club.

As an aside it appears that Semmens is far too cozy with Ralph, emotionally attached and both should go. IMO Semmens is not ambitious enough and has been allowed to get comfortable and promote very low expectations throughout the club.

if Ralph should go ( He Should) then Semmens has to go too, he is complicit. 

[cambsaint]

The score was better than i had expected and whisper it only just par for Man City at home.

The reports seem to suggest we showed no threat at all.

I have concluded that R H has lost our senior players , this is the only logical reason he doesn't start S Armstrong, and partially accounts for JWP and KWP 's under par performance.

I trust that Romeu really wanted to go home to Catalonia (can't blame him for that) and insisted on a move. If not it was an egregious error of judgement.

R H must go asap before things get even worse.

 

[The Kraken]

2 minutes ago, cambsaint said:

The score was better than i had expected and whisper it only just par for Man City at home.

The reports seem to suggest we showed no threat at all.

I have concluded that R H has lost our senior players , this is the only logical reason he doesn't start S Armstrong, and partially accounts for JWP and KWP 's under par performance.

I trust that Romeu really wanted to go home to Catalonia (can't blame him for that) and insisted on a move. If not it was an egregious error of judgement.

R H must go asap before things get even worse.

 

Not to go all MLG but S Armstrong started today.

[saintant]

8 minutes ago, captainchris said:

It would appear that some supporters and Ralph are now judging performances on the manner of defeats as a positive to be taken from so many  poor results.

This is now what we are reduced to under Ralph. To take positives as a matter of fact from so many defeats is surely not acceptable or, have we fallen that far….

It is unbelievable that the owners are satisfied to continue with the current level of management and acceptance of poor performance throughout the club.

As an aside it appears that Semmens is far too cozy with Ralph, emotionally attached and both should go. IMO Semmens is not ambitious enough and has been allowed to get comfortable and promote very low expectations throughout the club.

if Ralph should go ( He Should) then Semmens has to go too, he is complicit. 

Four more consecutive defeats and just one goal scored. This is death by a thousand cuts. Nothing will improve until Ralph is out of the building and his playbook is burned.

[bpsaint]

We were lucky that City treated today like a pre-season friendly. Whether it’s because of Pep’s fondness for Ralph I don’t know but they definitely pulled back on the urgency, particularly compared to how they played against United last week.

The triangle of ABK, Salish and Bazunu are the only people that really come away with any credit today. Everyone else was 5 out of 10 at best.

[S-Clarke]

We carry no threat at all, it's really depressing to try and see us attack with that bunch of misfits.

You can tell we're weaker in that area because we're starting with Adam Armstrong, he shouldn't be anywhere near a competitive PL team. It's no wonder we are toothless.

Midfield also an enormous issue, the gaps and the lightweightness in that area is nothing short of dire.

We basically undone a really good transfer window in the last 2 days of it. Only we could have done that.

Edited 8 October, 2022 by S-Clarke

[Pamplemousse]

1 hour ago, The Kraken said:

Not to go all MLG but S Armstrong started today.

I wish he didn't, he was anonymous. No better than Elyounoussi who gets slated on here, rather harshly 

[The Kraken]

1 minute ago, Pamplemousse said:

I wish he didn't, he was anonymous. No better than Elyounoussi who gets slated on here, rather harshly 

Aside from the two CBs I’m holding nobody from our team in any esteem today.

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

41 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

We carry no threat at all, it's really depressing to try and see us attack with that bunch of misfits.

You can tell we're weaker in that area because we're starting with Adam Armstrong, he shouldn't be anywhere near a competitive PL team. It's no wonder we are toothless.

Midfield also an enormous issue, the gaps and the lightweightness in that area is nothing short of dire.

We basically undone a really good transfer window in the last 2 days of it. Only we could have done that.

So true. I used to like Dalek's comments on this forum and now I'm often agreeing with S-Clarke. Today was depressing. Saints v Derby 1974 my first game and actually can't remember a worse attack or also a worse midfield. But back line is strong. Get Ely and Diallo off the pitch. How they made it as professional footballers is a mystery. At this level, positive mindset is so important. 5/6 games ago after our Chelsea win, we were looking forward to the season. WHU and Bournemouth could be Ralph's last but change the mindset and I've a suspicion we will win both and he'll be around for a while.     

[sadoldgit]

2 hours ago, captainchris said:

It would appear that some supporters and Ralph are now judging performances on the manner of defeats as a positive to be taken from so many  poor results.

This is now what we are reduced to under Ralph. To take positives as a matter of fact from so many defeats is surely not acceptable or, have we fallen that far….

It is unbelievable that the owners are satisfied to continue with the current level of management and acceptance of poor performance throughout the club.

As an aside it appears that Semmens is far too cozy with Ralph, emotionally attached and both should go. IMO Semmens is not ambitious enough and has been allowed to get comfortable and promote very low expectations throughout the club.

if Ralph should go ( He Should) then Semmens has to go too, he is complicit. 

You don’t think that the people who own the club have anything to do with the major decisions within it?

[Forester]

Just back, another anaemic display and I have read that we touched the ball ONCE in their penalty area.  
 

We are going down unless there is a managerial change.  End of.

[John B]

9 minutes ago, Forester said:

Just back, another anaemic display and I have read that we touched the ball ONCE in their penalty area.  
 

We are going down unless there is a managerial change.  End of.

Do you not think that the players we have now are not very good we are in the PL without many experienced and talented PL players unlike most of the other teams in the league

 

Do you really think another manager is going to make them start winning

 

The whole idea of buying lots of young players and expecting to be competive is ridulous just like Lis Truss economic policies

 

If it was a good idea why are not other players adopting the plan

[Forester]

9 minutes ago, John B said:

Do you not think that the players we have now are not very good we are in the PL without many experienced and talented PL players unlike most of the other teams in the league

 

Do you really think another manager is going to make them start winning

 

The whole idea of buying lots of young players and expecting to be competive is ridulous just like Lis Truss economic policies

 

If it was a good idea why are not other players adopting the plan

I think there have been some good signings these last two seasons, and we are missing two of them through injury.  However there are several players who in my opinion have been shown to have been good enough before who are under performing.  KWP, Perraud, JWP, Stuart Armstrong and Adams are all horribly out of form and performances, not just results are dire.  Ralph is paid millions to manage the team, he has now under performed for a lengthy period.  It’s time for a new approach 

Edited 8 October, 2022 by Forester

[danjosaint]

9 minutes ago, John B said:

 

 

Do you really think another manager is going to make them start winning

 

 

Yes i do, not every week obviously but a display that gives you hope and belief in this team, being galvanized and hard to beat with an identity

[revolution saint]

43 minutes ago, John B said:

Do you really think another manager is going to make them start winning

Yes.

[Lighthouse]

About the most positive thing I can say at the moment is that in the four games Lavia and ABK have both played, we scored all of our seven points. When he’s fit again we might start looking like a better team. 

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

51 minutes ago, John B said:

Do you really think another manager is going to make them start winning

 

Yes I do

[Turkish]

4 hours ago, egg said:

Yep, what Bournemouth are doing shows that there's managers out there capable of stepping up and working well with average players. Potter did similar when he first went to Brighton. 

No no no! We couldn’t possibly expect anything more than this without a recognised striker. How dare they let Ralph down 

[West end Saints]

Player ratings? 

GB 6

KWP 2

BKP 6

Salisu 6

JWP 3

Diallo 2

Stu 2

Aribo 4

Che 3

AAdams 3

Ely 4

Djenpo 4

 

5 adequate

[Brissysaint]

8 minutes ago, West end Saints said:

Player ratings? 

GB 6

KWP 2

BKP 6

Salisu 6

JWP 3

Diallo 2

Stu 2

Aribo 4

Che 3

AAdams 3

Ely 4

Djenpo 4

 

5 adequate

You must be feeling very generous today with those ratings 😂

 

on another note can I have a loan? I only need a few thousand and I promise I’ll pay it back

[austsaint]

8 hours ago, The Kraken said:

 Bazunu just doesn’t make saves. His positioning is terrible, he’s given Mahrez all of the goal to aim at. He did similar with the Cancelo goal, just hugs the near post.

Thought he had a great game....as did Salisu and ABK.   The real eye opener today was the lack of fight and bravery throughout the side, which has been present in previous recent clashes with Man City. - no better illustrated than in midfield.    Diallo really is not up to the role and though some will interpret JWP's performances as him being "out of form" or "not having his mind" on Football - I see him as an average outfield Prem midfielder with a class dead ball technique; he can't lift or influence a game with run, evasion or progressive passing, and it sets a static rhythm throughout the team.    The absence of Lavia and Romeu only highlights that observation.

Almost goes without saying that there has to be a change of Manager.    A freshen up and a change of managerial face is now urgent to change the course of this familiar Ralph slump.

[CB Fry]

I don't really understand how the analytical stats work, but The Athletic said we had an XG of 0.1 yesterday - is that good?

[sfc4prem]

56 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

I don't really understand how the analytical stats work, but The Athletic said we had an XG of 0.1 yesterday - is that good?

Wow.

[LiberalCommunist]

Even on the replay, I keep expecting Haalands post shot to go in. 

His timing, pace and body shape were all just perfect. Glad to get out of there with a four. 

On to the next. 

[Chez]

1 hour ago, CB Fry said:

I don't really understand how the analytical stats work, but The Athletic said we had an XG of 0.1 yesterday - is that good?

Unless it relates to goalkeeper coming off his line or CB positioning, I'd hazard a guess at no.

 

[Boris Karloff]

14 hours ago, bpsaint said:

We were lucky that City treated today like a pre-season friendly. Whether it’s because of Pep’s fondness for Ralph I don’t know but they definitely pulled back on the urgency, particularly compared to how they played against United last week.

The triangle of ABK, Salish and Bazunu are the only people that really come away with any credit today. Everyone else was 5 out of 10 at best.

I don't agree. This is how City play against most teams. They were maybe more intense last week but it was a derby. 

Last week everything was around the front three and KDB. Cancelo played very deep. This week he played more like a winger. Maybe that's because we let him, but it's hardly a sign of a lack of ambition on City's part. 

[S-Clarke]

14 hours ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

So true. I used to like Dalek's comments on this forum and now I'm often agreeing with S-Clarke. Today was depressing. Saints v Derby 1974 my first game and actually can't remember a worse attack or also a worse midfield. But back line is strong. Get Ely and Diallo off the pitch. How they made it as professional footballers is a mystery. At this level, positive mindset is so important. 5/6 games ago after our Chelsea win, we were looking forward to the season. WHU and Bournemouth could be Ralph's last but change the mindset and I've a suspicion we will win both and he'll be around for a while.     

Oh christ, please don't compare me to Dalek 😀

I haven't said we should aim for 17th yet....😉

[S-Clarke]

12 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

About the most positive thing I can say at the moment is that in the four games Lavia and ABK have both played, we scored all of our seven points. When he’s fit again we might start looking like a better team. 

Isn't it a bit worrying though that we look reliant on an 18-year-old kid? It does show how poor our options are and why letting Romeu go was an own-goal.

[manji]

At the end of the game Pep and Ralph had a surprisingly long chat . Ralph looked well agitated waving his arms around. I draw no conclusions but it was unusual. Far from the usual “ bad luck old chap “. 
 

Looked like a man on the edge of a breakdown.
 

 

 

Edited 9 October, 2022 by manji

[david in sweden]

5 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Isn't it a bit worrying though that we look reliant on an 18-year-old kid? It does show how poor our options are and why letting Romeu go was an own-goal.

we are well into the generational change that some of us predicted in the summer.  These lads are good ...for their age... and show real talent, but 

it's clear that when coming up against top Prem. sides they are still..."  a work in progress ". Unfortunately, our remaining experienced players 

haven't shown up very well in the opening games, and the outcome is clearly predictable. 

 

Conceding only 4 to Man City must be looked at with a small degree of relief, considering their recent form and Haaland finally got just the one goal.

Given that we concede 4 at Tottenham,  and 4 yesterday, our other losses have been by a one goal margin, but the real problem is at the other end.

In 9  Prem. games we have clocked up....105 shots and scored just 8 goals.  Let's not condemn the defence too harshly, as we have failed to score

in 4 of our last 6 Prem. games.  Either we must wait for "someone " to hit a scoring streak, or hope we can stay safe from the drop zone until the

January window and then buy a reliable goalscorer....from somewhere.

[The Kraken]

26 minutes ago, manji said:

At the end of the game Pep and Ralph had a surprisingly long chat . Ralph looked well agitated waving his arms around. I draw no conclusions but it was unusual. Far from the usual “ bad luck old chap “. 
 

Looked like a man on the edge of a breakdown.
 

 

 

It was a bit odd. Pep looked like he just wanted to get away from Ralph but Ralph kept jabbering is his ear and pointing at things.

[manji]

21 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

It was a bit odd. Pep looked like he just wanted to get away from Ralph but Ralph kept jabbering is his ear and pointing at things.

Yeah the pointing at things was weird.

[Lighthouse]

1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

Isn't it a bit worrying though that we look reliant on an 18-year-old kid? It does show how poor our options are and why letting Romeu go was an own-goal.

Letting him go wasn’t the issue, replacing him with AMN was the issue. We replaced Romeu AND brought in Lavia to play first team football. We’ve still added depth to that position, but we were never going to keep all three.

If AMN hadn’t played/trained like a fish up a tree so far, nobody would be missing Romeu.

[Dellman]

Romeo has been terrific for us but he was near the end of his Premier life and it showed last season. AMN has talent but has never developed to fulfil it. He could do Romeo's job well, be the ideal replacement, perfect opportunity for him to show his quality. But some talented people just don't do the necessary training. We've had one or two like that before, looks like we may have another. If so, big loss for him and us. 

[Midfield_General]

The problem there though is that AMN isn’t an out and out defensive midfielder and never has been. He’s certainly not a specialist like Romeu was. AMN has said that he considers his best position to be as a winger. So when Lavia is out, because JWP or Diallo aren’t that player either despite how much we seem to want to pretend they are, we have no other proper ‘destroyer’ type defensive midfielders at all. AMN won’t solve that. And that’s one of the reasons our midfield is so ineffective at the moment - the balance is all wrong.

Plus, Romeu could receive the ball, protect it and play out successfully from tight situations, which none of the others can do as well as he did. So we’ve lost that element of ball retention too. 

Our midfield and attack are just a mess at the moment, which is why we’re so poor. 

[spyinthesky]

45 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

The problem there though is that AMN isn’t an out and out defensive midfielder and never has been. He’s certainly not a specialist like Romeu was. AMN has said that he considers his best position to be as a winger. So when Lavia is out, because JWP or Diallo aren’t that player either despite how much we seem to want to pretend they are, we have no other proper ‘destroyer’ type defensive midfielders at all. AMN won’t solve that. And that’s one of the reasons our midfield is so ineffective at the moment - the balance is all wrong.

Plus, Romeu could receive the ball, protect it and play out successfully from tight situations, which none of the others can do as well as he did. So we’ve lost that element of ball retention too. 

Our midfield and attack are just a mess at the moment, which is why we’re so poor. 

I agree.
Our back four is decent now but we are getting overrun in midfield with no steel or creativity.
JWP is a very decent player but, understandably, is not looking on top of his form recently without decent partners.
Romeu form was on the slide but he was better than we have at the moment until such time as a fit Lavia returns.
None of the other options are up to the job and I would like to think we had a decent left footed player in midfield or up front.
Unfortunately the Armstrongs x 2, Djneppo, Mara, Maitland-Nyles, Diallo, Elyounoussi, and possibly Che Evans too are no more than average players at Premiership level.
In fact if we were to take our back four and JWP out of our side, I wonder how the remnants would fare in the Championship?

 

[The Cat]

1 hour ago, Midfield_General said:

The problem there though is that AMN isn’t an out and out defensive midfielder and never has been. He’s certainly not a specialist like Romeu was. AMN has said that he considers his best position to be as a winger. So when Lavia is out, because JWP or Diallo aren’t that player either despite how much we seem to want to pretend they are, we have no other proper ‘destroyer’ type defensive midfielders at all. AMN won’t solve that. And that’s one of the reasons our midfield is so ineffective at the moment - the balance is all wrong.

Plus, Romeu could receive the ball, protect it and play out successfully from tight situations, which none of the others can do as well as he did. So we’ve lost that element of ball retention too. 

Our midfield and attack are just a mess at the moment, which is why we’re so poor. 

We need a midfield general. What are you doing next weekend?

[rallyboy]

The usual big club biased MotD coverage!

Hardly showed anything of us attacking, even the analysis was all about them, no mention at all of that throw-in we won in the second half.  

😡

[Saint Fan CaM]

Again, not the result we wanted but stock horror it’s the one we largely expected. I’ll not bother repeating player ratings because until our Manager/coaching team change the style of football we play, those stats are largely meaningless IMO. I do think the summer missed out on two critical positions (in the hindsight Romeu was going)…DMF and Striker. Ralph needs to go with immediate effect and his replacement needs to be pretty damned good to be able to shake the squad out the stupor Ralph has installed in them. It’s not looking at all positive or promising.

[JRM]

7 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

Isn't it a bit worrying though that we look reliant on an 18-year-old kid? It does show how poor our options are and why letting Romeu go was an own-goal.

Agree, it's why I couldn't understand when others were getting carried away about it being a 9/10 transfer window , it didn't make any sense to me 

[Victor]

4 hours ago, spyinthesky said:

I agree.
Our back four is decent now but we are getting overrun in midfield with no steel or creativity.
JWP is a very decent player but, understandably, is not looking on top of his form recently without decent partners.
Romeu form was on the slide but he was better than we have at the moment until such time as a fit Lavia returns.
None of the other options are up to the job and I would like to think we had a decent left footed player in midfield or up front.
Unfortunately the Armstrongs x 2, Djneppo, Mara, Maitland-Nyles, Diallo, Elyounoussi, and possibly Che Evans too are no more than average players at Premiership level.
In fact if we were to take our back four and JWP out of our side, I wonder how the remnants would fare in the Championship?

 

Funny, I really rate that Che Evans.  In some of our toughest games he's been our get-out-of-jail card (or was that his brother?).

[cambsaint]

The Telegraph reporter said our centre backs relished the physical challenge and gave Haarland orobably his most difficult time so far this year. not having watched the match I can't comment, but would be interested in comments from those who went.

[saintant]

5 hours ago, Midfield_General said:

The problem there though is that AMN isn’t an out and out defensive midfielder and never has been. He’s certainly not a specialist like Romeu was. AMN has said that he considers his best position to be as a winger. So when Lavia is out, because JWP or Diallo aren’t that player either despite how much we seem to want to pretend they are, we have no other proper ‘destroyer’ type defensive midfielders at all. AMN won’t solve that. And that’s one of the reasons our midfield is so ineffective at the moment - the balance is all wrong.

Plus, Romeu could receive the ball, protect it and play out successfully from tight situations, which none of the others can do as well as he did. So we’ve lost that element of ball retention too. 

Our midfield and attack are just a mess at the moment, which is why we’re so poor. 

If winger really is AMN's best position maybe play him there. Or is that too simplistic? He must have something about him although maybe he's another of those that waste their talent and just steal a living.