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The 'New Manager' thread

Bad Wolf

By Bad Wolf
in The Saints

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Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted
  On 07/11/2022 at 21:31, Mr X said:

Footballers have egos as we all know how are they possibly going to look up to and respect a manager that hasn't achieved anything at all at a high level either in this country or the equivalent abroad? Or even as a player? 

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If this fella can coach, man manage, is tactically astute, picks the right team and of course the side wins, it won't take long before he has the full respect of players. Fucking tough job though. 

  • Like 4
Saint_clark

Saint_clark

Posted
Posted
  On 07/11/2022 at 21:26, Chez said:

not sure it's quite the same, but if Mara came in on buttons then scored 20 goals in his first season his agent would be knocking on the managers door for Ing' money.

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Exactly, and if Jones comes in and gets us into the Europa League or wins a cup in his first full season he'll be knocking on the chairman's door for Ralph money.

woodsaint1

woodsaint1

Posted
Posted
  On 07/11/2022 at 21:31, Mr X said:

Footballers have egos as we all know how are they possibly going to look up to and respect a manager that hasn't achieved anything at all at a high level either in this country or the equivalent abroad? Or even as a player? 

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Well isnt it a good thing we have a group of players who have achieved next to fuck all in their careers (with the exception of Walcott who doesnt seem like he'll rock the boat)

  • Like 2
NorthLondonSFC

NorthLondonSFC

Posted
Posted

Not sure if anyone has suggested this yet but to me it seems like he’s being brought in to work alongside Selles. Jones would be more inclined to share the role with our hotshot prodigy coach than a manager who was more established.

woodsaint1

woodsaint1

Posted
Posted
  On 07/11/2022 at 22:02, aintforever said:

Why would that be a good thing?

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Because then hopefully they wont get on their high horse and judge a manager on what hes achieved in his playing career or early managing career. What had Graham Potter or Eddie Howe achieved when they took their first job in the PL? All that matters is his coaching on the training ground, his man management, his game management and ultimately results. Get those things right and the players will not care a jot about his experience or lack of

  • Like 3
Dusic

Dusic

Posted
Posted (edited)

Whilst I am very dubious, here is an alternative way to view it:

Its pretty easy to see why Ankersen et al are fans of Nathan Jones.

He may not tick the boxes of PL experience, European experience etc but he ticks the box that they likely see as what we most need:

A manager with proven ability to finish above teams with better players and deeper pockets.

I would imagine key to that is hard work, team spirit, role clarity and being willing to change up tactically recognising that you can't play the same way against everyone and, with lesser players, you have to be a pain to play against in various ways - something we haven't been for ages.

At Stoke there was expectation of winning, players who thought they were better than their opponent and who had previously played at a higher level.

In this context his job at Saints will be much more similar to his job at Luton than at Stoke.

 

 

Edited by Dusic
  • Like 8
Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted
  On 07/11/2022 at 22:07, woodsaint1 said:

What had Graham Potter or Eddie Howe achieved when they took their first job in the PL? 

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Potter achieved a couple of league promotions with Ostersund. 

Howe's first PL job was obviously with Bournemouth, who he'd got promoted, twice.

  • Like 2
DT

DT

Posted
Posted
  On 07/11/2022 at 22:19, Dusic said:

Whilst I am very dubious, here is an alternative way to view it:

Its pretty easy to see why Ankersen et al are fans of Nathan Jones.

He may not tick the boxes of PL experience, European experience etc but he ticks the box that they likely see as what we most need:

A manager with proven ability to finish above teams with better players and deeper pockets.

I would imagine key to that is hard work, team spirit and being willing to change up tactically recognising that you can't play the same way against everyone and with lesser players have to be a pain to play against in various ways, something we haven't been for ages.

At Stoke there was expectation of winning, players who thought they were better than their opponent and who had previously played at a higher level.

In this context his job at Saints will be much more similar to his job at Luton than at Stoke.

 

 

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Good points. Agree. 

aintforever

aintforever

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 07/11/2022 at 22:07, woodsaint1 said:

Because then hopefully they wont get on their high horse and judge a manager on what hes achieved in his playing career or early managing career. What had Graham Potter or Eddie Howe achieved when they took their first job in the PL? All that matters is his coaching on the training ground, his man management, his game management and ultimately results. Get those things right and the players will not care a jot about his experience or lack of

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They probably will get on their high horse because even our shittest players have more experience at the top level than he has. It doesn’t mean he won’t be a success but it just makes his job harder. Howe took Bournemouth up so earned his position in the Prem and Potter had success in Europe so both could speak with some amount of authority. 

Hopefully he is a talented manager and he will be a success but it is a massive gamble, smacks of trying to be too clever.

Edited by aintforever
CB Fry

CB Fry

Posted
Posted
  On 07/11/2022 at 18:37, manji said:

We’ve been tracking Jones for four months. Filming how his team plays doing Analytica on tactics. Even been filming his body language on the touchline. Knowing the way Rasmussen works I am confident this has been well thought through.

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As soon as the news came through I thought to myself that this is the kind of appointment made by a club where money is no object.

  • Haha 3
Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd

Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd

Posted
Posted
  On 07/11/2022 at 20:47, Lord Duckhunter said:

On the face of it, it’s not a particularly exciting appointment. But I haven’t a clue what the blokes like, and I doubt many of the critics have either. Somebody at the club has clearly identified him as a good fit, so let’s hope they’re right. 
 

There’s nothing wrong with his failure at Stoke, provided he’s learnt from it and become a better manager as a result of it. Sometimes failure teaches you more about yourself than success. Another god botherer Davie Moyes has put poor spells at clubs behind him and done a decent job afterwards.

The lack of top flight experience could be any issue, but I don’t see our lads as the “show us your medals” type of professionals. If he puts a few decent sessions on and is tactically intelligent, I’m sure they’ll buy into him. It’s a big chance for the bloke, let’s hope he takes it and in a couple of years time we’re calling him a disloyal twat when he fucks off to a bigger club. 

 

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Luton are my second team. I watch them as much as I watch Saints. There's no doubt that Jones has done a great job at Luton, but this is his level. His football is poor. He's a Dave Bassett, Neil Warnock kind of manager. Luton work hard but they're not great to watch. Despite his relative success, I really don't like him at all. He's a badge kissing, chest thumping moron with a bit of an ego. He jumped ship at the first opportunity when he went to Stoke and then came back with his tail between his legs. A lot of Luton fans still dislike him for that. I'd say a lot of his success is actually down to the fans being the 12th man and making Kenilworth Road a bit intimidating. It's a small noisy ground, the fans get behind the team and he plays up to that.
Tactically, he's nothing special and I don't see him being able to hack it at Premiership level with a big ground full of fans who don't really get behind the team. No disrespect, but our fans aren't exactly the noisiest bunch and St. Mary's isn't somewhere that intimidates opposing teams. 

This is a bizarre decision as spit and sawdust managers like Jones never last in the top flight. They're not about playing nice attractive football. It's about all being physical and let's be honest, Saint's aren't exactly a physical team. 

I think he'll be out of his depth and is in for a massive shock. I think our players are in for a bigger shock, and I think our fans are already in shock. 

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Captain Scarlet

Captain Scarlet

Posted
Posted

You all do realize  he’s f###ing nuts!

“I went to God after the game and said, ‘Why did you do that?’ It was a big moment. And all he said was: ‘Be still and know that I am God.’ I read it that day, during my daily reading: be still and know that I am God.”

We are done for! Can’t do this God botherer BS.

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CB Fry

CB Fry

Posted
Posted
  On 07/11/2022 at 22:39, Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd said:

Luton are my second team. I watch them as much as I watch Saints. There's no doubt that Jones has done a great job at Luton, but this is his level. His football is poor. He's a Dave Bassett, Neil Warnock kind of manager. Luton work hard but they're not great to watch. Despite his relative success, I really don't like him at all. He's a badge kissing, chest thumping moron with a bit of an ego. He jumped ship at the first opportunity when he went to Stoke and then came back with his tail between his legs. A lot of Luton fans still dislike him for that. I'd say a lot of his success is actually down to the fans being the 12th man and making Kenilworth Road a bit intimidating. It's a small noisy ground, the fans get behind the team and he plays up to that.
Tactically, he's nothing special and I don't see him being able to hack it at Premiership level with a big ground full of fans who don't really get behind the team. No disrespect, but our fans aren't exactly the noisiest bunch and St. Mary's isn't somewhere that intimidates opposing teams. 

This is a bizarre decision as spit and sawdust managers like Jones never last in the top flight. They're not about playing nice attractive football. It's about all being physical and let's be honest, Saint's aren't exactly a physical team. 

I think he'll be out of his depth and is in for a massive shock. I think our players are in for a bigger shock, and I think our fans are already in shock. 

Expand  

Its interesting to read this an other write ups on Jones.

There seems to be a belief amongst some on here that Jones is some hipster exciting manager but everything I am seeing suggests he us as old school cloggy as they come.

There's people on here raving and getting excited about Jones because "at least he's not Sean Dyche".

But from what I can see, he is Sean Dyche. That's exactly what he is.

 

  • Like 8
Saint86

Saint86

Posted
Posted

Concerning appointment. Massive leap for NJ - stepping up to the prem for the first time, and with a disillusioned low confidence young squad. Feels like massive error by the club. The only way this works is with serious monetary backing in January - to the tune of a 17+ goal a prem season striker (or similar), a quality addition at CAM, and cover at CDM. Particularly given NJ plays two CDM's quite often.

Dragon_man

Dragon_man

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 07/11/2022 at 21:04, Saint Garrett said:

Absolutely.  The club and fans needed a lift, and I don't see Nathan Jones giving us that. He may or may not turn out to be a good appointment but it seems to be an appointment with next season in mind...

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Wonder what the players feel? Hard to see JWP thinking 'here's someone who can really develop my game through his top flight experience of working with real talent'

Edited by Dragon_man
  • Like 3
moonraker

moonraker

Posted
Posted

I appreciate times have changed, and modern day footballer egos can be off the scale, but we have a history of appointing managers with no top level experience and many of them turned out to be good.  Mcmenamy, Nicholl, Poch, even Ted Bates.  The difference now and my big worry is there is no time in the modern game for managers to develop their own team.  

Dragon_man

Dragon_man

Posted
Posted
  On 07/11/2022 at 21:00, saintrich said:

I don't think him failing at Stoke is that much to read into. They have been a shambles of a club since relegation. Michael O'Neill did a great job at Northern Ireland and failed at Stoke.

Alex Neil was doing a good job at Sunderland and jumped ship to Stoke and it's going badly wrong, their fans were frothing at the mouth after they lost again at the weekend.

They are just a rotten club.

If Sport Republic have been tracking him for a while and think he's a good fit then I'm happy to go with that. If Semmens suggestion I'd be more 

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We could well be like Stoke soon

  • Like 1
Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted
  On 07/11/2022 at 22:39, Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd said:

Luton are my second team. I watch them as much as I watch Saints. There's no doubt that Jones has done a great job at Luton, but this is his level. His football is poor. He's a Dave Bassett, Neil Warnock kind of manager. Luton work hard but they're not great to watch. Despite his relative success, I really don't like him at all. He's a badge kissing, chest thumping moron with a bit of an ego. He jumped ship at the first opportunity when he went to Stoke and then came back with his tail between his legs. A lot of Luton fans still dislike him for that. I'd say a lot of his success is actually down to the fans being the 12th man and making Kenilworth Road a bit intimidating. It's a small noisy ground, the fans get behind the team and he plays up to that.
Tactically, he's nothing special and I don't see him being able to hack it at Premiership level with a big ground full of fans who don't really get behind the team. No disrespect, but our fans aren't exactly the noisiest bunch and St. Mary's isn't somewhere that intimidates opposing teams. 

This is a bizarre decision as spit and sawdust managers like Jones never last in the top flight. They're not about playing nice attractive football. It's about all being physical and let's be honest, Saint's aren't exactly a physical team. 

I think he'll be out of his depth and is in for a massive shock. I think our players are in for a bigger shock, and I think our fans are already in shock. 

Expand  

Interesting post. I'm concerned.

  • Like 4
Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted
  On 07/11/2022 at 22:48, CB Fry said:

Its interesting to read this an other write ups on Jones.

There seems to be a belief amongst some on here that Jones is some hipster exciting manager but everything I am seeing suggests he us as old school cloggy as they come.

There's people on here raving and getting excited about Jones because "at least he's not Sean Dyche".

But from what I can see, he is Sean Dyche. That's exactly what he is.

 

Expand  

the budget Dyche

  • Like 2
  • Sad 1
austsaint

austsaint

Posted
Posted
  On 07/11/2022 at 22:39, Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd said:

Luton are my second team. I watch them as much as I watch Saints. There's no doubt that Jones has done a great job at Luton, but this is his level. His football is poor. He's a Dave Bassett, Neil Warnock kind of manager. Luton work hard but they're not great to watch. Despite his relative success, I really don't like him at all. He's a badge kissing, chest thumping moron with a bit of an ego. He jumped ship at the first opportunity when he went to Stoke and then came back with his tail between his legs. A lot of Luton fans still dislike him for that. I'd say a lot of his success is actually down to the fans being the 12th man and making Kenilworth Road a bit intimidating. It's a small noisy ground, the fans get behind the team and he plays up to that.
Tactically, he's nothing special and I don't see him being able to hack it at Premiership level with a big ground full of fans who don't really get behind the team. No disrespect, but our fans aren't exactly the noisiest bunch and St. Mary's isn't somewhere that intimidates opposing teams. 

This is a bizarre decision as spit and sawdust managers like Jones never last in the top flight. They're not about playing nice attractive football. It's about all being physical and let's be honest, Saint's aren't exactly a physical team. 

I think he'll be out of his depth and is in for a massive shock. I think our players are in for a bigger shock, and I think our fans are already in shock. 

Expand  

A convincing and troubling background post Sidney - and, in my eyes you have more credibility than those who are writing Jones up as a hidden gem appointment.     FFS, send a copy of this to SR and Semmens, just in case it was him who has unearthed this underwhelming candidate.

  • Like 3
OttawaSaint

OttawaSaint

Posted
Posted

I'd like to be pragmatic like some but this is so obviously going to be an utter train wreck. 

Hopefully it was leaked on purpose so that SR get an idea of fan opinion but IMO this is guaranteeing relegation and I'd be surprised if ever bounced back. 

It's critical SR get this right. I'd be happier if they even burned a couple of weeks of the WC break just to make sure we got the right man in place. No rush, our club's future depends on it.

  • Like 8
  • Confused 1
Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted
  On 07/11/2022 at 23:02, moonraker said:

I appreciate times have changed, and modern day footballer egos can be off the scale, but we have a history of appointing managers with no top level experience and many of them turned out to be good.  Mcmenamy, Nicholl, Poch, even Ted Bates.  The difference now and my big worry is there is no time in the modern game for managers to develop their own team.  

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and some without top level experience,  like Branfoot, Luggy Gray and Wigley, that didn't

  • Like 1
LGTL

LGTL

Posted
Posted

This could seriously be the end of us as a top flight team for many years to come. The Championship is littered with fuck ups like us. 

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davefizzy14

davefizzy14

Posted
Posted (edited)

I'm still hoping that we have a list of candidates and Jones is just one of the names on the list. We should be going all out for a high calibre manager something which will excite the whole fan base. Poch would be the dream choice. Gallardo, Benitez, Gerrard e.t.c.

Edited by davefizzy14
  • Like 2
West end Saints

West end Saints

Posted
Posted
  On 07/11/2022 at 23:30, davefizzy14 said:

I'm still hoping that we have a list of candidates and Jones is just one of the names on the list. We should be going all out for a high calibre manager something which will excite the whole fan base. Gallardo, Benitez, Gerrard e.t.c.

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Gerrard wouldn't excite the whole fan base. 

Benitez hasn't been great for about 10 years (not checked dates, but must be about that). 

Gallardo sounds great manager, but is being linked with top European sides, and apparently doesn't speak English. 

I certainly didn't have a wow feeling but who would be at all realistic and would excite all (or most) fans? 

I honestly don't know. Maybe Frank? 

Certainly not Dyche, Gerrard, Parker. 

Poch would... I can dream for now! 

  • Like 2
verlaine1979

verlaine1979

Posted
Posted

When clubs in the mix around us are hiring managers with UEFA cup winning pedigree and we're about to gamble on someone who got Luton to 8th in the Championship by lumping it up to the big man, you do have to wonder if it's time for cool heads to prevail and have a quick rethink.

  • Like 4
OttawaSaint

OttawaSaint

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 07/11/2022 at 23:27, LGTL said:

This could seriously be the end of us as a top flight team for many years to come. The Championship is littered with fuck ups like us. 

Expand  

Surely SR can see this. Their investment will tank if relegated. Cheaping out by a few million $$$ now could cost them dearly.

It's like an F1 team needing to get a certain race position to stay in F1 and then just chucking on old worn out tires and the cheapest petrol and hoping they sputter over the line. 

Edited by OttawaSaint
Streaky

Streaky

Posted
Posted
  On 07/11/2022 at 22:59, Dragon_man said:

Wonder what the players feel? Hard to see JWP thinking 'here's someone who can really develop my game through his top flight experience of working with real talent'

Expand  

Jwp should be thinking I hope the new gaffer doesn't drop me as I've been shit all season.

  • Like 1
Ralph Fastenbüttl

Ralph Fastenbüttl

Posted
Posted
  On 07/11/2022 at 23:49, OttawaSaint said:

Surely SR can see this. Their investment will tank if relegated. Cheaping out by a few million $$$ now could cost them dearly.

It's like an F1 team needing to get a certain race position to stay in F1 and then just chucking on old worn out tires and the cheapest petrol and hoping they sputter over the line. 

Expand  

Of course - they can clearly see all of it. But they have obviously arrived at a wildly different conclusion to you. 

They've put all their professional resources into choosing a manager and have decided he's the fella. And you've decided he's not based on... erm, I dunno, you tell me - his boring name, some comments on a forum and a couple of GIFs? Time will tell who was right, I guess.

  • Like 3
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OttawaSaint

OttawaSaint

Posted
Posted
  On 08/11/2022 at 00:40, Ralph Fastenbüttl said:

Of course - they can clearly see all of it. But they have obviously arrived at a wildly different conclusion to you. 

They've put all their professional resources into choosing a manager and have decided he's the fella. And you've decided he's not based on... erm, I dunno, you tell me - his boring name, some comments on a forum and a couple of GIFs? Time will tell who was right, I guess.

Expand  

If they appoint him then I guess we will. 

  • Like 2
Tamesaint

Tamesaint

Posted
Posted

I am surprised that nobody on here has mentioned one of the most important criteria when choosing a new manager.

Will he buy us all a pint like Ralf did when he joined?

  • Like 1
Nolan

Nolan

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 07/11/2022 at 22:39, Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd said:

Luton are my second team. I watch them as much as I watch Saints. There's no doubt that Jones has done a great job at Luton, but this is his level. His football is poor. He's a Dave Bassett, Neil Warnock kind of manager. Luton work hard but they're not great to watch. Despite his relative success, I really don't like him at all. He's a badge kissing, chest thumping moron with a bit of an ego. He jumped ship at the first opportunity when he went to Stoke and then came back with his tail between his legs. A lot of Luton fans still dislike him for that. I'd say a lot of his success is actually down to the fans being the 12th man and making Kenilworth Road a bit intimidating. It's a small noisy ground, the fans get behind the team and he plays up to that.
Tactically, he's nothing special and I don't see him being able to hack it at Premiership level with a big ground full of fans who don't really get behind the team. No disrespect, but our fans aren't exactly the noisiest bunch and St. Mary's isn't somewhere that intimidates opposing teams. 

This is a bizarre decision as spit and sawdust managers like Jones never last in the top flight. They're not about playing nice attractive football. It's about all being physical and let's be honest, Saint's aren't exactly a physical team. 

I think he'll be out of his depth and is in for a massive shock. I think our players are in for a bigger shock, and I think our fans are already in shock. 

Expand  

Just to give you four different responses when someone re-posted this to the Luton Outlaws board

  • "It begs the question…….why is Luton his second team when he/she is so ####in critical of us ? Twat"
     
    "To be fair our football in the lower divisions was better to watch but, ironically often got outbossed by some physical teams which is possibly why we didn't win L2 and didn't beat any of our close promotion rivals in L1. Now we've added steel we're classed as direct and aggressive! But he's also getting the best out of our squad which, on paper, is nowhere near 8th in the Championship, so he is playing a style that currently works with our squad. And for that reason alone he has demonstrated tactical knowhow in terms of getting the best out of players."
     
    "Stuff about tactics etc is nonsense. When we demolished Leagues Two and One the football was as sexy as anything. Diamond midfield, striker Elliott Lee in midfield, winger Shinnie as deep lying playmaker, marauding full backs the main attacking threat. Now we're playing against technically superior opposition most weeks so our relative tactical advantage is intelligent pressing and aggressive quick attacks."
     
    "Most of that is a load of sh1t...We've won 2 homes games all season and 5 away for starters. I tend to agree with the view that the style of football reflects the squad, budget, and appropriate tactics for where we are. We played differently in Lg1 and Lg2."
Edited by Nolan
  • Like 4
CB Fry

CB Fry

Posted
Posted
  On 08/11/2022 at 00:40, Ralph Fastenbüttl said:

Of course - they can clearly see all of it. But they have obviously arrived at a wildly different conclusion to you. 

They've put all their professional resources into choosing a manager and have decided he's the fella. And you've decided he's not based on... erm, I dunno, you tell me - his boring name, some comments on a forum and a couple of GIFs? Time will tell who was right, I guess.

Expand  

They put "all of their professional resources" into deciding to not buy a striker during the summer transfer window.

A decision a lot of people said was crazy and those people are right.

I'm not sure when the club leadership became infallible because I don't see it.

  • Like 1
Fitzhugh Fella

Fitzhugh Fella

Posted
Posted
  On 07/11/2022 at 21:39, Saint Garrett said:

What’s the issue with him being religious? Have I missed something? I’ve seen a few people mention being religious as a big issue? 

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There’s nothing wrong with him being religious. But after reading this article would you be happy with a manager who consults God on footballing matters?

https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/christianity-football-faith-nathan-jones-luton-town-137163

  • Sad 1
Sheaf Saint

Sheaf Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 07/11/2022 at 23:30, davefizzy14 said:

I'm still hoping that we have a list of candidates and Jones is just one of the names on the list. We should be going all out for a high calibre manager something which will excite the whole fan base. Poch would be the dream choice. Gallardo, Benitez, Gerrard e.t.c.

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Gerrard? Are you serious?

He's an appalling manager who has only been given jobs purely because of his reputation as a player. He was a hopeless failure with Villa and was rightly sacked. What on Earth makes you think he would be decent for us? 

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