Saints 1-2 Everton - Match Thread

[jabei]

13 hours ago, obelisk said:

I wonder how different things might have been if Adams hadn't missed a goal line sitter against Wolves and fluffed another nailed on chance today just before Everton's 2nd. Saints can't afford to throw away those sort of opportunities.

Totally different. We would likely have 6 more points and Ralph would be touted to take over from Klopp soon as general performance levels come a long way below results when assessing a manager. Small margins between success and failure. 

[The Cat]

2 hours ago, jimmysaint7 said:

I'm sorry but amn was absolute pony yesterday needs to improve massively on that showing 

He was crap and it goes to show that people on here banging on about him not being picked were wrong. 

He gave the ball away countless times, got booked early on for a silly, needless tackle and was partially responsible for their second goal. Probably the only person on the pitch who covered less ground than Andre Marriner.

Diallo would surely have done better than him yesterday.

[Roo1976]

13 hours ago, richardc said:

I think JWP is fucking woeful fullstop at the moment

Well hes not doing his leadership bit on the pitch and galvanizing things, and making his presents felt. No driving force or direction by passing sideways and back and purely hoping one of his set pieces will suffice to keep him in the race to the world cup.Sadly not going to happen IMO, Maddison if his form continues will just about get there.

[saintant]

Only seen highlights but the sense I got was that we sorely missed Salisu at the back. Not sure why he didn't play as haven't seen anything to say he wasn't fit. If he was fit then it's another strange decision from Ralph because you do not break up a centre back pairing that is developing and growing a strong partnership. Their goals came, in part, from poor defending in the air in our box and ABK alongside Salisu have been solid in that respect.

Edited 2 October, 2022 by saintant

[Harry_SFC]

1 minute ago, Roo1976 said:

Well hes not doing his leadership bit on the pitch and galvanizing things, and making his presents felt. No driving force or direction by passing sideways and back and purely hoping one of his set pieces will suffice to keep him in the race to the world cup.Sadly not going to happen IMO, Maddison if his form continues will just about get there.

JWP has never been captain material. He never shouts at players, encourages, gets in the refs ear, drives the team forward. 

[S-Clarke]

The reason I don't think there will be a change 'yet', is because of the comments made by Semmens (I think last season). This has always stuck with me -

''For us it's not about where we finish or how many points we get, it's about how well we are developing players and providing a pathway'' 

So for as long as the manager in charge picks the players with potential resale value and provides them a platform to develop, then he's doing the job he's there for. The change will come when we start to see a stagnation in player development, which will lead to us in a proper relegation battle and a potential risk to the model - which we are starting to see...so if it carries on then come the world cup they may think it's time.

Edited 2 October, 2022 by S-Clarke

[AlexLaw76]

was there injury concerns with Perraud and Djenepo?  Not sure why we picked a midget at LB

[Harry_SFC]

1 minute ago, saintant said:

Only seen highlights but the sense I got was that we sorely missed Salisu at the back. Not sure why he didn't play as haven't seen anything to say he wasn't fit. If he was fit then it's another strange decision from Ralph because you do not break up a centre back pairing that is developing and growing a strong partnership. Their goals came, in part, from poor defending in the air in our box and ABK alongside Salisu have been solid in that aspect.

Yep, he played for Ghana mid week but he's a centre back at the end of the day, he can manage two games in a week I'm sure. Caleta-Car is new to the league so you've gotta cut him some slack but he's nowhere near Salisu's level yet.

[saintant]

1 minute ago, S-Clarke said:

The reason I don't think there will be a change 'yet', is because of the comments made by Semmens (I think last season). This have always stuck with me -

''For us it's not about where we finish or how many points we get, it's about how well we are developing players and providing a pathway'' 

So for as long as the manager in charge picks the players with potential resale value and provides them a platform to develop, then he's doing the job he's there for. The change will come when we start to see a stagnation in player development, which will lead to us in a proper relegation battle and a potential risk to the model - which we are starting to see...so if it carries on then come the world cup they may think it's time.

To be honest that statement from Semmens sums up the fact that he is not as clever as he thinks he is. You might develop players, provide a pathway and make a few bob selling one or two on but will lose that plus millions more if you get relegated from the Premier league and it's then a hard slog to get back up there. To say for us it's not where we finish is a crazy comment from someone in his position.

[badgerx16]

4 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

Yep, he played for Ghana mid week but he's a centre back at the end of the day, he can manage two games in a week I'm sure. Caleta-Car is new to the league so you've gotta cut him some slack but he's nowhere near Salisu's level yet.

Caleta-Car is an experienced player, who made over 100 appearances for Marseille, and an established international, who was linked with Liverpool last summer. Every player has to make his debut for a new club at some point.

[alehouseboys]

6 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

The reason I don't think there will be a change 'yet', is because of the comments made by Semmens (I think last season). This has always stuck with me -

''For us it's not about where we finish or how many points we get, it's about how well we are developing players and providing a pathway'' 

So for as long as the manager in charge picks the players with potential resale value and provides them a platform to develop, then he's doing the job he's there for. The change will come when we start to see a stagnation in player development, which will lead to us in a proper relegation battle and a potential risk to the model - which we are starting to see...so if it carries on then come the world cup they may think it's time.

How many fans of other clubs would just accept that? I'm onboard with getting the best young players to this club with a view to developing them and accept they'll then move on for big bucks, but I still want my team to go out to win and finish as high in every competition possible, that's surely what it's about for fans.

Maybe that's why SR chose SFC for this model as, tbh, a large section of our support is probably the most passive and polite set of fans in the country, and they may feel they can handle and bat off any protesting types fairly easily. We've already seen how they've targeted the slightly more rowdy areas hooking out home fans over away fans/corps usually behaving worse.

Time for Ralph to go now, this needs a shake up - new fella in after City for me.

[Harry_SFC]

11 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Caleta-Car is an experienced player, who made over 100 appearances for Marseille, and an established international, who was linked with Liverpool last summer. Every player has to make his debut for a new club at some point.

I get that, but the only part of our team that has been functioning properly are the centre backs. Unless Salisu wasn't fit enough to play (no indication he wasn't) then I don't see why you would change that.

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, Harry_SFC said:

I get that, but the only part of our team that has been functioning properly are the centre backs. Unless Salisu wasn't fit enough to play (no indication he wasn't) then I don't see why you would change that.

really?  we still need to score twice to have a chance of any points.

[saintant]

9 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

really?  we still need to score twice to have a chance of any points.

The previous defeats were 1-0 and I think the centre back pairing of Salisu and ABK hasn't done a lot wrong. It was a mistake to break up the partnership. The time to do that is when they look shaky and full of mistakes. That was not the case so they should have been picked together again yesterday.

[alehouseboys]

7 minutes ago, saintant said:

The previous defeats were 1-0 and I think the centre back pairing of Salisu and ABK hasn't done a lot wrong. It was a mistake to break up the partnership. The time to do that is when they look shaky and full of mistakes. That was not the case so they should have been picked together again yesterday.

A cynic might suggest they may cash in on ABK in Jan and they need game time for CC before the window.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

3 minutes ago, alehouseboys said:

A cynic might suggest they may cash in on ABK in Jan and they need game time for CC before the window.

I think it's more likely that Salisu leaves in January given his contract situation 

[saintant]

3 minutes ago, alehouseboys said:

A cynic might suggest they may cash in on ABK in Jan and they need game time for CC before the window.

It's a fair point but wouldn't you then play Salisu alongside CC and leave out ABK to protect him from the possibility of a bad injury?

[alehouseboys]

1 minute ago, saintant said:

It's a fair point but wouldn't you then play Salisu alongside CC and leave out ABK to protect him from the possibility of a bad injury?

Absolutely not, I agree with you, I can't understand why he changed it unless there was a niggling injury. But he was still on the bench so a head-scratcher.

[bugenhagen]

5 minutes ago, alehouseboys said:

Absolutely not, I agree with you, I can't understand why he changed it unless there was a niggling injury. But he was still on the bench so a head-scratcher.

For me, this happens a lot in today's fotball. As John Carew once said in an interview: why do supporters not understand that you can be fit for the bench, but not fit enough to start? Now that is a head scratcher 

I am disappointed that Salisu didn't start, but I do not think it is because Ralf is clueless. Probably because someone in the medical department asked him. As Klopp said in yesterdays interview, he was asked to not start two or three players, so he didn't.

Ralph out btw

[S-Clarke]

16 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

I think it's more likely that Salisu leaves in January given his contract situation 

Agreed, I think he's all but gone (maybe not January, but in the summer).

Ditto KWP - some sell on there and he will have takers. The club will see it as we already have the replacements in the building in Tino and DCC, so we don't need to spend fortunes replacing them.

[AlexLaw76]

4 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Agreed, I think he's all but gone (maybe not January, but in the summer).

Ditto KWP - some sell on there and he will have takers. The club will see it as we already have the replacements in the building in Tino and DCC, so we don't need to spend fortunes replacing them.

Nicely placed for our apparent managed decline.  JwP, Salisu, KwP, ABK, Adams, DCC, Lavia, Aribo and probably S.Armstrong would fetch a tidy sum when relegated.

 

Edited 2 October, 2022 by AlexLaw76

[Chez]

3 hours ago, Toussaint said:

To be fair to him, I was at the game and I thought his corners were excellent, but we have no one to attack them, we continue to sign small players and always seem outnumbered in the box. Che can win a header in a battle, but he can’t beat a cb to a header and direct the ball, he’s just not tall enough. I find it hard to single out JWP for criticism when we have the weakest midfield, without Romeu, in the premier league. 

We really miss Ings winning those near post headers from corners. He scored a few goals getting in front of opponents and turning JWPs corners into something good. You don't have to big, but your movement and desire has to be there. 

Agree with you about the midfield. Weak as piss. 

[saintant]

19 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Agreed, I think he's all but gone (maybe not January, but in the summer).

Ditto KWP - some sell on there and he will have takers. The club will see it as we already have the replacements in the building in Tino and DCC, so we don't need to spend fortunes replacing them.

But surely then you have lost your decent back up players.

[Toadhall Saint]

Had the chances to win it but didn’t finish. 

[david in sweden]

1 hour ago, Harry_SFC said:

JWP has never been captain material. He never shouts at players, encourages, gets in the refs ear, drives the team forward. 

You don't pick a captain by the loudest voice.  JWP  has been with the club for the better part of 20 years, is the best Academy product 

the club has produced in modern times.  He has a better Prem. playing record than £100 million signing like Jack Grealish, (and he doesn't 

cry Mummy every time he is fouled),  and would look ridiculous in a head band. 

The Prem. stats, show that he covers more ground than any other Prem. player (by a mile), and pops up all over the pitch during games,

and seemingly has the respect of team mates, and is a role-model for many younger players, and DAJFU by example and not by volume.

 

Of course all that publicity about his free-kick prowess isn't just media, he still has a few years to overtake Beckhams career record, and still takes

a pretty mean penalty, and it will take a few years for any other player to even match his present free-kick stats. 

If you want a loud-mouth idiot to captain a team, maybe try watching rugby instead. 

 

[Chez]

16 minutes ago, david in sweden said:

You don't pick a captain by the loudest voice.  JWP  has been with the club for the better part of 20 years, is the best Academy product 

the club has produced in modern times.  He has a better Prem. playing record than £100 million signing like Jack Grealish, (and he doesn't 

cry Mummy every time he is fouled),  and would look ridiculous in a head band. 

The Prem. stats, show that he covers more ground than any other Prem. player (by a mile), and pops up all over the pitch during games,

and seemingly has the respect of team mates, and is a role-model for many younger players, and DAJFU by example and not by volume.

 

Of course all that publicity about his free-kick prowess isn't just media, he still has a few years to overtake Beckhams career record, and still takes

a pretty mean penalty, and it will take a few years for any other player to even match his present free-kick stats. 

If you want a loud-mouth idiot to captain a team, maybe try watching rugby instead. 

 

never understand why people care so much about who is captain in football. They do the coin toss, they lift the trophy. That's about it.  Make KWP, Adams, BK or Carleta-Car skipper and what changes? Fuck all.

 

[Chez]

29 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

Had the chances to win it but didn’t finish. 

This is a huge problem. Ings papered over the cracks with his ludicrously high goals to shots ratio. We haven't created a huge amount of chances for a few years, but if you have a striker that scores out of nothing or takes that one chance, you can play pretty poorly and get away with it. Adams and Armstrong aren't clinical enough.

I thought Armstrong did well when he came on, adding real impetus into our attacks, but when that one great chance came his way, he fluffed it. Adams worked hard as always, but again, when that chance came, he didn't score.

[cloggy saint]

What Chez said. Christ, people where even discussing who should be vice captain not long ago 😮

Edited 2 October, 2022 by cloggy saint

[SaintZamboni]

51 minutes ago, david in sweden said:

You don't pick a captain by the loudest voice.  JWP  has been with the club for the better part of 20 years, is the best Academy product 

the club has produced in modern times.  He has a better Prem. playing record than £100 million signing like Jack Grealish, (and he doesn't 

cry Mummy every time he is fouled),  and would look ridiculous in a head band. 

The Prem. stats, show that he covers more ground than any other Prem. player (by a mile), and pops up all over the pitch during games,

and seemingly has the respect of team mates, and is a role-model for many younger players, and DAJFU by example and not by volume.

 

Of course all that publicity about his free-kick prowess isn't just media, he still has a few years to overtake Beckhams career record, and still takes

a pretty mean penalty, and it will take a few years for any other player to even match his present free-kick stats. 

If you want a loud-mouth idiot to captain a team, maybe try watching rugby instead. 

 

Up until the last comment I agreed with you. Rugby players aren’t loud mouth morons anymore than footballers or fans

[Toussaint]

3 hours ago, jabei said:

BK, MN, CC and Aribo look massive to me. Every single JWP corner yesterday, as every other game, went straight to a defender. When Redmond took a few last season, they looked infinitely more dangerous. 

The two centre backs are big, the other two are not by current midfield standards, I was surprised how unimposing AMN looked in the flesh.
 

I don’t know what anyone expects from his corners, as for going straight to a defender, what is he to do, if we are static and have no attacking aerial threat, The defender is always going to be first to the ball. The reality is, is that his corners are wasted on our donkeys. So if anyone said we should start taking short corners or something else other than getting into the supposed danger area, I think that would be a different argument with some merit to it. 

Edited 2 October, 2022 by Toussaint

[S-Clarke]

1 hour ago, Chez said:

This is a huge problem. Ings papered over the cracks with his ludicrously high goals to shots ratio. We haven't created a huge amount of chances for a few years, but if you have a striker that scores out of nothing or takes that one chance, you can play pretty poorly and get away with it. Adams and Armstrong aren't clinical enough.

I thought Armstrong did well when he came on, adding real impetus into our attacks, but when that one great chance came his way, he fluffed it. Adams worked hard as always, but again, when that chance came, he didn't score.

This in a nutshell really.

Our best periods in the last 3 years have coincided with Broja or Ings hitting form, our good form has never coincided with Adams or Armstrong going on runs as they're incapable of doing so.

It's frustrating to be honest, it feels like the failure to bring in that game changing attacker is going to undermine and render all the other improvements pointless.

[JRM]

4 hours ago, The Cat said:

He was crap and it goes to show that people on here banging on about him not being picked were wrong. 

He gave the ball away countless times, got booked early on for a silly, needless tackle and was partially responsible for their second goal. Probably the only person on the pitch who covered less ground than Andre Marriner.

Diallo would surely have done better than him yesterday.

Makes you wonder what we were hoping for when we signed him? Sounds like he didn't have a great year last season either 

[The Cat]

3 hours ago, Chez said:

We really miss Ings winning those near post headers from corners. He scored a few goals getting in front of opponents and turning JWPs corners into something good. You don't have to big, but your movement and desire has to be there. 

Agree with you about the midfield. Weak as piss. 

Bednarek used to win those headers too, so no reason someone else can't.

[The Cat]

8 minutes ago, JRM said:

Makes you wonder what we were hoping for when we signed him? Sounds like he didn't have a great year last season either 

Probably signed him to train him back to fitness so he can make a difference in the future but sadly Lavia's injury and Diallo's poor performances have meant we've had to chuck him in earlier than expected.

[JRM]

4 minutes ago, The Cat said:

Probably signed him to train him back to fitness so he can make a difference in the future but sadly Lavia's injury and Diallo's poor performances have meant we've had to chuck him in earlier than expected.

Yeah bit of a gamble, it's only a 1 year loan so could have done with him not needing such a long time to get up to speed 

[SNSUN]

4 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Nicely placed for our apparent managed decline.  JwP, Salisu, KwP, ABK, Adams, DCC, Lavia, Aribo and probably S.Armstrong would fetch a tidy sum when relegated.

 

...and Tino, and possibly Bazunu too. I wouldn't be surprised if the likes of Edozie and Mara had takers too. The state of our potential Championship team doesn't bear thinking about, but we'd probably have a squad (without any signings of course) of:

McCarthy/Lis,

Payne,

Stephens/Simeu/Lyanco/,

Perraud/Larios/Small,

Diallo/Smallbone/Chauke/Watts,

Tella/Djenepo/Edwards/,

Armstrong/N'Lundulu/Ballard/Pearce.

 

Obviously there'd be signings and possibly one or two of the ones we've suggested leaving will still be here but it still looks weak. We need change to stay up and the manager is the one that has to go.

[spyinthesky]

As I am too pissed off to watch MOTD when we lose, was any mention about the foul given against KWP which led to the equalising goal.

Myself and those around me thought it should have been a free kick to us and I remember thinking I bet they score from a Refs poor decision, and they did!!

[spyinthesky]

5 minutes ago, SNSUN said:

...and Tino, and possibly Bazunu too. I wouldn't be surprised if the likes of Edozie and Mara had takers too. The state of our potential Championship team doesn't bear thinking about, but we'd probably have a squad (without any signings of course) of:

McCarthy/Lis,

Payne,

Stephens/Simeu/Lyanco/,

Perraud/Larios/Small,

Diallo/Smallbone/Chauke/Watts,

Tella/Djenepo/Edwards/,

Armstrong/N'Lundulu/Ballard/Pearce.

 

Obviously there'd be signings and possibly one or two of the ones we've suggested leaving will still be here but it still looks weak. We need change to stay up and the manager is the one that has to go.

This side reminds me of the time we had to play with a load of youngsters in the Championship.
Technically good players like Lallana and Schniederlin etc but not able to cope with the muscularity and experience of other teams.

 

[trousers]

3 minutes ago, spyinthesky said:

As I am too pissed off to watch MOTD when we lose, was any mention about the foul given against KWP which led to the equalising goal.

Myself and those around me thought it should have been a free kick to us and I remember thinking I bet they score from a Refs poor decision, and they did!!

Nope, zero analysis on the goals IIRC. In fact, I don't think they even commented on Saints performance at all, was all about Everton and how resilient Lampard has made them this season 

Edited 2 October, 2022 by trousers

[Professor]

Every defeat is followed by Hassenhuttl telling the media how well we played and how positive it was, as if we hadn't lost.  THis one being at home was even more unforegiveable.  

Ive no doubt the forward players, I hesitate to cal;l them strikers as they rarely strike, I've no dounbt they have shooting practice on the training ground.  More practice isnt the answer.  Getting the whole team to play faster and harder with a fresh approach to tactics is how to achive an improvement.  To do that, we need to change the manager for someone who will shake this squad up and get tem playing at Premier League level. If Eddie howe or Brendan Rodgers (wash my mouth out) is sacked, lets have one of them!  No need to go looking for some foreigner who  doesnt know the game in this country.

[The Kraken]

8 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Letting Romeu leave is yet another weird transfer in our recent history

It’s dopey. There’s an argument that the club didn’t want to stand in his way to play in La Liga, which may be the case. But from a footballing pov he should’ve been around to support and nurture Lavia. Lavia was never going to play 38 games, he’s 18 playing in the most combative position on the pitch. We deliberately weakened ourselves by letting him go, he would have been absolutely ideal to play a support role.

[S-Clarke]

7 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

It’s dopey. There’s an argument that the club didn’t want to stand in his way to play in La Liga, which may be the case. But from a footballing pov he should’ve been around to support and nurture Lavia. Lavia was never going to play 38 games, he’s 18 playing in the most combative position on the pitch. We deliberately weakened ourselves by letting him go, he would have been absolutely ideal to play a support role.

This is a transfer which looks more baffling by the day. Most agreed last season that we had no one who could come in and replace Romeu if he drops his level or he's injured etc. So we got in Lavia as a young player to develop underneath him.

But to then sell Romeu we've put ourselves in exactly the same problem position as last season, with just one true 'destructive' CM in the team. Which has been made even worse because he's now injured, which will happen to young players as they get used to playing football regular. Absolutley insane risk to take to be honest.

We had a really good start to the window, but the final few weeks of it were a little shambolic to say the least and it's undone all the good work really.

Edited 2 October, 2022 by S-Clarke

[Lighthouse]

Romeu was crap in the last third of last season, I’ve no idea why people are wishing he was still here. Whether AMN turns out to be any better in the long term remains to be seen.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

31 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

It’s dopey. There’s an argument that the club didn’t want to stand in his way to play in La Liga, which may be the case. But from a footballing pov he should’ve been around to support and nurture Lavia. Lavia was never going to play 38 games, he’s 18 playing in the most combative position on the pitch. We deliberately weakened ourselves by letting him go, he would have been absolutely ideal to play a support role.

 

24 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

This is a transfer which looks more baffling by the day. Most agreed last season that we had no one who could come in and replace Romeu if he drops his level or he's injured etc. So we got in Lavia as a young player to develop underneath him.

But to then sell Romeu we've put ourselves in exactly the same problem position as last season, with just one true 'destructive' CM in the team. Which has been made even worse because he's now injured, which will happen to young players as they get used to playing football regular. Absolutley insane risk to take to be honest.

We had a really good start to the window, but the final few weeks of it were a little shambolic to say the least and it's undone all the good work really.

Towards the end of the window I had us down as a high 6 out of 10, tipping over into a 7 with a very late arrival of a striker to come. The club, and everyone else, knew one was required. The club were extremely confident a signing would be made. We have a modern recruitment dpeartment where a number of targets are assessed. For every one of those deals to fall through outmatching our recruitment's abilities was a big failure. Yes, we got Mara in, but he was never billed as a combined Broja & Long replacement.

Getting shot of Romeu reminded me more of the penny pinching we-know-best approach of the Lowe era. Overreliance (and overhype) on the young players coming in , combined with cutting down on that wage bill flying in the face of competent squad management. A half decent management team could have arranged a transition between the two over the coming season. There have been games when I'd have them both starting. Instead, you can see that Lavia was offered a starting spot right away, and that information was used to push Romeu out of the door to other pastures.

It's unfortunate that Lavia is injuried. It's incompetence to not have contingencies in place. It's not as though we all couldn't see how important Romeu's role and presence in the team had been. We could also all see that Diallo simply wasn't that replacement. We can only hope AMN steps up, but it's not been a good start. And it's a situation that could have been completely avoided. It was Romeu's new club's connections with the Man City group that got it over the line in the end. We couldn't wait to cut that wage bill.

As S-Clarke said, we had a good start to the window. Then chose to chuck that by not recruiting a player for the key postion required and offloading a key first team player, with no real back up in place. A transfer window of a high 6/ low 7 rapidly falls away to a high 4/ low 5, despite all the good work that has been done.

I can imagine Ralph using the lack of a striker, Lavia's injury and Romeu's departure in discussions. He will argue that we are conceding fewer per game this season than last, and that our win percentage is the same. He will point to the personal errors that have led to so many of the goals. Relying on players without a clinical finish he could argue, along with those errors, is what is costing us in a tactic where goals are going ot be harder to come by, than in RalphBall v1.0.

But to do that is to argue against a lot of other, more miserable stats.

[Roo1976]

8 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

really?  we still need to score twice to have a chance of any points.

and he missed a sitter to be fair right at the end........................

[S-Clarke]

1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

Romeu was crap in the last third of last season, I’ve no idea why people are wishing he was still here. Whether AMN turns out to be any better in the long term remains to be seen.

Romeu was declining for sure, but he was still an able player if required and added steal to the middle of the park. Whilst we saw Lavia as the 'modern' replacement, it really should have been a case of playing him with Romeu for a year and not selling ourselves short.

I can somewhat understand the personal side of it in terms of the club not wanting to stand in the way of his return home, but sometimes I think we need to be a bit more selfish and think about our own needs rather than everyone else's. Nice guys always finish last and all that.

[Lighthouse]

13 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Romeu was declining for sure, but he was still an able player if required and added steal to the middle of the park. Whilst we saw Lavia as the 'modern' replacement, it really should have been a case of playing him with Romeu for a year and not selling ourselves short.

I can somewhat understand the personal side of it in terms of the club not wanting to stand in the way of his return home, but sometimes I think we need to be a bit more selfish and think about our own needs rather than everyone else's. Nice guys always finish last and all that.

The only reason we're having this conversation is because Lavia is injured AND AMN has started much worse/slower than we'd hoped. Without both of those two things happening simultaneously, nobody gives the tiniest sh*t about selling Romeu. It's just unfortunate timing, if in three weeks both his replacements are fit and in form it becomes a moot point.

Our transfer strategy was to replace an under-performing 31 year old with a talented Man City teenager and a 25 year old with 132 Arsenal apps. There's nothing wrong with that, this is just Boufal syndrome - His rating goes shooting up when he's not in the team.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

14 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

The only reason we're having this conversation is because Lavia is injured AND AMN has started much worse/slower than we'd hoped. Without both of those two things happening simultaneously, nobody gives the tiniest sh*t about selling Romeu. It's just unfortunate timing, if in three weeks both his replacements are fit and in form it becomes a moot point.

Our transfer strategy was to replace an under-performing 31 year old with a talented Man City teenager and a 25 year old with 132 Arsenal apps. There's nothing wrong with that, this is just Boufal syndrome - His rating goes shooting up when he's not in the team.

I'd point out that:-

- The entire team was underperforming after RalphBall v1 got found out (and quite a lot of the time around that), so far from being just Romeu.
- Romeu was one of the players that, even when under performing, we really missed, with performances slumping even more without him (for the most part)
- That his position/ role in the team was a key one, while several other positions contained interchangeable players.
- It was also a key postion in all versions of RalphBall, to counter the press breaking down / shielding our defence.
- Diallo clearly wasn't able to cover in this position, and it was not an uncommon view that some cover in this postion was really needed.
- Some of his departure thread will mention his importance. So it's not a case of hindsight, as one of simple contingency planning the club should be capable of.
- Had Lavia impressed, made the first team on merit then great. Even better if he was super fit and played lots of games. But at that age, and in the competitions we are in, having Romeu as a sub (Ralph keen on having the 5), as a replacement when resting developing or tired young players, or as a supporitng player on other competitions would still have made plenty of sense.
- I hope AMN comes good. And in that postion. But it was an uneccesary risk, when we had a player on our books in that role already.
 

Right, off to start my rant about how Romeu was our best ever player and the Saints board should be prosecuted for forcing out our star player. 🙂

[qwertyell]

2 hours ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

It's unfortunate that Lavia is injuried. It's incompetence to not have contingencies in place. It's not as though we all couldn't see how important Romeu's role and presence in the team had been. We could also all see that Diallo simply wasn't that replacement. We can only hope AMN steps up, but it's not been a good start.

Do people not watch any other matches apart from Saints'?

Maitland-Niles has never been a holding midfielder in the Romeu mold. Never will be. It's bizarre that so many seem to think he's come in to do that role. 

If he's most like anyone, it's Diallo - with all the same weaknesses. Fine in a three, with someone else holding the fort so he can run forward. But he's not breaking up play, winning tackles, putting his body on the line to defend. Not his game at all.

He's just cheap cover we brought in to fill a couple of positions in a pinch, in spite of not being special in any of them. If he's starting more than 10 matches this season, something's gone terribly wrong.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

58 minutes ago, qwertyell said:

Do people not watch any other matches apart from Saints'?

Maitland-Niles has never been a holding midfielder in the Romeu mold. Never will be. It's bizarre that so many seem to think he's come in to do that role. 

If he's most like anyone, it's Diallo - with all the same weaknesses. Fine in a three, with someone else holding the fort so he can run forward. But he's not breaking up play, winning tackles, putting his body on the line to defend. Not his game at all.

He's just cheap cover we brought in to fill a couple of positions in a pinch, in spite of not being special in any of them. If he's starting more than 10 matches this season, something's gone terribly wrong.

I do agree. By "step up" I was meaning that I hoped his experience in a number of roles would help him fill a gap here. While I've not seen loads of his Arsenal games, I don't recall him in a Romeu role. Hopefully, he's got the all round game to do a job there.