Saints 1-2 Everton - Match Thread

[obelisk]

I wonder how different things might have been if Adams hadn't missed a goal line sitter against Wolves and fluffed another nailed on chance today just before Everton's 2nd. Saints can't afford to throw away those sort of opportunities.

[richardc]

52 minutes ago, Saints foreva said:

One thing I'll add is JWPs corners are fucking woeful. 

I think JWP is fucking woeful fullstop at the moment

[madge]

What on earth was going on the our corners. JWP just totally ignoring short option with loads of space to run into…

That first half was gash…

[Whitey Grandad]

Just now, madge said:

What on earth was going on the our corners. JWP just totally ignoring short option with loads of space to run into…

That first half was gash…

We did take the short option at least once.

[gallaghert366@yahoo.com]

6 minutes ago, obelisk said:

I wonder how different things might have been if Adams hadn't missed a goal line sitter against Wolves and fluffed another nailed on chance today just before Everton's 2nd. Saints can't afford to throw away those sort of opportunities.

Agree, certainly not at this level.

Yet, some posters on here suggest that Adams, and Armstrong A. can keep Southampton in the Premier League   - dream on!

[AlexLaw76]

6 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

We did take the short option at least once.

yes we did....came to nothing also lol

Edited 1 October, 2022 by AlexLaw76

[S-Clarke]

1 hour ago, John B said:

Very Good post but I would like to change you first sentence slightly

 

If we signed that striker in the summer, that was probably going to be a pretty straight forward second half. Adams once again shows he cannot be relied on, the sad thing is that no one else can be relied on either to be clinical - we've got ourselves in a right old mess in attack, the worst we've been since I started watching SFC in 1962

We've had so much worse in other leagues. I remember having to deal with McGoldrick and Jordan Robertson, after we'd sold Rasiak and loaned out Saganowski due to our log jam of strikers!

PL wise it's hard to remember much worse though. It's possible that Edozie, Mara etc could become some of the best we've had, but they're nowhere near yet and the sad thing is that our transfer window has meant we were/are relying on those two filling the Broja void - but the jury is out on that, if they don't we are substationaly weaker than last year, and to be weaker than last year isn't going to end well sadly.

Edited 1 October, 2022 by S-Clarke

[John Boy Saint]

10 minutes ago, madge said:

What on earth was going on the our corners. JWP just totally ignoring short option with loads of space to run into…

That first half was gash…

It’s seeing Perraud stood alone outside  the box on corners in acres of space - tee him to have a swing with his hammer of a left foot. 

[Mr X]

The real question as I see it is why did the club prioritise signing every other position than the striker one? I understand some potential deals fell through but wasn't there a second or even third choice on the shortlist?  

[S-Clarke]

Just now, Mr X said:

The real question as I see it is why did the club prioritise signing every other position than the striker one? I understand some potential deals fell through but wasn't there a second or even third choice on the shortlist?  

We (reportedly) had a few targets. Sasa from Stuggart, Dembele from Lyon, Ramos at Benifca and then Cody Gakpo at PSV. Gakpo being more of a complete attacker than the others. No idea how close any of those were really, but there was money down on the table for the 'right' attacker.

I guess we decided to stick as we couldn't get anyone better than what we have, but I must admit our scouts have failed a bit if they couldn't find better than Adams and Armstrong in terms of goal scorers! 

We've probably got an entire season of ''oh what a miss by Adams''  ''Adams has to be doing better there''  ''Skied by Adam Armstrong, he had to do better''. Best buckle up.

[Disco Stu]

15 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

We (reportedly) had a few targets. Sasa from Stuggart, Dembele from Lyon, Ramos at Benifca and then Cody Gakpo at PSV. Gakpo being more of a complete attacker than the others. No idea how close any of those were really, but there was money down on the table for the 'right' attacker.

I guess we decided to stick as we couldn't get anyone better than what we have, but I must admit our scouts have failed a bit if they couldn't find better than Adams and Armstrong in terms of goal scorers! 

We've probably got an entire season of ''oh what a miss by Adams''  ''Adams has to be doing better there''  ''Skied by Adam Armstrong, he had to do better''. Best buckle up.

What particularly frustrates me is Wolves beat us to Sasa Kalajdzic, lost him for the season due to an ACL injury, so then went out and got another striker on a free transfer. Diego Costa no less. I'm not necessarily suggesting we should have signed Costa (I'm not sure he would have had much interest anyway to be honest) but I'm just highlighting how the Wolves management/hierarchy identified just how vital a reliable goalscorer is to survival in this league. In that regard, they were proactive, we weren't.

Edited 1 October, 2022 by Disco Stu

[Rich102]

I honestly feel the squad is better than last year, but Ralph is so clearly out of ideas. We're not pressing because he (rightly) realises teams have worked that out, but he clearly can't coach a team to attack or defend any other way. 

For a couple of seasons now we've only gotten results against crisis/complacent teams. I don't see there being enough of those to make it to 40 points this season. 

[The Kraken]

6 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

What particularly frustrates me is Wolves beat us to Sasa Kalajdzic, lost him for the season due to an ACL injury, so then went out and got another striker on a free transfer. Diego Costa no less. I'm not necessarily suggesting we should have signed Costa (I'm not sure he would have had much interest anyway to be honest) but I'm just highlighting how the Wolves management/hierarchy identified just how vital a reliable goalscorer is to survival in this league. In this regard, they were proactive, we weren't.

Our failure to sign a striker is a massive fuck up. It’s undeniable.we can wax on about how good the actual signings are, but the lack of a striker addition was reallly bad.

A few days before the window: the club said we were getting a striker, Ralph said he was very confident of getting a striker. Then we didn’t.

So, we lost Long (no great loss, maybe replaced by Mara) and we lost Broja (big loss, replaced by nobody). So now, we’re playing second striker Che Adams as a first striker. Bad mistake. And we’re playing Adam Armstrong who runs around a lot but, bless him, isn’t very good at scoring at this level.

Add that into the fact that Ralph is playing the likes of Djenepo, A Armstrong, Diallo and Perraud, who he previously didn’t rate, and it’s doesn’t add up to a contented dressing room.

[Killers Knee]

Adams was deservedly dropped from the Scotland side for a striker from QPR FFS!  

A new manager and a new striker for Xmas please, Santa.

[gsweet87]

I think I'm going to stop going to home games. I go to 4-5 a season and haven't seen us win at home since we beat Sunderland 8-0. Never seen us lose away though weirdly.

Edited 1 October, 2022 by gsweet87

[Mr X]

6 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

We (reportedly) had a few targets. Sasa from Stuggart, Dembele from Lyon, Ramos at Benifca and then Cody Gakpo at PSV. Gakpo being more of a complete attacker than the others. No idea how close any of those were really, but there was money down on the table for the 'right' attacker.

I guess we decided to stick as we couldn't get anyone better than what we have, but I must admit our scouts have failed a bit if they couldn't find better than Adams and Armstrong in terms of goal scorers! 

We've probably got an entire season of ''oh what a miss by Adams''  ''Adams has to be doing better there''  ''Skied by Adam Armstrong, he had to do better''. Best buckle up.

Che is a good support striker we should be utilising his hold up play to release it to a proven goal scorer, Adam Armstrong has the work rate but still unconvinced he has what it takes to step up to this level & now there is even more pressure on him to do so

[The Kraken]

1 minute ago, Rich102 said:

I honestly feel the squad is better than last year.

I honestly don’t.

Forster is better than Bazunu. 

Romeu is better than AMN. I also think, as long as he’d not have played not every week, Romeu would have been massive this year In working with Lavia. Lavia was never,,ever going to play all 38, it should’ve been a one year crossover.

Livramento isn’t here for months, so we’re down him.

Billy Ketchup is an upgrade, we’ll see about collect a car.

Mara has promise but looks like a Long replacement, which is a low benchmark. I hope for better from him certainly.

we have no first choice striker replacement for Broja. Effectively Che Adams is this years Broja. Not good enough.

Edozie on the wing and Lopez at left back may be good long term but not expecting them to rip it yet, too young. We’ll see though, Lopez looked ok today but no difference to Perraud.

and we still have Elmo, Diallo and Djenepo far too close to the first team, so we clearly haven’t signed anyone much better than them.

Positives: ABK is decent, Lavia is excellent. Jury is out on all others and how much they’ll affect us, though Joe Aribo is a step up so I’d include him.

im not sure yet if our squad is better, no we were gash last year. Overall level, maybe. 

[gsweet87]

1 minute ago, Mr X said:

Che is a good support striker we should be utilising his hold up play to release it to a proven goal scorer, Adam Armstrong has the work rate but still unconvinced he has what it takes to step up to this level & now there is even more pressure on him to do so

I think Che always contributes no matter the situation, he has a lot of positive attributes but christ alive his finishing needs work.

[beatlesaint]

1 minute ago, Mr X said:

Che is a good support striker we should be utilising his hold up play to release it to a proven goal scorer, Adam Armstrong has the work rate but still unconvinced he has what it takes to step up to this level & now there is even more pressure on him to do so

Adams is definitely a support striker, having him as main striker is asking for trouble. I know he tries, he’s got the pace and he’s definitely been better this season but Adam Armstrong is not a Premier League striker and won’t be as long as he’s got a hole in his arse,

[woodsaint1]

32 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

What particularly frustrates me is Wolves beat us to Sasa Kalajdzic, lost him for the season due to an ACL injury, so then went out and got another striker on a free transfer. Diego Costa no less. I'm not necessarily suggesting we should have signed Costa (I'm not sure he would have had much interest anyway to be honest) but I'm just highlighting how the Wolves management/hierarchy identified just how vital a reliable goalscorer is to survival in this league. In that regard, they were proactive, we weren't.

They've only scored 3 goals this season, yet still managed a win against us 💩

[Whitey Grandad]

21 minutes ago, Killers Knee said:

Adams was deservedly dropped from the Scotland side for a striker from QPR FFS!  

A new manager and a new striker for Xmas please, Santa.

He caught the virus that was going around the squad.

[Disco Stu]

4 minutes ago, woodsaint1 said:

They've only scored 3 goals this season, yet still managed a win against us 💩

To be fair they've only had Sasa for 45 minutes and Costa for 30 minutes. I predict they'll score more goals than us this season.

[OttawaSaint]

3 hours ago, Streaky said:

Dowie, shipperley, Carillo, Hirst, De prado,Delgado, have a word with yourself.

Not having that. Dowie was excellent in his spell for us. Yes he looked a bit odd but his movement, anticipation, finishing etc. were top notch for us. Go look at some YouTube footage. A guy like him would be prefect for us.  Mind you RH would have him at left back or something.

[charliemiller]

My summary fwiw 

The first half we were disjointed and didn't look like the midfield had any idea what they were doing , I lost count of the pointless parallel passing between ketchup caleta CA and jwp . Jwp gave the ball away as did amn truly an aweful first half .

Second half marginally better , Stuart Armstrong doesn't look fit to me was waisted by 60 minutes.

Was noticable that Selles was standing behind Ralph pointing and screaming at the players while Ralph had  his arms crossed saying nought .

It kicked off in the itchen north when Everton scored there second ,two twats give it large and the stewards try to ignore them one in a orange hoodie was particularly obnoxious sticking the v up to saints fans , it was mad very clear to the stewards if they didn't remove him some of the older saints fans were gonna take it upon themselves to remove him .

The club did bring in stewards and police and removed them both credit where due  

 

 

 

[Harry_SFC]

40 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

Adams is definitely a support striker, having him as main striker is asking for trouble. I know he tries, he’s got the pace and he’s definitely been better this season but Adam Armstrong is not a Premier League striker and won’t be as long as he’s got a hole in his arse,

Yep this. I am a big fan of Adams and believe he should be in the side, but he shouldn't be the main man upfront because his finishing is so poor. 

[stevy777_x]

3 hours ago, richardc said:

I think JWP is fucking woeful fullstop at the moment

We should have cashed in this summer, his stock will never be as high

[OttawaSaint]

JWP is a bit of a luxury player but we can't carry him, especially with so many kids. His dead balls and all round play have been pitiful this season. Needs to get his head out of his arse and get back to basics. 

Our best corner was a short corner that someone else crossed. Says a lot.

[DT]

We still haven’t sacked him? Wtf is going on? How bad does it have to get, results-wise. Or play-wise. Or tactics-wise. Pathetic. 

[DT]

What this says is: we are completely comfortable with this shit

[Dellman]

29 minutes ago, OttawaSaint said:

JWP is a bit of a luxury player but we can't carry him, especially with so many kids. His dead balls and all round play have been pitiful this season. Needs to get his head out of his arse and get back to basics. 

Our best corner was a short corner that someone else crossed. Says a lot.

It doesn't matter how well he crosses the ball, there is no one to win a header

[OttawaSaint]

23 minutes ago, DT said:

What this says is: we are completely comfortable with this shit

I know I'm not and it's not my investment they are ruining...madness!

[Hodgey]

This is the biggest worry of all. We know that JWP can be one of the best cm in the division - all the stats prove that (I know there are many on this forum who don’t accept that, but statistically. and I’d argue simply watching games, they are wrong). But he’s well off the pace this year, and when you have a load of nippers with potential you absolutely need the consistency and standards of known quantities. Ralph needs to sort that out first - how can we get a proven player like that firing again. The cf situation we will have to live with, our strikers are not Prem level, so we’re going to have to create double the chances. I’m also worried about our gk, we haven’t fixed this problem at all…

[Brissysaint]

Well glad I watched that in the morning instead of staying up for it, maybe just me but I though Larios was a bright spark in the boring as fuck first half, I was hoping to see him and Edozie team up. 
 

but Edozie comes on and he’s been told to play in a complete dead zone? It was like they’d told perrued to push forward and him to just get out of the way.

 

liked the grit that AMN provided I thought he did a fairly decent job overall 

CC was obviously brought in for his leadership could see he was guiding ABK although it didn’t help much

 

(I’m trying to be slightly positive)

[Kingsbridge Saint]

Thought Lario looked well out of his depth at this level. Stood off yards for the first Everton goal. Needs a spell on loan, somewhere like Newport or Torquay. AMN needs a couple of months in the reserves to drop a few kilos and to get more mobile. Presumably Ralph sees this in training? Hard to understand why they got picked. As soon as Everton really needed a goal (I think they were happy enough at 0-0) they just walked through us and scored at will. Of course, as soon as we go behind it's game over. We need about 5 hours per goal at the moment. Utter Shite.

Edited 2 October, 2022 by Kingsbridge Saint
A bit too harsh on Lario originally

[gsweet87]

3 hours ago, Kingsbridge Saint said:

 Of course, as soon as we go behind it's game over. 

Don't we have the most points from losing positions this year?

[Convict Colony]

13 hours ago, East Kent Saint said:

JWP last place in player ratings on BBC sports page , has he got covid or something or is he following orders ?

Unless anyone has ordered him to be shit all season I think he's just having a come down after last seasons heroics

[Convict Colony]

We have average strikers who aren't really ever given any enough good chances from our wide players or midfielders to score - would guess 1 out of 3 good chances for a goal.

We need an striker whose clinical like ings or our midfielders need to be creating a lot better chances for our average strikers.

As an aside I thought DCC had a good first game yesterday, some passes went astray in the 1st half but seems very composed and was shouting at ABK to push up etc.

Thought KWP and Larios stood off their men too much yesterday, KWP especially is not busting a gut to stop crosses in again.

[jimmysaint7]

6 hours ago, Brissysaint said:

Well glad I watched that in the morning instead of staying up for it, maybe just me but I though Larios was a bright spark in the boring as fuck first half, I was hoping to see him and Edozie team up. 
 

but Edozie comes on and he’s been told to play in a complete dead zone? It was like they’d told perrued to push forward and him to just get out of the way.

 

liked the grit that AMN provided I thought he did a fairly decent job overall 

CC was obviously brought in for his leadership could see he was guiding ABK although it didn’t help much

 

(I’m trying to be slightly positive)

I'm sorry but amn was absolute pony yesterday needs to improve massively on that showing 

[Toussaint]

9 hours ago, OttawaSaint said:

Not having that. Dowie was excellent in his spell for us. Yes he looked a bit odd but his movement, anticipation, finishing etc. were top notch for us. Go look at some YouTube footage. A guy like him would be prefect for us.  Mind you RH would have him at left back or something.

Ralph wouldn’t have him full stop, Ralph doesn’t really do personalities or string characters, he needs robots to program with automisms. 

[Toussaint]

10 hours ago, Rich102 said:

I honestly feel the squad is better than last year, but Ralph is so clearly out of ideas. We're not pressing because he (rightly) realises teams have worked that out, but he clearly can't coach a team to attack or defend any other way. 

For a couple of seasons now we've only gotten results against crisis/complacent teams. I don't see there being enough of those to make it to 40 points this season. 

I don’t think it is, at least the first 11 isn’t. All we needed to add to last season’s starting 11 was a decent attacking midfielder. Now we have lost Oriel and Broja and we still have not addressed the attacking midfielder issue, hence we are trying to convert AA to that role. The jury is out on Aribo for me, he looks like a good championship player, but it’s early days and the midfield is completely dysfunctional in Ralph’s 2 2, so it’s hard to judge.,The only stand out for me so far is Bella Kotchap.
 

I agree with everything else you say. 

Edited 2 October, 2022 by Toussaint

[Toussaint]

8 hours ago, OttawaSaint said:

JWP is a bit of a luxury player but we can't carry him, especially with so many kids. His dead balls and all round play have been pitiful this season. Needs to get his head out of his arse and get back to basics. 

Our best corner was a short corner that someone else crossed. Says a lot.

To be fair to him, I was at the game and I thought his corners were excellent, but we have no one to attack them, we continue to sign small players and always seem outnumbered in the box. Che can win a header in a battle, but he can’t beat a cb to a header and direct the ball, he’s just not tall enough. I find it hard to single out JWP for criticism when we have the weakest midfield, without Romeu, in the premier league. 

Edited 2 October, 2022 by Toussaint

[whelk]

Hey we beat them on xG

[DT]

Woke up fully expecting an announcement of Ralph’s sacking. Where is it? Surely we have a replacement lined up. Why so slow? Do we want City to get 10?

[Sunglasses Ron]

Just seen the highlights and lost for words (almost) at that defending.

JWP and Mara for the first - Might as well have been stood on the halfway line. No idea why they were marking the biggest guy in their team.

Caleta-Car - I know it was his debut, but poor for both goals and will need to improve massively on that showing. Bad miss at the end too!

A very good chance we'll be in the bottom three after the Man City game (probably with a terrible goal difference).

Bad times.

[Dman]

8 hours ago, Brissysaint said:

liked the grit that AMN provided I thought he did a fairly decent job overall 

 

We were obviously watching a different game, AMN was appalling. Doesn’t look like a CM to me. 

[AlexLaw76]

2 minutes ago, Dman said:

We were obviously watching a different game, AMN was appalling. Doesn’t look like a CM to me. 

Letting Romeu leave is yet another weird transfer in our recent history

[jabei]

8 hours ago, Hodgey said:

This is the biggest worry of all. We know that JWP can be one of the best cm in the division - all the stats prove that (I know there are many on this forum who don’t accept that, but statistically. and I’d argue simply watching games, they are wrong). 

I’m one who doesn’t accept it. I can’t disagree with statistics obviously but I see what I see with my eyes. 
he had a decent season last season but in nobody’s world is he one of the best in the division. When he plays his best (which is very rarely) he’s an average player. 
I’ve been watching long enough (maybe too long) to be a bit non plussed as to who we suddenly seem elevate to  club greatness. 
Yesterday we had some decent pressure after their second goal but there seemed little response from the crowd when we forced a corner because we just knew nothing would come of it with JWP taking. He can take direct free kicks and occasionally he can put in a good cross from open play. I think it was his cross for the CC chance right at the end of the game. But, for the love of God, take him off corners. 

[jabei]

1 hour ago, Toussaint said:

To be fair to him, I was at the game and I thought his corners were excellent, but we have no one to attack them, we continue to sign small players and always seem outnumbered in the box. 

BK, MN, CC and Aribo look massive to me. Every single JWP corner yesterday, as every other game, went straight to a defender. When Redmond took a few last season, they looked infinitely more dangerous. 

[rallyboy]

Tell us about your matchday experience...

Really?...

[AlexLaw76]

6 minutes ago, jabei said:

BK, MN, CC and Aribo look massive to me. Every single JWP corner yesterday, as every other game, went straight to a defender. When Redmond took a few last season, they looked infinitely more dangerous. 

Everton are also a team of units

Edited 2 October, 2022 by AlexLaw76