Poll…Ralph in/out Sept. 22 edition

[aintforever]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Not sure how that helps for the rest of 2022, and 2023. So yep, meaningless. 

If old stats are meaningless you could say his win ratio for the last 6 games is 50%.

 

[egg]

4 minutes ago, aintforever said:

If old stats are meaningless you could say his win ratio for the last 6 games is 50%.

 

Behave. 

[Diabolus Ex Machina]

If people really want to compare stats of mangers etc... here you go. Based on league games only since we were back in the Prem. (Note AVG GD is just the difference between Average Goals Scored and Average Goals conceded per game)

Manager Games Points Goals For Goals Against GD W D L PPG GFPG GAPG AVG GD Win % Adkins 22 22 30 40 -10 5 7 10 1 1.37 1.82 -0.45 22.7 Pochettino 54 75 73 66 7 19 18 17 1.39 1.36 1.23 0.13 35.1 Koeman 76 123 113 74 39 36 15 25 1.62 1.49 0.98 0.51 47.3 Puel 38 46 41 48 -7 12 10 16 1.22 1.08 1.27 -0.19 31.5 Pellegrino 30 28 29 44 -15 5 13 12 0.94 0.97 1.47 -0.5 16.6 Hughes 22 17 20 38 -18 3 8 11 0.78 0.91 1.73 -0.82 13.6 Hassenhuttl 144 165 173 230 -57 44 33 60 1.15 1.21 1.6 -0.39 30.5

 

If you want to compare Ralphs performance year-on-year

Season	Games	Points	Goals For	Goals Against	GD	W	D	L	PPG	GFPG	GAPG	AVG GD	Win %
2018-19	23	30	32	36	-4	8	6	9	1.31	1.4	1.57	-0.17	34.7
2019-20	38	52	51	60	-9	15	7	16	1.37	1.35	1.58	-0.23	39.4
2020-21	38	43	47	68	-21	12	7	19	1.14	1.24	1.79	-0.55	31.5
2021-22	38	40	43	67	-24	9	13	16	1.06	1.14	1.77	-0.63	23.6
2022-23	7	7	7	11	-4	2	1	4	1	1	1.58	-0.58	28.5

 

And a quick comparison between his first 1 1/2 seasons and the last 2 and a bit.

Season(s)	Games	Points	Goals For	Goals Against	GD	W	D	L	PPG	GFPG	GAPG	AVG GD	Win %
All	144	165	173	230	-57	44	33	60	1.15	1.21	1.6	-0.39	30.5
2018-20	61	82	83	95	-12	23	13	25	1.35	1.37	1.56	-0.19	37.7
2020-23	83	90	97	146	-49	23	21	39	1.09	1.17	1.76	-0.59	27.7

 

He started off well, taking over what I believe was an under performing team from 2 rather inept managers in Pellegrino and Hughes and getting them firing at quite a high level. The longer time has gone on and the more time he's had to bring in new players and implement his playbook and automations the further we have slipped. The last 2 seasons as a whole have been pretty poor and the hope was that the new coaches and signings would help turn it around. 7 games probably isn't enough of a sample to judge whether it's working but early signs aren't the most promising. While we have not been in a serious relegation fight yet under Ralph the signs are clearly showing that we are heading that way.

[AlexLaw76]

Pellegrino was fucking shit

[Daft Kerplunk]

2 hours ago, Diabolus Ex Machina said:

If people really want to compare stats of mangers etc... here you go. Based on league games only since we were back in the Prem. (Note AVG GD is just the difference between Average Goals Scored and Average Goals conceded per game)

Manager Games Points Goals For Goals Against GD W D L PPG GFPG GAPG AVG GD Win % Adkins 22 22 30 40 -10 5 7 10 1 1.37 1.82 -0.45 22.7 Pochettino 54 75 73 66 7 19 18 17 1.39 1.36 1.23 0.13 35.1 Koeman 76 123 113 74 39 36 15 25 1.62 1.49 0.98 0.51 47.3 Puel 38 46 41 48 -7 12 10 16 1.22 1.08 1.27 -0.19 31.5 Pellegrino 30 28 29 44 -15 5 13 12 0.94 0.97 1.47 -0.5 16.6 Hughes 22 17 20 38 -18 3 8 11 0.78 0.91 1.73 -0.82 13.6 Hassenhuttl 144 165 173 230 -57 44 33 60 1.15 1.21 1.6 -0.39 30.5

 

If you want to compare Ralphs performance year-on-year

Season	Games	Points	Goals For	Goals Against	GD	W	D	L	PPG	GFPG	GAPG	AVG GD	Win %
2018-19	23	30	32	36	-4	8	6	9	1.31	1.4	1.57	-0.17	34.7
2019-20	38	52	51	60	-9	15	7	16	1.37	1.35	1.58	-0.23	39.4
2020-21	38	43	47	68	-21	12	7	19	1.14	1.24	1.79	-0.55	31.5
2021-22	38	40	43	67	-24	9	13	16	1.06	1.14	1.77	-0.63	23.6
2022-23	7	7	7	11	-4	2	1	4	1	1	1.58	-0.58	28.5

 

And a quick comparison between his first 1 1/2 seasons and the last 2 and a bit.

Season(s)	Games	Points	Goals For	Goals Against	GD	W	D	L	PPG	GFPG	GAPG	AVG GD	Win %
All	144	165	173	230	-57	44	33	60	1.15	1.21	1.6	-0.39	30.5
2018-20	61	82	83	95	-12	23	13	25	1.35	1.37	1.56	-0.19	37.7
2020-23	83	90	97	146	-49	23	21	39	1.09	1.17	1.76	-0.59	27.7

 

He started off well, taking over what I believe was an under performing team from 2 rather inept managers in Pellegrino and Hughes and getting them firing at quite a high level. The longer time has gone on and the more time he's had to bring in new players and implement his playbook and automations the further we have slipped. The last 2 seasons as a whole have been pretty poor and the hope was that the new coaches and signings would help turn it around. 7 games probably isn't enough of a sample to judge whether it's working but early signs aren't the most promising. While we have not been in a serious relegation fight yet under Ralph the signs are clearly showing that we are heading that way.

It certainly isn’t improving 

[sfc4prem]

4 hours ago, Diabolus Ex Machina said:

If people really want to compare stats of mangers etc... here you go. Based on league games only since we were back in the Prem. (Note AVG GD is just the difference between Average Goals Scored and Average Goals conceded per game)

Manager Games Points Goals For Goals Against GD W D L PPG GFPG GAPG AVG GD Win % Adkins 22 22 30 40 -10 5 7 10 1 1.37 1.82 -0.45 22.7 Pochettino 54 75 73 66 7 19 18 17 1.39 1.36 1.23 0.13 35.1 Koeman 76 123 113 74 39 36 15 25 1.62 1.49 0.98 0.51 47.3 Puel 38 46 41 48 -7 12 10 16 1.22 1.08 1.27 -0.19 31.5 Pellegrino 30 28 29 44 -15 5 13 12 0.94 0.97 1.47 -0.5 16.6 Hughes 22 17 20 38 -18 3 8 11 0.78 0.91 1.73 -0.82 13.6 Hassenhuttl 144 165 173 230 -57 44 33 60 1.15 1.21 1.6 -0.39 30.5

 

If you want to compare Ralphs performance year-on-year

Season	Games	Points	Goals For	Goals Against	GD	W	D	L	PPG	GFPG	GAPG	AVG GD	Win %
2018-19	23	30	32	36	-4	8	6	9	1.31	1.4	1.57	-0.17	34.7
2019-20	38	52	51	60	-9	15	7	16	1.37	1.35	1.58	-0.23	39.4
2020-21	38	43	47	68	-21	12	7	19	1.14	1.24	1.79	-0.55	31.5
2021-22	38	40	43	67	-24	9	13	16	1.06	1.14	1.77	-0.63	23.6
2022-23	7	7	7	11	-4	2	1	4	1	1	1.58	-0.58	28.5

 

And a quick comparison between his first 1 1/2 seasons and the last 2 and a bit.

Season(s)	Games	Points	Goals For	Goals Against	GD	W	D	L	PPG	GFPG	GAPG	AVG GD	Win %
All	144	165	173	230	-57	44	33	60	1.15	1.21	1.6	-0.39	30.5
2018-20	61	82	83	95	-12	23	13	25	1.35	1.37	1.56	-0.19	37.7
2020-23	83	90	97	146	-49	23	21	39	1.09	1.17	1.76	-0.59	27.7

 

He started off well, taking over what I believe was an under performing team from 2 rather inept managers in Pellegrino and Hughes and getting them firing at quite a high level. The longer time has gone on and the more time he's had to bring in new players and implement his playbook and automations the further we have slipped. The last 2 seasons as a whole have been pretty poor and the hope was that the new coaches and signings would help turn it around. 7 games probably isn't enough of a sample to judge whether it's working but early signs aren't the most promising. While we have not been in a serious relegation fight yet under Ralph the signs are clearly showing that we are heading that way.

Quite stark. Does he have the wherewithal to change things?

[Dark Munster]

I didn't vote because I've been on the fence. He's kept us up for several seasons with an inadequate squad. But today was the last straw. The Villa match was an abomination, and today not much better against a terrible Everton team. He has to go.

[Turkish]

On 23/09/2022 at 16:41, AlexLaw76 said:

Pellegrino was fucking shit

Were now on a worse run over their last twenty games each at the club. 

[SNSUN]

I know it's not much later than this poll was held but has anyone changed their minds? I've changed from out soon to out now. The Everton defeat cemented that for me.

[whelk]

He should go tonight 

[Dark Munster]

Mods, time for a new poll?

[The Kraken]

1 hour ago, Dark Munster said:

Mods, time for a new poll?

I don’t think we need one other than to prove a point. Anyone saying ‘Ralph to stay’ is either a complete whopper or on the wind up.

[woodsaint1]

Think the word to describe the last two years has been stagnant. While there have been some good performances/results which have exceeded our expectations, they have been greatly outweighed by many poor ones. We dont seem capable of stringing a good run together anymore, just the odd win here or there. But we're very capable of going on horrendous winless runs. For that reason I think we're sleep walking towards relegation unless SR act soon. I still think our summer business has been good, and a new manager with fresh ideas/impetus is exactly what we need right now to help us push on.

Hope for Ralphs sake this isnt dragged out as the fanbase would really turn against him, and he doesnt deserve that. A really likeable guy who has given his all for this club for the past 4 years. For the most part he has overachieved and kept us well away from relegation, with some very average teams and with little financial backing. Thanks Ralph

[Ted Bates Statue]

On 23/09/2022 at 14:50, Diabolus Ex Machina said:

If people really want to compare stats of mangers etc... here you go. Based on league games only since we were back in the Prem. (Note AVG GD is just the difference between Average Goals Scored and Average Goals conceded per game)

Manager Games Points Goals For Goals Against GD W D L PPG GFPG GAPG AVG GD Win % Adkins 22 22 30 40 -10 5 7 10 1 1.37 1.82 -0.45 22.7 Pochettino 54 75 73 66 7 19 18 17 1.39 1.36 1.23 0.13 35.1 Koeman 76 123 113 74 39 36 15 25 1.62 1.49 0.98 0.51 47.3 Puel 38 46 41 48 -7 12 10 16 1.22 1.08 1.27 -0.19 31.5 Pellegrino 30 28 29 44 -15 5 13 12 0.94 0.97 1.47 -0.5 16.6 Hughes 22 17 20 38 -18 3 8 11 0.78 0.91 1.73 -0.82 13.6 Hassenhuttl 144 165 173 230 -57 44 33 60 1.15 1.21 1.6 -0.39 30.5

 

Only just saw this so apologies for the late review. I would be interested to know where you get this info from as I find most websites (e.g. Wikipedia) include cup statistics in managers' records, which doesn't create a fair comparison.

I have an issue with one calculation - while Hasenhuttl has slipped some way from a record better than Pochettino's two years ago, his record above has omitted our two wins this season, which means that as of this weekend, his win percentage at 31.5% has only just reached parity with the forum's favourite martyr Claude Puel. Some might find it fitting if Hasenhuttl loses his job after achieving the same win rate. I only hope that this time a decent appointment is lined up, if and when the trigger is pulled.

Having said that, your conclusion is a fair one.

[Diabolus Ex Machina]

15 minutes ago, Ted Bates Statue said:

Only just saw this so apologies for the late review. I would be interested to know where you get this info from as I find most websites (e.g. Wikipedia) include cup statistics in managers' records, which doesn't create a fair comparison.

I have an issue with one calculation - while Hasenhuttl has slipped some way from a record better than Pochettino's two years ago, his record above has omitted our two wins this season, which means that as of this weekend, his win percentage at 31.5% has only just reached parity with the forum's favourite martyr Claude Puel. Some might find it fitting if Hasenhuttl loses his job after achieving the same win rate. I only hope that this time a decent appointment is lined up, if and when the trigger is pulled.

Having said that, your conclusion is a fair one.

The statistics aren't pulled from a particular site, I see a lot of arguments on this forum that are never backed up by any sort of evidence so when trying to make a point I like to make sure I have figures to at least back up my point. I started tracking stuff myself a couple of years back during our first terrible run under Ralph to see how it compared to runs under other managers so worked backwards a bit and then continued to track certain things going forward.

The main thing i've pulled is just results either from Wikipedia or the official premier league site and then used those to calculate things like win percentages, points per game etc... Key stats I track mostly go back to when we got promoted back to the Prem as that seemed the best starting point for comparisons. I did make a list of all our league results going all the way back to the 1987-88 season when seeing how bad our end of season run in 2020-21 was though. I didn't bother going further back as couldn't find a data source in a good format.

You are correct though in that when pulling the data from several other tables into this final one I hadn't updated some figures and so the figures for Ralph are slightly incorrect in that table - the total number of games was correct but the wins, draws and losses from this season hadn't been added yet. Corrected figures after the City game would be as follows.

Manager	Games	Points	Goals For	Goals Against	GD	W	D	L	PPG	GFPG	GAPG	AVG GD	Win %
Adkins	22	22	30	40	-10	5	7	10	1	1.37	1.82	-0.45	22.7
Pochettino	54	75	73	66	7	19	18	17	1.39	1.36	1.23	0.13	35.1
Koeman	76	123	113	74	39	36	15	25	1.62	1.49	0.98	0.51	47.3
Puel	38	46	41	48	-7	12	10	16	1.22	1.08	1.27	-0.19	31.5
Pellegrino	30	28	29	44	-15	5	13	12	0.94	0.97	1.47	-0.5	16.6
Hughes	22	17	20	38	-18	3	8	11	0.78	0.91	1.73	-0.82	13.6
Hassenhuttl	146	172	181	248	-67	46	34	66	1.18	1.24	1.7	-0.46	31.5

That means that Ralph does currently have an equal win % as Puel did (at least in the league) though it's worth noting that a full half of those wins came in his first season and a half (61 games covering 23 games in 2018-19 & the whole of the 2019-20 season) compared to the other half in the past 2 and a bit seasons (85 games covering 2020-21, 2021-22 and this season).

And just in case anyone wondered what the figures look like for this season so far, it's not pretty reading being basically as bad as we were under Hughes (if not slightly worse).

Manager	Games	Points	Goals For	Goals Against	GD	W	D	L	PPG	GFPG	GAPG	AVG GD	Win %
Hassenhuttl	9	7	8	17	-9	2	1	6	0.78	0.89	1.89	-1	22.2

[Saint86]

46 minutes ago, Diabolus Ex Machina said:

And just in case anyone wondered what the figures look like for this season so far, it's not pretty reading being basically as bad as we were under Hughes (if not slightly worse).

Manager	Games	Points	Goals For	Goals Against	GD	W	D	L	PPG	GFPG	GAPG	AVG GD	Win %
Hassenhuttl	9	7	8	17	-9	2	1	6	0.78	0.89	1.89	-1	22.2

Given we've played 4 of the top 5 in those 9 games, that isn't that shocking a record.