Poll…Ralph in/out Sept. 22 edition

[cambsaint]

I think he's had long enough and been found wanting.

Hi substitutions almost always amaze me and not starting S Armstrong I find bizarre

Personally I'd be far happier with Sean Dyche. My cousin's a Clarets supporter and the fans worshipped him right to the end and most thought his sacking ensured relegation

He did an amazing job with limited resources at an unfashionable club where not that many young footballers would be attracted to.

[Master Bates]

He has his coaches, he has his team,

He has ten games, to show he means,

For us to be strong, and win...

 

Ah fuzz it, if we lose against Everton then f him off. I'm getting a bit tired of him at the moment, hoping that changes but...

[whelk]

There should be another option: Ask me after the Everton game.

Dismal defeat and off you trot

Decent victory and faith restored for a bit

[hypochondriac]

I think it is quite a hard one precisely because we swing between great and horrendous on such a regular basis. Other managers we have had theres been a steady decline or its got to the point where it's obvious it can't continue. The frustrating thing about Ralph is just as you start to think we've got to that point he pulls a Chelsea result out of the bag where we look superb. I really don't understand our team and their mentality. I'm not sure how they can play as they did against Chelsea with all of that commitment and energy and then lose in such a fashion against Villa where they looked so bereft of ideas and played so markedly poorly. It has to be the manager I'm afraid and for me he has reached the point where I do not have confidence that he will consistently get us to play well for a sustained period of time. If we keep him for another year I reckon we will go through more phases of looking great and then looking awful and I'd rather have a manager where we re slowly improving and showing consistency. Ralph to go please.

[hypochondriac]

11 minutes ago, whelk said:

There should be another option: Ask me after the Everton game.

Dismal defeat and off you trot

Decent victory and faith restored for a bit

I'm not sure we should be making a big decision like this based on the performance in one game. Ralph has show that it's really not about one great or awful performance in isolation. 

[whelk]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

I'm not sure we should be making a big decision like this based on the performance in one game. Ralph has show that it's really not about one great or awful performance in isolation. 

He cannot afford any more awful though. I exercise my right to be a fickle bastard

[notnowcato]

3 hours ago, Alanh said:

So using a really basic measure of a score out of 10, you would have given the team a 5 for their whole performance against Chelsea to signify how average you considered it?

Keep it simple man. I’ve only seen 3 ratings so far: good, average, dog dirt. We’ve been a mixture of average and dog dirt this season; extrapolate that to your heart’s content. 

[Dusic]

9 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

I'm not sure we should be making a big decision like this based on the performance in one game. Ralph has show that it's really not about one great or awful performance in isolation. 

Before the Villa game I think the result of the poll would probably be quite different, so one game does seem to make a difference to the overall mood.

[Colinjb]

The leopard cannot change his spots and its madness to keep repeating chance after chance and expecting a change. 

Ralph out. 

[macca155]

Can't vote in this poll as there isn't a 'an undecided' option. As much as that annoys some, it is where a lot of us are still.

Every time Saints hit a low and calls for Ralph to go reach a crescendo, somehow the team seems to raise its game and beat a notable side. Thus stopping any momentum.

The Villa and Wolves games were dreadful. Ralph said as much in his post match comments.

Sacking a manager is a precarious decision, there needs to be a decent candidate waiting. Otherwise the club is gambling on the usual suspects.

A run of reasoable results up until the world cup will calm things down. I'd even accept some boring draws, just stop the rot.

That gives the club chance to buy a striker in January and a replacement for Oriel.

Young teams need patience, sacking your manager is hardly going to help.

Ralph has a small window now to sort things out. If he doesn't then clearly he is history.

Problem is I've been saying this for ages. Elements of Groundhog day.

[saintrich]

Spurs aside we haven't really been too much on the back foot, or conceding wave after wave of attack - which makes the three 1-0 defeats a bit harder to take.

If we can work on and improve our attacking play over the next few games, while continuing to limit chances and goals at the other end, then I don't see any reason to make a change.

But if we improve our attacking play and go back to conceding plenty of goals and chances (let's perhaps ignore the Man City game when measuring this) then I don't see how he will be able to continue this time around and perhaps a change could be made around the time of the World Cup break starting. 

[notnowcato]

2 hours ago, Dusic said:

Before the Villa game I think the result of the poll would probably be quite different, so one game does seem to make a difference to the overall mood.

You’re right. Going into the Villa game I was looking forward to seeing a big improvement; lots of new players having best part of 2 weeks to really come together. What we saw was a tame selection from Ralph and a terrible performance. 

[Saint Fan CaM]

Thing is and this is important, it’s not just the Villa game. It’s not even just the Wolves too - it’s been 12 months of poor performances - 3 wins in 27!!!  The steady decline in strange team sheets, substitutions, lack of progressive attacking football, loss of the high press (even though we’ve improved the defence), the astounding lack of creativity (when we’ve got some very exciting players), lack pace in transition/attack, regression of some players, potentially serious (career defining) injuries to two young players (Tino and Lavia). The list goes on. Ralph must be on borrowed time now.

And it seems 70% of us think he should go, it’s just when. It will not be before Everton I suspect, however I’m not expecting a win as they're just the type of team that we can’t seem to dominate, so we’ll see if he gets to the WC intact.

Edited 22 September, 2022 by Saint Fan CaM

[Pamplemousse]

Out of interest, were any polls taken before Pellegrino and Hughes were sacked?

 

Surely that would have been closer to 90% them getting the boot

[S-Clarke]

We're certainly pretty shit nowadays, as shit as we have ever been under Ralph. I have been a staunch supporter of Ralph because I like to follow teams with a clear identity and a purpose, the counter pressing and attacking way we played was fun and at times a bit crazy. We never had the players to really sustain that though bar a few purple patches, which is why we ended up with some almighty battering’s along the way.

I agree with what others say in that those large defeats have changed Ralph. He's become a cautious and stand-off manager, focusing on defending before anything else. There's nothing wrong with a defensive focus, but not when it comes at the expense of any attacking ambition. Villa was incredible in that sense. We are more interested in stopping the opposition score goals as opposed to scoring them ourselves. Gone is the bravery and the counter pressing in the final third, or the red zone as Ralph once put it.

It's frustrating for me because this is now the first squad he's had with us who would be able to sustain this style. We have recovery pace at the back, legs and mobility in the middle (when Lavia is fit and AMN is used). Cover at full back, physicality all over the pitch etc. But we now don't play that way, we're regressed back to a very scared damage-limitation style team and when you go in with that mindset you never really look great in attack.

Sure, we've got some pretty diabolical attackers still, but we need to see the new guys like Aribo, Mara and Edozie get some chances now. I still stand by my view that nothing will change before the world cup. It's an ideal point to reflect on the first half and see where we are then.

Our start hasn't been 'diabolical' by any means in terms of points, it could have been a lot worse, but let's see where we are come November in the hope that these new players start impacting – things may look different then.

[Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd]

Basically, 70% of our fan base don't think he's up to the job. 

[richardc]

7 minutes ago, Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd said:

Basically, 70% of our fan base don't think he's up to the job. 

70% of Saints Web not sure Saints web is that indicative of the fan base

[Ted Bates Statue]

3 hours ago, Pamplemousse said:

Out of interest, were any polls taken before Pellegrino and Hughes were sacked?

 

Surely that would have been closer to 90% them getting the boot

Only 90%, you think it was that low?

Now that you mention it I would be interested to see the Puel Out poll.

Edited 22 September, 2022 by Ted Bates Statue

[The Cat]

Can we have a poll option for "shake it all about" please.

[Mr Nimbus]

I am fairly set in my mind now that it's time for a change. Performances (baring Villa) seemed to have improved but results have not. For me they are not likely too based upon a sustained sample size (nearly a year)

After the Wolves game I thought the next evolution is to get out of those middle of the road games without losing.  We then go and lose back to back games 1-0. 

I really appreciate the job Ralph has done, in trying circumstances with a team that lacks quality in a lot of areas.

The biggest question I have is who could take over. Whats everyones thoughts? Before anyone chips in Poch is not coming back here.

 

Edited 22 September, 2022 by Mr Nimbus
grammer

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

2 hours ago, richardc said:

70% of Saints Web not sure Saints web is that indicative of the fan base

I wonder what results you would get if you polled our poor travelling fans? The guy has to go. I don't get how people think he is going to turn things around to be honest. However, I would not pull the trigger on him until a suitable replacement is found. I would think SR are on the case. 

[Mr X]

8 hours ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Thing is and this is important, it’s not just the Villa game. It’s not even just the Wolves too - it’s been 12 months of poor performances - 3 wins in 27!!!  The steady decline in strange team sheets, substitutions, lack of progressive attacking football, loss of the high press (even though we’ve improved the defence), the astounding lack of creativity (when we’ve got some very exciting players), lack pace in transition/attack, regression of some players, potentially serious (career defining) injuries to two young players (Tino and Lavia). The list goes on. Ralph must be on borrowed time now.

And it seems 70% of us think he should go, it’s just when. It will not be before Everton I suspect, however I’m not expecting a win as they're just the type of team that we can’t seem to dominate, so we’ll see if he gets to the WC intact.

That's the sum of it 3 wins in 27 should not be acceptable by any club yet our club does, grateful for Ralph's time here but  his managerial performances have steadily declined and he's had four years now to show where he can take us, not sure he would even get any takers in this league again if he was to lose his job, I think other clubs are well aware of his limitations unpredictability, stubbornness and huge inconsistencies 

[trousers]

4 hours ago, Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd said:

Basically, 70% of our fan base don't think he's up to the job. 

 

4 hours ago, richardc said:

70% of Saints Web not sure Saints web is that indicative of the fan base

There are 12,719 SaintsWeb members and 181 of them voted for Ralph to go.

According to my O-Level maths that's 1.42%....

[Master Bates]

3 hours ago, The Cat said:

Can we have a poll option for "shake it all about" please.

Hokey

[revolution saint]

24 minutes ago, trousers said:

 

There are 12,719 SaintsWeb members and 181 of them voted for Ralph to go.

According to my O-Level maths that's 1.42%....

And about 0.6% want him to stay............

[captainchris]

On 21/09/2022 at 22:00, hypochondriac said:

I'm not sure we should be making a big decision like this based on the performance in one game. Ralph has show that it's really not about one great or awful performance in isolation. 

It’s ridiculous to pretend that it is ‘just one game’ where Ralph has blatantly underperformed. In fact it is most games….

[trousers]

31 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

And about 0.6% want him to stay............

I wonder what the remaining 97.8% think...?

[SNSUN]

17 minutes ago, trousers said:

I wonder what the remaining 97.8% think...?

Aren't they the many, multi-named accounts of Glasgow Saint? 

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, captainchris said:

It’s ridiculous to pretend that it is ‘just one game’ where Ralph has blatantly underperformed. In fact it is most games….

I think you misunderstand my post. I've actually said I want Ralph to go I just don't think we should be flip flopping on our desire for him to leave based on how we have performed in the previous game. 

[stevy777_x]

Fact: we ve never been in any relegation battle under Ralph ever.

And I can guarantee we won t be this season if he stays. 

[SNSUN]

24 minutes ago, stevy777_x said:

Fact: we ve never been in any relegation battle under Ralph ever.

And I can guarantee we won t be this season if he stays. 

Bold statement, I wish I was as confident as you.

 

Even if you think we signed good players in the summer (Lavia and ABK showing that so far), we lack a striker that can regularly score goals (in addition hampered by our midfield not contributing either) and are still leaking goals and I think that could be our downfall. Add in that most other teams in the League that should be in or around us have strengthened well this summer and I'm very worried for our Premier League status. We're additionally hampered by Ralph playing the likes of Moi every game and seemingly not even knowing what his strongest team is, nor even what his strongest formation is.

 

Yes we haven't been in a relegation battle with him before, but that's usually due to freakish short periods of form where we look unstoppable, before regressing to type. I genuinely think with our form the way it was at the tail end of last season had the season been 2 or 3 games longer we would have dropped. Yes, it wasn't and No, we weren't in a relegation battle, but it shows that we were damn close. All it takes this season is for us not to hit that freakish patch of form and we drop, especially as I think most teams are stronger than they were last season and even Fulham and Forest have, on paper at least, added well.

 

The Everton game will have a huge say on where we are exactly. Everton added to their defence and midfield well in the summer but didn't do a lot with their attack bar Maupay, so they're in the same 'lack of goals' category as us. We need points on the board and we really need to be beating the likes of Everton if we want to stay up this season.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

On 22/09/2022 at 07:11, Dusic said:

Before the Villa game I think the result of the poll would probably be quite different, so one game does seem to make a difference to the overall mood.

Take your point but that performance plumbed new depths. 

[Fitzhugh Fella]

10 hours ago, trousers said:

 

There are 12,719 SaintsWeb members and 181 of them voted for Ralph to go.

According to my O-Level maths that's 1.42%....

Can we have a poll to decide who is the biggest pedant on this forum now MLG has gone underground please?

[egg]

1 minute ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Can we have a poll to decide who is the biggest pedant on this forum now MLG has gone underground please?

He must be loving all the attention he's getting now he's gone. He's like the Roy Orbison of forums. 

[stevy777_x]

6 hours ago, SNSUN said:

Bold statement, I wish I was as confident as you.

 

Even if you think we signed good players in the summer (Lavia and ABK showing that so far), we lack a striker that can regularly score goals (in addition hampered by our midfield not contributing either) and are still leaking goals and I think that could be our downfall. Add in that most other teams in the League that should be in or around us have strengthened well this summer and I'm very worried for our Premier League status. We're additionally hampered by Ralph playing the likes of Moi every game and seemingly not even knowing what his strongest team is, nor even what his strongest formation is.

 

Yes we haven't been in a relegation battle with him before, but that's usually due to freakish short periods of form where we look unstoppable, before regressing to type. I genuinely think with our form the way it was at the tail end of last season had the season been 2 or 3 games longer we would have dropped. Yes, it wasn't and No, we weren't in a relegation battle, but it shows that we were damn close. All it takes this season is for us not to hit that freakish patch of form and we drop, especially as I think most teams are stronger than they were last season and even Fulham and Forest have, on paper at least, added well.

 

The Everton game will have a huge say on where we are exactly. Everton added to their defence and midfield well in the summer but didn't do a lot with their attack bar Maupay, so they're in the same 'lack of goals' category as us. We need points on the board and we really need to be beating the likes of Everton if we want to stay up this season.

I think you ve contradicted yourself a few times here. 
Last season you say we didn’t have a recognized striker either, abelt Broja revealed himself but as others have pointed out 6 goals scored is hardly prolific. 
we ve upgraded in defense and midfield, if not convinced, would you 
you gladly  exchange last season s players for this season’s? I wouldn’t one bit.

You also say we seem to have purple patches which has been the case every season, well Im convinced you we will have one this season and the young players we ve brought in won t let a season the season tail away like last season s players that I am convinced too.

 

[trousers]

56 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Can we have a poll to decide who is the biggest pedant on this forum now MLG has gone underground please?

Don't need a poll... I can exclusively reveal that it's me! #proudpedant

(That said, the act of correcting a figure of 70% that in reality is 1.42% is an interesting interpretation of the word 'pedantry'... Seems like quite a significant difference to me but, not being one of the forum's self-appointed intelligentsia, what do I know...? )

P.s. I hear Bank of England interest rates went up by 56% yesterday. Jeepers, nobody saw that coming.

Edited 23 September, 2022 by trousers

[trousers]

1 hour ago, egg said:

He must be loving all the attention he's getting now he's gone. He's like the Roy Orbison of forums. 

*fora

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(A bonus post for the pedantry police there )

 

Edited 23 September, 2022 by trousers

[berkshiresaint]

I have been Ralph out for a long time. He hasn't performed at all, i believe his win rate is around 35% that is not nearly good enough at this level. i have received all sorts of grief from the pro Ralph brigade all of whom are more than happy to blame the players, coaches, owners, other teams & any number of other reasons. the fact is he just isn't good enough. if he stays then we are looking at relegation. Now is the time to make the change otherwise the WC will be upon us & then i fear it will be too late. 

[Hodgey]

I think much of the question remains are we getting enough out of the players we have. By and large I think he is, he isn’t getting more than expected out of them though. He knows our strikers are not good enough - they didn’t get the wow attacker over the line and it was pretty obvious they had half an eye on moving Adams on. So it’s not like Ralph doesn’t know the issues. Rom going was a mistake - but I’m assuming once told he’d be a back up he was keen to go and allowed to due to service. I think there is fair criticism on att mid - he hasn’t found that balance yet but as there are new faces I’m willing to give him some flex. The 5 at the back fiasco I think was just tried too early without the personnel to do it - now we have DCC I expect a hopefully successful return (we certainly need a different tactical option). Overall we don’t currently have the players who can deliver the final ball / shot so I do see his obsession with keeping it tight knowing going toe to toe against more clinical sides (most of the division) will end up badly. So overall I think his plan makes sense, and will need a bit of time.

[alehouseboys]

57 minutes ago, trousers said:

Don't need a poll... I can exclusively reveal that it's me! #proudpedant

(That said, the act of correcting a figure of 70% that in reality is 1.42% is an interesting interpretation of the word 'pedantry'... Seems like quite a significant difference to me but, not being one of the forum's self-appointed intelligentsia, what do I know...? )

P.s. I hear Bank of England interest rates went up by 56% yesterday. Jeepers, nobody saw that coming.

So in simple terms, we’re saying out of 12,719 Saints Web members, only 265 could be bothered to vote and out of that, 181 want Ralph gone immediately and only 9 think he’s doing a good job.

He’s doomed ain’t he (until we next win a couple of games of course)

[Saint Fan CaM]

2 hours ago, trousers said:

Don't need a poll... I can exclusively reveal that it's me! #proudpedant

(That said, the act of correcting a figure of 70% that in reality is 1.42% is an interesting interpretation of the word 'pedantry'... Seems like quite a significant difference to me but, not being one of the forum's self-appointed intelligentsia, what do I know...? )

P.s. I hear Bank of England interest rates went up by 56% yesterday. Jeepers, nobody saw that coming.

Given it was clear the 70% referred to were those who voted in the forum poll, your attempt to out-pedant MLG has spectacularly crashed unfortunately. Having said that, it’s a damned good impression of MLG’s irrational hijacking of a thread, so well done. 😉

[Piran]

2 hours ago, berkshiresaint said:

I have been Ralph out for a long time. He hasn't performed at all, i believe his win rate is around 35% that is not nearly good enough at this level. i have received all sorts of grief from the pro Ralph brigade all of whom are more than happy to blame the players, coaches, owners, other teams & any number of other reasons. the fact is he just isn't good enough. if he stays then we are looking at relegation. Now is the time to make the change otherwise the WC will be upon us & then i fear it will be too late. 

What would you consider as an acceptable percentage?

What win rate is achieved by successful managers at our level? By unsuccessful ones?

Would you take other factors into consideration? Money spent on team members? The quality of other teams? Injuries to key members of our team?

I believe we should be told...

[ErwinK1961]

2 hours ago, berkshiresaint said:

I have been Ralph out for a long time. He hasn't performed at all, i believe his win rate is around 35% that is not nearly good enough at this level. i have received all sorts of grief from the pro Ralph brigade all of whom are more than happy to blame the players, coaches, owners, other teams & any number of other reasons. the fact is he just isn't good enough. if he stays then we are looking at relegation. Now is the time to make the change otherwise the WC will be upon us & then i fear it will be too late. 

35% win rate over 38 games = 13.3wins = 40 points. Add some draws into that and you’re comfortable staying up.

[The Left Back]

2 hours ago, berkshiresaint said:

I have been Ralph out for a long time. He hasn't performed at all, i believe his win rate is around 35% that is not nearly good enough at this level. i have received all sorts of grief from the pro Ralph brigade all of whom are more than happy to blame the players, coaches, owners, other teams & any number of other reasons. the fact is he just isn't good enough. if he stays then we are looking at relegation. Now is the time to make the change otherwise the WC will be upon us & then i fear it will be too late. 

Regardless of whether he should stay or go (I'm for keeping him for the season unless things go spectacularly wrong), your statements I've highlighted don't stack up.

Ralph's win rate, which you rightly quote at 35% (34.94 % according to Wikipedia), gives us 40 points in a 38 games season without allowing for any draws, so clearly good enough for a team who's primary objective is survival.  35% win rate also puts him ahead of Nicholl, Ball, Souness, Jones, and only 0.5% off Strachan (I'm only looking at our managers in the top flight).  

[aintforever]

Pochettino's win percentage was 38% and he's a managerial god but 35% makes you shit.

[notnowcato]

22 minutes ago, ErwinK1961 said:

35% win rate over 38 games = 13.3wins = 40 points. Add some draws into that and you’re comfortable staying up.

 

16 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Pochettino's win percentage was 38% and he's a managerial god but 35% makes you shit.

 

22 minutes ago, The Left Back said:

Regardless of whether he should stay or go (I'm for keeping him for the season unless things go spectacularly wrong), your statements I've highlighted don't stack up.

Ralph's win rate, which you rightly quote at 35% (34.94 % according to Wikipedia), gives us 40 points in a 38 games season without allowing for any draws, so clearly good enough for a team who's primary objective is survival.  35% win rate also puts him ahead of Nicholl, Ball, Souness, Jones, and only 0.5% off Strachan (I'm only looking at our managers in the top flight).  

The problem is his win rate in the premier league last season was 24%.  I can't be arsed to dig out the stat on points lost from winning positions but I think we all know what that will tell us and in which direction his returns are heading.  Overall, recent performances are not offering much hope for the future.  

The straw that broke this donkeys back was the attacking 4 selected for the Villa match: Djenno (on the right) Mo (centre) A Armstrong (left) Che - 3 of the 4 played out of position, after 2 weeks preparation... serious questions have to be asked, you've got 2 weeks to prepare for a match where you know the oppo and their manager will be scrapping for their lives and that's the best you come up with??  Give me a break. 

[trousers]

1 hour ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Given it was clear the 70% referred to were those who voted in the forum poll, your attempt to out-pedant MLG has spectacularly crashed unfortunately. Having said that, it’s a damned good impression of MLG’s irrational hijacking of a thread, so well done. 😉

Praise the Lord! 

 

[Saint Fan CaM]

13 minutes ago, ErwinK1961 said:

35% win rate over 38 games = 13.3wins = 40 points. Add some draws into that and you’re comfortable staying up.

Absolutely hypothetically! Trouble is I believe our win rate is currently circa 11% over the last 27 games (28.5% from just this seasons games), with little sign of improvement if Wolves and Villa are suitable examples. It could be argued that the trajectory is declining performances in relation to investment. To counter that, we could see Lavia and Tino return to the 1st team which might improve our win rate, but 11% is most definitely relegation form (and so is 28.5% as I doubt less than 35 points will mean survival).

[trousers]

Ralph's win rate in 2020 was 47%...

... oops, sorry, I keep forgetting calendar year stats are "meaningless".... ignore me.... my bad....

Edited 23 September, 2022 by trousers

[egg]

8 minutes ago, trousers said:

Ralph's win rate in 2020 was 47%...

... oops, sorry, I keep forgetting calendar year stats are "meaningless".... ignore me.... my bad....

Not sure how that helps for the rest of 2022, and 2023. So yep, meaningless.