Poll…Ralph in/out Sept. 22 edition

[gsweet87]

10 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

Next manager to be sacked - surely that's Miss Brenda Bodgers before its Hassenhuttle? They're a far better quality team than us (recent history) and they're rooted to the bottom of the table without a win and on -12GD. 

You'd have thought so but the bookies tend to be fairly reliable with this sort of thing

[Gingeletiss]

18 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

Next manager to be sacked - surely that's Miss Brenda Bodgers before its Hassenhuttle? They're a far better quality team than us (recent history) and they're rooted to the bottom of the table without a win and on -12GD. 

9m payoff, according to the BBC.

[Singapore Saint]

27 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

Next manager to be sacked - surely that's Miss Brenda Bodgers before its Hassenhuttle? They're a far better quality team than us (recent history) and they're rooted to the bottom of the table without a win and on -12GD. 

Apparently Leicester are too skint to pay Brenda's £10m compensation.

[notnowcato]

1 hour ago, gsweet87 said:

 

Arrrrggghhhh... if only there was someone who could explain how these football markets work!!

[Toussaint]

45 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

Next manager to be sacked - surely that's Miss Brenda Bodgers before its Hassenhuttle? They're a far better quality team than us (recent history) and they're rooted to the bottom of the table without a win and on -12GD. 

But mostly because they lost to us

[Toussaint]

7 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Arrrrggghhhh... if only there was someone who could explain how these football markets work!!

well it's a bit confusing, but isn't it the more money that pours in shortens the odds, so it becomes self perpetuating in that sense, but then again if the initial money piling in is a result of some inside info???.... so, in conclusion, I don't know either.

[Saint Garrett]

Certainly seems a bit odd that he's gone from 16/1 to 5/4 in 12 hours. Says to me something has happened, as it hasn't happened because of 1 result...seems some money has come in for him.

Have to take odds as a pinch of salt, especially when it's advertised like that on Betfair, as people just jump on the bandwagon.

I hope he stays personally. Pretty much where I expected us to be after 7 games, if not slightly overachieved..

[Saint86]

1 hour ago, gsweet87 said:

You'd have thought so but the bookies tend to be fairly reliable with this sort of thing

I am imagining the MLG reaction to this post 🤣

[Bad Wolf]

7 points from those 7 games is about what I hoped for tbh.

[aintforever]

1 hour ago, gsweet87 said:

You'd have thought so but the bookies tend to be fairly reliable with this sort of thing

Are they? Not sure Parker and Tuchel were the favourites for the sack at the start of the season.

[notnowcato]

1 hour ago, Toussaint said:

well it's a bit confusing, but isn't it the more money that pours in shortens the odds, so it becomes self perpetuating in that sense, but then again if the initial money piling in is a result of some inside info???.... so, in conclusion, I don't know either.

Pouring, piling.... trickling.  I mean there's so many other football markets to get stuck into with all the live games on today, oh.

[notnowcato]

55 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

7 points from those 7 games is about what I hoped for tbh.

We got Chelsea and Lester at very good times for us.  We're fortunate to have 7 points, the very concerning aspect is the last performance at Villa.  I've seen some really shit football in my time but that offering from the team last Friday was up there with the worst of it.  We should be starting to gel at this point of the season, at Villa Park they looked like fucking strangers with very little understanding of their purpose on the pitch.

We need to see a positive reaction in our next match, otherwise the fat lady will be starting her warm up routine..

[Dusic]

My opinion FWIW:

We have generally been more solid this season but its been at the expense of our attacking ability.

In the PL its such a balancingnact between defence and attack and previously we and he have been burned by being too open.

However, now we have what seems to be a decent CB pairing and once we get Lavia back I think we can go back to 4-2-2-2, as I think we need to play two strikers to play together in order to make up for not having any x factor type players in forward areas (which isn't Ralph's fault).

IMO he deserves a few more games to see whether he can marry defence and attack. 

If he cannot then its time to part ways but a part of me feels we are close to being a good side if we can find an attacking combination that will work. But without a high energy, high pressing style I don't really see what he brings, so hope he goes back to that.

Our start is pretty much where I expected points wise so no huge rush to take action now unless they have seen concerns behind the scenes.

An obvious time to make a change would be just before or during the WC period.

Edited 21 September, 2022 by Dusic

[saintant]

6 hours ago, daldridge7 said:

We were crap against Villa but we get a win against Everton and we are mid table which if the season ended there, I’d be happy with considering all the changes to the team and the experience lost. My only concern is his insistence on playing hard working 10s over creative ones. Hopefully Edozie can come in to his own because he doesn’t seem to fancy Stuey right now who is arguable the most likely of our 10s to put a good pass in or find the back of the net. Diallo is also too inconsistent and doesn’t play well with JWP. Hopefully we can get Lavia back ASAP but again that’s not really a Hassenhuttl issue, that’s just bad luck with injury and AMN is getting up to speed with the system. 

Everton have a much improved defence - just don't see where our goals are going to come from. Predicting 0-0 or a narrow defeat for this one probably yet another 0-1.

[Bad Wolf]

17 minutes ago, Dusic said:

My opinion FWIW:

We have generally been more solid this season but its been at the expense of our attacking ability.

In the PL its such a balancingnact between defence and attack and previously we and he have been burned by being too open.

However, now we have what seems to be a decent CB pairing and once we get Lavia back I think we can go back to 4-2-2-2, as I think we need to play two strikers to play together in order to make up for not having any x factor type players in forward areas (which isn't Ralph's fault).

IMO he deserves a few more games to see whether he can marry defence and attack. 

If he cannot then its time to part ways but a part of me feels we are close to being a good side if we can find an attacking combination that will work. But without a high energy, high pressing style I don't really see what he brings, so hope he goes back to that.

Our start is pretty much where I expected points wise so no huge rush to take action now unless they have seen concerns behind the scenes.

An obvious time to make a change would be just before or during the WC period.

Yes, if Ralph doesn't have the trust of the owners, he should have gone either in the summer or before the WC. Sacking him now would be a bit counter productive.

[LaptopSaint]

58 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

We got Chelsea and Lester at very good times for us.  We're fortunate to have 7 points, the very concerning aspect is the last performance at Villa.  I've seen some really shit football in my time but that offering from the team last Friday was up there with the worst of it.  We should be starting to gel at this point of the season, at Villa Park they looked like fucking strangers with very little understanding of their purpose on the pitch.

We need to see a positive reaction in our next match, otherwise the fat lady will be starting her warm up routine..

I think this is the key point. The performance at Villa was absolutely atrocious - right up there with some grim Pellegrino and (for those with longer memories) Branfoot games.

It wasn't the starting line-up i'd have chosen, but I could see the argument for concentrating on keeping it tight to begin with and prioritising what we were doing without the ball.

But once we were one down, watching Che try to play without another Saints player anywhere near him, and then finally bringing on Mara but taking Che off and sticking with the same failing formation... it just felt like he'd lost the plot. He was let down by the players on the day, but why didn't/don't they respond to him? 

This is Saints, so I wouldn't be surprised if we lose to Everton, but somehow win at Man City to save his skin. Last Friday was the pits though. 

 

[notnowcato]

19 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

Yes, if Ralph doesn't have the trust of the owners, he should have gone either in the summer or before the WC. Sacking him now would be a bit counter productive.

How many more shit performances does he get?

[Bad Wolf]

24 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

How many more shit performances does he get?

We've had more good performances than bad ones this season?

[Saint Garrett]

23 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

How many more shit performances does he get?

We've arguably only had 2 shit performances this season. Spurs (first game of the new season, didnt want to throw ABK in, a bit all over the place) and Villa (both teams were shit).

Leeds - again early season, and a bit all over the place but showed really good character to come back from 2-0 down.

On another day we take our chances, and beat both Man Utd and Wolves, and we got 2 great wins against Chelsea and Leicester. 

I'm not really sure you're argument is valid. For me, he got a clean slate in the summer when the club decided to keep him.

[Bad Wolf]

I still can't see a better manager out there who'd be realistically willing to come to us. Thomas Frank? And even that would be a huge risk on his part.

[Hayling Saint]

5 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

I still can't see a better manager out there who'd be realistically willing to come to us. Thomas Frank? And even that would be a huge risk on his part.

Agree with this.

[Saint Garrett]

9 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

I still can't see a better manager out there who'd be realistically willing to come to us. Thomas Frank? And even that would be a huge risk on his part.

I never understand this as an argument, as there are plenty of managers that are options.  I wouldn't expect the average fan to know everything about ever manager out there either. Look at Brighton, personally I've never heard of the bloke, and could be a great appt, but could also be a duff. who knows...

[egg]

1 hour ago, Bad Wolf said:

I still can't see a better manager out there who'd be realistically willing to come to us. Thomas Frank? And even that would be a huge risk on his part.

 

1 hour ago, Saint Garrett said:

I never understand this as an argument, as there are plenty of managers that are options.  I wouldn't expect the average fan to know everything about ever manager out there either. Look at Brighton, personally I've never heard of the bloke, and could be a great appt, but could also be a duff. who knows...

Yep. It makes no sense to me. A manager who is failing needs to go regardless of who's available to replace him. 

[CB Fry]

6 minutes ago, egg said:

 

Yep. It makes no sense to me. A manager who is failing needs to go regardless of who's available to replace him. 

People will need to remind of the groundswell of forum opinion all agreeing in 2018 that Mark Hughes must be replaced by Ralph Hasenhuttl immediately. Most people had barely heard of him or didn't think it was a possibility. It came out of nowhere. As did Koeman. As did Poch. As did Adkins. As did Puel, Sturrock, Strachan, Dave Jones, Hoddle, Pardew. This forum/fanbase has never predicted a manager successfully since maybe Alan Ball.

And on this forum people stop need to stop just hovering around the handful of managers that they have actually heard of and then pretending after that there is "nobody".

It's not going to be bloody Thomas Frank. It's not going to be Pochettino.

That doesn't mean there is "nobody".

[notnowcato]

1 hour ago, Saint Garrett said:

We've arguably only had 2 shit performances this season. Spurs (first game of the new season, didnt want to throw ABK in, a bit all over the place) and Villa (both teams were shit).

Leeds - again early season, and a bit all over the place but showed really good character to come back from 2-0 down. 

On another day we take our chances, and beat both Man Utd and Wolves, and we got 2 great wins against Chelsea and Leicester. 

I'm not really sure you're argument is valid. For me, he got a clean slate in the summer when the club decided to keep him.

Your argument has more holes than the Leicester defence eating Edam cheese.  First game of the season for Spurs too; didn't want to throw Ricarlison in.  Again early season for Leeds as well, what's the point here?  Villa were shit too... so?  If we're shit when playing P*mpey, is that ok?  Average performances v Mancs and Wolves, should've definitely got something out of those 2 games.

Good results != good performances.  Same can be said for bad results not equalling bad performances.  

From my point of view, we've not had a good performance so far this season.  We've had 2 piss poor performances and 5 average performances - where "average" would see us as a lower to mid-table team.  We were fortunate to meet the Chelsea side we did; they were double-piss poor that day. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

Early season performances can’t be viewed in context without also taking into account the second half of last season. The reason Davie Moyes is more secure in his job despite a poor start is the job he did last season. Ralphs early season performances mirror the back half of last season. The board clearly thought those performances weren’t acceptable, because the back room staff were binned. Have things got any better? Not so far…..And that’s why he’s  living on borrowed time. 

Edited 21 September, 2022 by Lord Duckhunter

[Turkish]

19 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

People will need to remind of the groundswell of forum opinion all agreeing in 2018 that Mark Hughes must be replaced by Ralph Hasenhuttl immediately. Most people had barely heard of him or didn't think it was a possibility. It came out of nowhere. As did Koeman. As did Poch. As did Adkins. As did Puel, Sturrock, Strachan, Dave Jones, Hoddle, Pardew. This forum/fanbase has never predicted a manager successfully since maybe Alan Ball.

And on this forum people stop need to stop just hovering around the handful of managers that they have actually heard of and then pretending after that there is "nobody".

It's not going to be bloody Thomas Frank. It's not going to be Pochettino.

That doesn't mean there is "nobody".

*MLG mode on* The orginal saintsforever forum started in 1999, Alan Ball was appointed in 1994, so it would have been impossible for the forum to have correctly predicted Alan Ball as manager *MLG mode off*

[Alanh]

11 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Your argument has more holes than the Leicester defence eating Edam cheese.  First game of the season for Spurs too; didn't want to throw Ricarlison in.  Again early season for Leeds as well, what's the point here?  Villa were shit too... so?  If we're shit when playing P*mpey, is that ok?  Average performances v Mancs and Wolves, should've definitely got something out of those 2 games.

Good results != good performances.  Same can be said for bad results not equalling bad performances.  

From my point of view, we've not had a good performance so far this season.  We've had 2 piss poor performances and 5 average performances - where "average" would see us as a lower to mid-table team.  We were fortunate to meet the Chelsea side we did; they were double-piss poor that day. 

A couple of things - Richarlison was suspended so couldn't play.  If you think ther performance against Chelsea was average then you have incredibly high, arguably unrealistic expectations.  We worked our socks off that night, took two of our limited chances, and kept them at arms length for the whole of the second half.  Way better than average in my book.

[notnowcato]

6 minutes ago, Alanh said:

A couple of things - Richarlison was suspended so couldn't play.  If you think ther performance against Chelsea was average then you have incredibly high, arguably unrealistic expectations.  We worked our socks off that night, took two of our limited chances, and kept them at arms length for the whole of the second half.  Way better than average in my book.

Working our socks off and defending hard, all be it against a clueless Chelsea attack, are givens in my book and do not make an average performance a good one.  

Edited 21 September, 2022 by notnowcato

[Bad Wolf]

2 hours ago, egg said:

 

Yep. It makes no sense to me. A manager who is failing needs to go regardless of who's available to replace him. 

Even when there's no one better? That's the ridiculous argument. I still can't see how Ralph is failing.

[Saint Matty 76]

1 hour ago, notnowcato said:

Working our socks off and defending hard, all be it against a clueless Chelsea attack, are givens in my book and do not make an average performance a good one.  

This is as bad a take as it gets.

[egg]

27 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

Even when there's no one better? That's the ridiculous argument. I still can't see how Ralph is failing.

Two issues.

One. You can't see Ralph failing. I and many others do (note the vote). 

Two. It's not 'ridiculous' to only remove someone when you have a replacement. What is ridiculous is to hang on to someone who you want to replace (and who probably knows he's being replaced) until you've lined up a replacement. 

Edited 21 September, 2022 by egg
To make it obvious to Bad Wolf

[Alanh]

1 hour ago, notnowcato said:

Working our socks off and defending hard, all be it against a clueless Chelsea attack, are givens in my book and do not make an average performance a good one.  

So using a really basic measure of a score out of 10, you would have given the team a 5 for their whole performance against Chelsea to signify how average you considered it?

[Bad Wolf]

13 minutes ago, egg said:

Two issues.

One. You can't see Ralph failing. I and many others do (note the vote. 

Two. It's not 'ridiculous' to only remove someone when you have a replacement. What is ridiculous is to hang on to someone who you want to replace, and who probably knows he's being replaced, when you've lined up a replacement. 

But we haven't lined up a replacement as far as I can see?

Where is Ralph failing? Comfortably kept up a Championship squad (nobody outside the Saints fanbase thought we'd go down last season. It's reflected in the odds at the time), loads of wins over the big 6 (something we hadn't done for about 3 years before he took over)

Who would your replace him with? Realistically...

[egg]

3 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

But we haven't lined up a replacement as far as I can see?

Where is Ralph failing? Comfortably kept up a Championship squad (nobody outside the Saints fanbase thought we'd go down last season. It's reflected in the odds at the time), loads of wins over the big 6 (something we hadn't done for about 3 years before he took over)

Who would your replace him with? Realistically...

How he's failing has been done to death. You're in the minority. He's shit and needs to go.

I have no idea who could replace him. Selecting a new man ain't my job. 

[Bad Wolf]

3 minutes ago, egg said:

How he's failing has been done to death. You're in the minority. He's shit and needs to go.

I have no idea who could replace him. Selecting a new man ain't my job. 

And yet you're refusing to provide any answers. Something that all the Ralph haters have in common. The logic is that we can take the bad results into account however we can't take the good results because that's always down to how bad the other team was.

[AlexLaw76]

2 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

And yet you're refusing to provide any answers. Something that all the Ralph haters have in common. The logic is that we can take the bad results into account however we can't take the good results because that's always down to how bad the other team was.

answers to what?

[Bad Wolf]

7 minutes ago, egg said:

How he's failing has been done to death. You're in the minority. He's shit and needs to go.

I have no idea who could replace him. Selecting a new man ain't my job. 

That whole "It's been done to death, I'm not going through it again" is right up there with "That was Hitler's logic" and "Well if you have to ask then you're part of the problem"

[Bad Wolf]

1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said:

answers to what?

How has Ralph spectacularly failed?

Who would come in?

If you want to replace someone, you line up their replacement before sacking the old person.

[aintforever]

2 hours ago, egg said:

 

Yep. It makes no sense to me. A manager who is failing needs to go regardless of who's available to replace him. 

Is 14th failing when you are blooding a load of youngsters?

This strategy of buying potential and developing them into top players is risky and will take time. Maybe we need to accept the fact that there will be some shit games whoever is manager.

When we have the youngest team in the league, and nowhere near the biggest budget - what position would you say is acceptable?

Edited 21 September, 2022 by aintforever

[egg]

1 minute ago, Bad Wolf said:

And yet you're refusing to provide any answers. Something that all the Ralph haters have in common. The logic is that we can take the bad results into account however we can't take the good results because that's always down to how bad the other team was.

You're losing me pal. I've said nothing about other teams being bad. You've made that up just like your daft claim that people are calling for Dyche. You're in a minority, but getting desperate doesn't aid your argument.

It's silly to suggest that we absolutely must stick with him until we line up a new man, and that no fan can call for his head until they can identify a replacement. 

[egg]

2 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

That whole "It's been done to death, I'm not going through it again" is right up there with "That was Hitler's logic" and "Well if you have to ask then you're part of the problem"

Blimey. I thought you were getting desperate before. Now you're just fecking idiotic.

[AlexLaw76]

2 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

How has Ralph spectacularly failed?

Who would come in?

If you want to replace someone, you line up their replacement before sacking the old person.

What does it matter who anyone here suggests who would come in?

[Bad Wolf]

2 minutes ago, egg said:

You're losing me pal. I've said nothing about other teams being bad. You've made that up just like your daft claim that people are calling for Dyche. You're in a minority, but getting desperate doesn't aid your argument.

It's silly to suggest that we absolutely must stick with him until we line up a new man, and that no fan can call for his head until they can identify a replacement. 

I find it baffling that anybody would want to sack a manager before lining up a replacement. What if you come to recruit and the only candidates are worse than the previous person??

[egg]

1 minute ago, aintforever said:

Is 14th failing when you are blooding a load of youngsters?

This strategy of buying potential and developing them int9 top players is risky and will take time. Maybe we need to accept the fact that there will be some shit games whoever is manager.

When we have the youngest team in the league, and nowhere near the biggest budget - what position would you say is acceptable?

We've been shit for well over a year. We've employed some shocking tactics. We've put out some batshit crazy teams. He rarely plays our best team. We're shit. He's shit. 

[Bad Wolf]

2 minutes ago, egg said:

Blimey. I thought you were getting desperate before. Now you're just fecking idiotic.

A hybrid of all of the argument types.

[egg]

Just now, Bad Wolf said:

I find it baffling that anybody would want to sack a manager before lining up a replacement. What if you come to recruit and the only candidates are worse than the previous person??

We agree to differ mate. If I have a failing employee, I say goodbye, I don't keep them around the place. If I have a girlfriend who does my head in, I don't keep her around the place until I get I nee one. Your logic is negative.

[egg]

3 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

A hybrid of all of the argument types.

Discussion with made up stuff isn't a hybrid of anything, it's just making shit up cos you're desperate. I'll leave it there pal, enjoy your evening.

[aintforever]

4 minutes ago, egg said:

We've been shit for well over a year. We've employed some shocking tactics. We've put out some batshit crazy teams. He rarely plays our best team. We're shit. He's shit. 

Yet we’ve never been in a relegation fight the whole time he has been here.

It’s great that our players are so good we can hire any old shit manger and still be safe every year.

[Whitey Grandad]

2 hours ago, notnowcato said:

Working our socks off and defending hard, all be it against a clueless Chelsea attack, are givens in my book and do not make an average performance a good one.  

We won; get over it.